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Tags Congressional hearings , donald trump , impeachment , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 7th December 2019, 06:38 PM   #641
smartcooky
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Yeah, they’ve been targeting ads at Andy Kim, NJ 3rd district, whose election was very tight. His is maybe the only vulnerable district in the Philadelphia region so they are trying to rally Trumpers to bully him.
Kim was seated after winning in the 2018 mid-terms. Would he be up for election again in 2020 ?
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Old 7th December 2019, 07:02 PM   #642
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Kim was seated after winning in the 2018 mid-terms. Would he be up for election again in 2020 ?
Representatives only serve for 2 years, senators 6. Reps are always running!
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Old 7th December 2019, 07:27 PM   #643
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Originally Posted by DallasDad View Post
The Senate is compelled to hold a trial upon being presented articles of impeachment from the House, but the Constitution does not provide a time-line. So, theoretically at least, Mitch could just table things for a year or three. However, the point is moot right now, because Mitch has said a trial will happen more or less right away. I'm sure his intention is to make it happen very quickly, so the Senate can vote to dismiss the charges in time to keep the trial from interfering with the 2020 races. [/cynicism]
Actually no he couldn't. Not according to Senate rules. The GOP could theoretically change the rules, but It would also look terrible to the point of absurdity. There is an election in 10 months.

Quote:
Whensoever the Senate shall receive notice from the 170 House of Representatives that managers are appointed on their part to conduct an impeachment against any person and are directed to carry articles of impeachment to the Senate, the Secretary of the Senate shall immediately inform the House of Representatives that the Senate is ready to receive the managers for the purpose of exhibiting such articles of impeachment, agreeably to such notice.
The word "shall" means "must" in legal speak.
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Old 7th December 2019, 09:43 PM   #644
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Indeed, those are the current Senate rules. The Senate has the opportunity to change or affirm the rules at the beginning of each session, and has, under extraordinary circumstances, the option of changing the rules in the middle of a session. The optics would be horrible, but they can change the rules in January when convening for the second session of the 116th Congress. They could adjourn the current session early, in case the House tries to bring articles to the Senate before the end of the year.


I'm not saying this is likely, but if Mitch doesn't care about the optics, he can pull some shenanigans to stall the trial. Historically, Senate trials don't start the day the House submits articles anyway. The articles are acknowledged, and then the tedious business of setting up a schedule begins. Witnesses must be identified and dragged in; absent Senators recalled (or present ones make up emergencies to get called away); the Chief Justice must arrange his schedule, the House needs time to prepare their charges, etc.


It's not instantaneous (and hasn't been in the past), despite the wording of the Senate rules.
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Old 7th December 2019, 11:05 PM   #645
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Excellent CSPAN Book TV on tonight, well worth watching and/or perusing the transcript.

Impeach: Former Acting U.S. Solicitor General Neal Katyal made his case for why he thinks President Trump should be impeached.

Thoughtful lawyer that knows his stuff, brought up things not at the forefront at the moment.

The whole transcript doesn't show at the moment, maybe it isn't up yet.
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Old 8th December 2019, 04:11 AM   #646
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Originally Posted by DallasDad View Post
In my own family, we use "our" to refer to one of my sons, because he has three friends with the same first name. Since we're Anglophiles, we sometimes also use "proper" to mean "our."
As a Brit I don't understand what you mean by using "proper" to mean "our".
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Old 8th December 2019, 06:55 AM   #647
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Trump Retweeted

Kimberley Strassel
@KimStrassel
Still waiting for my fellow members of the media to express their deep outrage and alarm that Intelligence Chair Schiff snooped thru and published phone records of member of the free press. The silence is deafening.

Democrats lecture about dirt-digging, even as they abuse their surveillance powers to demand phone records to smear political rivals.
https://wsj.com/articles/schiffs-sur...8eee549ae63e90 via @WSJ

I wondered how long it would be before media rushed to defend Schiff's indefensible subpoenas and intimidation of the media. Didn't take long... (Although this is hilariously weak tea.)
https://thedailybeast.com/adam-schif...er&via=desktop via @thedailybeast

From my new column: “There does not appear to be any basis to believe that a congressional committee is authorized to subpoena telephone records directly from a provider..." says former Attorney General Michael Mukasey.
https://wsj.com/articles/adam-schiff...e36ee64a8fa8d5 via @WSJ

Also from my column: Constitutional lawyer David Rivkin makes the case that Schiff has opened himself up lawsuits from targets of these subpoenas.

Last edited by Captain_Swoop; 8th December 2019 at 06:57 AM.
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Old 8th December 2019, 07:44 AM   #648
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Actually no he couldn't. Not according to Senate rules. The GOP could theoretically change the rules, but It would also look terrible to the point of absurdity. There is an election in 10 months.







The word "shall" means "must" in legal speak.
At one time statements as "but It would also look terrible to the point of absurdity." had some validity, but not these days.
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Old 8th December 2019, 08:28 AM   #649
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Originally Posted by Trump
Still waiting for my fellow members of the media to express their deep outrage and alarm that Intelligence Chair Schiff snooped thru and published phone records of member of the free press. The silence is deafening.

So what about that, "Resistance"?
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Old 8th December 2019, 08:33 AM   #650
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Ted Cruz on Meet The Press is trying to make the case that Ukraine is the one who interfered with the elections and it's the main reason to investigate Hunter Biden and that Trump had done nothing wrong.
He then fully admits to Russia meddling in the 2016 elections along with China, but Cruz is just towing the GOP line and looking foolish doing it.
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Old 8th December 2019, 09:17 AM   #651
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https://www.thedailybeast.com/adam-s...-phone-records

Quote:
Patrick Boland, the top spokesman for Democrats on the House Intelligence Committee, told The Daily Beast on Thursday that investigators “did not subpoena call records for any member of Congress or their staff... or for any journalist,” including—Boland added—the committee’s ranking member, Rep. Devin Nunes (R-CA) or John Solomon, a columnist formerly of The Hill whose reporting formed much of the public case for Rudy Giuliani and others to do their muckraking in Ukraine.

“Any questions about the fact that Members, congressional staff, or journalists appear in call records released by the Committee should be directed at those individuals, who were in contact with individuals of investigative interest to the impeachment inquiry,” Boland added.
It's exactly the same way that Trump's campaign was first linked to Russia by GCHQ, which led to the accusations of the FBI tapping Trump's phones - they were looking at the phone records of Russian agents and Trump and his associates kept showing up in those records.

Trump & his circle associate with criminals and agents of hostile foreign powers. Agencies surveil those criminals and agents of hostile foreign powers and notice that Trump & his circle keep showing up in that surveillance. Trump calls foul and spins a conspiracy theory about those agencies specifically surveilling him.

And people keep falling for it unquestioningly.
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Last edited by Squeegee Beckenheim; 8th December 2019 at 09:19 AM.
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Old 8th December 2019, 09:58 AM   #652
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Representatives only serve for 2 years, senators 6. Reps are always running!
OK.

I have to say that seems very silly. Reps must be spending almost half their time campaigning!
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Old 8th December 2019, 10:22 AM   #653
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
OK.

I have to say that seems very silly. Reps must be spending almost half their time campaigning!
To me it seems like there would be good and bad points.

Yes, it does mean that a representative needs to spend more time campaigning, which cuts into their time of actually representing their constituents.

On the other hand, it also means that the house is more reflective of the will of the people at any particular point of time. (Just think, if they had 4 or 6 year terms, the U.S. could still be stuck with republicans in control of both houses of congress, the Democrats might have still been stuck as the minority party in the House.
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Old 8th December 2019, 12:04 PM   #654
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Originally Posted by DetectedMotion View Post
Ted Cruz on Meet The Press is trying to make the case that Ukraine is the one who interfered with the elections and it's the main reason to investigate Hunter Biden and that Trump had done nothing wrong.
He then fully admits to Russia meddling in the 2016 elections along with China, but Cruz is just towing the GOP line and looking foolish doing it.
Stuff I don't get: Trump said Cruz's father was in on the assassination of JFK and his buddies at the National Enquirer said Cruz was sleeping with all of his assistants. And now he's defending Trump. Why? And he's not the only one.
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Old 8th December 2019, 12:21 PM   #655
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
As a Brit I don't understand what you mean by using "proper" to mean "our".
One of my brothers named his first-born son after himself. So we have Steve and Steve. My brother is "proper Steve," while his son is "other Steve." Either one could be "our Steve" if other Steves were somehow within context. I guess you're correct that using "proper" this way isn't the same as using "our," but its similar enough that I brought it up.
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Old 8th December 2019, 12:27 PM   #656
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Stuff I don't get: Trump said Cruz's father was in on the assassination of JFK and his buddies at the National Enquirer said Cruz was sleeping with all of his assistants. And now he's defending Trump. Why? And he's not the only one.
You don't get it because you're an honest person essentially and it doesn't occur to you that Trump doesn't believe what he says, at all. Or if he believed it, he changed his mind.
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Old 8th December 2019, 12:34 PM   #657
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
At one time statements as "but It would also look terrible to the point of absurdity." had some validity, but not these days.
I can appreciate why any of us would think that. But political calculations are being made by all. There's about 20 Republican Senators up for reelection next November. The impeachment trial is going to be a public event and too much gamesmanship is likely to backfire.
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Old 8th December 2019, 12:39 PM   #658
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
OK.

I have to say that seems very silly. Reps must be spending almost half their time campaigning!
One of the segments on Last Week Tonight early on was about just that, and about how soulcrushing it was for some freshmen Reps, to be basically shuttled into an office to conduct fundraising over the phone. It's worth a watch in my opinion:
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I AGREE
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Old 8th December 2019, 12:55 PM   #659
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Originally Posted by DallasDad View Post
Indeed, those are the current Senate rules. The Senate has the opportunity to change or affirm the rules at the beginning of each session, and has, under extraordinary circumstances, the option of changing the rules in the middle of a session. The optics would be horrible, but they can change the rules in January when convening for the second session of the 116th Congress. They could adjourn the current session early, in case the House tries to bring articles to the Senate before the end of the year.

I'm not saying this is likely, but if Mitch doesn't care about the optics, he can pull some shenanigans to stall the trial. Historically, Senate trials don't start the day the House submits articles anyway. The articles are acknowledged, and then the tedious business of setting up a schedule begins. Witnesses must be identified and dragged in; absent Senators recalled (or present ones make up emergencies to get called away); the Chief Justice must arrange his schedule, the House needs time to prepare their charges, etc.

It's not instantaneous (and hasn't been in the past), despite the wording of the Senate rules.
It's not instantaneous. But I think the idea that people will delay for a year is highly unlikely. It would appear to EVERYONE as dishonest.

You can get away with anything...that is, if the public lets you.

If McConnell and more importantly all the GOP Senators up for reelection next fall thought they could get away with such shenanigans, they might play that kind of game. But there are senators like Susan Collins, Cory Gardner, Martha McSally, Thom Tillis, Kelly Loeffler that are all projected to have close races which might make them hesitate to jump on McConnell's train.
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Old 8th December 2019, 01:01 PM   #660
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Retweeted

Kimberley Strassel
@KimStrassel
Still waiting for my fellow members of the media to express their deep outrage and alarm that Intelligence Chair Schiff snooped thru and published phone records of member of the free press. The silence is deafening.

Democrats lecture about dirt-digging, even as they abuse their surveillance powers to demand phone records to smear political rivals.
https://wsj.com/articles/schiffs-sur...8eee549ae63e90 via @WSJ

I wondered how long it would be before media rushed to defend Schiff's indefensible subpoenas and intimidation of the media. Didn't take long... (Although this is hilariously weak tea.)
https://thedailybeast.com/adam-schif...er&via=desktop via @thedailybeast

From my new column: “There does not appear to be any basis to believe that a congressional committee is authorized to subpoena telephone records directly from a provider..." says former Attorney General Michael Mukasey.
https://wsj.com/articles/adam-schiff...e36ee64a8fa8d5 via @WSJ

Also from my column: Constitutional lawyer David Rivkin makes the case that Schiff has opened himself up lawsuits from targets of these subpoenas.
Getting to the bottom here, one of those WSJ articles is an op ed and the other is penned by "the editorial board." So neither is exactly news. Why is that?

The Daily Beast op ed says this:
Quote:
The WSJ editorial was worded carefully enough that it was unclear if the author believed Schiff actually subpoenaed Solomon’s phone records or if he or she was arguing that Schiff shouldn’t have published the metadata ensnaring Solomon that came from non-Solomon specific subpoenas. Similar Schiff critics have left it vague too, including The Washington Examiner’s Byron York and Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY).
GOP tactic, drown the fish.
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Old 8th December 2019, 01:13 PM   #661
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Lindsey Graham is going to dismiss the impeachment as soon as the Democrats have finished presenting their case, which won't take long, lies and hearsay not being allowed. He has the votes.

BTW, has anyone else noticed that Piglosi is losing her mind?
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Old 8th December 2019, 01:21 PM   #662
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Less than 48 hours before start of the Impeachment Hearing Hoax, on Monday, the No Due Process, Do Nothing Democrats are, believe it or not, changing the Impeachment Guidelines because the facts are not on their side. When you can’t win the game, change the rules!

@SenTedCruz “The Democrats are now admitting that they can’t prove a crime, they can’t prove a law was violated, and here’s why. Any president, any administration, is justified in investigating corruption, and there was serious evidence of real corruption concerning Hunter....

....Biden on the board of the largest natural gas company in Ukraine, getting paid $83,000 a month, 10 times as much as a board member of @exxonmobil.” Thank you Ted. He also made a fortune from China and others, but zero before his father became V.P. @MeetThePress

“Any president has the authority to investigate corruption. The President himself released the transcript of the call. Now the Democrats have no evidence of a crime and no evidence of violating the law. This is a kangaroo court in the House, but it’s going to go to the Senate,...

....it’s going to go nowhere. They are going to impeach not because they have the evidence, but because they hate the president. I think the American people know that this is a waste of time, this is Democrats putting on a circus.
@SenTedCruz interviewed by Sleepy Eyes Chuck Todd
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Old 8th December 2019, 01:29 PM   #663
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Especially when you see how many of those have passed the House and are sitting on the Senate's table (Moscow Mitch's Graveyard) and yet it is the "Do Nothing Democrats" that aren't doing anything…
I just don't get how people can so happily fall for this obvious ploy.

GOP blocks countless votes on House legislation, calls Dems "do nothing."

GOP blocks firsthand witnesses from testifying, calls accusations hearsay.

GOP blocks security assistance to Ukraine, calls Dems weak on NatSec.
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Old 8th December 2019, 01:33 PM   #664
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I just don't get how people can so happily fall for this obvious ploy.

GOP blocks countless votes on House legislation, calls Dems "do nothing."

GOP blocks firsthand witnesses from testifying, calls accusations hearsay.

GOP blocks security assistance to Ukraine, calls Dems weak on NatSec.
Standard political playbook tactic: Tell lie, lather, rinse, repeat.
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Old 8th December 2019, 02:20 PM   #665
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
Lindsey Graham is going to dismiss the impeachment as soon as the Democrats have finished presenting their case, which won't take long, lies and hearsay not being allowed. He has the votes.

BTW, has anyone else noticed that Piglosi is losing her mind?
Graham doesn't have that authority.
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Old 8th December 2019, 02:29 PM   #666
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
Lindsey Graham is going to dismiss the impeachment as soon as the Democrats have finished presenting their case, which won't take long, lies and hearsay not being allowed. He has the votes.

BTW, has anyone else noticed that Piglosi is losing her mind?
Would you mind pointing out which bits of evidence you think are hearsay?

I noticed that she and the other Democrats in the House are still loyal to the nation, something the Trumptrash in Congress clearly aren't.
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Old 8th December 2019, 02:30 PM   #667
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
Lindsey Graham is going to dismiss the impeachment as soon as the Democrats have finished presenting their case, which won't take long, lies and hearsay not being allowed. He has the votes.

BTW, has anyone else noticed that Piglosi is losing her mind?

She was one of my favorite targets here a few years ago, but she actually seemed a lot worse then. I was going to comment on that sometime. Maybe she kicked the drug habit I suspected her of having.
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Old 8th December 2019, 02:31 PM   #668
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
To me it seems like there would be good and bad points.

Yes, it does mean that a representative needs to spend more time campaigning, which cuts into their time of actually representing their constituents.

On the other hand, it also means that the house is more reflective of the will of the people at any particular point of time. (Just think, if they had 4 or 6 year terms, the U.S. could still be stuck with republicans in control of both houses of congress, the Democrats might have still been stuck as the minority party in the House.

True, but if the "will of the people" was all important, then in 2016, Hillary Clinton would have been elected president, and both the Senate and the House would have been Democrat for the last three years.
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Old 8th December 2019, 02:48 PM   #669
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Graham is just echoing the lie about Trump's due process.
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Old 8th December 2019, 02:51 PM   #670
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
BTW, has anyone else noticed that Pelosi is losing her mind?
She looks in perfect control to me, and the way she smacked down that arrogant alt-right reporter at the news conference the other day was classic Pelosi. He came at her on high-beam - she dipped his lights and then sent him home on park!

What I have noticed is that Trump is losing it; big time. He's like a chubby little three-year old stamping his feet as he throws a tantrum because mummy won't buy him the toy he wants.

Trump really is a laughing stock the world over!
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Last edited by smartcooky; 8th December 2019 at 03:15 PM.
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Old 8th December 2019, 03:15 PM   #671
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
She looks in perfect control to me, and the way she smacked down that arrogant alt-right reporter at the news conference the other day was classic Pelosi. He came at her on high-beam - she dipped his lights and then sent him home on park!

What I have noticed is that Trump is losing it; big time. He's like a chubby little three-year old stamping his feet as he throws a tantrum because mummy won't buy him the toy he wants.

Trump really is a laughing stock the world over!
Like most bullies, he's only tolerated out of fear and despised behind his back. Trump mistakes that for respect. Once he's out of office and they no longer have to deal with him, I expect many of them to reveal their true opinions of him. And Donnie isn't going to like what they'll have go say.
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Old 8th December 2019, 03:19 PM   #672
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Trump Tweets

“The Democrats haven’t come up with a smocking gun. Nancy Pelosi, by raising this to the level of Impeachment, has raised the bar impossibly high. This comes after three years of nonstop investigations of Trump, the Russian collusion narrative, the Mueller Report, & now the.....

.....American people are supposed to believe that this simply isn’t a part of everthing they’ve been trying to do for the last three years? I think it is really a hard sell for Nancy Pelosi.” @DanHenninger The Wall Street Journal
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Old 8th December 2019, 03:28 PM   #673
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Did Trump really tweet about a "smocking gun" or are you just jerkin our chain?
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Old 8th December 2019, 03:39 PM   #674
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He has used that spelling before
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Old 8th December 2019, 03:48 PM   #675
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Did Trump really tweet about a "smocking gun" or are you just jerkin our chain?
In the immortal words of Britney Spears, "Oops, (he) did it again!"

Yes, he really did it again.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...83393852493826

Let's see how long it takes him to correct it.
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Old 8th December 2019, 03:57 PM   #676
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
BTW, has anyone else noticed that Piglosi is losing her mind?
Who?
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Old 8th December 2019, 04:26 PM   #677
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Did Trump really tweet about a "smocking gun" or are you just jerkin our chain?
Not sure if that's his own spelling or the text of the original quote as it is attributed to someone else (but not as an actual reTweet).

But Jeebuzz... He must have done 40 reTweets in the last day or so.
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Old 8th December 2019, 05:04 PM   #678
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
Lindsey Graham is going to dismiss the impeachment as soon as the Democrats have finished presenting their case, which won't take long, lies and hearsay not being allowed. He has the votes.

BTW, has anyone else noticed that Piglosi is losing her mind?
Yes, yes, we know.

His Royal Highness; President Trump is above the law.
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Old 8th December 2019, 05:49 PM   #679
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Trump Tweets

What he did is illegal. Schiff is a corrupt politician and a criminal!

Elise Stefanik
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Every American should be outraged by this unprecedented abuse of power by Adam Schiff. @WSJ

Adam Schiff should immediately release HIS personal phone records so the American people will be able to see his coordination with the whistleblower.
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Old 8th December 2019, 05:55 PM   #680
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Yes, yes, we know.

His Royal Highness; President Trump is above the law.
Nonsense. This impeachment fiasco has nothing to do with the law. They don't have a crime, and that is completely obvious to anyone who has been paying attention. It's one of the greatest political blunders in American history, if not the biggest. Right now, I would be surprised if the House even votes. All it will do is lock in their losing of the House in November. The voters in those 31 districts that Dems won but Trump carried did not send them to D.C. to impeach the guy they voted for. This is a no-brainer. All but two of them did vote for the impeachment inquiry disaster, and that may be enough to defeat them anyway. We'll have to see how things play out here, then wait until November to find out.
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