|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
![]() |
#81 |
"más divertido"
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 22,779
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#82 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 27,249
|
Is there some reason to believe that Epstein's sundial was anything but decorative, and that he was any more competent at setting up a sundial than he was in other things?
|
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver) Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard) |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#83 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Suomi
Posts: 20,222
|
If you look at Turku Cathedral on Google, it is absolutely square with North.
You might already know that Christian churches are generally built going from west to east, with the main entrance always in the West. The nave and altar are in the East. In older churches the North side tends to be devoid of windows, or if there are some,they tend to be small or behind the pulpit in the North West side (behind the priest/pastor). This is because it was believed the devil lurked in the north side and that was where he came in and that it was safe to have a window behind the pastor. Graves face feet to the east, so come resurrection day, you'll be facing Jesus rising in the East. The pastors are laid to rest in the opposite direction so the congregation can face their pastor as they all arise from the graves together on Judgment day. Interestingly, I note the door to Epstein's Temple is approached from the West or appears barred from the West (it is painted on but looks realistic). Maybe you are not to enter from the West. I wonder if actually the main door is in the east, which one would expect if is the temple is the antithesis to Christianity. The animal/birdlike sculptures might be placed on the west roof to keep watch the Christian elements away. Rather like Christian angels keeping watch on top of churches. Just saying. |
__________________
Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder, vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på! |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#84 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Suomi
Posts: 20,222
|
|
__________________
Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder, vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på! |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#85 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 4,813
|
Epstein was an opportunistic financial guy and probably swindler and blackmailer. If he was the only one to rise up from nothing to become wealthy in the time-span of 1995 to 2005 it would be strange, but the fact is that he was just one of hundreds who realized the FEC, the FTC, and the banks were not paying attention, and handing out NINJA loans like cheap candy. Had I known this was possible I would have done the same thing.
All of the people he met, all of the people who frequented his parties and his island cannot be called his friends. Some of them certainly can but most can be found in the society pages in photographs of other wealthy individuals who throw massive elegant parties and invite A-list celebrities and people of note. And by the way, while you're on this board you should ask some of our scientists if their work is well funded, and if they'd go to a party full of rich people if it meant a chance to get an endowment or a grant for their work. None of them would- knowingly - hangout with a billionaire pedophile, but I haven't met a research scientist who doesn't have an eye out for extra money. My problem with the Satanic line of nonsense is that it's pedestrian cut & paste CTism. There is no real investigation but just dressing up old CT's with Epstein accouterments and then pretending it's new proof of a failed CT. You list the well-known names but who else hung out with Epstein and Maxwell? How much influence did they have, and I'm not talking theoretical Clinton BS, I'm talking people who can pick up a phone and shut down an FBI or DoJ investigation. I only ask because that is a very short list of people. I won't hold my breath for an answer because that requires actual research, which is work, and CTist never do the hard work. Soon Maxwell will be in the news again as she "comes forward". Her people have already reached out to favorable media outlets and she will discuss the trouble with his royal highness, but not much else. For the record, a few years ago after a TED Talk Epstein had lunch with Bill Gates and Bezos at an Indian Restaurant around the corner from where I work, and since I eat there too I'm obviously part of Epstein's cult. |
__________________
Disingenuous Piranha |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#86 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Republic of Ireland
Posts: 21,200
|
|
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#87 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 3,843
|
|
__________________
Fortuna Faveat Fatuis |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#88 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#89 |
Safely Ignored
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,779
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#90 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#91 |
Quixoticist
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: ON Canada
Posts: 3,473
|
|
__________________
"Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#92 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 3,843
|
|
__________________
Fortuna Faveat Fatuis |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#93 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,465
|
I actually know to satanists they wanted nothing to do with Him, they think satin is the anti establishment anti Religion God of anarchy. They are Anarchist not pedifiles.
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#94 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#95 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3,485
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#96 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#97 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,950
|
Epstein also had a face. You know who else has a face? SATAN!
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#98 |
Safely Ignored
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,779
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#99 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#100 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,798
|
|
__________________
Zensmack (LastChild, Laughing Assassin, RazetheFlag, Wastrel, TruthbyDecree) - Working his way up the sock puppet chain, trying to overtake P'Doh. Or, are they the same? Quote me where I said conspiracists use evidence. - mchapman |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#101 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Central City, Colorado, USA
Posts: 9,998
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#102 |
The Clarity Is Devastating
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Betwixt
Posts: 17,274
|
There's no reason to align a sundial with magnetic north. That might have happened by accident if the builder didn't know about magnetic deviation and so aligned the dial with magnetic north thinking it was true north.
A more likely reason to "misalign" a sundial is if you want it to read the approximate time zone time rather than the local solar time, at a longitude that isn't centered within its time zone. (That's a crude way to adjust; a certain mathematical distortion of the entire dial works better. A sundial can be very accurate, but with modern decorative sundials, you're lucky if the angle of the gnomon is even right for the latitude the dial is located in, let alone being able to reconcile solar time with time zone or apply the equation of time between apparent solar time and mean solar time.) |
__________________
A zømbie once bit my sister... |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#103 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 4,813
|
The OP of this thread a fine example of the CTist mind-set.
Here we have a REAL conspiracy brought to light in a pair of HIGH PROFILE court cases generated by the FBI investigation, and documented by the outstanding work done by the Miami Herald. The case ongoing, the FBI and DoJ continue their investigations, nothing is resolved, and there is no "official story" or final report. Epstein is dead. The circumstances surrounding his death make for a CTist crack-pipe filler. Epstein has been on my radar since his Florida trial. The known facts are vile and disgusting. The rumors surrounding him and Maxwell, which I will not drag into this conversation because they are unproven, are the stuff of nightmares. I will say that none of those rumors involve Satanism. In spite of all that is known the CTist choose to chase rumor, speculation, and innuendo trying to make them true. Not out of a need to get the facts but from a desire to have their world views validated. The Epstein CT's are already out of control, depending on what your source is (The Sun, NYPost, National Enquirer) Epstein was Clinton's go-to buddy, Trump's rape partner, or a Mossad Agent. All of this before the FBI is anywhere near closing the book on this case. I need to point out that what we're seeing here is a similar environment of CT speculation which forced the Warren Commission to rush its investigation of the JFK Assassination. While the basic facts are correct (Oswald acted alone) they didn't have time to answer all the open questions as well as they would have like to because Mark Lane et al were already fielding a counter version of events that we've been left with for over 50 years. |
__________________
Disingenuous Piranha |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#104 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Posts: 30,608
|
That takes me to the "temple", before the golden dome blew off.
I find the sundial at 18.299837, -64.825603. I don't see directions marked on it, just times. The directions are on the compass rose, at 18.302541, -64.823517. It does appear to align with North. Two separate installations. Note the "N" on the compass rose appears to be on its side. That's probably so it looks right from the nearby main house. The sundial is further away. ETA: Decent picture of the sundial in this article. No compass points on it, just Roman numerals for times. ETAA: Oops, forgot the link. Added. And here's a crackpot tweet with one of the compass rose. |
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#105 |
The Clarity Is Devastating
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Betwixt
Posts: 17,274
|
The sundial has a sunburst design painted (or inlaid, or something) on it, with sixteen "rays." Eight of them (the ones aligned with the dial's compass points, whether or not it's aligned with true N-S) have straight edges and the other eight in between have curvy flame-like edges. The sun's face is serene, with an art style similar to what I've often seen on the painted artwork of the sunrise-sunset or moon phase dials of antique grandfather clocks. It looks about as satanic as There are international illegal drug rings because people will pay a lot of money for illegal drugs. There are international illicit sex rings because people will pay a lot of money for illicit sex. There are international military weapons rings because people will pay a lot for military weapons. How much will people pay to worship Satan? You could buy out an entire Hot Topic for the price of one small drug, sex, or weapons deal. |
__________________
A zømbie once bit my sister... |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#106 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,284
|
A satanic ring? To rule them all?
That's just old legends and fairy tales to amuse the children, said the miller. |
__________________
I don't need to fight to prove I'm right. - Baba O'Riley |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#107 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 4,813
|
Hypothetical explanation of the sun dial and other "works of art" at the island:
Money Laundering. It wasn't all just real estate. |
__________________
Disingenuous Piranha |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#108 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Cali Four Neea
Posts: 1,345
|
Epstein’s “in” to wealth and power was as a young Bear Sterns executive who used his apparently genuine mathematical “genius” - taking advantage of Reagan-era deregulation - to come up with all kinds of ways to make obscene money on Wall Street. His relationship with Les Wexner and the way he cultivated his own mystique (“the talented Mr. Epstein” who only took on billionaires as clients for his wealth management firm), combined with his shrewdness in funding top scientists, cultivating ties to top politicians, and establishing a reputation as a leading New York “socialite” who knew everyone who was Somebody, all served to make Epstein someone people were wary of asking too many questions about, whether it was the source of his wealth or what all of those girls were doing with him on that island he owned...
Nothing Satanic about it, unless by “Satanic” you simply mean “evil”, a sentiment with which I can’t disagree. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#109 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 3,843
|
|
__________________
Fortuna Faveat Fatuis |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#110 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 3,843
|
|
__________________
Fortuna Faveat Fatuis |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#111 |
Safely Ignored
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,779
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#112 |
"más divertido"
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 22,779
|
It doesn’t help that many preachers and people like Alex Jones have global platforms from which they declare all enemies of the right (like Hillary Clinton) to be literal demons.
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#113 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,465
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#114 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 3,843
|
|
__________________
Fortuna Faveat Fatuis |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#115 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,443
|
|
__________________
"A closed mouth gathers no feet" "Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke "It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite You can't make up anything anymore. The world itself is a satire. All you're doing is recording it. Art Buchwald |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#116 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,443
|
|
__________________
"A closed mouth gathers no feet" "Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke "It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite You can't make up anything anymore. The world itself is a satire. All you're doing is recording it. Art Buchwald |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#117 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: 49 North
Posts: 4,531
|
I think this is an organised no-sex ring!
(OK some of the members of the no-sex ring may have had sex but I think the evidence suggests that the sex was opportunistic as opposed to organised. The criticism is that no-sex was prioritised over sex, and the sex stuff was regarded by the no-sex ring as unimportant and swept under the carpet.) |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#118 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,881
|
The Satanists I have ever met have been gentle respectable souls with rather sedate sexual habits so if Epstein had been running a global Satanic ring things might not have been so bad.
As it is he procured children for rich men to rape and largely got away with it because powerful people winked at his activities. |
__________________
The non-theoretical character of metaphysics would not be in itself a defect; all arts have this non-theoretical character without thereby losing their high value for personal as well as for social life. The danger lies in the deceptive character of metaphysics; it gives the illusion of knowledge without actually giving any knowledge. This is the reason why we reject it. - Rudolf Carnap "Philosophy and Logical Syntax" |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#119 |
Safely Ignored
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,779
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#120 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Suomi
Posts: 20,222
|
You are missing what is in plain sight. The ONLY source of Epstein's great wealth was via Wexner's Victoria's Secrets. The guy gave Epstein Power of Attorney, together with his New York mansion and other estates. He claims he was swindled BUT why hand over Power of Attorney (=carte blanche in your affairs? This guy was a nobody. (Or sometime 'pianist' [careful], 'scientist', 'financier'.)
All the young teens arriving at the mansion could therefore be explained away as being there to 'audition' for lingerie shows. How convenient for Wexner, Maxwell and Epstein. Fact is, it has long been claimed Czech-born Robert Maxwell was a signed up Mossad (read CIA) agent. It is likely Epstein is something similar - see the Maxwell connection. He was funded by Mossadd/CIA in a mass blackmailing foreign-interference operation. Prince Andrew knew Maxwell from Oxford, so no doubt she exploited that connection for all it was worth. With hidden cameras in every room it is likely there are a lot of nervous statesmen, royalty, ex-prime ministers, POTUS and ex-POTUS, scientists, attorneys out there wondering whether they are on tape. Forget the salacious sex stories, the real story is who is behind this international ring, undermining public morals and blackmailing the rich and famous. |
__________________
Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder, vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på! |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | |
|
|