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Tags Andrew McCabe , donald trump , George Papadopoulos , Michael Cohen , Paul Manafort , Robert Mueller , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections

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Old 6th December 2018, 04:36 PM   #521
plague311
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
That post is not exactly making your point. Either you are making TBD's point, or employing double standards.

Either way, ring up another dinger for the big dog!
It was a great pass I'm sure.
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Old 6th December 2018, 04:38 PM   #522
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Standalone? Without any corroborating evidence at all? I'd be interested in seeing that.
Sure, of course it's decent evidence you have a nickel, presuming that you know whether or not you have a nickel and I have reason to believe you wouldn't lie.

That second point may be a serious issue with Meadows.
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Old 6th December 2018, 04:40 PM   #523
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Actually, by and large, your testimony about having a nickel is not bad evidence. It's not conclusive, but we accept appeal to reliable authority all the time.
Depending on the circumstance, but I didn't specify any circumstance. Lacking any special conditions, I could just as easily have a nickel in my pocket right now as not.

You don't know me, you don't know what I bought with cash today, you don't know if I keep change in my pockets, etc., etc. Given that, if I say I have a nickel in my pocket right now, what are the odds that you'll be correct if you say I'm telling the truth, or not? I don't see much way to make it anything but 50/50.

Now, the circumstances (or lack thereof) that make it 50/50 that I have a nickel in my pocket don't apply to the congressman who says he has evidence that M. & S. altered the 302s, so I think it's not 50/50 in that regard. It's more like 80/20. But don't ask me which way, I don't know!
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Old 6th December 2018, 04:43 PM   #524
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I agree. Paul has the patience of a saint.
Shucks. [lightly kicks instep of one foot with the other while looking downwards]

But, as I said, I take it as an exercise in logic. Also, as an exercise in writing plainly and succinctly.

And, if I forget for a moment the dystopian nightmare that our democracy is hurdling toward, no patience is required, actually.
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Old 6th December 2018, 05:03 PM   #525
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Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
Depending on the circumstance, but I didn't specify any circumstance. Lacking any special conditions, I could just as easily have a nickel in my pocket right now as not.

You don't know me, you don't know what I bought with cash today, you don't know if I keep change in my pockets, etc., etc. Given that, if I say I have a nickel in my pocket right now, what are the odds that you'll be correct if you say I'm telling the truth, or not? I don't see much way to make it anything but 50/50.

Now, the circumstances (or lack thereof) that make it 50/50 that I have a nickel in my pocket don't apply to the congressman who says he has evidence that M. & S. altered the 302s, so I think it's not 50/50 in that regard. It's more like 80/20. But don't ask me which way, I don't know!
I would tend to believe a stranger who claims to have a nickel, but a deeply partisan congressman like Meadows is indeed another matter when speaking about the investigation.

So I'll concede that point. My concern was about your analogy, not your deeper point.
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Old 6th December 2018, 06:04 PM   #526
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"In my pocket, I have a nickel."
I'll take your word for it.

"In my pocket, I have the nuclear launch codes."
Could be, but I'll need some evidence.

"In my pocket, I have a plea agreement for a crime that isn't actually illegal."
Oh, come on now! Only a fool would believe that!
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Old 6th December 2018, 06:16 PM   #527
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In these situations, I resort to an important source of wisdom: Andy Griffith

In the Andy Griffith Show episode, "The Darlings are Coming!", Briscoe Darling (Denver Pyle) and his family come to Mayberry. They get a room a the Mayberry Inn, but it is only supposed to be for one person. However, the whole family stays in the room, and the innkeeper is trying to catch them.

Andy comes to the room and the Darlings are playing a bluegrass tune, but when Andy knocks, it all stops. Briscoe Darling comes to the door, and Andy explains that the room is supposed to be only for him, and he needs to pay for additional people. The exchange is something like this

BD: No, it's just me here.
AG: But I heard music playing.
BD: That's just me playing my jug.
AG: But I heard banjo music.
BD: You don't think I can make banjo sounds come out of my jug?
AG: To be honest, Mr. Darling, no, I don't.
BD: Man's entitled to his opinion.

This exchange is so good on so many levels, but it works in this case in this way: Is Briscoe Darling's claim that he can make his jug sound like a banjo evidence that he can do it?

Unfortunately, this episode does not include Earnest T. Bass.
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Old 6th December 2018, 06:36 PM   #528
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Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
Shucks. [lightly kicks instep of one foot with the other while looking downwards]

But, as I said, I take it as an exercise in logic. Also, as an exercise in writing plainly and succinctly.

And, if I forget for a moment the dystopian nightmare that our democracy is hurdling toward, no patience is required, actually.
I don't have that kind of patience when I'm dealing with someone who plays games on the thread and is what I consider to be intellectually dishonest. I tend to get POed.

I admire those who can keep it on an even keel.
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Old 6th December 2018, 07:48 PM   #529
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
In these situations, I resort to an important source of wisdom: Andy Griffith

In the Andy Griffith Show episode, "The Darlings are Coming!", Briscoe Darling (Denver Pyle) and his family come to Mayberry. They get a room a the Mayberry Inn, but it is only supposed to be for one person. However, the whole family stays in the room, and the innkeeper is trying to catch them.

Andy comes to the room and the Darlings are playing a bluegrass tune, but when Andy knocks, it all stops. Briscoe Darling comes to the door, and Andy explains that the room is supposed to be only for him, and he needs to pay for additional people. The exchange is something like this

BD: No, it's just me here.
AG: But I heard music playing.
BD: That's just me playing my jug.
AG: But I heard banjo music.
BD: You don't think I can make banjo sounds come out of my jug?
AG: To be honest, Mr. Darling, no, I don't.
BD: Man's entitled to his opinion.

This exchange is so good on so many levels, but it works in this case in this way: Is Briscoe Darling's claim that he can make his jug sound like a banjo evidence that he can do it?

Unfortunately, this episode does not include Earnest T. Bass.
Now that there is a lesson that our correspondents would be well advised to take to heart.

There is evidence of x.
well that evidence is not sufficient evidence, so that is not evidence.
Actual critical thinkers and actual skeptics heads ******* explode.

Folks, your opinions are not evidence and your opinion that actual evidence aint sufficient aint worth the time of day.

Thus endeth the lesson, and god damn I envy you folks for learning from the best.

TBD out
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Old 6th December 2018, 07:58 PM   #530
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
"In my pocket, I have a nickel."
I'll take your word for it.

"In my pocket, I have the nuclear launch codes."
Could be, but I'll need some evidence.

"In my pocket, I have a plea agreement for a crime that isn't actually illegal."
Oh, come on now! Only a fool would believe that!
Once again, totally with you.
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Old 6th December 2018, 08:37 PM   #531
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Once again, totally with you.
Really? Ya gonna help him corral those straw men?
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Old 6th December 2018, 09:00 PM   #532
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Now that there is a lesson that our correspondents would be well advised to take to heart.

There is evidence of x.
well that evidence is not sufficient evidence, so that is not evidence.
Actual critical thinkers and actual skeptics heads ******* explode.

Folks, your opinions are not evidence and your opinion that actual evidence aint sufficient aint worth the time of day.

Thus endeth the lesson, and god damn I envy you folks for learning from the best.

TBD out
Saying there is evidence of X is of course a massive exaggeration. What there is a wild statement from a single very partisan representative. Critical thinkers and skeptics heads do not ******* explode, they merely say, 'is that all you got?' And maybe, 'provide more or move the **** on.'

Time to go back to school TBD.
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Old 6th December 2018, 09:12 PM   #533
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Saying there is evidence of X is of course a massive exaggeration. What there is a wild statement from a single very partisan representative. Critical thinkers and skeptics heads do not ******* explode, they merely say, 'is that all you got?' And maybe, 'provide more or move the **** on.'

Time to go back to school TBD.
I read your quoted post you were replying to in the voice of Frank Gallagher from Shameless, and pictured him on a barstool saying it. Makes it work beautifully for full comedic effect.

I do believe the Trump administration is taking legal advice from our local self-proclaimed expert.
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Old 6th December 2018, 09:50 PM   #534
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Really? Ya gonna help him corral those straw men?
Straw men? Do tell!
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Old 7th December 2018, 03:21 AM   #535
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Trump Tweets


Jerome Corsi: ”This is not justice, this is not America. This is a political prosecution. The Special Prosecutor (Counsel), to get this plea deal, demanded I lie and violate the law. They’re the criminals.” He is not alone. 17 Angry Dems. People forced to lie. Sad! @Trish_Regan

Trish_Regan: “Did the FBI follow protocol to obtain the FISA warrant? I don’t think so. The Dossier was opposition research funded by opponents. Don’t use Government resources to take down political foes. Weaponizing Government for gain.” Is this really America? Witch Hunt!
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Old 7th December 2018, 05:15 AM   #536
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Trump Tweets a huge (for him) statement on the investigation.

Robert Mueller and Leakin’ Lyin’ James Comey are Best Friends, just one of many Mueller Conflicts of Interest. And bye the way, wasn’t the woman in charge of prosecuting Jerome Corsi (who I do not know) in charge of “legal” at the corrupt Clinton Foundation? A total Witch Hunt...

....Will Robert Mueller’s big time conflicts of interest be listed at the top of his Republicans only Report. Will Andrew Weissman’s horrible and vicious prosecutorial past be listed in the Report. He wrongly destroyed people’s lives, took down great companies, only to be........

.....overturned, 9-0, in the United States Supreme Court. Doing same thing to people now. Will all of the substantial & many contributions made by the 17 Angry Democrats to the Campaign of Crooked Hillary be listed in top of Report. Will the people that worked for the Clinton....

....Foundation be listed at the top of the Report? Will the scathing document written about Lyin’ James Comey, by the man in charge of the case, Rod Rosenstein (who also signed the FISA Warrant), be a big part of the Report? Isn’t Rod therefore totally conflicted? Will all of....

...the lying and leaking by the people doing the Report, & also Bruce Ohr (and his lovely wife Molly), Comey, Brennan, Clapper, & all of the many fired people of the FBI, be listed in the Report? Will the corruption within the DNC & Clinton Campaign be exposed?..And so much more!
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Old 7th December 2018, 05:21 AM   #537
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Someone is peeing-in-his-pants scared.
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Old 7th December 2018, 05:37 AM   #538
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
Someone is peeing-in-his-pants scared.
He's going to be able to teach wombats how to **** bricks pretty soon.
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Old 7th December 2018, 05:47 AM   #539
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Karen and I just finished listening to “Bag Man” by Rachel Maddow. It’s a deep dive into the fall of Spiro Agnew, Vice President of the United States. Highly recommended.

The parallels between the events of the mid-70’s and now are unmistakable. Once an investigation uncovers illegal acts, there’s nothing to do but attack the process by which those illegal acts were uncovered.

Trump is following a playbook. One that did not work for Agnew. I suspect it won’t work now, but one never knows.
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Old 7th December 2018, 06:07 AM   #540
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets a huge (for him) statement on the investigation.

Robert Mueller and Leakin’ Lyin’ James Comey are Best Friends, just one of many Mueller Conflicts of Interest. And bye the way, wasn’t the woman in charge of prosecuting Jerome Corsi (who I do not know) in charge of “legal” at the corrupt Clinton Foundation? A total Witch Hunt...

....Will Robert Mueller’s big time conflicts of interest be listed at the top of his Republicans only Report. Will Andrew Weissman’s horrible and vicious prosecutorial past be listed in the Report. He wrongly destroyed people’s lives, took down great companies, only to be........

.....overturned, 9-0, in the United States Supreme Court. Doing same thing to people now. Will all of the substantial & many contributions made by the 17 Angry Democrats to the Campaign of Crooked Hillary be listed in top of Report. Will the people that worked for the Clinton....

....Foundation be listed at the top of the Report? Will the scathing document written about Lyin’ James Comey, by the man in charge of the case, Rod Rosenstein (who also signed the FISA Warrant), be a big part of the Report? Isn’t Rod therefore totally conflicted? Will all of....

...the lying and leaking by the people doing the Report, & also Bruce Ohr (and his lovely wife Molly), Comey, Brennan, Clapper, & all of the many fired people of the FBI, be listed in the Report? Will the corruption within the DNC & Clinton Campaign be exposed?..And so much more!
It's really getting to him.
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Old 7th December 2018, 06:31 AM   #541
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
Someone is peeing-in-his-pants scared.
Isn't it great?
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Old 7th December 2018, 07:30 AM   #542
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets a huge (for him) statement on the investigation.

Robert Mueller and Leakin’ Lyin’ James Comey are Best Friends, just one of many Mueller Conflicts of Interest. And bye the way, wasn’t the woman in charge of prosecuting Jerome Corsi (who I do not know) in charge of “legal” at the corrupt Clinton Foundation? A total Witch Hunt...

....Will Robert Mueller’s big time conflicts of interest be listed at the top of his Republicans only Report. Will Andrew Weissman’s horrible and vicious prosecutorial past be listed in the Report. He wrongly destroyed people’s lives, took down great companies, only to be........

.....overturned, 9-0, in the United States Supreme Court. Doing same thing to people now. Will all of the substantial & many contributions made by the 17 Angry Democrats to the Campaign of Crooked Hillary be listed in top of Report. Will the people that worked for the Clinton....

....Foundation be listed at the top of the Report? Will the scathing document written about Lyin’ James Comey, by the man in charge of the case, Rod Rosenstein (who also signed the FISA Warrant), be a big part of the Report? Isn’t Rod therefore totally conflicted? Will all of....

...the lying and leaking by the people doing the Report, & also Bruce Ohr (and his lovely wife Molly), Comey, Brennan, Clapper, & all of the many fired people of the FBI, be listed in the Report? Will the corruption within the DNC & Clinton Campaign be exposed?..And so much more!
The time stamps suggest he spent an hour composing those tweets. Maybe there was a cheeseburger break.
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Old 7th December 2018, 07:43 AM   #543
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I don't think all of his monkeys are typing.
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Old 7th December 2018, 07:58 AM   #544
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Saying there is evidence of X is of course a massive exaggeration. What there is a wild statement from a single very partisan representative. Critical thinkers and skeptics heads do not ******* explode, they merely say, 'is that all you got?' And maybe, 'provide more or move the **** on.'

Time to go back to school TBD.
Yes, and there's another important factor that should cause us to doubt Meadow's claim: there is no detail behind his claim. What type of evidence does he have? How did he get it?

Compare this to the claim that Kashoggi was murdered in the embassy in Turkey. The Turks told us what type of evidence they had (recordings, for instance). Other people have confirmed the evidence exists. Details about what the evidence shows (K. was tortured for 7 minutes) are revealed.

Etc.
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Old 7th December 2018, 08:54 AM   #545
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I'd just like to point out that by the standards TBD is using, a single partisan claim that evidence exists of altering 302s constitutes evidence, then there is much more reliable evidence that Trump is an idiot.

There is evidence numerous people appointed by or advising Trump have called him an idiot or some similar synonym. Rex Tillerson his Secretary of State, Gary Cohen his economic advisor, H R Mcmaster his national security advisor, John Kelly his chief of staff, Sam Nunberg his political advisor, Steve Mnuchin his Secretary of state, Reince Preibus his chief of staff.

And if you included being called a child you'd be able to add several more names to that list.
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Old 7th December 2018, 08:58 AM   #546
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
I'd just like to point out that by the standards TBD is using, a single partisan claim that evidence exists of altering 302s constitutes evidence
Well, there is more evidence than a single claim, including the several statements regarding the fact that the original people who interviewed did not think he was lying, the fact that the FBI under these two mutts has admitted to modifying other 302s, etc.

There is no chance that the partisans reviewing those facts will properly consider them, of course.

/I deleted the embarrassing whataboutism, because yikes...
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Old 7th December 2018, 09:01 AM   #547
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Well, there is more evidence than a single claim, including the several statements regarding the fact that the original people who interviewed did not think he was lying, the fact that the FBI under these two mutts has admitted to modifying other 302s, etc.
Will you provide citations, please?
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Old 7th December 2018, 09:01 AM   #548
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Will you provide citations, please?
already did.
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Old 7th December 2018, 09:14 AM   #549
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
already did.
Will you link to the post in which you did, please?
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Old 7th December 2018, 09:17 AM   #550
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https://twitter.com/renato_mariotti/...54657173315584

Quote:
Trump has “repeatedly asked” if Barr would recuse himself from overseeing Mueller because he wants a “loyalist” managing the investigation, according to @nytimes.

This is corruption, pure and simple. Congress should investigate communications with Barr about the investigation.
Quote embedded in tweet.
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Old 7th December 2018, 09:18 AM   #551
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...01119697108992

Quote:
Robert Mueller and Leakin’ Lyin’ James Comey are Best Friends, just one of many Mueller Conflicts of Interest. And bye the way, wasn’t the woman in charge of prosecuting Jerome Corsi (who I do not know) in charge of “legal” at the corrupt Clinton Foundation? A total Witch Hunt...
https://twitter.com/normative/status...45446133526529

Quote:
I realize this is the equivalent of fact-checking a Tourette’s outburst, but: Neither of these things are true.

By all accounts, Mueller & Comey had a friendly, collegial relationship at DOJ, but not much of a social relationship outside of work. They’ve had dinner together exactly twice.

Jeannie Rhee represented the Clinton Foundation in one lawsuit when she was a partner at Wilmer Hale. She was not “head of legal at the Clinton Foundation”.

The suit in question, by the way, was one of many, many frivolous lawsuits, quickly dismissed, that Larry Klayman has filed against the Clintons over the years. Rhee probably could’ve let the interns handle it.
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Old 7th December 2018, 09:21 AM   #552
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Well, there is more evidence than a single claim, including the several statements regarding the fact that the original people who interviewed did not think he was lying
My recollection is that the raw data that a bunch of other conclusions went beyond was that the FBI agents merely said that his physical characteristics did not indicate he was lying. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
. . .the fact that the FBI under these two mutts has admitted to modifying other 302s, etc.
Do you have a citation or a link for this? This is a new one, to my memory.
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Old 7th December 2018, 09:21 AM   #553
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
They just need to look at how he allowed Bush the greater to pardon his way out of the Iran-Contra affair.
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Old 7th December 2018, 09:31 AM   #554
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So we know that Strzok and the crew monkeyed with 302s sent to Congress.

https://twitter.com/PoliticalShort/s...38232280481792

And even more curiously, on the very day that Flynn resigned, we see this exchange between the star crossed lovers:

Quote:
"Also, is Andy good with F 302?"
"Fyi, have wrap at 345. Done at 430"
"Launch on f 302."
"K thank you."
Strzok is asking his gal pal to ask Andy McCabe if he approves Strzok's 302 (why, was Andy in the ******* meeting?) and Lisa page tells her sleazy **** buddy that Andy says it is a launch:

Page 5-6

What a pack of scumbos....
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Old 7th December 2018, 09:44 AM   #555
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Trump Tweets

It has been incorrectly reported that Rudy Giuliani and others will not be doing a counter to the Mueller Report. That is Fake News. Already 87 pages done, but obviously cannot complete until we see the final Witch Hunt Report.

We will be doing a major Counter Report to the Mueller Report. This should never again be allowed to happen to a future President of the United States!
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Old 7th December 2018, 09:48 AM   #556
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I'm not sure I understand this.

They are producing a counter report, to counter a report that hasn't been released yet?
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Old 7th December 2018, 09:48 AM   #557
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"Bye the way"...
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Old 7th December 2018, 09:52 AM   #558
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
So we know that Strzok and the crew monkeyed with 302s sent to Congress.

https://twitter.com/PoliticalShort/s...38232280481792

And even more curiously, on the very day that Flynn resigned, we see this exchange between the star crossed lovers:



Strzok is asking his gal pal to ask Andy McCabe if he approves Strzok's 302 (why, was Andy in the ******* meeting?) and Lisa page tells her sleazy **** buddy that Andy says it is a launch:

Page 5-6

What a pack of scumbos....
Wow! That's what you conclude that exchange means? Seriously? Gotta tell you that's ******* nonsense....not to mention seriously koo koo.
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Old 7th December 2018, 09:57 AM   #559
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I should've known better than to give any benefit of the doubt to lyin' Don.
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Old 7th December 2018, 09:59 AM   #560
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
So we know that Strzok and the crew monkeyed with 302s sent to Congress.

https://twitter.com/PoliticalShort/s...38232280481792
If by "monkeyed with" you're implying they altered them in any way, then the evidence in those texts doesn't support that. What it supports is that they didn't turn over all the 302s to Congress.

Quote:
[...]there are VERY inflammatory things in the 302s we didn't turn over to Congress[...]
Quote:
I want to go read through the ones we didn't produce[...]
Quote:
I will go review the 302s we didn't turn over[...]
Bolding mine.
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