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Old 3rd December 2019, 01:03 PM   #1001
jonesdave116
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Well Mr plasma expert, it is blown outwards by the activity of the young Sun. Blown? As if blowing in the wind?

Must have? According to the Dirtysnowball model?

Duh! If the comet had formed where the refractories formed, they wouldn't be full of bloody ice when you smack them with an impactor! Talk about stupid questions!
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Old 3rd December 2019, 01:05 PM   #1002
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Quote:
Energy conversion in cometary atmospheres and that’s the HASER model...this give jonesdave116 his billions of tonnes of ice from Tempel 1 along with a way out estimation for dust to gas ratio.
No it doesn't you clown. Stop talking crap. You have no idea about any of the relevant science. Go play on dunderdolts with the rest of the scientifically challenged.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 01:05 PM   #1003
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Exclamation Sol88's insane and lying delusions about what Patzold, et.al (2018) wrote

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.
Sol88 gives us an insane rant from Wal Thornhill about stars.
Sol88 gives us an insane video from Donald Scott: Voyager 2 and our Solar System's Birkeland Current
Yet another insane rant from Sol88. Insane lie about asteroid Bennu. Insane ignorance about plasma sheaths. Etc.
Yet another insane rant from Sol88. Insane lies about posts and posters, about models he is totally ignorant about, that an approximation is an error, that ices are not observed, etc.
Will Sol88's insanity that we have not detected ices on comets pop up again? Or has he finally learned a real fact about comets that his demented cult denies?

Sol88's usual insanity which emphasizes Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Sol88's usual insane lies about science, comets, posts and posters
The methods used to estimate the amount of ices on comets are not Sol88's insane and lying delusions about the Haser model, etc. We have actually measured the dust to ices ratio in 2 comets and there are plenty of ices. Up to 50% on Tempel 1. Up to 33% at 67P.

Sol88's insane and lying delusions about what Patzold, et.al (2018) wrote in their paper.
The Nucleus of comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko – Part I: The global view – nucleus mass, mass-loss, porosity, and implications
Quote:
Abstract
The radio science experiment RSI on-board Rosetta determined the mass of the nucleus of comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko at the start of the prime mission from 2014 August to November (GM = 666.2 ± 0.2 m3 s−2 or 9982 ± 3 × 1012 kg) and shortly before the end of the mission from 2016 July to September (GM = 665.5 ± 0.1 m3 s−2 or 9971.5 ± 1.5 × 1012 kg). The mass-loss is ΔM = 10.5 ± 3.4·109 kg, about 0.1 per cent of the nucleus mass. Almost 50 per cent of the mass-loss occurred during the 32 d before and 62 d after perihelion. The nucleus mass combined with the new very precise nucleus volume of 18.56 ± 0.02 km3 yields a bulk density of 537.8 ± 0.6 kg m−3. This low bulk density suggests that the nucleus is highly porous. The porosity is constrained by the observed bulk density, the density of ices, mostly water ice, and the density of compacted nucleus dust material. For a range of compacted dust material density from 2000 to 3500 kg m−3, the porosity varies between 65–79 per cent when the dust-to-ice mass ratio Fnucleus for the nucleus body lies in the range 3 ≤ Fnucleus ≤ 7. The nucleus is thus a highly porous very dusty body with very little ice. The total mass-loss ΔM puts hard constraints on the models of interpretation of the observations from other instruments on Rosetta. The loss from gas, based on ROSINA and MIRO observations, suggests that Fcoma, the dust-to-gas mass ratio of cometary matter in the coma beyond the Hill sphere of the nucleus is of the order of Fcoma ≤ 0.5 and therefore at least six times, and perhaps as much as 14 times, smaller than Fnucleus. It seems that the lost gas mass was overestimated by the instruments. The lost gas mass shall be 5.25 × 109 kg for Fcoma = 1. For any other gas mass values > 5.25 × 109 kg Fcoma is < 1. Most of the lifted dust mass will not leave the cometary Hill sphere but falls back to the nucleus. For 3 ≤ Fnucleus ≤ 7 and Fcoma = 0.5, the fallback mass is between 1.8·ΔM and 4.3·ΔM.
That "with very little ice" is a dust-to-ice mass ratio Fnucleus of 3 to 7. A child can do the arithmetic that 67P is at least 1/7 or 14% ices by mass and may be 33% ices by mass.
Sol88's insane delusion is a year or more of ignoring the actual numbers that are that "very little ice" !

Fcoma as measured by Rosetta instruments was much lower. Thus "It seems that the lost gas mass was overestimated by the instruments.". Patzold, et.al (2018) are stating the obvious. The two numbers disagree. One way to reconcile the numbers is that the Rosetta instruments missed some gas in the coma. They could have over counted some dust but that is much less likely.
Sol88's insane delusion is quoting a rational conclusion that everyone will agree with !

Last edited by Reality Check; 3rd December 2019 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 01:07 PM   #1004
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Quote:
So a rocky body with no ice?
Still can't read nor comprehend, I see. What is Patzold's estimate for the lost ice mass? Answer, you chicken.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 01:09 PM   #1005
Reality Check
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Exclamation The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed since 6 July 2009

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.
Sol88 gives us an insane rant from Wal Thornhill about stars.
Sol88 gives us an insane video from Donald Scott: Voyager 2 and our Solar System's Birkeland Current
Yet another insane rant from Sol88. Insane lie about asteroid Bennu. Insane ignorance about plasma sheaths. Etc.
Yet another insane rant from Sol88. Insane lies about posts and posters, about models he is totally ignorant about, that an approximation is an error, that ices are not observed, etc.
Will Sol88's insanity that we have not detected ices on comets pop up again? Or has he finally learned a real fact about comets that his demented cult denies?
Sol88's insane and lying delusions about what Patzold, et.al (2018) wrote in their paper.

Sol88's usual insanity which emphasizes Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Sol88's usual insane lies about science, comets, posts and posters

Last edited by Reality Check; 3rd December 2019 at 01:14 PM.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 01:11 PM   #1006
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post



Fcoma as measured by Rosetta instruments was much lower. Thus "It seems that the lost gas mass was overestimated by the instruments.". Patzold, et.al (2018) are stating the obvious. The two numbers disagree. One way to reconcile the numbers is that the Rosetta instruments missed some gas in the coma. They could have over counted some dust but that is much less likely.
More likely is that Patzold et al have underestimated the fall back mass.Too many instruments agree on the gas production rates within a factor of a few, and some of the plasma processes seen require a certain level of outgassing, or wouldn't happen.The ball park figure is that 67P lost ~ 5 million tonnes of ice, and a similar amount of dust.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 01:26 PM   #1007
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Exclamation Sol88's insane and lying delusion about the Stardust dust grains being "FLASH heated"

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.
Sol88 gives us an insane rant from Wal Thornhill about stars.
Sol88 gives us an insane video from Donald Scott: Voyager 2 and our Solar System's Birkeland Current
Yet another insane rant from Sol88. Insane lie about asteroid Bennu. Insane ignorance about plasma sheaths. Etc.
Yet another insane rant from Sol88. Insane lies about posts and posters, about models he is totally ignorant about, that an approximation is an error, that ices are not observed, etc.
Will Sol88's insanity that we have not detected ices on comets pop up again? Or has he finally learned a real fact about comets that his demented cult denies?
Sol88's insane and lying delusions about what Patzold, et.al (2018) wrote in their paper.

Sol88's usual insanity which emphasizes Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Sol88's usual insane lies about science, comets, posts and posters
Sol88's insanity that we have to measure the temperature of a comet nucleus to a resolution of millimeters or whatever his abysmally ignorant brain comes up with?
The cited paper is simple to understand. The minerals on comets were formed at very high temperatures that cannot happen on comet nuclei and have never been detected at comets. That is a minor reason why Sol88's insane religious dogma is insane and religious dogma !

Sol88's insane and lying delusion about the Stardust dust grains being "FLASH heated".
Stardust
Quote:
The comet samples show that the outer regions of the early Solar System were not isolated and were not a refuge where interstellar materials could commonly survive.[53] The data suggest that high-temperature inner Solar System material formed and was subsequently transferred to the Kuiper Belt.[54]
The Stardust Mission: Analyzing Samples from the Edge of the Solar System
Those samples are "familiar high-temperature meteoritic materials, such as chondrule fragments". That is the young Sun heating up or BAKING refractory minerals until they are at least partially molten.
Chondrule
Quote:
A Chondrule (from Ancient Greek χόνδρος chondros, grain) is a round grain found in a chondrite. Chondrules form as molten or partially molten droplets in space before being accreted to their parent asteroids. Because chondrites represent one of the oldest solid materials within the Solar System[1] and are believed to be the building blocks of the planetary system, it follows that an understanding of the formation of chondrules is important to understand the initial development of the planetary system.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 01:29 PM   #1008
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
Duh! If the comet had formed where the refractories formed, they wouldn't be full of bloody ice when you smack them with an impactor! Talk about stupid questions!
You’ve forgotten all about charge and plasma dynamics again and confabulated the issue.

The action you described is story book fairytale fantasy. Blown outward to were the ice AND oxygen waited for the wind to blow.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 01:41 PM   #1009
Reality Check
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Exclamation The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed since 6 July 2009

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.
Sol88 gives us an insane rant from Wal Thornhill about stars.
Sol88 gives us an insane video from Donald Scott: Voyager 2 and our Solar System's Birkeland Current
Yet another insane rant from Sol88. Insane lie about asteroid Bennu. Insane ignorance about plasma sheaths. Etc.
Yet another insane rant from Sol88. Insane lies about posts and posters, about models he is totally ignorant about, that an approximation is an error, that ices are not observed, etc.
Will Sol88's insanity that we have not detected ices on comets pop up again? Or has he finally learned a real fact about comets that his demented cult denies?
Sol88's insane and lying delusions about what Patzold, et.al (2018) wrote in their paper.
Sol88's insane and lying delusion about the Stardust dust grains being "FLASH heated".

Sol88's usual insanity which emphasizes Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Sol88's usual insane lies about science, comets, posts and posters
Sol88's usual demented questions.
Sol88 cited the detection of high-temperature refractory material formed in the inner Soar System in a comet from the outer solar system !
A young star has very strong solar winds so everyone expects inner system dust to be transferred to the outer system. Stardust was the first direct evidence that this happened in the early solar system.
Constraints on the Formation Age of Cometary Material from the NASA Stardust Mission (2010)
Quote:
Comets are thought to be remnants of the Sun's protoplanetary disk; hence, they hold important clues to the processes that originated the solar system. Matzel et al. (p. 483, published online 25 February) present Al-Mg isotope data on a refractory particle recovered from comet Wild 2 by the NASA Stardust mission. The lack of evidence for the extinct radiogenic isotope 26Al implies that this particle crystallized 1.7 million years after the formation of the oldest solar system solids. This observation, in turn, requires that material formed near the Sun was transported to the outer reaches of the solar system and incorporated into comets over a period of at least two million years.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 01:48 PM   #1010
Reality Check
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Exclamation Sol88's insane and lying delusion that textbook astronomy is a "story book fairytale

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.
Sol88 gives us an insane rant from Wal Thornhill about stars.
Sol88 gives us an insane video from Donald Scott: Voyager 2 and our Solar System's Birkeland Current
Yet another insane rant from Sol88. Insane lie about asteroid Bennu. Insane ignorance about plasma sheaths. Etc.
Yet another insane rant from Sol88. Insane lies about posts and posters, about models he is totally ignorant about, that an approximation is an error, that ices are not observed, etc.
Will Sol88's insanity that we have not detected ices on comets pop up again? Or has he finally learned a real fact about comets that his demented cult denies?
Sol88's insane and lying delusions about what Patzold, et.al (2018) wrote in their paper.
Sol88's insane and lying delusion about the Stardust dust grains being "FLASH heated".

Sol88's usual insanity which emphasizes Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Sol88's usual insane lies about science, comets, posts and posters
Sol88's insane lie that jonesdave116 wrote about comets in the inner Solar System with plasma coma and tails when jonesdave116 wrote Duh! If the comet had formed where the refractories formed, they wouldn't be full of bloody ice when you smack them with an impactor! Talk about stupid questions!

If comets formed in the high temperature inner solar system inside the frost line than they would not be formed with any ices ! Deep Impact on Tempel 1 found the compete to be full of ices. There is also Sol88's insanity that all of these comets forming in the inner solar system are somehow transported to outside of Jupiter and further !

Sol88's insane and lying delusion that textbook astronomy (nebular hypothesis) is a "story book fairytale fantasy".
Nebular hypothesis is a scientific theory backed up with empirical evidence. We have images of stellar systems forming, starting from the molecular cloud collapsing, to the young star physically blowing material away from it, and to planets clearing their orbits.

Last edited by Reality Check; 3rd December 2019 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 01:57 PM   #1011
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
More likely is that Patzold et al have underestimated the fall back mass.Too many instruments agree on the gas production rates within a factor of a few, and some of the plasma processes seen require a certain level of outgassing, or wouldn't happen.The ball park figure is that 67P lost ~ 5 million tonnes of ice, and a similar amount of dust.

First how on Earth are you getting 5 million tonnes of ice AND a similar amount of dust?

The dust was moderately easy to observe, up close and personal a couple times now the gas... hello Mr Haser...
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“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator
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Old 3rd December 2019, 01:58 PM   #1012
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
You’ve forgotten all about charge and plasma dynamics again and confabulated the issue.

The action you described is story book fairytale fantasy. Blown outward to were the ice AND oxygen waited for the wind to blow.
Plasma dynamics! Lol. Where do you get this crap? What the hell has that got to do with thousands of tonnes of ice being blasted out of a comet?
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Old 3rd December 2019, 02:01 PM   #1013
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
First how on Earth are you getting 5 million tonnes of ice AND a similar amount of dust?

The dust was moderately easy to observe, up close and personal a couple times now the gas... hello Mr Haser...
What? Gas has been observed at comets for decades. Long before we ever went to one. Talk about stupid. What do you think MIRO detects? And VIRTIS? And ROSINA? And any number of Earth and space based instruments? You really do come out with some idiotic nonsense.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 02:08 PM   #1014
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
Still can't read nor comprehend, I see. What is Patzold's estimate for the lost ice mass? Answer, you chicken.
For all realistic density of the DUST we see, smell and touch, 2.5-3.0g/cm3 is pretty good. This is close enough to the ELECTRIC COMETS ROCK.

Now the RSI data returned a miniscule amount of MASS loss, some had to be GAS some has to be DUST.

So we get a porosity of 80%...most of this is DUST , the rest porous holes of vacuum with little (electric comet model has already acknowledged there is ice everywhere, it’s as common as muck) to no ICE.

So the little ice version is fine with the EC and the no ice is the EC

So die Dirtysnowball...

If Patzold is correct...
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Old 3rd December 2019, 03:11 PM   #1015
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
For all realistic density of the DUST we see, smell and touch, 2.5-3.0g/cm3 is pretty good. This is close enough to the ELECTRIC COMETS ROCK.
No, it is not. The EC idiots need rock. There is none. Fail.

Quote:
Now the RSI data returned a miniscule amount of MASS loss, some had to be GAS some has to be DUST.
Lol. 10 million tonnes!

Quote:
So we get a porosity of 80%...most of this is DUST , the rest porous holes of vacuum with little (electric comet model has already acknowledged there is ice everywhere, it’s as common as muck) to no ICE.
Can't read, can you (rhetorical)? What does Patzold estimate as the gas mass loss? How many hundred thousand tonnes? It's in the paper. Learn to read.

Quote:
So the little ice version is fine with the EC and the no ice is the EC
Your model has failed completely! No rock, no electric woo. It is dead. Any idiot could have figured that out by reading the Tempel 1 papers from a decade and a half ago. I repeat - no rock, no electric woo. You failed. Horribly.


Quote:
If Patzold is correct...
How much is the ice mass loss according to Patzold, chicken boy?
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Old 3rd December 2019, 04:16 PM   #1016
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Thumbs down The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed since 6 July 2009

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.
Sol88 gives us an insane rant from Wal Thornhill about stars.
Sol88 gives us an insane video from Donald Scott: Voyager 2 and our Solar System's Birkeland Current
Yet another insane rant from Sol88. Insane lie about asteroid Bennu. Insane ignorance about plasma sheaths. Etc.
Yet another insane rant from Sol88. Insane lies about posts and posters, about models he is totally ignorant about, that an approximation is an error, that ices are not observed, etc.
Will Sol88's insanity that we have not detected ices on comets pop up again? Or has he finally learned a real fact about comets that his demented cult denies?
Sol88's insane and lying delusions about what Patzold, et.al (2018) wrote in their paper.
Sol88's insane and lying delusion about the Stardust dust grains being "FLASH heated".
Sol88's insane and lying delusion that textbook astronomy (nebular hypothesis) is a "story book fairytale fantasy".

Sol88's usual insanity which emphasizes Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Sol88's usual insane lies about science, comets, posts and posters
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Old 3rd December 2019, 04:29 PM   #1017
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Thumbs down Sol88 insanely lies about Sol88's religious dogma

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.
Sol88 gives us an insane rant from Wal Thornhill about stars.
Sol88 gives us an insane video from Donald Scott: Voyager 2 and our Solar System's Birkeland Current
Yet another insane rant from Sol88. Insane lie about asteroid Bennu. Insane ignorance about plasma sheaths. Etc.
Yet another insane rant from Sol88. Insane lies about posts and posters, about models he is totally ignorant about, that an approximation is an error, that ices are not observed, etc.
Will Sol88's insanity that we have not detected ices on comets pop up again? Or has he finally learned a real fact about comets that his demented cult denies?
Sol88's insane and lying delusions about what Patzold, et.al (2018) wrote in their paper.
Sol88's insane and lying delusion about the Stardust dust grains being "FLASH heated".
Sol88's insane and lying delusion that textbook astronomy (nebular hypothesis) is a "story book fairytale fantasy".

Sol88's usual insanity which emphasizes Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Sol88's usual insane lies about science, comets, posts and posters
Sol88's decade old, insane religious dogma that comets are only rock at a density of "2.5-3.0g/cm3" when we measure density a 6th of that !

Sol88's insane "miniscule amount of MASS loss" lie.
The Nucleus of comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko – Part I: The global view – nucleus mass, mass-loss, porosity, and implications
The total mass loss measured was 10.5 ± 3.4·10^9 kg. That is an enormous MASS loss !. It is a miniscule percentage of the nucleus mass ("about 0.1 per cent of the nucleus mass").

Sol88's "a porosity of 80%...most of this is DUST" insanity. Porosity does not give compostin. It could be 80% pure ice or 80% pure dust but as the paper states it will be between 14% and 33% ices to dust.

Sol88 insanely lies about Sol88's religious dogma which includes the cult insanity of electric discharges at the surface of solid rock producing all of their "little ices" only at the surface of comets.
That was debunked forever by Deep Impact in 2015 excavating ices from under the surface. Debunked again by the papers that Sol88 has been citing on 67P. ""electric comet model has already acknowledged there is ice everywhere" is Sol88 insanely lying about Sol88's religious dogma ! The insanity is that we have been clearly explaining Sol88's insane religious dogma to everyone for years (see above) and Sol88 still lies about it!

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Old 10th December 2019, 08:06 PM   #1018
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I was reminded by my news feed that the Parker Solar Probe has been collecting data about the Sun for over a year now. Perihelion #1 Nov 6 2018 03:27 UTC.

So where are the scientific papers from Sol88's cult showing their match to the data ?
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Old 22nd December 2019, 11:45 PM   #1019
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Thanks RC for bringing that up

Donald Scott: Birkeland Currents and the Parker Solar Probe

SAFIRE!!

They nailed it!

Get back to me when you work out what the "switchbacks" are.

The TRANSMUTATION of hydrogen is quite something.
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Old 23rd December 2019, 12:09 AM   #1020
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Really? So they got an electric sun model running without putting in outside electricity?
All the worlds energy crisis is solved?
We can start running spacecraft on birkeland currents so they need no extra fuel?
We can start colonizing the solar system and the universe?
Wow, when will practical applications occur?
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Old 23rd December 2019, 12:19 AM   #1021
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anywhoo back to the ELECTRIC COMET

Polarisation of a small-scale cometary plasma environment

one problem though,
Quote:
In this paper we report results of an electrostatic particle in cell simulation that paints a qualitative picture of the electric fields in the ionised coma of a scaled-down version of comet 67P.
Quote:
One obvious limitation is that the simulations are electrostatic, and we therefore cannot follow how the magnetic field develops in time. This means that we are unable to realistically reproduce a bow shock, which at a real comet exhibits a significant magnetic field gradient.
So unable to reproduce the cometary double layers.

But

Quote:
Still, the times around perihelion when a diamagnetic cavity has formed are out of reach for electrostatic models and require electromagnetic simulation codes
Oh electromagnetic! like electrodynamics, as I've said.

and

jonesdave116 the paper contains the answer to your question on the direction of the electric fields and how they affect the + and - charges.

They must include the negatively charged dust!

Negatively charged nano-grains at 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko

Quote:
Shortly after the Rosetta mission’s rendezvous with 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko the RPC/IES instrument intermittently detected negative particles that were identified as singly charged nano-dust grains. These grains were recorded as a nearly mono-energetic
beam of particles in the 200−500 eV range arriving from the direction of the comet.
thought you said only ions leave the comet, JD, as this was the way your electrostatic field pointed.

Seems you been approximating and simplifying stuff till it roughly fits the dirtysnowball model, the first and only quantitative model of comets!

No ice to sublimate at 3au champ!
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Old 23rd December 2019, 12:25 AM   #1022
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
Really? So they got an electric sun model running without putting in outside electricity?
All the worlds energy crisis is solved?
We can start running spacecraft on birkeland currents so they need no extra fuel?
We can start colonizing the solar system and the universe?
Wow, when will practical applications occur?
Bloody great question there sport!

EARLY FINDINGS FROM TETHERED SATELLITE MISSION
POINT TO REVAMPING OF SPACE PHYSICS THEORIES


Quote:
Numerous space physics and plasma theories are being
revised or overturned by data gathered during the Tethered
Satellite System Reflight (TSS-1R) experiments on Space
Shuttle Columbia's STS-75 mission last March.

Models, accepted by scientists for more than 30 years,
are incorrect and must be rewritten. This assessment follows
analysis by a joint U.S.-Italian Tethered Satellite
investigating team of the information gathered during the mission.
you ready?

Quote:
"Perhaps the most significant finding," Stone said, "is
that tether currents proved to be up to three times greater
than existing theoretical models predicted prior to the
mission. With the amount of power generated being directly
proportional to the current, this bodes well for
technological applications."

"Reversing the direction of current flow puts the system
into an electric-motor mode," Stone explained. This harnessed
energy could furnish thrust for reboosting a space station,
satellite or Shuttle in a decaying orbit.
So yeah, why haven't they?

hint...

It becomes an unlimited resource unlike oil.

Just ask the Germans and Japanese in the '40s.

you seem smart, I'm sure you'll work it out!
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Old 23rd December 2019, 12:47 AM   #1023
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also interesting to note from the above paper and it's application to the plasma that surrounds the comet.

Quote:
The tethered satellite researchers noted that, at that
point, "a sudden jump" took place in the level of current
flow, while the satellite's potential (voltage) dropped
several hundred volts. They traced this effect to the small
amount of gas, released from the thrusters, becoming ionized
in the vicinity of the satellite. A greater, more efficient
current flow was observed. "The effect of neutral-gas ionization
is not taken into consideration by existing theoretical models
of current collection in the ionosphere," Stone said.

Also, for the first time ever, the high voltage plasma
sheath and wake of a high-voltage satellite moving rapidly in
the ionosphere was measured. "This is virtually impossible to
study in a laboratory and is difficult to model
mathematically
," Stone said.
Oh no the maths is difficult, see http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=12932793#post12932793
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Old 23rd December 2019, 01:10 AM   #1024
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Bloody great question there sport!

EARLY FINDINGS FROM TETHERED SATELLITE MISSION
POINT TO REVAMPING OF SPACE PHYSICS THEORIES




you ready?



So yeah, why haven't they?

hint...

It becomes an unlimited resource unlike oil.

Just ask the Germans and Japanese in the '40s.

you seem smart, I'm sure you'll work it out!
So. No they have not.
They *claim* things but have no working project and the SAFIRE project is still just a really expensive and inefficient lightbulb.
Come back to us when something actually *works*
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Old 23rd December 2019, 01:36 AM   #1025
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
So. No they have not.
They *claim* things but have no working project and the SAFIRE project is still just a really expensive and inefficient lightbulb.
Come back to us when something actually *works*
How do you make a sun in the lab?

Quote:
They then filled the ball with a plasma made from helium gas and drove an electrical current through it, which created a force on the plasma that made it spin around the dipole.
So, it's ok for some but not other???

Would you like your foot back, LS?
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Old 23rd December 2019, 02:02 AM   #1026
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
How do you make a sun in the lab?



So, it's ok for some but not other???

Would you like your foot back, LS?
It's called a hydrogen fusion bomb. While it's not containable yet at least we know that reaction actually works and we have found a use for it.
Maybe not the most ethical use, but its practical and has been demonstrated repeatedly to follow the actual theory.

So totally unlike all electric universe stuff which has no coherent theory and no practical applications or even functional experiments.
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Old 23rd December 2019, 06:41 AM   #1027
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
Really? So they got an electric sun model running without putting in outside electricity?

Are you saying they has perfected fusion in the lab?

I reads the PR as they
Quote:
drove an electrical current through it
Sorta kinda like SAFIRE but different.

No transmutation thru plasma double layer formation as far as I know in the PR, SAFIRE have.

How would they relate to the ELECTRIC SUN model one wonders quietly.

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Old 23rd December 2019, 08:29 AM   #1028
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Are you saying they has perfected fusion in the lab?

I reads the PR as they

Sorta kinda like SAFIRE but different.

No transmutation thru plasma double layer formation as far as I know in the PR, SAFIRE have.

How would they relate to the ELECTRIC SUN model one wonders quietly.

Yes, they have perfected fusion in the lab. Both every single particle collider and a certain set of nuclear weapons depend on that working.
But it's ok you not knowing those things work, keeping up with current science does not seem to be your strongest point given how often you misinterpret or outright misquote everything.

And in opposition to the SAFIRE 'model' fusion actually gives more energy then is put in. In fact it gives so much more we can only do it in small amounts or in large enough amounts to blow up islands at the moment.
But at least it GIVES energy.

Unless of course your EC 'scientists' have actually gotten their model to work without plugging it into a mains. But let's not hold our breath for that.
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Old 23rd December 2019, 08:41 AM   #1029
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
Yes, they have perfected fusion in the lab. Both every single particle collider and a certain set of nuclear weapons depend on that working.
But it's ok you not knowing those things work, keeping up with current science does not seem to be your strongest point given how often you misinterpret or outright misquote everything.

And in opposition to the SAFIRE 'model' fusion actually gives more energy then is put in. In fact it gives so much more we can only do it in small amounts or in large enough amounts to blow up islands at the moment.
But at least it GIVES energy.

Unless of course your EC 'scientists' have actually gotten their model to work without plugging it into a mains. But let's not hold our breath for that.
The thing is that Sol88 is not very good with numbers.

So if SAFIRE can produce one fusion reaction per century per 1 km3, that proves (to him) that the mainstream is RONG!

I doubt even Sol88 is waiting for a SAFIRE-powered motor to drop into his Hilux ute ...
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Old 23rd December 2019, 01:32 PM   #1030
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
Yes, they have perfected fusion in the lab. Both every single particle collider and a certain set of nuclear weapons depend on that working.
But it's ok you not knowing those things work, keeping up with current science does not seem to be your strongest point given how often you misinterpret or outright misquote everything.

And in opposition to the SAFIRE 'model' fusion actually gives more energy then is put in. In fact it gives so much more we can only do it in small amounts or in large enough amounts to blow up islands at the moment.
But at least it GIVES energy.

Unless of course your EC 'scientists' have actually gotten their model to work without plugging it into a mains. But let's not hold our breath for that.

Nope, the mainstream
Quote:

Learn to read sport.
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Old 23rd December 2019, 03:13 PM   #1031
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
Really? So they got an electric sun model running without putting in outside electricity?
Same as your mob.

If the Sun is nuclear fusion powered bomb and this is what the mainstream are modelling, then how in the name of Martha are they making the plasma (Helium) and rotating the magnetic field?

https://www.quantamagazine.org/suns-...tory-20190729/
Quote:
Not just used electricity but drove the current.
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Old 23rd December 2019, 03:29 PM   #1032
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Talking about driving an electric current...


Polarisation of a small-scale cometary plasma environment
Particle-in-cell modelling of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko


Quote:
Conclusions. The ambipolar and polarisation electric fields both have a significant influence on the motion of cometary ions. This demonstrates the importance of space charge effects in comet plasma physics.
But the negatively charged dusty plasma that is the “jets” is neglected?

That dust is the mass coming from comets, seems via electron impact ionisation. The two fields mentioned above would have a say in things plasma wise.

I’ll give it real good read over chrissie but the “space charge” thing is a goodie.

Also

Quote:
This creates a charge separation,
Quote:
, and the polarisation electric field that is driven by charged separation due to the vastly different trajectories followed by the electrons and ions.
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Last edited by Sol88; 23rd December 2019 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 23rd December 2019, 03:48 PM   #1033
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Polarisation of a small-scale cometary plasma environment

Quote:
3.2. Density structures

It can be seen in panels b and d that field aligned structures have formed in the plasma.
Quote:
Furthermore, the extent of the density structure is a few hundred metres in this simulation (Fig. 1c), whereas the nucleus radius scales down to only 5m in the simulated system.

Thus, the density structure affected by the electric field is much larger than the nucleus.

If simultaneous measurements could be made at different locations around a comet, we would expect a density structure that is similar to what we have simulated, to be observed with a local perturbation near the nucleus that is not accounted for here.
You still kick’n ‘bout tusenfem?
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Old 23rd December 2019, 08:54 PM   #1034
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Same as your mob.

If the Sun is nuclear fusion powered bomb and this is what the mainstream are modelling, then how in the name of Martha are they making the plasma (Helium) and rotating the magnetic field?


https://www.quantamagazine.org/suns-...tory-20190729/


Not just used electricity but drove the current.
Powder, not gas: A safer, more effective way to create a star on Earth

Ohh, wait how do they produce the plasma to start with?

Ahhh, they also drive it with an electric current!

SAFIRE ain't special

Everyone is using electricity and no one is using hydrogen bombs in labs on Earth!
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Old 24th December 2019, 09:03 AM   #1035
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As if further evidence were needed, Sol88 once again provides demonstrations of an inability to understand numbers.

Sad.
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Old 2nd January 2020, 07:43 AM   #1036
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Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
As if further evidence were needed, Sol88 once again provides demonstrations of an inability to understand numbers.

Sad.
Or pretty much anything else to do with science! That is the attraction of electric universe, you see! You can be as dumb as a bag of spanners, yet still meet like-minded people to share your loony ideas with, without ever having to understand any science whatsoever! Win-win.
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Old 2nd January 2020, 08:04 AM   #1037
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
anywhoo back to the ELECTRIC COMET

Polarisation of a small-scale cometary plasma environment

one problem though,



So unable to reproduce the cometary double layers.

But



Oh electromagnetic! like electrodynamics, as I've said.

and

jonesdave116 the paper contains the answer to your question on the direction of the electric fields and how they affect the + and - charges.

They must include the negatively charged dust!

Negatively charged nano-grains at 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko



thought you said only ions leave the comet, JD, as this was the way your electrostatic field pointed.

Seems you been approximating and simplifying stuff till it roughly fits the dirtysnowball model, the first and only quantitative model of comets!

No ice to sublimate at 3au champ!
Plenty of ice. As observed. You still haven't got a clue what you are talking about, eh? Will things ever change? And I did not say only ions leave the comet. That is yet another lie. It is bloody obvious that electrons and ions leave the comet. Do you not read the papers? Or is it that you are incapable of understanding them? Too many long words, and maths? And none of it in crayon?
What I said, as you would understand if you read the papers, and understood them, is that the electrons are retarded (much like EU cultists!), and ions are accelerated. This is to preserve quasi-neutrality. Heard of that? I doubt you understand it, even if you have. It really isn't a difficult concept.
And negatively charged dust is pretty much an irrelevance. Most of it is too massive to be affected by an electric field, and won't become charged until it is some distance from the nucleus anyway.
You seem to forget - your 'model' has failed totally, and you cannot explain that. And continue to run away from it. There were no electric discharges! There was no rock. There was ice and plenty of volatiles. All contradicting your failed woo. How about dealing with that, before talking about things that are of no relevance to said failed woo, and are beyond your comprehension anyway?
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Old 2nd January 2020, 08:16 AM   #1038
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Same as your mob.

If the Sun is nuclear fusion powered bomb and this is what the mainstream are modelling, then how in the name of Martha are they making the plasma (Helium) and rotating the magnetic field?


https://www.quantamagazine.org/suns-...tory-20190729/


Not just used electricity but drove the current.
Oh dear! So few words, so much ignorance! How do you make He? Do you know how the p-p chain works? Seriously? How could anybody who is even average at high school level physics ask such a question, and not be embarrassed? Should I draw a picture? It won't be in crayon unfortunately, but I can approximate that in Photoshop, if it helps! Ye Gods.
And rotating a magnetic field? Well......big yellow thing has a magnetic field. Big yellow thing rotates.......... getting the picture? Need another drawing?
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Old 8th January 2020, 06:26 PM   #1039
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
Plenty of ice. As observed. You still haven't got a clue what you are talking about, eh? Will things ever change? And I did not say only ions leave the comet. That is yet another lie. It is bloody obvious that electrons and ions leave the comet. Do you not read the papers? Or is it that you are incapable of understanding them? Too many long words, and maths? And none of it in crayon?
What I said, as you would understand if you read the papers, and understood them, is that the electrons are retarded (much like EU cultists!), and ions are accelerated. This is to preserve quasi-neutrality. Heard of that? I doubt you understand it, even if you have. It really isn't a difficult concept.
And negatively charged dust is pretty much an irrelevance. Most of it is too massive to be affected by an electric field, and won't become charged until it is some distance from the nucleus anyway
.
You seem to forget - your 'model' has failed totally, and you cannot explain that. And continue to run away from it. There were no electric discharges! There was no rock. There was ice and plenty of volatiles. All contradicting your failed woo. How about dealing with that, before talking about things that are of no relevance to said failed woo, and are beyond your comprehension anyway?
Film by Christian Stangl
www.christianstangl.at

The Comet

Sublimation.. what a crock!

Quote:
There was no rock.
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Old 9th January 2020, 04:46 PM   #1040
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Interesting see the dust and its path thru our field of vision.

Quote:
And negatively charged dust is pretty much an irrelevance. Most of it is too massive to be affected by an electric field, and won't become charged until it is some distance from the nucleus anyway.
jonesdave116
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