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Tags donald trump , john bolton , lawsuits

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Old 22nd June 2020, 04:17 AM   #241
The Great Zaganza
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Some things coming out of the Bolton Book lawsuit:

It seems that some of the "classified material" in the book was classified after Bolton had been given the all-clear by the reviewer.
It is possible that the lawsuit was made so late because until the re-classification there would have been no argument.

If Bolton and his Publisher have the stamina, they might well prevail even on the Royalties issue.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 04:27 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
I can't be bothered to follow this up with any research on my part but did he actually have his own money invested in any of these ventures or did he just lend his name for a hefty fee and walk away with a pile of cash?
Where do you think his private jet came from? A 757 cost a lot back in the day. When his airline went bankrupt a 757 magically became his own.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 04:34 AM   #243
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Now Trump's niece is writing a book. This one will be about the family and just how screwed up they all really are. Mary Trump, daughter of deceased Fred Trump is set to publish "Too Much and Never Enough". Mary Trump says that the book will be an "Authoritative portrait of Donald Trump and the toxic family that made him." Mary Trump also revealed she was the primary source for the 2018 story on Trump's tax evasion. The book is going to be released on 28 July.

When the family settled lawsuits over the disposition of Fred Trump senior's estate, Trump says she signed an NDA and is not allowed to publish the book. I gather she sees it differently.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 06:43 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
Don't sell him short - he's had six bankruptcies:

Trump Taj Mahal Associates, Atlantic City casino — 1991
Trump Castle Hotel & Casino, Atlantic City casino — 1992
Trump Plaza Associates, Atlantic City casino — 1992
Plaza Operating Partners, Manhattan hotel — 1992
Trump Casino Holdings, Atlantic City casinos — 2004
Trump Entertainment Resorts, Atlantic City casinos — 2009
He was probably paying himself a big salary and/or licencing fees and got a huge tax credit from the bankruptcy itself. It’s entirely possible he personally still made money on these and it was just banks and other investors that lost.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 07:19 AM   #245
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Sorry if this was mentioned and I just missed it, but:

TRUMP V BOLTON: Trying to Stop The Room Where It Happened From Happening By U.S. Dept. of Justice
Quote:
Own a piece of American History in the making!

READ why President Donald Trump wants the highly anticipated White House memoir of former National Security Advisor John Bolton for YOURSELF!

Inside you’ll find out why the US DOJ, and especially Donald Trump want to prevent this book from being published.

They say it contains a plethora of classified information, LIKE WHAT?
What am I looking at? Is this a joke? I can't even tell anymore.

Can one even publish a book under another organization's name?
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Last edited by Upchurch; 22nd June 2020 at 07:20 AM.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 08:26 AM   #246
Craig4
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Sorry if this was mentioned and I just missed it, but:

TRUMP V BOLTON: Trying to Stop The Room Where It Happened From Happening By U.S. Dept. of Justice

What am I looking at? Is this a joke? I can't even tell anymore.

Can one even publish a book under another organization's name?
It looks like someone got a hold of the DOJ court filing and is selling a digital copy of it. It's public record so anyone who wants a copy can get one.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 08:57 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
It looks like someone got a hold of the DOJ court filing and is selling a digital copy of it. It's public record so anyone who wants a copy can get one.
Exactly. It's all on PACER. Public domain.
The breathless description on the Amazon page is pretty hilarious.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 09:28 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Some things coming out of the Bolton Book lawsuit:

It seems that some of the "classified material" in the book was classified after Bolton had been given the all-clear by the reviewer.
Here is a reference for that particular claim:

From; The Week
...the DOJ admitted in a Friday filing, parts of Bolton's book weren't even classified until the government got its first look at it... The DOJ's main argument for suppressing the publication and distribution of The Room Where It Happened is that it contains classified information, and that Bolton didn't submit it for a proper review. But several officials did get a look at it — including one who read the book before parts of it ended up classified, the DOJ said Friday during a hearing with Bolton's legal team and the judge overseeing their case.

Frankly, I think the judge really dropped the ball here. He made the right decision (that publication should be allowed), but seemed to do so for the wrong reasons.

Instead of claiming 'the book is already out there', the reasons he should have used were:
- The book had already been reviewed and cleared, before the review process was re-opened
- As mentioned above, materials were changed to classified only after Bolton submitted his work for review
- The individual doing the 'second' review didn't actually receive proper training before doing the review (not to mention being a Trump toady)
- The government was in violation of the law with the review process

From: Law and Crime
The Department of Justice admitted on Friday that a Trump loyalist (Michael Ellis) who reviewed John Bolton’s book for classified information conducted that review before he received required annual training on the process for doing so.

From: The Hill
the nondisclosure agreement Bolton was required to sign...set a strict time limit for the government to conduct its review. The agreement only permitted the government a “reasonable opportunity to determine” if a book contained classified information, that under the rules cannot “exceed 30 working days from date of receipt.”... if the government followed the law the book should have been reviewed and cleared well before the Senate was asked to vote on subpoenaing Bolton to testify at president’s impeachment trial. Instead, the review of the book was delayed until long after the impeachment proceedings ended.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 10:53 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Every analysis I have seen so far is contrary to this. Maybe Ziggurat has alternative facts he can point us to.
And perhaps at the same time explain why it's simultaneously lies and classified?
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Old 22nd June 2020, 10:56 AM   #250
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Two scabby rats fighting in a sack on the way to being thrown in the river.
Next Lawsuit: Scabby Rats vs Norman Alexander. Defamation
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Old 22nd June 2020, 11:32 AM   #251
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Some surprising information contained in the book. Even what's on this one page is quite shocking:

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Old 22nd June 2020, 11:36 AM   #252
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Some surprising information contained in the book. Even what's on this one page is quite shocking:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...0f8a024aad.png
best prose from Bolton so far.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 11:51 AM   #253
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I appreciate the effort, but a week or two ago a guy Rickrolled Rick Astley. That's the pinnacle right there, and any attempt to Rickroll anybody else from now on can only ever be a pale shadow.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 11:54 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I appreciate the effort, but a week or two ago a guy Rickrolled Rick Astley. That's the pinnacle right there, and any attempt to Rickroll anybody else from now on can only ever be a pale shadow.
Oh, I'm sure I can never match that, but I'm still never gonna give it up. That would let you down.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 11:56 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I appreciate the effort, but a week or two ago a guy Rickrolled Rick Astley. That's the pinnacle right there, and any attempt to Rickroll anybody else from now on can only ever be a pale shadow.

I don't know. It was pretty impressive in 2008 when Rick Astley himself Rickrolled everyone watching the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 06:29 PM   #256
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Bolton is denying claims published in The Telegraph last Sunday that he will be voting for Biden. He does confirm that he will not be voting for Trump, but says he'll be writing in a conservative Republican's name.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 06:53 PM   #257
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Bolton's book has already been uploaded to at least one pirate site.

I thought these articles on Trump were rather illuminating.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...red-trump.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/02/u...red-trump.html

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Old 22nd June 2020, 07:52 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Bolton is denying claims published in The Telegraph last Sunday that he will be voting for Biden. He does confirm that he will not be voting for Trump, but says he'll be writing in a conservative Republican's name.
I think that says a lot about Bolton.

The man who was SO concerned about how bad Trump's actions were... the man who said Trump should be a 'one term president', is unwilling to vote for Biden, the one action that would be most useful in removing Trump from power. (Not that that one vote would likely make a difference... but it shows yet another failure on his part to respond to corruption.)
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Old 22nd June 2020, 08:23 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I think that says a lot about Bolton.

The man who was SO concerned about how bad Trump's actions were... the man who said Trump should be a 'one term president', is unwilling to vote for Biden, the one action that would be most useful in removing Trump from power. (Not that that one vote would likely make a difference... but it shows yet another failure on his part to respond to corruption.)
Biden could try doing something to earn that vote.

Bolton and I are similar in that you are probably doing something wrong if we want to vote for you...for different reasons.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 08:47 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Biden could try doing something to earn that vote.
If Bolton doesn't think Biden is a valid selection now, then he doesn't really think Trump's corruption is that bad.

Full stop. End of story.

There is no chance that that "the other conservative" Bolton will write in will win the election. The choice is between Biden and Trump. If you don't take every effort to remove Trump (even if it means voting for a democrat) then you are minimizing Trump's corruption.

You either think "A person as corrupt as Trump should not be in power", or you think "Trump's behavior is acceptable because of policy reasons".
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Old 22nd June 2020, 08:52 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
If Bolton doesn't think Biden is a valid selection now, then he doesn't really think Trump's corruption is that bad.

Full stop. End of story.

There is no chance that that "the other conservative" Bolton will write in will win the election. The choice is between Biden and Trump. If you don't take every effort to remove Trump (even if it means voting for a democrat) then you are minimizing Trump's corruption.

You either think "A person as corrupt as Trump should not be in power", or you think "Trump's behavior is acceptable because of policy reasons".
Reminds me of when Sideshow Bob ran for mayor. Krusy the Klown stood in the polling booth, recalling how Bob framed him for armed robbery and tried to kill him several times. "But I'm aching for that upper class tax cut!" Krusty mused, and voted for Bob.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 09:00 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I think that says a lot about Bolton.

The man who was SO concerned about how bad Trump's actions were... the man who said Trump should be a 'one term president', is unwilling to vote for Biden, the one action that would be most useful in removing Trump from power. (Not that that one vote would likely make a difference... but it shows yet another failure on his part to respond to corruption.)
Bolton is smarter than Trump. But just as much of an unpatriotic POS.

Lawrence O'Donnell eloquently rips into both.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 22nd June 2020, 09:07 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
If Bolton doesn't think Biden is a valid selection now, then he doesn't really think Trump's corruption is that bad.

Full stop. End of story.

There is no chance that that "the other conservative" Bolton will write in will win the election. The choice is between Biden and Trump. If you don't take every effort to remove Trump (even if it means voting for a democrat) then you are minimizing Trump's corruption.

You either think "A person as corrupt as Trump should not be in power", or you think "Trump's behavior is acceptable because of policy reasons".
If neither major candidate is acceptable, then it is not acceptable to vote for some "least objectionable" candidate. If there is a minimum threshold of quality, and none meet it, it doesn't matter how much worse one is.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 09:15 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
If neither major candidate is acceptable, then it is not acceptable to vote for some "least objectionable" candidate. If there is a minimum threshold of quality, and none meet it, it doesn't matter how much worse one is.
I don't agree with your premise.

But yes it very much does.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 09:17 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Yes it does.
Absolutely disagree. I view that as an incredibly immoral act.

But I'm a deontologist and you are a consequentialist. So we don't even agree on how to measure goodness such that we can debate what achieves that.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 09:20 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
If neither major candidate is acceptable, then it is not acceptable to vote for some "least objectionable" candidate.
Once again... if a person does not find Biden an acceptable alternative as someone to vote for in a system which is largely a 2 party system, then you are implying that Trump's corruption is not serious enough to warrant removal from office.

End of story. Fat lady has sung. Smoke 'em if you got em.

Quote:
If there is a minimum threshold of quality, and none meet it, it doesn't matter how much worse one is.
Biden has never been involved in any significant scandal in all his time in politics.

If that is not enough for Bolton to vote for him, then he is stating that 'extreme corruption is acceptable if you have the right policies'.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 09:24 PM   #267
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ETA: thought of a different argument... different reply coming shortly.

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Old 22nd June 2020, 09:39 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Absolutely disagree. I view that as an incredibly immoral act.

But I'm a deontologist and you are a consequentialist. So we don't even agree on how to measure goodness such that we can debate what achieves that.
You're right Bob. I care about the consequences. I care about the country and the people in my country. There are things I can't stand about Biden. But I know he cares about the country. He is also qualified. I will always take better. I never expect perfection.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 09:43 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Once again... if a person does not find Biden an acceptable alternative as someone to vote for in a system which is largely a 2 party system, then you are implying that Trump's corruption is not serious enough to warrant removal from office.

End of story. Fat lady has sung. Smoke 'em if you got em.


Biden has never been involved in any significant scandal in all his time in politics.

If that is not enough for Bolton to vote for him, then he is stating that 'extreme corruption is acceptable if you have the right policies'.
From Bolton's perspective, between abortion and communist genocide, he likely views liberalism as an atrocity. I see that view from neocons. In that case, Trump's maladministration and appeasement of some communists IS the lesser of two evils.

You may think he is wrong, but arguing lesser of two evils is an argument for many to vote for Trump. Corruption is relatively minor next to a March to communism (People like Bolton, not me. Communists surprisingly don't offend me).
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Old 22nd June 2020, 09:46 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
You're right Bob. I care about the consequences. I care about the country and the people in my country. There are things I can't stand about Biden. But I know he cares about the country. He is also qualified. I will always take better. I never expect perfection.
He meets what you think are the minimum standard for competence. This is a discussion about having to vote for lesser of two evils.

When have you voted for a candidate that was going to actively further injure the people you care about, but not as badly as the other person? That also did not meet your minimum standard for competent?

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Old 22nd June 2020, 09:52 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
He meets what you think are the minimum standard for competence. This is a discussion about having to vote for lesser of two evils.

When have you voted for a candidate that was going to actively further injure the people you care about, but not as badly as the other person?
Again, I have NO IDEA what you're saying. I see Trump destroying this country. I have despised some Presidents in my life and Trump is the only one I think endangers the Republic. I don't think the country can survive another term of Trump.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 09:52 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
From Bolton's perspective, between abortion and communist genocide, he likely views liberalism as an atrocity. I see that view from neocons.
Uh, no. Abortion was never really an issue for neocons.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 09:56 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Again, I have NO IDEA what you're saying. I see Trump destroying this country. I have despised some Presidents in my life and Trump is the only one I think endangers the Republic. I don't think the country can survive another term of Trump.
You also think Biden will do better than "not survive to a lesser degree." You are not in the camp of having to make a choice between two unacceptable outcomes.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 09:57 PM   #274
smartcooky
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Absolutely disagree. I view that as an incredibly immoral act.
Rubbish.

A vote against a candidate that you do not like is a perfectly valid and moral choice. The Lincoln Project, a conservative action group made up of conservatives and former Republicans, advocates exactly this...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...t-be-defeated/

"We’ve never backed a Democrat for president. But Trump must be defeated."

"Today, the United States is beset with a president who was unprepared for the burden of the presidency and who has made plain his deficits in leadership, management, intelligence and morality.

"When we founded the Lincoln Project, we did so with a clear mission: to defeat President Trump in November. Publicly supporting a Democratic nominee for president is a first for all of us. We are in extraordinary times, and we have chosen to put country over party — and former vice president Joe Biden is the candidate who we believe will do the same."


Not voting at all is a gutless choice, and an abrogation of your responsibility as a citizen of your country.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 09:57 PM   #275
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Uh, no. Abortion was never really an issue for neocons.
Sure. I know Bolton is anti abortion. Goldwater conservative might be better, but whatever label is best I don't care.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 09:59 PM   #276
smartcooky
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Uh, no. Abortion was never really an issue for neocons.
Agree; its really only an issue they pretend to take seriously to keep pro-lifers and religious nutcases onside.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 10:01 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
You also think Biden will do better than "not survive to a lesser degree." You are not in the camp of having to make a choice between two unacceptable outcomes.
I don't buy for second that Bolton actually sees Biden as unacceptable. Bolton is playing a game for other Republicans. He wants his cake and eat it too,
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Old 22nd June 2020, 10:02 PM   #278
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post

Not voting at all is a gutless choice, and an abrogation of your responsibility as a citizen of your country.
I'm going to ignore my general disgust with the thought that citizenship is valuable, has meaning, or incurs any responsibility.


Does your position mean that people like Bolton, who may feel kleptocracy is less bad than the tyranny of Liberalism,have an obligation to vote for Trump? ETA: even if you knew advocating your principle would cost you the election?

Because it is real easy to quote people that agree your candidate is the lesser of two evils.

Last edited by BobTheCoward; 22nd June 2020 at 10:07 PM.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 10:05 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I don't buy for second that Bolton actually sees Biden as unacceptable. Bolton is playing a game for other Republicans. He wants his cake and eat it too,
I'm asking you when have YOU voted for a true lesser of two evils? Someone that you would actually label as evil.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 10:12 PM   #280
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I don't buy for second that Bolton actually sees Biden as unacceptable. Bolton is playing a game for other Republicans. He wants his cake and eat it too,
Enh. He probably is lying. He is a known blowhard. But there isn't really much of an interesting discussion around principles when there concerned party doesn't have any. So I don't worry too much about it.
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