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Old 31st August 2020, 09:30 AM   #1
Safe-Keeper
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How can a foreigner best oppose the Trump regime?

So like so many other people around the world, I'm deeply concerned about everything the US is going through - polarisation, science denial, the number of people who seem happy to live in a post-fact world, covid mismanagement, and of course Orange FŁhrer himself. Obviously if I was in the USA, I would be volunteering actively, but that's kinda hard from across the pond, so I'm looking into ways to make that tiny, tiny difference.

There was a thread recently about the best ways to donate money so as to maximize impact, this is sort of the same deal. How can we foreign nationals who are terrified of the course the US has set for itself best a. help oppose Trump and b. help Team Biden win the election?

I first wanted to make donations, but it seems that even the Lincoln Project does not allow donations from outside the USA. I could donate money to someone in the US and have them pass them on as donations to the Democratic Party or whatever, but I don't know if I trust anyone I know there enough.

I've landed on subscribing to US newspapers (again, tiny, tiny impact, but I don't know how much I can do as one person without too big a network or income), so I've paid $60 for a one-year subscription to Washington Post and might also decide to subscribe to a second - not sure which one. I consider the post-fact, hyper-polarized nature of US discourse the biggest long-term danger to the US at the moment, and serious journalists are our best hope against that, IMHO.

So... any other way to make an impact?

Note that I'm excluding all kinds of slacktivism and Keyboard Warrior contributions, like "I'm debating Trump on Twitter every day", or "i changed my profile picture to a pro-Biden emblem". Please don't bring them up, I don't want the thread derailed.
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Old 31st August 2020, 09:34 AM   #2
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Serious, heartfelt answer: All politics is local. The best way to oppose politics in some remote location is to (a) assume you don't actually have a clear picture of what's going on over there, (b) realize there's not much you can do about it anyway, and (c) do what you can where it will have the most impact: in your local community.
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Old 31st August 2020, 10:59 AM   #3
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Old 31st August 2020, 11:31 AM   #4
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Large scale information warfare is probably the next best thing to funding.
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Old 31st August 2020, 11:32 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Serious, heartfelt answer: All politics is local. The best way to oppose politics in some remote location is to (a) assume you don't actually have a clear picture of what's going on over there, (b) realize there's not much you can do about it anyway, and (c) do what you can where it will have the most impact: in your local community.
I have to agree with Theprestige on this, I don't think there's much that us foreigners can or should do to directly influence American elections.

If you still want to do something, you could resurrect The Guardian's cringetastic 2004 idea of writing patronising letters to individual Americans telling them how to vote.

Although given how Americans reacted to that, maybe think carefully before doing it.
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Old 31st August 2020, 12:01 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Serious, heartfelt answer: All politics is local. The best way to oppose politics in some remote location is to (a) assume you don't actually have a clear picture of what's going on over there, (b) realize there's not much you can do about it anyway, and (c) do what you can where it will have the most impact: in your local community.
Agreed. Any attempt at involvement will come across badly, no matter how well-intentioned. Those who agree with your politics will still find it patronizing, those who disagree with your politics will find it outrageous busybodying. It'd be like interjecting yourself into a marital dispute.
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Old 31st August 2020, 12:01 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Large scale information warfare is probably the next best thing to funding.
Large scale information warfare requires a lot of funding. I also question the premise that it's a good thing in this scenario. Can you tell us more about what you have in mind?
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Old 31st August 2020, 12:42 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Serious, heartfelt answer: All politics is local.
No its not.

A foreigner can't necessarily vote in an American election, but its an interconnected world, and what happens in the U.S. can have a global impact. A United States financial meltdown can lead to a global recession. Environmental changes impact more than just the local/national government. A failure to control covid-19 means that the U.S. could serve as a reservoir for the disease for the foreseeable future.

A foreigner may not be able to vote in a U.S. election but they are still impacted by it. A desire to prevent them from selecting an incompetent leader is understandable.
Quote:
The best way to oppose politics in some remote location is to (a) assume you don't actually have a clear picture of what's going on over there,
We aren't talking about some tiny country like Ubeki-beki-beki-beki-stan-stan. The U.S. generates a substantial amount of media interest across the globe. Anyone can get a "clear picture of what's going on" even if they don't live within the borders.

I rather suspect that even the non-American members of a forum like International Skeptics Forum probably have a better idea of what's going on than your average MAGAchud.

Quote:
(b) realize there's not much you can do about it anyway
Which was the point of the thread... someone was asking if there WAS a way they could.

Overall, I think they made the best decision... supporting journalism which can have a role in investigating possible scandals.
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Old 31st August 2020, 01:00 PM   #9
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I get the issue with patronising. Honestly, were I American I'd be really frustrated with all the foreigners with opinions on US politics. Helping out doesn't need to be condescending or patronizing, though, like the satirical "write a letter to the dumb Americans informing them they should vote" example. I don't think WP gets too annoyed that I subscribed to their newspaper, for example.

And no, of course I don't have an infinite understanding of US politics. As was said, though, it's not exactly municipal politics in Zambia or New Zealand, and I tend to follow US national politics closely, though less so during the Obama administration as, well, the country was a functional government then . I've also lived in the States for three years, for whatever difference that makes.
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Old 31st August 2020, 01:30 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
No its not.

A foreigner can't necessarily vote in an American election, but its an interconnected world, and what happens in the U.S. can have a global impact. A United States financial meltdown can lead to a global recession. Environmental changes impact more than just the local/national government. A failure to control covid-19 means that the U.S. could serve as a reservoir for the disease for the foreseeable future.

A foreigner may not be able to vote in a U.S. election but they are still impacted by it. A desire to prevent them from selecting an incompetent leader is understandable.

We aren't talking about some tiny country like Ubeki-beki-beki-beki-stan-stan. The U.S. generates a substantial amount of media interest across the globe. Anyone can get a "clear picture of what's going on" even if they don't live within the borders.

I rather suspect that even the non-American members of a forum like International Skeptics Forum probably have a better idea of what's going on than your average MAGAchud.


Which was the point of the thread... someone was asking if there WAS a way they could.

Overall, I think they made the best decision... supporting journalism which can have a role in investigating possible scandals.
Fair enough. Your view of the media's reliability and accuracy is very different from mine, which accounts for most of the difference between our positions.
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Old 31st August 2020, 01:38 PM   #11
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Let's just say that unless you guys elect a government that takes climate change seriously, we're all ******, thus we all have an interest in the coming election. I don't have terribly high hopes for Biden, but at the very least, he acknowledges that there is a huge catastrophe looming over the horizon.

From the rest of the world, to the US voters: You have one last chance. Don't **** it up.
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Old 31st August 2020, 01:39 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
I get the issue with patronising. Honestly, were I American I'd be really frustrated with all the foreigners with opinions on US politics. Helping out doesn't need to be condescending or patronizing, though, like the satirical "write a letter to the dumb Americans informing them they should vote" example. I don't think WP gets too annoyed that I subscribed to their newspaper, for example.

And no, of course I don't have an infinite understanding of US politics. As was said, though, it's not exactly municipal politics in Zambia or New Zealand, and I tend to follow US national politics closely, though less so during the Obama administration as, well, the country was a functional government then . I've also lived in the States for three years, for whatever difference that makes.
The country is a functional government now, too. If you think the Washington Post is telling you that the government is dysfunctional, and you think that represents accurate reporting, that kind of reinforces my point.

And I don't think the size of the country really matters, in terms of how well you understand what's really going on from the other side of the world.

And I lived in Brazil for three years, but I wouldn't claim any standing to take a hand in their politics or governance.
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Old 31st August 2020, 02:43 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
I get the issue with patronising. Honestly, were I American I'd be really frustrated with all the foreigners with opinions on US politics. Helping out doesn't need to be condescending or patronizing, though
The way to lose weight is to diet and exercise, right?

Now go up to the very next fat person you see and tell them that.

Let us know how they react: positively, or negatively?

My prediction:
They'll get mad because they already knew that. Everyone knows that. Pointing it out is not only rubbing in the situation but adding to it that you think they're very stupid.
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Old 31st August 2020, 02:51 PM   #14
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Another way to oppose the regime is to find some individual who's suffering from the policies of the regime, and send them support directly. You're generally barred from contributing to politicians and political advocacy, but there's a lot more 'regular people' out there who need aid and comfort.

Find an NGO or international aid organization that's working to help refugees who face deportation, or to support families separated or oppressed by the regime's immigration policies. I bet your contributions would be greatly appreciated, and much more impactful than a WaPo subscription.

If you favor taking more of a front-line, direct-action stand against evil, I'm pretty sure BLM and antifa* have some contribution channels that are open to you.
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Old 31st August 2020, 03:06 PM   #15
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sneaky Norwegians... I'm onto you.

If democrats win, then halt fracking or shut pipelines, refineries, etc... then Norway can make much more in crowns as one of the largest oil exporters in the world!
muahhahahahah
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Old 31st August 2020, 03:54 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Fair enough. Your view of the media's reliability and accuracy is very different from mine, which accounts for most of the difference between our positions.
You have to realize that he may be coming from the typically ignorant and self-delusional Canadian point of view that someone really cares what Canadians think or do.
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Old 31st August 2020, 04:51 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Another way to oppose the regime is to find some individual who's suffering from the policies of the regime, and send them support directly. You're generally barred from contributing to politicians and political advocacy, but there's a lot more 'regular people' out there who need aid and comfort.

Find an NGO or international aid organization that's working to help refugees who face deportation, or to support families separated or oppressed by the regime's immigration policies. I bet your contributions would be greatly appreciated, and much more impactful than a WaPo subscription.
Not that Jeff Bezos can't use the money.
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Old 31st August 2020, 05:21 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Large scale information warfare requires a lot of funding.
Does it? Why?
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Old 1st September 2020, 03:45 AM   #19
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You might gift a digital subscription for one of the major European newspapers to some Americans who are unaware that they have other options for News besides the US MSM.
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Old 1st September 2020, 04:00 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The country is a functional government now, too. If you think the Washington Post is telling you that the government is dysfunctional, and you think that represents accurate reporting, that kind of reinforces my point.
To be honest, you don't need the Washington Post to draw the conclusion that the US government is dysfunctional. I can read the coronavirus stats for myself. I can watch the videos of policemen killing people for no good reason for myself. I can watch Donald Trump's streams of consciousness for myself. I do need the media to be appraised of the attempts to steal the election, although it's not jut WaPo reporting those. I was also able to read Trump's memo of the perfect phone call in which he tried to extort a foreign head of state for myself. I was also able to read the Mueller report detailing Trump's attempts to obstruct justice for myself.

The Federal government of the USA is functioning but only to line the pockets of Trump and his cronies and to try to keep them out of jail. It is therefore dysfunctional.
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Old 1st September 2020, 04:19 AM   #21
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The best way to oppose Trump is to oppose fascism in your own country. Trump is part of a larger wave of resurgent right wing extremism in world politics. Preventing fascists like Trump from having ideological allies abroad in high places is a worthy goal.
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Old 1st September 2020, 04:38 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
So... any other way to make an impact?

Note that I'm excluding all kinds of slacktivism and Keyboard Warrior contributions, like "I'm debating Trump on Twitter every day", or "i changed my profile picture to a pro-Biden emblem". Please don't bring them up, I don't want the thread derailed.

You can point it out whenever Trumpistas lie about conditions in your country. Or about European-style socialism. Or both. Americans tend to be very ignorant about the rest of the world, so it is usually easier for Trump to make people believe his lies about other countries than about conditions in the USA.
That would be derailing of this thread, according to you, but I think it was pretty effective at the time. I haven't noticed this particular lie being repeated in that specific version, and you have to belong to the lunatic fringe in order to believe in the current version, i.e. that Biden&Harris are the leaders of Antifa.

That Americans resent foreign meddling in U.S. politics can't be true when the ruling party seems to rely on Putin bots to help them stay in power.
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Old 1st September 2020, 07:09 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Not that Jeff Bezos can't use the money.
As American regimes go, it might make more sense to oppose Amazon anyway. At least foreigners can vote for policies that prevent its spread and influence in their country.
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Old 1st September 2020, 09:11 AM   #24
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Who would oppose Trump?

Look at the OP. Fake news! This guy claims to be from Norway? Yeah, and I'm from Atlantis. Pick a real place next time you troll.
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Old 1st September 2020, 03:58 PM   #25
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Hmmm, lots of collusion in this thread.

I suppose itís to be expected. The only proven foreign collusion in 2016 was Hilary getting the Steele dossier
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Old 1st September 2020, 05:00 PM   #26
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You would be well served to read the Senate report.

I should mention, I'm not going to engage in a semantic debate about the words collusion or proof.
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Old 1st September 2020, 05:15 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
You would be well served to read the Senate report.

I should mention, I'm not going to engage in a semantic debate about the words collusion or proof.
Ah, but you'd engage in an anti-semantic debate about prollusion or croof, eh? You foreign types are all alike in your different ways!

I did happen to think of a way people in other countries can help oppose Trump: send me chocolates. We know American chocolate is just terrible by comparison, and I think that if I were to get enough samples of foreign chocolate that it would make me feel so much better about things, and that would make me happy, and my happiness would radiate outward like an exploding whale that reached that magical stage of decomposition, raining bliss and goodwill (that's me again) on everyone, not chunks of rotten blubber (that's the whale).

If sending chocolates is too difficult you can simply send me enormous quantities of valuable gemstones. I prefer flawless emeralds and rubies, but I'd accept just about any gemstone of museum-level quality that glows like a living flame of beauty imperishable. They're just rocks, so cough 'em up, okay? I feel like I'm being reasonable here.
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Old 2nd September 2020, 08:48 AM   #28
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Heh. I'm beginning to think I was wrong to take the OP seriously.
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Old 2nd September 2020, 12:03 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
If sending chocolates is too difficult you can simply send me enormous quantities of valuable gemstones. I prefer flawless emeralds and rubies, but I'd accept just about any gemstone of museum-level quality that glows like a living flame of beauty imperishable. They're just rocks, so cough 'em up, okay? I feel like I'm being reasonable here.
I can send you some cubic zirconias. Just send me $50 for the shipping and handling.
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Old 2nd September 2020, 12:13 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I can send you some cubic zirconias. Just send me $50 for the shipping and handling.
I always wondered at the "cubic" part. Why cubes? Surely almost any other shape is more practical for jewelry?
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Old 2nd September 2020, 12:14 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I always wondered at the "cubic" part. Why cubes? Surely almost any other shape is more practical for jewelry?
It is the lattice structure of the crystal.
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Old 2nd September 2020, 12:22 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
It is the lattice structure of the crystal.
Still pretty boring. I'd have marketed them claiming their structure was star-shaped so I could say "each one has a star within it", the ads practically write themselves: "You may not be a millionaire but you can still give her the stars!" and so forth. The peasants would eat that up and I'd be a fake-diamond millionaire! Oh, of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
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Old 2nd September 2020, 11:12 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
Hmmm, lots of collusion in this thread.

I suppose itís to be expected. The only proven foreign collusion in 2016 was Hilary getting the Steele dossier
No, this is not correct. You need to change your world view to match the facts. Read the Senate report and the Mueller report. Both are widely available.
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Old 3rd September 2020, 01:57 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Ah, but you'd engage in an anti-semantic debate about prollusion or croof, eh? You foreign types are all alike in your different ways!

I did happen to think of a way people in other countries can help oppose Trump: send me chocolates. We know American chocolate is just terrible by comparison, and I think that if I were to get enough samples of foreign chocolate that it would make me feel so much better about things, and that would make me happy, and my happiness would radiate outward like an exploding whale that reached that magical stage of decomposition, raining bliss and goodwill (that's me again) on everyone, not chunks of rotten blubber (that's the whale).

If sending chocolates is too difficult you can simply send me enormous quantities of valuable gemstones. I prefer flawless emeralds and rubies, but I'd accept just about any gemstone of museum-level quality that glows like a living flame of beauty imperishable. They're just rocks, so cough 'em up, okay? I feel like I'm being reasonable here.
It's too hot for chocolate. I'll send copious quantities of salty liquorice .
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Old 3rd September 2020, 08:37 AM   #35
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You could sell all your belongings, pack up and move to the U.S., apply for citizenship, once that's granted you can register to vote, at which point you then cast it for the candidate of your choice.
That is, if you're really committed to your cause, of course.
You've got like, 60 days, so hop to it.
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Old 3rd September 2020, 09:57 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
You could sell all your belongings, pack up and move to the U.S., apply for citizenship, once that's granted you can register to vote, at which point you then cast it for the candidate of your choice.
That is, if you're really committed to your cause, of course.
You've got like, 60 days, so hop to it.
There are other options. I don't think one needs to be a citizen (nor even a legal resident) to participate in Get Out The Vote activities.

At this point, that may actually be Safe-Keeper's best, most effective method of opposition. The key to this election, and thus removing the Trump "regime" from power, is going to be voter turnout in swing states. And actually going door-to-door encouraging people to get out and vote seems to be the most effective way of increasing voter turnout.

If Safe-Keeper really wants to end the regime once and for all, volunteering for GOTV efforts in blue districts in swing states may be exactly what he's looking for.
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Old 3rd September 2020, 10:22 AM   #37
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Nah, I'll just cross the border from Mexico into a Dem state, one of those that don't care about illegal immigration. Then I'll buy enough hats to vote many times, and convince others to do likewise. With a well-written "Rig the 2020 election" GoFundMe page, and the cash haul from a few looted stores, we might just make a real difference.

Come to think of it, we might just loot a hat store. Simplify the plan a little.
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Old 4th September 2020, 03:43 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
How can we foreign nationals who are terrified of the course the US has set for itself best a. help oppose Trump and b. help Team Biden win the election?
Please don't. I'm not saying you can't have your own opinions and worries... but we've gone through four years of non-stop investigation into foreign interference in our elections. I think it's best if you keep it keyboard warrioring.
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Old 4th September 2020, 03:44 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
China if you're listening...
I think I'm with you on this, assuming I've grokked the point, which is at best a shaky assumptions...
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Old 4th September 2020, 03:45 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Large scale information warfare is probably the next best thing to funding.
Hmm. Yes. What could go wrong?

Honestly, can't tell if serious.
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