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#1 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,805
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Trump: "Make Bribery Legal Again"
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The assault on the rule of law and order from this outlaw fascist regime continues... |
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"As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man." - Matthew 24:37 "And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." - Luke 21:28 |
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#2 |
Lackey
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
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Surely it should be up to the country in which the bribe takes place to decide if it is illegal of not? Perhaps a more sensible way to look at it is to have a law in your country that if someone is accused of bribary in another country you will will allow that country to extradite the CEO and shareholders to stand trial?
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#3 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Nov 2014
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And if the country in question thought human sacrifice was just peachy-keen-dandy we would allow our businesses to start cutting the hearts out of employees on altars?
Your argument is literally the "argument from tradition" fallacy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_tradition |
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"As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man." - Matthew 24:37 "And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." - Luke 21:28 |
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#4 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,714
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The International Anti-Bribery Act makes it illegal in the US for a citizen or corporation to offer a bribe to a public official in another country. It's not just about extradition.
I'm okay with the law, since encouraging corruption overseas is arguably bad for the US. |
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#5 |
Lackey
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Nope it ain't.
And businesses have to accept risk. If the shareholders and CEOs don't want to end up having their beating hearts ripped from their chests then they need to make sure they don't bribe anyone in that country or don't do business with that country. Indeed if the country is so reprehensible the shareholders and CEOs wouldn't want to do business with that country in the first place would they? I'm not against people doing business with whoever they want, I am however against them avoiding risks when they do so. I would probably go one step further. When it was found that people were committing suicide in the factories that were manufacturing Apple products I think Cook and Apple shareholders should have been arrested and charged with something like corporate manslaughter. I dislike intensely how capital owners have insulated themselves from the consequences of their property. By all means outsource your manufacturing of t-shirts to Bangladesh, but when 30 people die in one of the factories that manufacturers your t-shirts because the fire alarms didn't work and the fire exits were kept padlocked you should be held to the same legal liability as if you owned the factory in your country. (The above of course is nothing but a fantasy, there is more chance if me winning the lottery than that ever happening, and I don't play the lottery!) |
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#6 |
Lackey
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I'm aware of the laws we currently have, we have similar in the UK and in most other major economies and we do sometimes successfully prosecute people for it.
Just don't think it makes sense for this to be a crime if the country it takes part in doesn't consider it a crime. It's then nothing but standard business practice for that country, akin to say paying someone an agency fee for an introduction. But if it is a crime in that country the shareholders and CEOs should be held accountable in that country. |
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#7 |
Penultimate Amazing
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#8 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Nov 2014
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"As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man." - Matthew 24:37 "And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." - Luke 21:28 |
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#9 |
Lackey
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I agree but you have to make the owners and the CEOs responsible for what their company does, too often they are insulated because it is "technically" a middle manager who did a particular act. If you want the big bucks and the profit from your property you take the big risks as well.
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#10 |
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"As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man." - Matthew 24:37 "And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." - Luke 21:28 |
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#11 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
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The problem is that bribes are illegal, but still customary, due to corruption.
Some American businesses are complaining that in order to do business in corrupt countries, it's sometimes necessary to bypass local laws and do business via corrupt customs. US law prohibits that kind of "go along to get along" approach. |
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#12 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Detroit
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Who gets to say that corruption is customary in any particular country?
Why, the bribe-paying boss, of course! Silly me, I could have guessed that. |
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Fill the seats of justice with good men; not so absolute in goodness as to forget what human frailty is. -- Thomas Jefferson What region of the earth is not filled with our calamities? -- Virgil |
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#13 |
Penultimate Amazing
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#14 |
Philosopher
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Posts: 6,308
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One minute's enough
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Fill the seats of justice with good men; not so absolute in goodness as to forget what human frailty is. -- Thomas Jefferson What region of the earth is not filled with our calamities? -- Virgil |
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#15 |
Penultimate Amazing
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No, I just mean that there are people in various capacities who examine relative corruption and rule of law between countries, and report on what they see. It's not just a matter of asking the functionary and the businessman.
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#16 |
Philosopher
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Of course, most nations have pious laws against bribery. Lesser Slobovia might start enforcing them in the case of some bloated yankee boss, even demanding -- and getting! -- his extradition to stand trial.
Unless he knew who to bribe in their Justice Ministry. And then in their National Police. Then in their Bureau of Mines, Slavery, and Pious Reforms. Etc., until he was working for their Immaculate Leader, polishing His golden toilet. |
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Fill the seats of justice with good men; not so absolute in goodness as to forget what human frailty is. -- Thomas Jefferson What region of the earth is not filled with our calamities? -- Virgil |
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#17 |
Philosopher
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Bidnessmen don't pay bribes unless they have to? Well, but, they pretty often want to, when eager to avoid regulations, or to get in ahead of competitors, or to use shoddy materials, or launder money, or put out a contract on a union organizer, or -- well gosh, the wonderful ways of capitalism can always find occasions for being at least a little bit peccant. Or grossly villainous.
Funny, typing about this makes my fingers feel greasy. Believe I'll go wash my hands. |
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Fill the seats of justice with good men; not so absolute in goodness as to forget what human frailty is. -- Thomas Jefferson What region of the earth is not filled with our calamities? -- Virgil |
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#18 |
Penultimate Amazing
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And there it is.
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#19 |
Lackey
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#20 |
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#21 |
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#22 |
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#23 |
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#24 |
Illuminator
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#25 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 345
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Did someone steal all the dictionaries and change the definition of "bribe" to something wholesome while I wasn't looking? Yeah, I'm sure it's just like paying an agency, nothing shady going on here at all, no one will get the short end of the stick in this arrangement.
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#26 |
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"As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man." - Matthew 24:37 "And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." - Luke 21:28 |
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#27 |
Penultimate Amazing
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#28 |
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#29 |
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#30 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2011
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This apparently was one of the beefs Tillerson had with Trump.
Fire/Silk autofill changed "Tillerson" to "fillets." And "beefs" to "needs." And "autofill" to "autism." And "auto-fill" to "signup." |
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#31 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 85,869
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Trump is day-dreaming about all the people who could be paying him big bribes. It's part of his envy of Putin and other autocrats who've become enormously rich collecting bribes.
Now here Trump is POTUS and his profits have been so limited. ![]() |
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#32 |
Penultimate Amazing
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#33 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I pretty much agree with this sentiment. By the way, I think the law, which passed in 1977, restricts payments mostly to foreign officials. I have read that in some cases it was believed the legislation would give U.S. businesses a way to resist paying those bribes. I have also read where it is sometimes a problem is in developing countries that do not have a institutionalized regulatory system. That instead of meeting regulatory requirements, the business instead makes cash payments to various local officials. If they won't do it the deal is dead.
Of course, to my knowledge the Trump administration is typically vague about what they may propose.
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The most recent report I found is from 2017.
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#34 |
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"As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man." - Matthew 24:37 "And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." - Luke 21:28 |
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#35 |
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"As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man." - Matthew 24:37 "And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." - Luke 21:28 |
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#36 |
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#37 |
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"As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man." - Matthew 24:37 "And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." - Luke 21:28 |
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#38 |
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#39 |
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"As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man." - Matthew 24:37 "And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." - Luke 21:28 |
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#40 |
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