Did Epstein run a World Satanic Ring?

[carlitos]

Originally Posted by Myriad

Horizontal sundials are often round, and must be oriented to geographical north and south in order to work properly. Including compass rose points is the most natural thing in the world. It gives the dial a function, local orientation, that visitors can appreciate even if it's cloudy.

Bermuda is parallel with the East coast, so magnetic north would be angled west of true north. Contractor with a pocket compass > Satanic conspiracy.

[bruto]

Is there some reason to believe that Epstein's sundial was anything but decorative, and that he was any more competent at setting up a sundial than he was in other things?

[Vixen]

If you look at Turku Cathedral on Google, it is absolutely square with North.


You might already know that Christian churches are generally built going from west to east, with the main entrance always in the West. The nave and altar are in the East. In older churches the North side tends to be devoid of windows, or if there are some,they tend to be small or behind the pulpit in the North West side (behind the priest/pastor). This is because it was believed the devil lurked in the north side and that was where he came in and that it was safe to have a window behind the pastor.

Graves face feet to the east, so come resurrection day, you'll be facing Jesus rising in the East. The pastors are laid to rest in the opposite direction so the congregation can face their pastor as they all arise from the graves together on Judgment day.

Interestingly, I note the door to Epstein's Temple is approached from the West or appears barred from the West (it is painted on but looks realistic). Maybe you are not to enter from the West.

I wonder if actually the main door is in the east, which one would expect if is the temple is the antithesis to Christianity. The animal/birdlike sculptures might be placed on the west roof to keep watch the Christian elements away. Rather like Christian angels keeping watch on top of churches.

Just saying.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by bruto

Is there some reason to believe that Epstein's sundial was anything but decorative, and that he was any more competent at setting up a sundial than he was in other things?

Note the altar stone? What did they do in the Bible at the altar in the olden days?

Hmmm?

[Axxman300]

Epstein was an opportunistic financial guy and probably swindler and blackmailer. If he was the only one to rise up from nothing to become wealthy in the time-span of 1995 to 2005 it would be strange, but the fact is that he was just one of hundreds who realized the FEC, the FTC, and the banks were not paying attention, and handing out NINJA loans like cheap candy. Had I known this was possible I would have done the same thing.

All of the people he met, all of the people who frequented his parties and his island cannot be called his friends. Some of them certainly can but most can be found in the society pages in photographs of other wealthy individuals who throw massive elegant parties and invite A-list celebrities and people of note.

And by the way, while you're on this board you should ask some of our scientists if their work is well funded, and if they'd go to a party full of rich people if it meant a chance to get an endowment or a grant for their work. None of them would- knowingly - hangout with a billionaire pedophile, but I haven't met a research scientist who doesn't have an eye out for extra money.

My problem with the Satanic line of nonsense is that it's pedestrian cut & paste CTism. There is no real investigation but just dressing up old CT's with Epstein accouterments and then pretending it's new proof of a failed CT. You list the well-known names but who else hung out with Epstein and Maxwell? How much influence did they have, and I'm not talking theoretical Clinton BS, I'm talking people who can pick up a phone and shut down an FBI or DoJ investigation. I only ask because that is a very short list of people. I won't hold my breath for an answer because that requires actual research, which is work, and CTist never do the hard work.

Soon Maxwell will be in the news again as she "comes forward". Her people have already reached out to favorable media outlets and she will discuss the trouble with his royal highness, but not much else.

For the record, a few years ago after a TED Talk Epstein had lunch with Bill Gates and Bezos at an Indian Restaurant around the corner from where I work, and since I eat there too I'm obviously part of Epstein's cult.

[abaddon]

Originally Posted by Vixen

Note the altar stone? What did they do in the Bible at the altar in the olden days?

Hmmm?

Ummmm. You realise that the bible is fiction, right? Right?

[Cosmic Yak]

Originally Posted by Vixen

Witnesses who claim Epstein had entourages of thirty or so. 'Sex slave' Chantau Davies claims she procured at least fifty of her friends 'between 14 -16' for Epstein and Virginia says something similar, but ages unspecified.

All riiiight, so Epstein liked young flesh. So what? He had the money to attract them, whether by grooming or by a straightforward commercial deal.

But wait!

These girls were not just for his own use. This is where it becomes sinister: he was supplying Bill Clinton, Donald Trump and Prince Andrew - allegedly - amongst another 'one thousand names', according to an unsealed court deposition.

What?

Makes Dan Brown look seriously lightweight in comparison.

None of this has anything to do with Satanism.
Perhaps I'm not making myself clear.
DO YOU HAVE ANY EVIDENCE THAT EPSTEIN, THE CLINTONS, THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND PRINCE ANDREW AND THE REST OF THE BRITISH ROYAL FAMILY ARE SATANISTS?

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by Vixen

Well something was adhering his circle of teenage girl lovers together and ring fencing them from investigation or prosecution.

What part of "this guy was insanely rich" has you confused?

[Jack by the hedge]

Originally Posted by Axxman300

… For the record, a few years ago after a TED Talk Epstein had lunch with Bill Gates and Bezos at an Indian Restaurant around the corner from where I work, and since I eat there too I'm obviously part of Epstein's cult.

OMG first the Satanist pedophiles take over pizza and now they want to despoil Indian food too. This is a step too far. Something must be done.

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge

OMG first the Satanist pedophiles take over pizza and now they want to despoil Indian food too. This is a step too far. Something must be done.

Just wait until they take over Italian food.

[eerok]

Originally Posted by Belz...

Just wait until they take over Italian food.

Bada bing, bada boom ... satanism.

[Cosmic Yak]

Originally Posted by eerok

Bada bing, bada boom ... satanism.

Sliced pizza = sundial.
Pepper grinder = obelisk.
Case closed.

[Crazy Chainsaw]

I actually know to satanists they wanted nothing to do with Him, they think satin is the anti establishment anti Religion God of anarchy. They are Anarchist not pedifiles.

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw

I actually know to satanists they wanted nothing to do with Him, they think satin is the anti establishment anti Religion God of anarchy. They are Anarchist not pedifiles.

What's pro-establishment? Cotton?

[Pope130]

Originally Posted by Belz...

What's pro-establishment? Cotton?

Polyester, from "BIG TEXTILE".

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by Pope130

Polyester, from "BIG TEXTILE".

I guess King Cotton really is dead.

[Porpoise of Life]

Epstein also had a face. You know who else has a face? SATAN!

[Jack by the hedge]

Originally Posted by Vixen

If you look at Turku Cathedral on Google, it is absolutely square with North.

I'm going to guess that when they built it 700 years ago they didn't choose a magnetic compass to find North.

I'm going to further guess that whoever built Epstein's giant representation of a magnetic compass aligned it with an actual magnetic compass.

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life

Epstein also had a face. You know who else has a face? SATAN!

How would you know? Ever met him?

I've had several board meetings with him and, you know, aside from the fact that he's a bit of a dick, he is also quite faceless. The open wound he has instead is one of his more appealing features.

[Disbelief]

Originally Posted by Vixen

His buddies included the Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, Bill Clinton, Trump, Prince Andrew and a whole long list of scientists, who found him shallow but hey, here's a multi billionaire who could help sponsor their next project, paper or research for a doctorate. He dined with Dr. Stephen Hawkings, Pinker, Dawson, Oliver Sacks, Stephen Jay Gould - the list goes on and on.

But who was this guy? How did he earn such bring bucks when truth be told he was mediocre (just one client? Really?) and the scientist community found him shallow and his scientific knowledge superficial.

What next, you'll complain the Kardashians are popular too? It's America, people make or fake it all the time for no particular reason that we can fathom.

[CORed]

Originally Posted by Belz...

Just wait until they take over Italian food.

It'll never happen. Italian food is firmly under the control of the Mafia, and they're all Catholics.

[Myriad]

There's no reason to align a sundial with magnetic north. That might have happened by accident if the builder didn't know about magnetic deviation and so aligned the dial with magnetic north thinking it was true north.

A more likely reason to "misalign" a sundial is if you want it to read the approximate time zone time rather than the local solar time, at a longitude that isn't centered within its time zone.

(That's a crude way to adjust; a certain mathematical distortion of the entire dial works better. A sundial can be very accurate, but with modern decorative sundials, you're lucky if the angle of the gnomon is even right for the latitude the dial is located in, let alone being able to reconcile solar time with time zone or apply the equation of time between apparent solar time and mean solar time.)

[Axxman300]

The OP of this thread a fine example of the CTist mind-set.

Here we have a REAL conspiracy brought to light in a pair of HIGH PROFILE court cases generated by the FBI investigation, and documented by the outstanding work done by the Miami Herald. The case ongoing, the FBI and DoJ continue their investigations, nothing is resolved, and there is no "official story" or final report.

Epstein is dead. The circumstances surrounding his death make for a CTist crack-pipe filler.

Epstein has been on my radar since his Florida trial. The known facts are vile and disgusting. The rumors surrounding him and Maxwell, which I will not drag into this conversation because they are unproven, are the stuff of nightmares. I will say that none of those rumors involve Satanism.

In spite of all that is known the CTist choose to chase rumor, speculation, and innuendo trying to make them true. Not out of a need to get the facts but from a desire to have their world views validated. The Epstein CT's are already out of control, depending on what your source is (The Sun, NYPost, National Enquirer) Epstein was Clinton's go-to buddy, Trump's rape partner, or a Mossad Agent. All of this before the FBI is anywhere near closing the book on this case.

I need to point out that what we're seeing here is a similar environment of CT speculation which forced the Warren Commission to rush its investigation of the JFK Assassination. While the basic facts are correct (Oswald acted alone) they didn't have time to answer all the open questions as well as they would have like to because Mark Lane et al were already fielding a counter version of events that we've been left with for over 50 years.

[Trebuchet]

Originally Posted by Vixen

Have a look at it on Google Maps:

18°17'53.6"N 64°49'41.4"W

As you can see it is not fully square with North. AIUI Google Maps have north directly at the top.

That takes me to the "temple", before the golden dome blew off.

I find the sundial at 18.299837, -64.825603. I don't see directions marked on it, just times.
The directions are on the compass rose, at 18.302541, -64.823517. It does appear to align with North. Two separate installations.
Note the "N" on the compass rose appears to be on its side. That's probably so it looks right from the nearby main house. The sundial is further away.

ETA: Decent picture of the sundial in this article. No compass points on it, just Roman numerals for times.
ETAA: Oops, forgot the link. Added. And here's a crackpot tweet with one of the compass rose.

[Myriad]

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

That takes me to the "temple", before the golden dome blew off.

I find the sundial at 18.299837, -64.825603. I don't see directions marked on it, just times.
The directions are on the compass rose, at 18.302541, -64.823517. It does appear to align with North. Two separate installations.
Note the "N" on the compass rose appears to be on its side. That's probably so it looks right from the nearby main house. The sundial is further away.

ETA: Decent picture of the sundial in this article. No compass points on it, just Roman numerals for times.
ETAA: Oops, forgot the link. Added. And here's a crackpot tweet with one of the compass rose.

The sundial has a sunburst design painted (or inlaid, or something) on it, with sixteen "rays." Eight of them (the ones aligned with the dial's compass points, whether or not it's aligned with true N-S) have straight edges and the other eight in between have curvy flame-like edges.

The sun's face is serene, with an art style similar to what I've often seen on the painted artwork of the sunrise-sunset or moon phase dials of antique grandfather clocks. It looks about as satanic as dogs playing poker that picture of Jesus surrounded by little children the Taco Bell logo never mind, it looks less satanic than anything else I can think of.

There are international illegal drug rings because people will pay a lot of money for illegal drugs. There are international illicit sex rings because people will pay a lot of money for illicit sex. There are international military weapons rings because people will pay a lot for military weapons. How much will people pay to worship Satan? You could buy out an entire Hot Topic for the price of one small drug, sex, or weapons deal.

[DevilsAdvocate]

A satanic ring? To rule them all?

That's just old legends and fairy tales to amuse the children, said the miller.

[Axxman300]

Hypothetical explanation of the sun dial and other "works of art" at the island:

Money Laundering.

It wasn't all just real estate.

[Allen773]

Epstein’s “in” to wealth and power was as a young Bear Sterns executive who used his apparently genuine mathematical “genius” - taking advantage of Reagan-era deregulation - to come up with all kinds of ways to make obscene money on Wall Street. His relationship with Les Wexner and the way he cultivated his own mystique (“the talented Mr. Epstein” who only took on billionaires as clients for his wealth management firm), combined with his shrewdness in funding top scientists, cultivating ties to top politicians, and establishing a reputation as a leading New York “socialite” who knew everyone who was Somebody, all served to make Epstein someone people were wary of asking too many questions about, whether it was the source of his wealth or what all of those girls were doing with him on that island he owned...

Nothing Satanic about it, unless by “Satanic” you simply mean “evil”, a sentiment with which I can’t disagree.

[Cosmic Yak]

Originally Posted by Belz...

What's pro-establishment? Cotton?

Originally Posted by Pope130

Polyester, from "BIG TEXTILE".

Originally Posted by Belz...

I guess King Cotton really is dead.

Epstein was a satinist.

[Cosmic Yak]

Originally Posted by CORed

It'll never happen. Italian food is firmly under the control of the Mafia, and they're all Catholics.

Who are actually Satanists, according to Vixen, because of Egyptian obelisks placed in Rome by Romans., who were Masons, and therefore Satanists.

No, I don't get it either. Ask Vixen.

[Jack by the hedge]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

Epstein was a satinist.

He turned me into a newt.

It's like there's a threshold of wickedness beyond which it's no longer enough just to despise someone for the horrible things they did; you need to invent stuff they didn't do so you can despise them even more.

[carlitos]

It doesn’t help that many preachers and people like Alex Jones have global platforms from which they declare all enemies of the right (like Hillary Clinton) to be literal demons.

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Originally Posted by carlitos

It doesn’t help that many preachers and people like Alex Jones have global platforms from which they declare all enemies of the right (like Hillary Clinton) to be literal demons.

Hannity is way worse than Jones he gives hate Mongering respectabillity.

[Cosmic Yak]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

Epstein was a satinist.

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge

He turned me into a newt.

It's like there's a threshold of wickedness beyond which it's no longer enough just to despise someone for the horrible things they did; you need to invent stuff they didn't do so you can despise them even more.

Further proof, as if any was needed, that almost no-one on this forum understands my humour.

ETA: Except for Bruto. Thanks!

[EHocking]

Originally Posted by Myriad

Oh, and by the way, the "12" on a sundial stands for noon, but NOT for midnight. Can you figure out why not?

Even stopped clock is not correct twice a day?

[EHocking]

Originally Posted by Vixen

You have forgotten one small detail. How many organised illegal sex rings do you know of that go on for decades and which involve the most senior public figures?

The Catholic Church springs to mind.

[Planigale]

Originally Posted by EHocking

The Catholic Church springs to mind.

I think this is an organised no-sex ring!

(OK some of the members of the no-sex ring may have had sex but I think the evidence suggests that the sex was opportunistic as opposed to organised. The criticism is that no-sex was prioritised over sex, and the sex stuff was regarded by the no-sex ring as unimportant and swept under the carpet.)

[Robin]

The Satanists I have ever met have been gentle respectable souls with rather sedate sexual habits so if Epstein had been running a global Satanic ring things might not have been so bad.

As it is he procured children for rich men to rape and largely got away with it because powerful people winked at his activities.

[Jack by the hedge]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

Further proof, as if any was needed, that almost no-one on this forum understands my humour.

You aramid fools.

I just misread you. I've cottoned on now.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by Axxman300

Epstein was an opportunistic financial guy and probably swindler and blackmailer. If he was the only one to rise up from nothing to become wealthy in the time-span of 1995 to 2005 it would be strange, but the fact is that he was just one of hundreds who realized the FEC, the FTC, and the banks were not paying attention, and handing out NINJA loans like cheap candy. Had I known this was possible I would have done the same thing.

All of the people he met, all of the people who frequented his parties and his island cannot be called his friends. Some of them certainly can but most can be found in the society pages in photographs of other wealthy individuals who throw massive elegant parties and invite A-list celebrities and people of note.

And by the way, while you're on this board you should ask some of our scientists if their work is well funded, and if they'd go to a party full of rich people if it meant a chance to get an endowment or a grant for their work. None of them would- knowingly - hangout with a billionaire pedophile, but I haven't met a research scientist who doesn't have an eye out for extra money.

My problem with the Satanic line of nonsense is that it's pedestrian cut & paste CTism. There is no real investigation but just dressing up old CT's with Epstein accouterments and then pretending it's new proof of a failed CT. You list the well-known names but who else hung out with Epstein and Maxwell? How much influence did they have, and I'm not talking theoretical Clinton BS, I'm talking people who can pick up a phone and shut down an FBI or DoJ investigation. I only ask because that is a very short list of people. I won't hold my breath for an answer because that requires actual research, which is work, and CTist never do the hard work.

Soon Maxwell will be in the news again as she "comes forward". Her people have already reached out to favorable media outlets and she will discuss the trouble with his royal highness, but not much else.

For the record, a few years ago after a TED Talk Epstein had lunch with Bill Gates and Bezos at an Indian Restaurant around the corner from where I work, and since I eat there too I'm obviously part of Epstein's cult.

You are missing what is in plain sight. The ONLY source of Epstein's great wealth was via Wexner's Victoria's Secrets. The guy gave Epstein Power of Attorney, together with his New York mansion and other estates. He claims he was swindled BUT why hand over Power of Attorney (=carte blanche in your affairs? This guy was a nobody. (Or sometime 'pianist' [careful], 'scientist', 'financier'.)

All the young teens arriving at the mansion could therefore be explained away as being there to 'audition' for lingerie shows. How convenient for Wexner, Maxwell and Epstein.

Fact is, it has long been claimed Czech-born Robert Maxwell was a signed up Mossad (read CIA) agent. It is likely Epstein is something similar - see the Maxwell connection. He was funded by Mossadd/CIA in a mass blackmailing foreign-interference operation. Prince Andrew knew Maxwell from Oxford, so no doubt she exploited that connection for all it was worth.

With hidden cameras in every room it is likely there are a lot of nervous statesmen, royalty, ex-prime ministers, POTUS and ex-POTUS, scientists, attorneys out there wondering whether they are on tape.

Forget the salacious sex stories, the real story is who is behind this international ring, undermining public morals and blackmailing the rich and famous.