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Old 14th November 2018, 11:14 AM   #561
ponderingturtle
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
Please pardon my ignorance on this. That does indeed strike me as messed up, despite the Supreme Court's rulings.

Okay, I'll amend my threshold to where I thought it was as opposed to where it evidently is: I'd prefer the line to be nudged back a bit so that you forfeit your free speech protection when you promote violence to people even when they aren't brandishing weapons and standing next to a target of the rhetoric. I guess chants of "white power" are vague enough for me to be protected free speech, but "Jews will not replace us" is not.

Now that's the legal stuff. Counterprotesters are free to go after even the protected speech that they find offensive, and I would gladly join in shouting down any fools chanting white power.

Again shouting down =/= smashing storefronts and starting a riot because someone said something you don't like. This is why Antifa is bs, and they're enabling the creeps they're trying to stifle.
Yes and the violent rioters are a problem and should be arrested. But of course you are using the right wing methodology to say that all the counter protestors many of whom are not there to riot and do identify as antifa are not worth having around.

Simply documenting the alt right and publicising their racism and fascism was the origin of the antifa movement. But the right wing is great at shaping the narrative so that their opponents get tarred with the extremists and they don't.

Take the pro life movement, a similar single issue movement to the antifa movement. You see a lot of politicians manage to call themselves pro life and embrace the movement with the harassment of rape victims and all that with out getting tarred with the bombings and murders.
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Old 14th November 2018, 04:43 PM   #562
caveman1917
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Simply documenting the alt right and publicising their racism and fascism was the origin of the antifa movement.
The origin of the antifa movement is the establishment of Antifaschistische Aktion in 1932.
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Old 14th November 2018, 06:31 PM   #563
Mumbles
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
Okay, I'll amend my threshold to where I thought it was as opposed to where it evidently is: I'd prefer the line to be nudged back a bit so that you forfeit your free speech protection when you promote violence to people even when they aren't brandishing weapons and standing next to a target of the rhetoric. I guess chants of "white power" are vague enough for me to be protected free speech, but "Jews will not replace us" is not.
Worth note: the "Jews will not" guys in Charolettesville were openly planning to bring weapons and attack people, and they did so in writing online, and these messages were shown to the town's government. That "rally" should have never been allowed in the first place.
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Old 14th November 2018, 07:05 PM   #564
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Yes and the violent rioters are a problem and should be arrested. But of course you are using the right wing methodology to say that all the counter protestors many of whom are not there to riot and do identify as antifa are not worth having around.

Simply documenting the alt right and publicising their racism and fascism was the origin of the antifa movement. But the right wing is great at shaping the narrative so that their opponents get tarred with the extremists and they don't.

Take the pro life movement, a similar single issue movement to the antifa movement. You see a lot of politicians manage to call themselves pro life and embrace the movement with the harassment of rape victims and all that with out getting tarred with the bombings and murders.
As I remember it, other than a brief moment of lauding in the wake of Charlottesville, antifa's overriding contribution to the narrative of racism and fascism in the past few years has been: totally overshadowing BLM events with their rudderless stupidity. BLM and Antifa "solidarity" (such as it can be called when antifa is involved) was brief before BLM saw a bunch of young white kids hijack their campaigns, lecture them (I remind you: young white kids lecturing black community elders) about how to wage "proper" resistance, and basically wrote the reactionary script of "black people('s supposed friends) riot (after all the black people leave an entirely too boring for even local news candlelight vigil and some speeches that wrapped up so everyone could go eat supper)" for them.
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Old 15th November 2018, 07:08 AM   #565
The Shrike
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Worth note: the "Jews will not" guys in Charolettesville were openly planning to bring weapons and attack people, and they did so in writing online, and these messages were shown to the town's government. That "rally" should have never been allowed in the first place.
Agreed.
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Old 15th November 2018, 07:36 AM   #566
The Shrike
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
. . . you are using the right wing methodology to say that all the counter protestors many of whom are not there to riot and do identify as antifa are not worth having around.
I assume that it works best in a riot to disperse all the protestors rather than interview them individually to determine who is promoting violence and who is demonstrating peaceably. This is unfortunate for the peaceful protestors.

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
But the right wing is great at shaping the narrative so that their opponents get tarred with the extremists and they don't.
I don't know if the Right is good at this or if they're simply shameless in their rhetoric and appealing to a more gullible electorate.

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Take the pro life movement, a similar single issue movement to the antifa movement. You see a lot of politicians manage to call themselves pro life and embrace the movement with the harassment of rape victims and all that with out getting tarred with the bombings and murders.
Because tacit endorsement of such reprehensible action does not "tar" a politician in the eyes of pro-life voters. They don't have a problem with harassing rape victims (they were asking for it) and getting bombed at an abortion clinic is simply God's justice against the baby killers at Planned Parenthood.
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