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6th June 2017, 08:51 AM | #161 |
Penultimate Amazing
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The classical definition isn't the definition used by most liberals. Conservatives didn't do that. Liberals themselves did that, by not being classical liberals. That's why those people who are classical liberals have to append that adjective onto the term, because most liberals aren't.
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6th June 2017, 08:58 AM | #162 |
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By "they" do you mean FIRE, or "conservatives," which is what you said in your post?
Likewise, by "conservatives," are you including conservative-leaning media such as Fox News which very much did drive the demonisation of the word "liberal," or some amorphous definition of conservative that won't count? |
6th June 2017, 09:11 AM | #163 |
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Let's do FIRE, since 1) they're conservative, and 2) it's a much more tractable problem.
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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6th June 2017, 09:42 AM | #164 |
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Well, 1) according to the wikipedia, they aren't conservative, and 2) it's a different assertion entirely, unless FIRE is assumed to be representative of conservatives in general.
[ETA] And 3), FIRE has only been in existence since 1999. Pretty sudden to my mind.
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Good to get that sorted out. |
6th June 2017, 09:42 AM | #165 |
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Two more articles from Alt-Right sources
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https://www.thecollegefix.com/post/33027/ |
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6th June 2017, 09:48 AM | #166 |
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FIRE is nonpartisan
Hold on a minute; FIRE is nonpartisan. However, certain past and present executives of FIRE (Harvey Silverglate and Greg Lukianoff) are clearly liberal.
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6th June 2017, 10:05 AM | #167 |
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Nominally. Just like the ACLU is nominally nonpartisan.
But FIRE's support comes primarily from the right, just like the ACLU's support comes primarily from the left. Whenever I hear stories about FIRE's activism, it's always from conservative or libertarian sources. Note: I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with being partisan. |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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6th June 2017, 10:29 AM | #168 |
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The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
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6th June 2017, 10:30 AM | #169 |
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The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
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6th June 2017, 10:39 AM | #170 |
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6th June 2017, 11:10 AM | #171 |
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I think this is frankly because they deal with universities and most recently, it has been mostly the left that has been causing problems. Just like in this thread and on Jerry Coyne's blog linked earlier, a lot of lefties don't want to admit weakness to their side. They don't want to "give ammo to the right".
I also think the people who talk about FIRE have been unfairly branded as right-wing. edit: IIRC they have a list of events split by political side and it's a healthy mix of left and right but has been growing more to the left for a few years now |
6th June 2017, 11:23 AM | #172 |
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To my knowledge I've not called anyone names. My grandmother was black and my father was Jewish so I found calling the students spoiled brats with Oppression Olympic coaches very offensive in the same way that Trump is very offensive. The argument being made at the time was that these kids, regardless of what socioeconomic class they come from, they also come from a background of PTSD or cultural trauma if they are descended from slaves. It explains the knee jerk reaction in this situation, on their part, whether or not it was appropriate. As I said before, IMO no one should have been asked to separate themselves from others to discuss racism from the beginning. The only way this will get worked out is if people work together and see each other as just people. My personal experience of living in the PNW has been that the extreme left is no different than the extreme right, extreme being the key word here, it's just a different side of the same coin. |
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6th June 2017, 11:28 AM | #173 |
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The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
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6th June 2017, 11:39 AM | #174 |
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6th June 2017, 11:41 AM | #175 |
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6th June 2017, 11:47 AM | #176 |
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6th June 2017, 11:52 AM | #177 |
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The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
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6th June 2017, 12:04 PM | #178 |
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No, there is such a thing as cultural trauma, some define it as PTSD. The trauma changes the collective consciousness of the survivors and descendants of the persecuted group.
https://books.google.com/books?hl=en...amples&f=false |
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6th June 2017, 12:07 PM | #179 |
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I could not find that list on the FIRE website (If you could point me to it I would be interested.), but one of their more recent cases involved an activist group being censored by having their provocative display on sexual harassment removed and replaced with something more 'uplifting'.
It is an interesting case: https://www.thefire.org/university-o...s-free-speech/ |
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6th June 2017, 12:17 PM | #180 |
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Oppression Olympics is precisely what is in play here. These are people at the comparative height of privilege : living in the USofA and going to University. But if you can try to claim membership in a generally marginalized class (women, minorities, non-straight, etc.) then you can dispense with measuring your own life on its specifics. You're suddenly one of the Oppressed group, irrespective of how easy or hard your individual life has been. No, it didn't happen to me or my family, but it happened to someone who looks, prays, or has sex the way I do, and so their oppression is mine. Now excuse me from class for the rest of the year, but give me a passing grade anyway.
It's comical in a sharply misanthropic way to me as an outsider on the whole situation. To someone who was genuinely oppressed, someone who actually had to deal in person with racism or sexism or what have you, I'd think it'd be downright insulting. I can't begin to imagine how a combat vet who lived with IEDs and dead/maimed comrades would feel about people like Melody "Twitter gave me PTSD!" Hensley, to say nothing of the 'generational PTSD' claptrap being bandied about in this thread as an excuse for why a gaggle of spoiled brats can't be expected not to act like a gaggle of spoiled brats. |
6th June 2017, 02:16 PM | #181 |
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First, anybody who describes it as PTSD is totally wrong. It is no more PTSD than it is schizophrenia or Spanish flu. Secondly, 'cultural trauma' is a vague theory of behaviour recently suggested by a tiny group of sociologists. It has no broad acceptance in any field and it has no basis whatsoever in medical literature. There is no evidence for its existence and as such it is no more credible than telekinesis or reincarnation. It is bogus and ridiculous.
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6th June 2017, 02:54 PM | #182 |
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The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
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6th June 2017, 03:01 PM | #183 |
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Sooooo.... Do I get to have cultural PTSD because I'm a woman? I mean, my kind has been oppressed for a huge portion of human history, so that's got to leave a lasting mark, right? Plus half my family is black, so do I get to claim their slavery-based ancestral PTSD too? Damn, my niece has the triple threat here - she's half black, jewish, and female! That's the trifecta of inherited PTSD right there!
Plus scholarships. She's totes set for college. |
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The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
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6th June 2017, 03:44 PM | #184 |
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6th June 2017, 03:53 PM | #185 |
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The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
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6th June 2017, 03:54 PM | #186 |
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6th June 2017, 04:09 PM | #187 |
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6th June 2017, 04:26 PM | #188 |
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"Show me where on the doll cis-heteronormative white male Euro-colonial Patriarchy touched you ..."
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6th June 2017, 04:35 PM | #189 |
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Okay then. I feel offended, therefore you're being offensive? I am triggered, and you need to provide me a safe space?
My point, and that of several others, is that oppression isn't hereditary. Cultural PTSD because one's ancestors were enslaved is ridiculous. It also distracts from actual PTSD which is a real problem with a need for real attention. It's one thing to discuss persistent social disparities, institutional disenfranchisement, and the embedded effects of privilege. I'm with you 100% on those. But to characterize it as some sort of inherited disorder is harmful hyperbole that serves to distract from the problem by painting it in such an absurd fashion. |
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The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
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6th June 2017, 04:51 PM | #190 |
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6th June 2017, 05:17 PM | #191 |
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Me too, but there's an obvious selection bias there--if I see an article has been linked by Hot Air and Daily Kos, which am I going to check out? Hot Air, of course.
That said, I agree with those who say that the biggest threat to individual rights on college campuses today comes from the left, and it is not going to stop, because they are getting their way. What's amusing in this case is that they are going to war not over the underlying issue, but over tactics. You get the sense that the professor is certainly sympathetic about racism--he just objected to the tactic of having all white people excluded from the campus. |
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6th June 2017, 05:24 PM | #192 |
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My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog. |
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6th June 2017, 06:02 PM | #193 |
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Yes.
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6th June 2017, 06:16 PM | #194 |
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That's an odd definition in which any action, or inaction, can be offensive.
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For instance, in China most elderly people went through the cultural revolution. Friends of mine's parents were sent off to labour far from home (one told me her father's story of escaping and returning to Shanghai where he had to hide out for fear of being sent back). And yet that generation, in their forties now, hasn't inherited cultural trauma, and certainly the current generation of twenty somethings is living very happily without much thought about the past but instead focused on the future.
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6th June 2017, 06:41 PM | #195 |
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I found it. It was more specific than I thought and is a "disinvitation database"
https://www.thefire.org/resources/di...tion-database/ |
6th June 2017, 07:10 PM | #196 |
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That's because it's subjective - centered on the person experiencing the offense.
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Mostly though I'd point out that the kind of cultural damage we are talking about doesn't have a discrete beginning or end point. Further, generations don't really work that way - they are "networks" which extend across time.
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I feel the need to refrain what I said above - the disease is not defined by those who don't have it, but only those who do. This is the same for actual PTSD. "I was blown up in Afghanistan but don't have PTSD" doesn't work to challenge those who do have it. |
6th June 2017, 07:40 PM | #197 |
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6th June 2017, 08:13 PM | #198 |
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For those who may have missed it, it appears that some recent scientific research involving mice and rats and (((holocaust survivors))) seem to show that not only can there be epigenetic changes due to trauma, but similar changes and/or seemingly related changes can be observed in subsequent generations, too.
That is kind of an interesting thing to think about, then. Some of these minorities could possibly have been in some ways changed from the people they might have been been otherwise due to the harsh treatment of their ancestors. ...with there being, then, actual chemical changes that can have an effect on their emotional states and maybe personalities on top of whatever the cultural changes in attitudes there might be, also. "Fearful memories haunt mouse descendants" http://www.nature.com/news/fearful-m...ndants-1.14272 "Can trauma be passed to next generation through DNA?" http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/da...n-through-dna/ "Hereditary trauma: Inheritance of traumas and how they may be mediated" https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0413135953.htm "Epigenetic transmission of Holocaust trauma: can nightmares be inherited?" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24029109 |
6th June 2017, 08:22 PM | #199 |
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6th June 2017, 08:32 PM | #200 |
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I'm just a reporter! ...lol
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