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Old 30th November 2018, 09:47 AM   #1
Stacko
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Potential Election Fraud in North Carolina

Certification in limbo in N.C. House race as fraud investigation continues

Quote:
Mounting evidence of fraud in North Carolina’s 9th Congressional District could indefinitely delay the certification of a winner, as state election officials investigate whether hundreds of absentee ballots were illegally cast or destroyed.

The North Carolina State Board of Elections and Ethics Enforcement has no plans to certify Republican Mark Harris’s 905-vote victory over Democrat Dan McCready, according to an agenda of a board meeting scheduled for Friday morning.

The board is collecting sworn statements from voters in rural Bladen and Robeson counties, near the South Carolina border, who described people coming to their doors and urging them to hand over their absentee ballots, sometimes without filling them out. Others described receiving absentee ballots by mail that they had not requested. It is illegal to take someone else’s ballot and turn it in.

Investigators are also scrutinizing unusually high numbers of absentee ballots cast in Bladen County, in both the general election and the May 8 primary, in which Harris defeated incumbent Rep. Robert Pittenger (R) by 828 votes. In the primary, Harris won 96 percent of all absentee ballots in Bladen, a far higher percentage than his win in the county overall — a statistic that this week is prompting fresh accusations of fraud.

Another irregularity in both the primary and general elections is the high number of absentee ballots in some precincts that were requested but not turned in.
Weird that it didn't take voter ID laws to catch this.
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Old 30th November 2018, 09:52 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Certification in limbo in N.C. House race as fraud investigation continues



Weird that it didn't take voter ID laws to catch this.
Not willing to pay to read the linked article.

If it is proved a significant amount of ballots were destroyed, per the first line, not sure how that would be resolved. New election?
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Old 30th November 2018, 09:53 AM   #3
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Non-pay wall article: https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/30/polit...ify/index.html
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Old 30th November 2018, 09:57 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Not willing to pay to read the linked article.

If it is proved a significant amount of ballots were destroyed, per the first line, not sure how that would be resolved. New election?
Just more effective (illegally restrictive) voting laws.

And 905 lynchings of commies. It is the South.

Things have not changed.
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Old 30th November 2018, 09:57 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Not willing to pay to read the linked article.

If it is proved a significant amount of ballots were destroyed, per the first line, not sure how that would be resolved. New election?
Quote:
The state board has the power to order a new election if it determines the irregularities could have made a difference in the outcome or were widespread enough to generally taint the outcome.
You can use incognito mode to view the article or clear your cookies.

"...widespread enough to generally taint the outcome." Seems like a very subjective standard that could possibly make things messy.
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Old 30th November 2018, 10:10 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
You can use incognito mode to view the article or clear your cookies.
Thanks for the tip, never thought of that. Was looking for non-paywall article to link but poster JoeMorgue already handled it.

Quote:
"...widespread enough to generally taint the outcome." Seems like a very subjective standard that could possibly make things messy.
The overwhelmingly biased percentage of absentee votes bodes ill. And may be traceable.
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Old 30th November 2018, 11:25 AM   #7
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Did I miss the portion of the article where it stated who the suspicious absentee ballots were cast for?
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Old 30th November 2018, 11:37 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by C_Felix View Post
Did I miss the portion of the article where it stated who the suspicious absentee ballots were cast for?
I don't think there's anyway to do that definitively in a secret ballot system. There's a clear suspicion of who the votes went to as similar irregularities happened in the GOP primary as well.
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Old 30th November 2018, 11:49 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by C_Felix View Post
Did I miss the portion of the article where it stated who the suspicious absentee ballots were cast for?
From the quoted portion of the OP:

Quote:
In the primary, Harris won 96 percent of all absentee ballots in Bladen, a far higher percentage than his win in the county overall — a statistic that this week is prompting fresh accusations of fraud.
I don't know if they can make the same determination for the general election.

So they know who voted by absentee ballot. And they know what portion of absentee ballots (in the primary, at least) went for this or that candidate.

They just need to connect the two, which might be very hard, given that the system is designed for voting to be anonymous.
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Old 1st December 2018, 02:16 PM   #10
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More info.

Quote:
The man at the center of speculation about the alleged activities, McCrae Dowless, was paid by the Harris campaign as a contractor for the candidate’s top consultant.



An analysis by Catawba College political scientist Michael Bitzer suggested more aberrations.

In seven of the eight counties in the 9th District, for example, McCready won a lopsided majority of the mailed-in absentee ballots. But not in Bladen County. There, Republican Mark Harris won 61 percent even though registered Republicans accounted for only 19 percent of the county’s accepted absentee ballots.

Unaffiliated voters accounted for 39 percent. Bitzer said Harris’ margin “could potentially come from all those unaffiliated voters.”

“But to have each and every one of those unaffiliated voters vote Republican, that’s pretty astonishing,” he added. “If that’s the case, there’s a very concerted effort to use that method to one candidate’s advantage. . . . But at that level there’s something else beyond a concerted effort that could be at work.”



In this year’s primary, Harris won 437 absentee votes in Bladen to 17 for GOP incumbent Rep. Robert Pittenger. This month Harris won 420 absentee votes to McCready’s 258.

In the 2016 congressional primary, Dowless worked for Todd Johnson. Johnson got 221 absentee votes to 4 for Harris and 1 for Pittenger. In the district as a whole, Johnson finished third.

Dwight Sheppard, a fire investigator from Bladen County who also gave the Democratic Party an affidavit, said he believes Dowless is in the thick of the controversy. Dowless has denied any wrongdoing.
ETA: FiveThirtyEight is also covering.

Last edited by Stacko; 1st December 2018 at 02:25 PM.
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Old 1st December 2018, 02:23 PM   #11
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Here's the results from the primary. That sixth column is telling.


You don't get a Republican primary result like this for the Absentee By-Mail solely by submitting fraudulent absentee ballots for Harris. It is likely votes for Pittenger were destroyed, too
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Old 1st December 2018, 03:33 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
It is concerning, although Harris won on election day and damn near won with none of the absentee ballots factored in at all. My guess is it will get ignored. And that will be wrong
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Old 1st December 2018, 05:12 PM   #13
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Just waiting on the Trump Tweets about how this potential voter fraud is absolutely terrible and there has to be a full investigation into it...... just kidding, like that's going to ever happen.
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Old 1st December 2018, 05:41 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Just waiting on the Trump Tweets about how this potential voter fraud is absolutely terrible and there has to be a full investigation into it...... just kidding, like that's going to ever happen.
I have already been reassured by many members here that there has been no evidence of election fraud and that the Trump Election Integrity Commission was rightfully ridiculed and subsequently disbanded. Can we finally agree that national standards need to be established that provide security, convenience, and verifiability?
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Old 1st December 2018, 05:47 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by ServiceSoon View Post
I have already been reassured by many members here that there has been no evidence of election fraud and that the Trump Election Integrity Commission was rightfully ridiculed and subsequently disbanded. Can we finally agree that national standards need to be established that provide security, convenience, and verifiability?
Voter IDiots have been silent on this because absentee ballots are not possible to check for ID.
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Old 1st December 2018, 05:48 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by ServiceSoon View Post
I have already been reassured by many members here that there has been no evidence of election fraud and that the Trump Election Integrity Commission was rightfully ridiculed and subsequently disbanded. Can we finally agree that national standards need to be established that provide security, convenience, and verifiability?
Assuming that the allegations in this case are correct, what sort of national standards to provide security, convenience, and verifiability would have prevented it?
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Old 5th December 2018, 04:21 AM   #17
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Bladen county and McCrae Dowless

"The news station reported that it consistently found the same people signing as witnesses for the people voting, something it notes is unusual. Eason was listed as signing as a witness for 28 submitted and accepted absentee ballot envelopes." link

"The state also released a list of names that were documented when a grouping of mail-in absentee ballot applications were turned in. Out of the four pages provided, McCrae Dowless signed in more than a dozen times accounting for nearly 600 mail-in ballot applications." link2
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Old 5th December 2018, 06:20 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by ServiceSoon View Post
I have already been reassured by many members here that there has been no evidence of election fraud and that the Trump Election Integrity Commission was rightfully ridiculed and subsequently disbanded. Can we finally agree that national standards need to be established that provide security, convenience, and verifiability?
The same party that backed that commission is saying they alleged fraud here is too small to affect the election separated by less than 1,000 votes.

Once again, the solutions are for a small and rare problem and the solutions might lead to significantly more legitimate ballots not being cast.
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Old 5th December 2018, 07:30 AM   #19
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“The conservative activists who have most vocally pushed a narrative of rampant voter fraud in recent years are ignoring the unfolding drama in North Carolina.”
I wonder why they don't care?
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Old 5th December 2018, 07:43 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
It's almost like it was actually about voter suppression this whole time. If only someone had warned us...
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Old 5th December 2018, 07:46 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by ServiceSoon View Post
I have already been reassured by many members here that there has been no evidence of election fraud and that the Trump Election Integrity Commission was rightfully ridiculed and subsequently disbanded. Can we finally agree that national standards need to be established that provide security, convenience, and verifiability?
My position is that while there is election fraud, there is most certainly not the type of election fraud that President Trump continues to allege: that 3-5% of the votes cast in 2016 were cast by illegal aliens voting for Clinton. He asserts that once all the fraudulent votes are subtracted, he won the popular vote. Neither the Republican nor the Democratic state attorneys general and secretaries of states could find any evidence of the type of fraud that the president imagines.
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Old 5th December 2018, 07:51 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
My position is that while there is election fraud, there is most certainly not the type of election fraud that President Trump continues to allege: that 3-5% of the votes cast in 2016 were cast by illegal aliens voting for Clinton. He asserts that once all the fraudulent votes are subtracted, he won the popular vote. Neither the Republican nor the Democratic state attorneys general and secretaries of states could find any evidence of the type of fraud that the president imagines.
It's hard enough to get people to vote legally. Organizing millions of people to commit a felony in order to vote is going to be Sisyphean task which also the chance of no potential return.

It's much easier to destroy a ballot.
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Old 5th December 2018, 08:33 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
It's hard enough to get people to vote legally. Organizing millions of people to commit a felony in order to vote is going to be Sisyphean task which also the chance of no potential return.

It's much easier to destroy a ballot.
In the midterms here, a local volunteer went to the bar after polls closed and tilted back a few. Next day, looked in the back seat of the car and there were bunches of absentee/provisional ballots not turned in. Whoopsie.
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Old 5th December 2018, 10:06 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
Voter IDiots have been silent on this because absentee ballots are not possible to check for ID.
Even if they were wearing a different hat?
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Old 5th December 2018, 06:04 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by ServiceSoon View Post
I have already been reassured by many members here that there has been no evidence of election fraud and that the Trump Election Integrity Commission was rightfully ridiculed and subsequently disbanded. Can we finally agree that national standards need to be established that provide security, convenience, and verifiability?
No, you've been assured that there's little evidence of voter fraud, not election fraud. They are different things.
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Old 7th December 2018, 12:26 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by phunk View Post
No, you've been assured that there's little evidence of voter fraud, not election fraud. They are different things.


Exactly right. Voter ID laws will do nothing to fix even the imagined problems that the GOP claims exist, if the officials in charge of running the election are corrupt. In this particular case, it seems quite clear that they are corrupt.
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Old 7th December 2018, 04:40 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Exactly right. Voter ID laws will do nothing to fix even the imagined problems that the GOP claims exist, if the officials in charge of running the election are corrupt. In this particular case, it seems quite clear that they are corrupt.
This guy, who has close ties to the local sheriff (imagine that), actually admitted to illegal vote tampering in a recorded and broadcast election board meeting that he wanted to discuss his complaint that the Dems had cheated in the 2016 election (no evidence of that by the way). They refereed him for prosecution. Why didn't that happen?
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Old 8th December 2018, 10:48 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
My position is that while there is election fraud, there is most certainly not the type of election fraud that President Trump continues to allege: that 3-5% of the votes cast in 2016 were cast by illegal aliens voting for Clinton. He asserts that once all the fraudulent votes are subtracted, he won the popular vote. Neither the Republican nor the Democratic state attorneys general and secretaries of states could find any evidence of the type of fraud that the president imagines.
the "president" is a fraud.
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Old 8th December 2018, 10:50 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Exactly right. Voter ID laws will do nothing to fix even the imagined problems that the GOP claims exist, if the officials in charge of running the election are corrupt. In this particular case, it seems quite clear that they are corrupt.
They are republickers. Of course they are corrupt - it's the only way they can win.
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Old 8th December 2018, 01:01 PM   #30
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Man at the center of North Carolina election fraud allegations has complicated past

Quote:
Leslie McCrae Dowless, the man at the center of election fraud allegations that have roiled North Carolina’s 9th Congressional District, has a long and colorful history as a political operative in the district.

The candidates he works for often perform better than expected among absentee voters in one of the district's counties, one reason he’s been hired by a variety of political campaigns over the years.

But public records paint a more complicated picture, linking him to past accusations of improper ballot collection and showing he spent time in prison on a felony fraud conviction unrelated to elections.

Dowless has come under increased scrutiny since the North Carolina State Board of Elections and Ethics Enforcement voted not to certify Republican Mark Harris’s apparent 905-vote victory over Democrat Dan McCready in the 9th district congressional race. The board, a state agency charged with the administration and certification of elections, instead called for a public hearing by Dec. 21 to investigate “claims of irregularities and fraudulent activities related to absentee by-mail ballots.”
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