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Old 3rd September 2020, 11:33 AM   #1
pgwenthold
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Trump will save the coal industry!!!!

Remember that whole issue where Clinton was hammered because she acknowledged that coal jobs were going away, and they need to think about transitioning to new areas? And Trump was going to save the coal industry?

Yeah,

"U.S. renewable energy power generation will exceed coal-fired power generation in 2020"

https://twitter.com/NatBullard/statu...19444624191498
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Old 3rd September 2020, 12:12 PM   #2
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Lots of nice explanation and beautiful graphs here about how well the Coal Industry is doing (and how the move to clean energy continues) under the Great Leader:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjo...ame-president/

Quote:
In an economy with over 129 million people employed by businesses, there are only just over 50,000 coal miners in the U.S. or 0.04% of the total number of people working. While there was a small uptick in coal miners after Trump was elected by a few thousand, the latest jobs report shows that there are fewer coal miners now working vs. three years ago. This compares to over 6.4 million jobs being added in the past three years.
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Old 3rd September 2020, 12:20 PM   #3
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Wasn't this already the joke? That coal as an entire industry employed fewer people than goddamn Arby's? And even at its peak in 1923 only employed about 1/5th of what Walmart does now?

Because it's not about coal. It's about coal's symbolic representation as the defacto "Working class" industry and the continued mythification of the idea that it's noble for someone in West Virginia to go die in a hole like his daddy and his daddy before that.
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Old 3rd September 2020, 12:52 PM   #4
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Just wait - in Trump's second term he will outlaw green energy and insist all trains are 50% powered by coal.

Bring back steam!
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Old 3rd September 2020, 07:55 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Just wait - in Trump's second term he will outlaw green energy and insist all trains are 50% powered by coal.



Bring back steam!
Moist... is that you?
Mind, I can see Trump as Harry King. Though certainly not as successful, intelligent or hard-working.
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Old 3rd September 2020, 09:18 PM   #6
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And if they US can't produce energy with coal, the poor folks can just eat the stuff.

Thing is, mining today is far more mechanised and automated than ever, including coal-mining.

It's not a big bunch of blackened-face guys in torn dungarees with picks ticking away like the Seven Dwarfs or something out of Metropolis, or some other movie. Because I'm sure that's what know-nothing Trump thinks coal mining is because that's where he gets his information from.

Nowadays it's rail-mounted mechanical diggers controlled by one guy who sits a long way back at the controls. And the coal is continuously dug and shifted on conveyors to the surface, there to be stockpiled and shipped by train.



So fewer and fewer guys are needed to actually make coal-mining work these days. And with coal demand declining, fewer and fewer of even these guys are needed.
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Old 3rd September 2020, 09:28 PM   #7
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But those who are left continue as Trump loyalist for....reasons.
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Old 3rd September 2020, 09:58 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
But those who are left continue as Trump loyalist for....reasons.
Their bosses tell them that if they don't support Trump then they will be out of work.
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Old 4th September 2020, 02:41 AM   #9
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Trump often lied about bringing back coal jobs during the last election as well.

But the fact of the matter is that people are no longer buying vast amounts of coal as they were doing several years ago, so the demand for coal has been greatly reduced.

Furthermore, new coal mining technology can mine much greater volumes of coal and do so far more quickly than human coal miners.

As a result of these two factors , the large number of coal mining jobs that were around in the past will not be returning now or in the near future.

But such obvious facts never matter to stupid, idiotic, POS liars like Trump and his various lackeys.
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Old 4th September 2020, 02:53 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Wasn't this already the joke? That coal as an entire industry employed fewer people than goddamn Arby's? And even at its peak in 1923 only employed about 1/5th of what Walmart does now?

Because it's not about coal. It's about coal's symbolic representation as the defacto "Working class" industry and the continued mythification of the idea that it's noble for someone in West Virginia to go die in a hole like his daddy and his daddy before that.
Like fishing, or the myth of fishing, in the "minds" of UK Brexiteers.
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Old 4th September 2020, 04:30 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Trump often lied about bringing back coal jobs during the last election as well.

But the fact of the matter is that people are no longer buying vast amounts of coal as they were doing several years ago, so the demand for coal has been greatly reduced.

Furthermore, new coal mining technology can mine much greater volumes of coal and do so far more quickly than human coal miners.

As a result of these two factors , the large number of coal mining jobs that were around in the past will not be returning now or in the near future.

But such obvious facts never matter to stupid, idiotic, POS liars like Trump and his various lackeys.
Hi! You copied my essay. And I provided a pic. Where's your pic?

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Old 4th September 2020, 04:41 AM   #12
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'Promises made, Promises ... oh look what's over there?!?'
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Old 4th September 2020, 04:43 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
'Promises made, Promises ... oh look what's over there?!?'
Trump: Coal-miners, I've got your back!

Miners: OK, here's our votes.

Trump: Great. And here's my back.
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Old 4th September 2020, 07:57 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post

Because it's not about coal. It's about coal's symbolic representation as the defacto "Working class" industry and the continued mythification of the idea that it's noble for someone in West Virginia to go die in a hole like his daddy and his daddy before that.
It is definitely cultural. A ton of that is the result of a relentless coal industry propaganda campaign. It is absolutely insane when considered objectively with the history of the industry.

I mean, up until relatively recently (maybe 1990ish) everyone was trying to get out of those holes, but somehow now they are fighting to get down them. Just... crazy.
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Old 4th September 2020, 08:06 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Just wait - in Trump's second term he will outlaw green energy and insist all trains are 50% powered by coal.

Bring back steam!
He's kind of doing that with power plants. Or at least was trying to.
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Old 4th September 2020, 08:24 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Wasn't this already the joke? That coal as an entire industry employed fewer people than goddamn Arby's? And even at its peak in 1923 only employed about 1/5th of what Walmart does now?

Because it's not about coal. It's about coal's symbolic representation as the defacto "Working class" industry and the continued mythification of the idea that it's noble for someone in West Virginia to go die in a hole like his daddy and his daddy before that.
its about ((to some)) orange man bad and irrational Arby's hate
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Old 4th September 2020, 08:36 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
its about ((to some)) orange man bad and irrational Arby's hate
Forgot one set of parenthesis there . . . Rocky.
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Old 4th September 2020, 08:47 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
its about ((to some)) orange man bad and irrational Arby's hate
Yes, the orange man is bad.

He made false promises to working class Americans (that he should have known he couldn't follow through on) that he would bring their coal mining jobs back. He then worked on rolling back environmental regulations (e.g. rules that affect release of toxic metals from coal plants into water supplies) and removing health care from people (many of whom had health problems from working in the coal mines). He has also attacked programs like the Appalation Regional Commission, a program that actually could reduce unemployment in areas affected by the loss of coal mining jobs.

So yeah, trump has been pretty bad to the coal miners and their communities.

Granted I don't have that much sympathy for the trump voters in coal mining areas... They should have known trump was full of bunk. But that doesn't absolve trump from his roll in this.

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Old 4th September 2020, 08:50 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Yes, the orange man is bad.

He made false promises to working class Americans (that he should have known he couldn't follow through on) that he would bring their coal mining jobs back. He then worked on rolling back environmental regulations (e.g. rules that affect release of toxic metals from coal plants into water supplies) and removing health care from people (many of whom had health problems from working in the coal mines). He has also attacked programs like the Appalation Regional Commission, a program that actually could reduce unemployment in areas affected by the loss of coal mining jobs.

So yeah, trump has been pretty bad to the coal miners and their communities.

Granted I don't have that much sympathy for the trump voters in coal mining areas... They should have known trump was full of bunk. But that doesn't absolve trump from his roll in this.

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Yet Arby's did nothing to you in spite of your Orange Man Obsessive Disorder
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Old 4th September 2020, 08:54 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Forgot one set of parenthesis there . . . Rocky.
Haven't you noticed? Unique punctuation is the shibboleth of all the wisest people on the internet.
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Old 4th September 2020, 09:04 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
its about ((to some)) orange man bad and irrational Arby's hate
Don't forget "both sides suck".

Are you going to offer any sort of considered argument in defense of Trump's failure to follow through on his campaign promise to the coal industry, or are you limited to catch phrases, like someone who lobs "SJW!" or "snowflake" as a cover to dismiss what he can't address cogently?

Trump made some bold promises about coal - promises which were then criticized as economically unreasonable. And here we are, four years on, and the coal industry is still gradually going the way of the buggy whip industry.
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Old 4th September 2020, 09:04 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Trump often lied about bringing back coal jobs during the last election as well.

But the fact of the matter is that people are no longer buying vast amounts of coal as they were doing several years ago, so the demand for coal has been greatly reduced.

Furthermore, new coal mining technology can mine much greater volumes of coal and do so far more quickly than human coal miners.

As a result of these two factors , the large number of coal mining jobs that were around in the past will not be returning now or in the near future.

But such obvious facts never matter to stupid, idiotic, POS liars like Trump and his various lackeys.
Not only that, saying these facts pisses them off.

That's what HRC did in West Virginia, and all they could talk about was how she was taking their jobs away and Trump was going to save them.

Clinton was right and Trump lied. It's a microcosm of the 2016 election.
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Old 4th September 2020, 09:11 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
Don't forget "both sides suck".

Are you going to offer any sort of considered argument in defense of Trump's failure to follow through on his campaign promise to the coal industry, or are you limited to catch phrases, like someone who lobs "SJW!" or "snowflake" as a cover to dismiss what he can't address cogently?

Trump made some bold promises about coal - promises which were then criticized as economically unreasonable. And here we are, four years on, and the coal industry is still gradually going the way of the buggy whip industry.
I dont support Trump and so owe you no explanation, just enjoy pointing out the obsessively one sided mindset some have in throwing OMB at literally everything they don't like. A bunch of butthurt sjw babies who can't even look within and face up to their own side's failings.

Maybe we should bring back steam, cleaner than some sources.
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Old 4th September 2020, 10:29 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
I dont support Trump and so owe you no explanation, just enjoy pointing out the obsessively one sided mindset some have in throwing OMB at literally everything they don't like. A bunch of butthurt sjw babies who can't even look within and face up to their own side's failings.
Butthurt babies? You're the one who started a thread announcing that this forum had achieved strike one by offending you, apparently expecting everyone to be suitably ashamed of having hurt your feelings, like we'd blinded you with soap poisoning.

You keep objecting that you don't support Trump, yet you engage in infantile mockery of anyone who criticizes him in any way, responding to any negative appraisal of his performance with "orange man bad", like Frankenstein's monster. If you want to convince anyone that this is anything more than a knee-jerk dismissal of any and all criticism of Trump, then why don't you actually, you know, address the argument? Why don't you provide a counter-argument explaining why you think he hasn't failed to deliver on his promise, or even why it wasn't economically unrealistic to have made it in the first place? Quit engaging in histrionics, like "orange man bad", and employ the intellect that you obviously believe you possess to show us some nuanced reasons why criticism of Trump's performance as president is as wrong as you think it is?

Quote:
Maybe we should bring back steam, cleaner than some sources.
Bring back steam? What do you think coal is burned to produce? It's not steam that's the problem, it's where you get the energy to make water into steam. Coal is one of the worst energy sources from an environment standpoint. But even if we achieve fusion reactors, they will still be used to heat water to steam to drive steam turbines that turn dynamos. There are power generation methods that don't use steam turbines to drive generators, like hydroelectric, gas turbines, wind, etcetera. But saying "bring back steam" in the context of coal is nonsensical. Steam is already a part of the coal energy chain.
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Old 4th September 2020, 10:33 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
Steam is already a part of the coal energy chain.
Coal is clean, didn't you see the signs?
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Old 4th September 2020, 10:45 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Suddenly View Post
Coal is clean, didn't you see the signs?
They'd have to cut funding for science education to get anyone to believe that.
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Old 4th September 2020, 11:11 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
They'd have to cut funding for science education to get anyone to believe that.
I'm pretty sure the coal industry has most of the southern part of the state convinced coal makes a good breakfast cereal.

COAL IT KEEPS THE LIGHTS ON!!!!! PLUS 8 ESSENTIAL VITAMINS AND MINERALS!!!

COAL IS MOTHER, COAL IS FATHER.

Two moonshine-scented tears trickle down the sides of my nose. But it is all right, everything is all right, the struggle is finished. I have won the victory over myself. I love coal.
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Old 4th September 2020, 11:14 AM   #28
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Well I guess Trump will just tell us how much worse it would have been if he haven't got elected and how bad it will be for the coal industry if Biden takes over...
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Old 4th September 2020, 11:22 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Suddenly View Post
I'm pretty sure the coal industry has most of the southern part of the state convinced coal makes a good breakfast cereal.

COAL IT KEEPS THE LIGHTS ON!!!!! PLUS 8 ESSENTIAL VITAMINS AND MINERALS!!!

COAL IS MOTHER, COAL IS FATHER.

Two moonshine-scented tears trickle down the sides of my nose. But it is all right, everything is all right, the struggle is finished. I have won the victory over myself. I love coal.
I make a tip across the PA Turnpike once a year to go to Pennsic. (Not this year obviously) and each year I noticed the highway billboards took on an increasingly ....desperate tone.

4 years ago: “Clean Coal is the Future!”
3 years ago: “Clean Coal = Jobs!”
2 years ago: “Coal is a a Critical Part of the US Economy!”
1 year ago: “**** You, you ******** *****! You ******* NEED Coal, you pampered little *****!”
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Old 4th September 2020, 11:30 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Lennart Hyland View Post
Well I guess Trump will just tell us how much worse it would have been if he haven't got elected and how bad it will be for the coal industry if Biden takes over...
Nah. He will claim things are better based on some cherry picked stats and outright lies and call it a day.

Coal isn't really coal. It is a symbol for a set of cultural and moral values held by a lot of Northern Appalachians. Most of the people that will be affected by Trump's claims of support probably don't even know anyone that mines coal. Actual results don't matter.
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Old 4th September 2020, 11:30 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Suddenly View Post
I'm pretty sure the coal industry has most of the southern part of the state convinced coal makes a good breakfast cereal.

COAL IT KEEPS THE LIGHTS ON!!!!! PLUS 8 ESSENTIAL VITAMINS AND MINERALS!!!

COAL IS MOTHER, COAL IS FATHER.

Two moonshine-scented tears trickle down the sides of my nose. But it is all right, everything is all right, the struggle is finished. I have won the victory over myself. I love coal.
Coal gives you good bellyfeel!
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Old 4th September 2020, 11:33 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
I make a tip across the PA Turnpike once a year to go to Pennsic. (Not this year obviously) and each year I noticed the highway billboards took on an increasingly ....desperate tone.

4 years ago: “Clean Coal is the Future!”
3 years ago: “Clean Coal = Jobs!”
2 years ago: “Coal is a a Critical Part of the US Economy!”
1 year ago: “**** You, you ******** *****! You ******* NEED Coal, you pampered little *****!”
Coal: it stops the shakes!
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Old 4th September 2020, 11:45 AM   #33
crescent
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Old 4th September 2020, 11:48 AM   #34
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Old 4th September 2020, 05:14 PM   #35
Jim_MDP
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This thread took a good turn. Now we're cookin' with gas!


.


Oh crap...
*runs*
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Old 4th September 2020, 06:43 PM   #36
Lurch
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
I dont support Trump and so owe you no explanation, just enjoy pointing out the obsessively one sided mindset some have in throwing OMB at literally everything they don't like. A bunch of butthurt sjw babies who can't even look within and face up to their own side's failings.

Maybe we should bring back steam, cleaner than some sources.
But how do you get the steam?

Steam isn't the energy source.
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Old 4th September 2020, 07:01 PM   #37
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Not only that, saying these facts pisses them off.

That's what HRC did in West Virginia, and all they could talk about was how she was taking their jobs away and Trump was going to save them.

Clinton was right and Trump lied. It's a microcosm of the 2016 election.
Of course Hillary was right. Every energy analyst in the country said she was right. Then it was natural gas and now it is solar. The cost of solar has been dropping like a stone.and with continued improvements like perovskite its going to get a whole lot cheaper.

Hillary wanted a soft landing for the miners but no, they believed the fairy tale bs Trump sold them.
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Old 4th September 2020, 07:08 PM   #38
Foster Zygote
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Originally Posted by Jim_MDP View Post
This thread took a good turn. Now we're cookin' with gas!


.


Oh crap...
*runs*
"My dad says kerosene is a bastard gas." - Bobby Hill
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Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone.
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Old 4th September 2020, 08:18 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
Haven't you noticed? Unique punctuation is the shibboleth of all the wisest people on the internet.
That takes this ex-a.f.u. denizen back
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Old 5th September 2020, 04:47 PM   #40
Gulliver Foyle
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Originally Posted by Jim_MDP View Post
Moist... is that you?
Mind, I can see Trump as Harry King. Though certainly not as successful, intelligent or hard-working.
Trump's more of a Ronnie Rust.
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