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Tags donald trump , john bolton , lawsuits

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Old 17th June 2020, 07:30 AM   #41
Segnosaur
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
I can't imagine what kind of legal argument he could use for suppressing that book. The most he could do would be to sue for libel, but, as a public figure, he would have to prove malice.
Stubby Mcbonespurs would also probably have to prove that Bolton was lying... Given trump tends to lie so much himself, and doesn't like to keep records, that might be a bit difficult.


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Old 17th June 2020, 07:42 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
Conservative media went all-in on tribalism years ago. Anyone not for them is against them, anyone they hate the other side must secretly love and vice versa. Bolton's on the outs with bunker boy and is being vilified by the right, therefore he's now the darling of the left, so look how hypocritical these liberals are to embrace a man they once hated just because his testimony might damage Trump!

We saw the same thing here with the Meuller investigation. It's apparently impossible to like something that someone did at one point in time and not like something that they did at another point in time. You have to either like everything someone does forever or hate everything they do forever. If we supported the investigation, then we must have supported his Iraq stance; if we opposed his actions with Iraq, then we must oppose the investigation.
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Old 17th June 2020, 08:17 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I don't mean overall good guy, just temporary. It's sort of "the enemy of my enemy" relationship.


It's less "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" and more "We granted the Mob Enforcer immunity from prosecution so he would testify against the Mob Boss."

In a perfectly just world, both Bolton and Trump would take a hard and fast fall. In this less-than-perfect world, if we have to choose, the preference is that Trump takes the fall.
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Old 17th June 2020, 08:17 AM   #44
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Never mind.
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Old 17th June 2020, 08:21 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I would be very surprised if review copies weren't already out.
Stephen Colbert already has one - embargoed until Tuesday 22 June
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Old 17th June 2020, 09:13 AM   #46
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Bolton is a neocon. Trump is just a conman. A pox on both their houses.

I will say one thing positive about Trump: He has, for whatever reason, resisted the urge to go to war against North Korea and Iran, as I'm sure Bolton was urging him to do.
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Old 17th June 2020, 09:34 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I will say one thing positive about Trump: He has, for whatever reason, resisted the urge to go to war against North Korea and Iran, as I'm sure Bolton was urging him to do.
yet it didn't stop trump from:
- Backing out of the Nuclear control deal with Iran
- Killing an Iranian military leader
- Regularly threatening Iran

Yes, Trump hasn't ordered a military attack on Iran, but he's certainly set the stage for one.
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Old 17th June 2020, 10:08 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
Doublethink.

Conservative media went all-in on tribalism years ago. Anyone not for them is against them, anyone they hate the other side must secretly love and vice versa. Bolton's on the outs with bunker boy and is being vilified by the right, therefore he's now the darling of the left, so look how hypocritical these liberals are to embrace a man they once hated just because his testimony might damage Trump!
ROFL Bolton is hardly a darling of the left. I am interested to see what he has to say about Cheeto Benito.
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Old 17th June 2020, 10:11 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
ROFL Bolton is hardly a darling of the left. I am interested to see what he has to say about Cheeto Benito.
The book is clearly Bolton's bid for the GOP nomination for 2024: all these books are.
So I assume Bolton will laser-focus his criticism against Trump and his family, but will spare Republicans and bash Democrats as much as possible.

Fox will call it a "complete exoneration", because there will be a Bolton quote about it all being the Dems' fault.
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Old 17th June 2020, 10:35 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
No, it isn't. Bolton doesn't have the freedom of speech that you and I have. He voluntarily surrendered it in order to take the position in government that he did and gain access to the classified information that he worked with. He cannot freely write about that classified material. This is a long established legal principle. It isn't an outrage. Rather, Bolton was an idiot to think he could just ignore the review requirements that everyone else in his position has to abide by.



Perhaps, but Bolton doesn't have a legal leg to stand on here.
It certainly doesn't look like he ignored the review requirements. It may be that he didn't dot every i and cross every t in a way that I would want my clients to do, but it seems like he worked with NSC to achieve the review requirements.

See:

Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/10/u...lton-book.html

There's a little more to this than just a security review of the book. Bolton has been working with the former NSC to redact classified material from the book. They've just been yanking his chain.
With that in mind, how shaky do his legs look? Is he sliding down a steep damp slippery ramp on a hot sunny day?
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Old 17th June 2020, 11:55 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
The book is clearly Bolton's bid for the GOP nomination for 2024: all these books are.
So I assume Bolton will laser-focus his criticism against Trump and his family, but will spare Republicans and bash Democrats as much as possible.

Fox will call it a "complete exoneration", because there will be a Bolton quote about it all being the Dems' fault.
Bolton is bat **** crazy but not THAT bat **** crazy. He knows full well that he'll never be president. He wants to render justice on Trump for perceived as well as what I'm sure are real slights.
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Old 17th June 2020, 12:03 PM   #52
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Bolton's real problem is that there better be something freaking EPIC in this book to get what precious little time and attention the public has left to give. BLM and the plague are kind of sucking a lot of the O2 from other stories just now.
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Old 17th June 2020, 12:05 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Bolton is bat **** crazy but not THAT bat **** crazy. He knows full well that he'll never be president. He wants to render justice on Trump for perceived as well as what I'm sure are real slights.
I think it's a bit different than that. I think Bolton is a "true patriot". I put that in quotes because what I mean by that is that I think Bolton sincerely believes that the his own (i.e. Bolton's) policies are the best for America. I think he took the job so that he could push that pro-American agenda. He thought Trump was someone who needed some guidance, and he (Bolton) was the right man for the job, and that he could push his agenda if he had the president's ear.

What he actually saw in Trump once he was up close was someone who talked about Make America Great Again, but when it came to actions, it was all about Trump. Trump wouldn't push Bolton's version of pro-American policies. He saw a childish and half sane person, and he believed that Trump was genuinely dangerous to America. I think he wrote the book to expose Trump and to try to convince people that Trump is dangerous and ought to be thrown out. (Well, he probably also wanted to make some money, but doesn't everyone?)

So, it isn't so much justice or revenge. It's doing what Bolton thinks is best for America.

Maybe that gives Bolton more credit than he deserves, but that's the way I see it.
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Old 17th June 2020, 12:10 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
The book is clearly Bolton's bid for the GOP nomination for 2024: all these books are.
So I assume Bolton will laser-focus his criticism against Trump and his family, but will spare Republicans and bash Democrats as much as possible.

Fox will call it a "complete exoneration", because there will be a Bolton quote about it all being the Dems' fault.
Sorry. I think your analysis is off base. Bolton is hated by the left and now is persona non grata with Republicans outside of the neocons. He is 71 years old and would be 76 years old at the start of 2025 He's never run for public office.
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Old 17th June 2020, 12:15 PM   #55
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Best for America would have been to testify during the impeachment trial.
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Old 17th June 2020, 12:23 PM   #56
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500 clams for a bootleg copy? Ooooaw! How I'd love to purchase one or two friends in that warehouse!

Just one pallet. Just one.

After suborning a few hundred reporters, I could finish with a good shower. I think I'd need one.
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Old 17th June 2020, 12:48 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Bolton is bat **** crazy but not THAT bat **** crazy.
His mustache makes him look like one of those little dogs that look like they have that same mustache.
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Old 17th June 2020, 12:55 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
By suing, I think all he will accomplish is drawing a bit more attention to it. All the damage that could be done by it will be done anyway, and the juicy parts will all leak despite Trump's efforts.
Yep. Outside the US this is sometime referred to as "The Spycatcher Effect" (in the US, I think they call it "The Streisand Effect" for similar reasons).

Trump hasn't learned the lesson from former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, that is better to shut up and not bring attention to things you don't want people to notice, than take umbrage and make a big issue of it.

Spycatcher, Peter Wright's long and boring tome about the British Intelligence services would probably had gone mostly unnoticed had it not been for Thatcher bringing a lot of attention to it by trying to stop publication and have it banned. As a result, it sold a couple of million copies, and Wright died a millionaire.


Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Here is where I wish ISF hadn't turned into such an extreme echo chamber.
Rubbish. The "I" in this forum's name stands for "International". While those for and against Trump in the US might be a 60-40 affair, the same cannot be said of the rest of the world where the vast majority of us know what a complete idiot he is; where the for v against is more like 90-10.

IMO, this forum is far from an echo chamber, and its discussion fairly represents the views of its participants.
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Old 17th June 2020, 01:00 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
The book is clearly Bolton's bid for the GOP nomination for 2024: all these books are.

I think that his ambition was to become something like the Henry Kissinger of this century, the guy behind the president telling him how to fight the wars against the perceived enemies of the USA that he hoped to be able to persuade Trump to wage.
I guess the point of the book is to express his disappointment that he never succeed in persuading Trump to declare any of the wars he dreamed of.
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Old 17th June 2020, 01:04 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
I think that his ambition was to become something like the Henry Kissinger of this century, the guy behind the president telling him how to fight the wars against the perceived enemies of the USA that he hoped to be able to persuade Trump to wage.
I guess Trump's cowardice actually worked in our (world's) favor.

Oh, and I guess Putin said "nope".
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Old 17th June 2020, 01:10 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
I think that his ambition was to become something like the Henry Kissinger of this century, the guy behind the president telling him how to fight the wars against the perceived enemies of the USA that he hoped to be able to persuade Trump to wage.
I guess the point of the book is to express his disappointment that he never succeed in persuading Trump to declare any of the wars he dreamed of.
Agree. He wants to be Secretary of State.
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Old 17th June 2020, 01:25 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Yep. Outside the US this is sometime referred to as "The Spycatcher Effect" (in the US, I think they call it "The Streisand Effect" for similar reasons).

Trump hasn't learned the lesson from former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, that is better to shut up and not bring attention to things you don't want people to notice, than take umbrage and make a big issue of it.

Spycatcher, Peter Wright's long and boring tome about the British Intelligence services would probably had gone mostly unnoticed had it not been for Thatcher bringing a lot of attention to it by trying to stop publication and have it banned. As a result, it sold a couple of million copies, and Wright died a millionaire.

I donít suppose this would have happened either. I think I have a copy somewhere.
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Old 17th June 2020, 01:26 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
You can head to Quora for that. There are actual Trump supporters there whose clarity and candor will at the very least answer the question why a skeptics forum turned into an anti-trumpian echo chamber.

https://www.quora.com/unanswered/Wha...0sues%20bolton

Registration is required, but it's free to use.

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Why is he threatening to sue her? Because he's a psychotic douche with a ton of **** to hide.

What is he desperately trying to hide? Perhaps that his financial empire is built on Russian money and that he really is in Putin's pocket and takes his orders. Just speculation, but there might be stuff in this relationship that could get a treason conviction and an actual death penalty, and leave him permanently bankrupted. And to Bunker Boy, being permanently bankrupted is worse.
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Old 17th June 2020, 01:31 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I don't think it is a civil suit considering the DOJ filed it. They are seeking an injunction. The problem of course is a conflict between actual classified info and prior restraint.
I was wrong. They aren't seeking an injunction. The administration is simply suing. This is a bizarre legal strategy. The book has been printed. It has been shipped. Book tour and tv and radio appearances have been scheduled. The court won't be hearing the case until after the book is released to the public which is June 22nd.

I just read about the judge who has been assigned to the case. A judge who has a reputation of landing on the side of transparency.

It really seems as if Trump is trying to help Bolton sell the book.
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Old 17th June 2020, 01:34 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I was wrong. They aren't seeking an injunction. The administration is simply suing. This is a bizarre legal strategy. The book has been printed. It has been shipped. Book tour and tv and radio appearances have been scheduled. The court won't be hearing the case until after the book is released to the public which is June 22nd.

I just read about the judge who has been assigned to the case. A judge who has a reputation of landing on the side of transparency.

It really seems as if Trump is trying to help Bolton sell the book.
Trump is just in full panic mode. He's like as if the captain of the Titanic was running around on deck swigging liberally from a bottle of rum and shooting at the passengers and blaming them.
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Old 17th June 2020, 01:37 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It really seems as if Trump is trying to help Bolton sell the book.


You know what this means, right?


Trump is getting a cut.

You read it here first!
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Old 17th June 2020, 01:38 PM   #67
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It is not bizarre. Trump is simply just as competent in stopping book that he does not like as in fighting with COVID-19. Starting from very delayed response, when it is already too late.
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Old 17th June 2020, 01:39 PM   #68
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Juicy tidbits are coming out.

He leaned on China for re-election help. Supposedly every foreign policy decision was based on re-election calculations.
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Old 17th June 2020, 01:39 PM   #69
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So far, the few details that have trickled out will not prove that damning for Trump.

He asked China to purchase American farm products to help American farmers. That this was driven by his desire to win re-election will not matter to most.

Boltons claim that Trump called for the execution of journalists will be brushed off as a lie, while inwardly Trump supporters will cheer.
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Old 17th June 2020, 01:42 PM   #70
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Bolton has made some absolutely jaw dropping allegations in his book.

1. Trump tried to get Xi to help him win re-election.
2. Obstruction of justice is a 'way of life' for Trump.
3. Trump knew of, and approved of, Xi setting up concentration camps for the Muslim
Uyghers.
4. Xi told Trump he wanted to work with him for another six years and that the two term
limit was wrong. Trump nodded in agreement.
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Old 17th June 2020, 01:44 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
His mustache makes him look like one of those little dogs that look like they have that same mustache.
Sadly, for the past 16 years, I have seen it the other way around.

Those poor little dogs have a Bolton mustache.

PS: Hitler ruined a perfectly good 'stache too.
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Old 17th June 2020, 01:45 PM   #72
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The things that have come out so far will certainly not be good for Trump, but in my opinion his handling of the pandemic and his reactions to the recent protests will be, if anything, the nail in his re-election coffin.

The recent events are demonstrably true for all to see. Anything Bolton alleges will enjoy zero support from anyone else. His word vs Trumps word.

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Old 17th June 2020, 01:48 PM   #73
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by dmaker View Post
The things that have come out so far will certainly not be good for Trump, but in my opinion his handling of the pandemic and his reactions to the recent protests will be, if anything, the nail in his re-election coffin.

The recent events are demonstrably true for all to see. Anything Bolton alleges will enjoy zero to no support from anyone else. His word vs Trumps word.
For his base, I agree. For independents, they'll matter. For reluctant 2016 Trump voters, they'll matter.
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Old 17th June 2020, 01:57 PM   #74
TragicMonkey
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Originally Posted by dmaker View Post
Anything Bolton alleges will enjoy zero support from anyone else. His word vs Trumps word.
Yeah, that would be a safe defense for literally anybody other than Trump. Trump is not capable of sitting in silence, refusing to engage, and rising above what someone says about him. Trump is going to respond. Trump is going to open his fat mouth and, like every time Trump opens his fat mouth, something stupid and self-damaging is going to drop out of it. He cannot help himself.
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Old 17th June 2020, 01:59 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
His mustache makes him look like one of those little dogs that look like they have that same mustache.
Sir Didymus.

Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Bolton has made some absolutely jaw dropping allegations in his book.

1. Trump tried to get Xi to help him win re-election.
2. Obstruction of justice is a 'way of life' for Trump.
3. Trump knew of, and approved of, Xi setting up concentration camps for the Muslim
Uyghers.
4. Xi told Trump he wanted to work with him for another six years and that the two term
limit was wrong. Trump nodded in agreement.
This is what I was talking about potentially getting so pissed off about before. If any of that is true, it should have come out in the Impeachment hearing. **** Bolton for not appearing.

If everything is false, **** Bolton for being as much a liar as The PDJT.
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Old 17th June 2020, 02:02 PM   #76
dmaker
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I wonder if we are going to hear a repeat of the impeachment defense where anything the President does that he believes to be good for the country, including re-election, is fine and lawful.
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Old 17th June 2020, 02:04 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by dmaker View Post
I wonder if we are going to hear a repeat of the impeachment defense where anything the President does that he believes to be good for the country, including re-election, is fine and lawful.
Which is the correct argument.
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Old 17th June 2020, 02:05 PM   #78
dmaker
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Bolton will take a credibility hit by not testifying and withholding this information until now where he can profit from book sales.

It will still be fun to watch PDJT suffer while trying to fend off the allegations.
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Old 17th June 2020, 02:32 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by dmaker View Post
I wonder if we are going to hear a repeat of the impeachment defense where anything the President does that he believes to be good for the country, including re-election, is fine and lawful.
That was the first thing that jumped to my mind
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Old 17th June 2020, 02:37 PM   #80
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Sir Didymus.



This is what I was talking about potentially getting so pissed off about before. If any of that is true, it should have come out in the Impeachment hearing. **** Bolton for not appearing.

If everything is false, **** Bolton for being as much a liar as The PDJT.
IIRC, Bolton did offer to appear before the Senate but the GOP Senators (except Collins? Murkowsky? and Romney) voted down having 'new' testimony presented.
Of course, Bolton may have known/suspected that would happen so offering to appear could have been a calculated risk on his part to look good.
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