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Old 13th September 2017, 12:24 PM   #1
Molinaro
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Fake news is an industry

From a story on CNN.

The city of Veles in Yugoslavia has turned into a hot bed of fake news websites. It started with one guy who realized he could get lots of views, and hence ad revenue from Facebook pages, and websites carrying fake news stories aimed at Trump supporters.

He then taught other young people in that city on how to make money this way. Over 100 websites were found during the last election to be originating in this Yugoslavian town.

Apparently Facebook took down his page a while ago as it, and Google attempt to crackdown on this issue. But he is already preparing for 2020 to again produce more pro-Trump fake news.

*sad*
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Old 13th September 2017, 12:45 PM   #2
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Yes. It is sad. It would also be sad if a wayward B-52 dropped a full load of Mk. 82s on that little prick and his associates. Very sad.
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Old 13th September 2017, 01:42 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Molinaro View Post
he is already preparing for 2020 to again produce more pro-Trump fake news.
Kudos to him for finding a legal way to make money out of idiots craving for fake news.

But I'm curious - why only target people looking for pro-Trump news? Is it because he thinks Trump supporters are more gullible? Or is there more to it than just getting clicks?
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Old 13th September 2017, 01:47 PM   #4
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I don't think there's a question that Trump supporters are more gullible.
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Old 13th September 2017, 01:53 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
I don't think there's a question that Trump supporters are more gullible.
That is my thinking as well but I didn't want to outright say in the OP. I don't think I could back it up with easily confirmed evidence.

It would devolve into a long winded back and forth if anyone doubts it. Or I could just ignore them.
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Old 13th September 2017, 01:58 PM   #6
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Teach everybody to check their sources, problem solved..
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Old 14th September 2017, 11:43 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
Teach everybody to check their sources, problem solved..
That's the underlying success of fake news, a lot of people don't want to check sources, they want the story they agree with to be true. Checking sources would ruin that.
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Old 14th September 2017, 12:06 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Molinaro View Post
From a story on CNN.

The city of Veles in Yugoslavia...
Slight correction - the country Veles is located in is actually Macedonia, one of the states that formed from the wreckage of Yugoslavia in the '90s.

What is really disturbing from that story are the comments of the Mayor of Veles - he seems to be actually proud of the people generating all of these fake stories.

Last edited by carlvs; 14th September 2017 at 12:07 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 14th September 2017, 12:26 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Kudos to him for finding a legal way to make money out of idiots craving for fake news.

But I'm curious - why only target people looking for pro-Trump news? Is it because he thinks Trump supporters are more gullible? Or is there more to it than just getting clicks?
Some of the Americans who created fake news in the most recent election stated that they started out creating stories to appeal to both liberals and conservatives. The liberals didn't respond much, but the conservatives ate it right up and forwarded it on to friends.

So yes - conservatives and Trump supporters are much more profitable for purveyors of fake news.

Source: We Tracked Down A Fake-News Creator In The Suburbs. Here's What We Learned

Quote:
When we were coming up with headlines it's always kind of about the red meat. Trump really got into the red meat. He knew who his base was. He knew how to feed them a constant diet of this red meat. We've tried to do similar things to liberals. It just has never worked, it never takes off. You'll get debunked within the first two comments and then the whole thing just kind of fizzles out.
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Old 14th September 2017, 12:30 PM   #10
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Disinformation for the people, by the people.
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Old 14th September 2017, 12:31 PM   #11
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Of course most of the most sensational and crazy headlines about Trump weren't fake at all! They're all true.
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Old 14th September 2017, 01:38 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
I don't think there's a question that Trump supporters are more gullible.
More better Engrish next time prease.
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Old 15th September 2017, 04:48 AM   #13
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NPR did rather extensive reporting on this right after the election. They sent correspondents in to talk to some of these folks.
The inescapable conclusion was that the material being put up was NOT being written by these young "entrepreneurs", many of whom had very limited or no English. Rather, the material was being furnished by other actors.
No big secret as to who that might have been.
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Old 15th September 2017, 05:07 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Imhotep View Post
Disinformation for the people, by the people.
That's the danger of the democratisation of information: a lot more sources of false information, deliberate or otherwise.
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Old 15th September 2017, 05:13 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
That's the danger of the democratisation of information: a lot more sources of false information, deliberate or otherwise.
Not a danger. There is no downside to the freedom to say what you want.
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Old 15th September 2017, 05:17 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
I don't think there's a question that Trump supporters are more gullible.
Originally Posted by John Jones View Post
More better Engrish next time prease.
gullibler ?
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Old 15th September 2017, 05:32 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Not a danger. There is no downside to the freedom to say what you want.
Really? So all the people injured after someone yells 'he's got a gun' in a crowded theater isn't a downside?
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Old 15th September 2017, 05:36 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Really? So all the people injured after someone yells 'he's got a gun' in a crowded theater isn't a downside?
No.
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Old 15th September 2017, 05:41 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
No.
What about being convicted for causing a riot or whatever the charge would be and spending time in jail?
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Old 15th September 2017, 05:43 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
What about being convicted for causing a riot or whatever the charge would be and spending time in jail?
That is not the freedom to say what you want. Imprisonment is the opposite of freedom.
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Old 15th September 2017, 05:59 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
That is not the freedom to say what you want. Imprisonment is the opposite of freedom.
Freedom to say what you want doesn't mean freedom from possible consequences of what you said.
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Old 15th September 2017, 06:27 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Freedom to say what you want doesn't mean freedom from possible consequences of what you said.
Right. But is it generally agreed "freedom" means actions and consequences that do not involve coercion? And that consequences and punishment by a force that monopolizes incarceration are separate? I'm open to other interpretations.
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Old 15th September 2017, 06:37 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Right. But is it generally agreed "freedom" means actions and consequences that do not involve coercion?
No.
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Old 15th September 2017, 06:39 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
No.
Well, my statements are based on that. So we are not actually discussing the same thing.
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Old 15th September 2017, 06:46 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Well, my statements are based on that. So we are not actually discussing the same thing.
Yeah, that's a given.
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Old 23rd December 2017, 01:12 PM   #26
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Chris Matthews has a reputation of pinning people down when instead of answering his questions they shift the subject. But he doesn't get an answer most of the time, he only highlights the fact they aren't answering.

I get very annoyed at Chuck Todd, his Meet the Press program is weak at best. He rarely if ever follows up on a question that goes unanswered with a dodge or a falsehood or both.

But we have two relatively new newcomers on the scene, both on MSNBC. Joy Reid and Stephanie Ruhle (Velshi and Ruhle). They are prepared to challenge these Trump supporters' beliefs with facts.

For example today, Reid pointed out to the right wing pundit who was spouting about the Uranium One smoke screen that the US is one of the smallest suppliers of uranium worldwide. She jumped on him asserting the 'Clinton Cash' lie by immediately noting the timeline of Bill's payment and the foundation donation was completely out of sync with the deal. Most of us know the usual nonsense here but Joy brought up one I didn't know. The Republican governor of Utah, Jon Huntsman, specifically signed off on the bill affecting uranium mining in his state.

Copy of the signed papers here.

Huntsman is now Trump's ambassador to Russia.

Ruhle has given similar replies to pundits making false or unsupportable assertions in her interviews. She has facts to challenge the pundit with, not just opinion.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 23rd December 2017 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 23rd December 2017, 01:40 PM   #27
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I don't know if it's the same person, but just yesterday I watched a clip (which I can't locate today) of an MSNBC host absolutely eviscerating one of her guests over the things she was saying about Uranium One. She'd evidently had enough and, occasionally referring to a bit of paper in front of her but mostly seeming to know it by heart, just fired off a string of mostly yes/no questions (but also questions like "how many people had to approve the sale to go through?").

It's amazing how quickly a specious argument can be shown to be specious by someone who actually knows what the facts are.
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Old 23rd December 2017, 02:58 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Kudos to him for finding a legal way to make money out of idiots craving for fake news.

But I'm curious - why only target people looking for pro-Trump news? Is it because he thinks Trump supporters are more gullible? Or is there more to it than just getting clicks?
I have the same question. Has anyone ever found similar outfits pushing a liberal or even just an anti-Trump agenda? I don't just mean just partisan sites or even just bogus sites, but specifically overseas fake news business concerns like the one described in the OP.
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Old 23rd December 2017, 03:16 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Kudos to him for finding a legal way to make money out of idiots craving for fake news.

But I'm curious - why only target people looking for pro-Trump news? Is it because he thinks Trump supporters are more gullible? Or is there more to it than just getting clicks?
Originally Posted by Civet View Post
I have the same question. Has anyone ever found similar outfits pushing a liberal or even just an anti-Trump agenda? I don't just mean just partisan sites or even just bogus sites, but specifically overseas fake news business concerns like the one described in the OP.
I think when they first started they targeted everyone. Then they found out only Trump supporters were believing the fake news so they got targeted. Which makes sense, you need to be an idiot to be a Trump supporter so more likely to believe in fake news.
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Old 23rd December 2017, 06:19 PM   #30
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As others have pointed out there is fake news targeting both liberals and conservatives.

Targeting conservatives is just more profitable because they believe and click at a higher rate than liberals. But yes liberals do fall for it too and yes there is fake news targeting them as well.
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Old 23rd December 2017, 06:33 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I don't know if it's the same person, but just yesterday I watched a clip (which I can't locate today) of an MSNBC host absolutely eviscerating one of her guests over the things she was saying about Uranium One. She'd evidently had enough and, occasionally referring to a bit of paper in front of her but mostly seeming to know it by heart, just fired off a string of mostly yes/no questions (but also questions like "how many people had to approve the sale to go through?").

It's amazing how quickly a specious argument can be shown to be specious by someone who actually knows what the facts are.
That was Joy Reid.
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Old 24th December 2017, 01:15 PM   #32
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Doesn't everyone here think both sides will do whatever it takes to win an election? Neither side is more honest than the other. As long as they think they can't get caught they will do absolutely anything.

Right now it's the Dems digging up dirt on the Repubs because they still can't accept that Trump won. A lot of dirt was dug up by Repubs as well during the election - a whole lot. Both sides suck, get real.

Look at CNN attacking Trump - their website is littered with anti-Trump stuff every day. Pathetic. I see your fake news and raise you a CNN

The Dems want to impeach Trump and I think a lot of what they are doing right now is in preparation for that.

Does anyone here think that enough dirt will ever be found that can be used to remove Trump from office, and that he actually will be removed? Me either.
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Old 24th December 2017, 01:31 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Doesn't everyone here think both sides will do whatever it takes to win an election? Neither side is more honest than the other. As long as they think they can't get caught they will do absolutely anything.
Sorry, you cannot compare Trump's pathological lying and the Republicans sucking up to him with the usual campaign lying.

And yes, when it comes to wars we shouldn't be in, POTUSs on both sides have been criminal liars to the American public.

Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Right now it's the Dems digging up dirt on the Repubs because they still can't accept that Trump won. A lot of dirt was dug up by Repubs as well during the election - a whole lot. Both sides suck, get real.

Look at CNN attacking Trump - their website is littered with anti-Trump stuff every day. Pathetic. I see your fake news and raise you a CNN
I think you meant this emoji:

Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
The Dems want to impeach Trump and I think a lot of what they are doing right now is in preparation for that.

Does anyone here think that enough dirt will ever be found that can be used to remove Trump from office, and that he actually will be removed? Me either.
It's not about the evidence, truthfully I think we have enough already, Trump is mentally impaired.

The question is, when will the GOP figure out he's just as bad for them as he is for the Democrats?

I'm guessing that will be after the 2018 elections.
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Old 24th December 2017, 02:07 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Doesn't everyone here think both sides will do whatever it takes to win an election?
"Digging up dirt"??

There is a profound difference between digging up unpalatable facts, and just making stuff up out of wholesale nothingness.

You know - truth vs fiction.

The whole fake news brouhaha was never about unpalatable truth. It was about complete fiction which was presented and accepted as truth. One side of the political spectrum proved vastly more eager to accept fictions as truth - and it was not the left.

I would hope you could understand the difference.
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Old 24th December 2017, 03:02 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Doesn't everyone here think both sides will do whatever it takes to win an election? Neither side is more honest than the other. As long as they think they can't get caught they will do absolutely anything.

Right now it's the Dems digging up dirt on the Repubs because they still can't accept that Trump won. A lot of dirt was dug up by Repubs as well during the election - a whole lot. Both sides suck, get real.

Look at CNN attacking Trump - their website is littered with anti-Trump stuff every day. Pathetic. I see your fake news and raise you a CNN

The Dems want to impeach Trump and I think a lot of what they are doing right now is in preparation for that.

Does anyone here think that enough dirt will ever be found that can be used to remove Trump from office, and that he actually will be removed? Me either.
Both sides do bad things. One side still tends to do worse things more frequently than the other.

Basically it's like if 50% of Team A was corrupt and 80% of Team B was corrupt. Team B is probably going to do bigger ******** things more often than Team A even though both have problems. Please note those %'s are intended as an example only and not my opinion of literal corruption % in the parties.
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Old 24th December 2017, 05:03 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Sorry, you cannot compare Trump's pathological lying and the Republicans sucking up to him with the usual campaign lying.
I'm not sure it's fair to compare Trump's lying to any political party. Trump the GOP off guard just as much as the Democrats. The worrying part is how quickly Republicans fell into line behind Trump.
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Old 26th January 2018, 10:11 AM   #37
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I have been wondering what to make of this:

Experience: I write fake news
Quote:
At first, I was paid $20 for 1,000 words. As the site began to make more money, I got paid more; I now get triple my original rate. I have never met my client, but we talk once a month to set priorities. He is young, American and not into guns. We write under a number of pseudonyms that are designed to look trustworthy to right-leaning American gun enthusiasts: generally, retired men with links to the military. I write for about 15 hours a week, and make £2,400 a month. I donít have a contract, or any guarantee of ongoing work, but it suits me. I am still finishing that PhD.

Recently, weíve tried to boost the site up the Google rankings. This involves writing for other sites that are visited by gun enthusiasts, a lot of them pretty extreme, and sneaking in a link to our own site. This is against their rules, so you have to hide the link deep in the middle of a dense paragraph, so no one notices.

I write articles arguing that banning bump stocks, which enable semi-automatic guns to fire more rapidly, wonít prevent mass shootings and that the left skews statistics. I believe the opposite to be true.
Quote:
But I donít have a moral problem with it. I wish I had some snappy argument about why what Iím doing is not wrong. Iím furthering ignorance, certainly, and perhaps contributing to an atmosphere of hatred. But I donít think people have died as a result of my work. Perhaps I am more nihilistic than most, but in the end, itís a job and it pays well.
Real? Is this a Poe?
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Old 26th January 2018, 10:25 AM   #38
BStrong
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Originally Posted by sts60 View Post
Yes. It is sad. It would also be sad if a wayward B-52 dropped a full load of Mk. 82s on that little prick and his associates. Very sad.
I like the way you think.
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Old 26th January 2018, 10:35 AM   #39
Civet
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
I have been wondering what to make of this:

Experience: I write fake news




Real? Is this a Poe?
No way to know if that specific guy is lying, but nothing about that seemed obviously implausible. I've known a couple of people who do non-political ghostwriting for the internet and the process sounds similar. I've also hired writers online before and it's neither difficult nor expensive.
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Old 26th January 2018, 12:06 PM   #40
crescent
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Originally Posted by Civet View Post
No way to know if that specific guy is lying, but nothing about that seemed obviously implausible. I've known a couple of people who do non-political ghostwriting for the internet and the process sounds similar. I've also hired writers online before and it's neither difficult nor expensive.
Totally plausible. He fits the standard patterns we've seen in many other purveyors of false news.

Except.....


After the last election, I have a hard time thinking that any self-avowed liberal would fail to see the impact that right-wing-leaning fake new had. One would need to be a nihilist of of the Nth degree to see no harm in doing this (if one were actually liberal or progressive).

And then we had the O'Keefe/Verita's attempt to plant a false accuser against Roy Moore, so they could expose the false accuser and use that to discredit the real accusers.

Perhaps this belongs in CT land, but I wonder if it would be a viable arch-conservative tactic to create false news (because it works), but then have liberal sock-puppet personas set up to be blamed for the fake news stories that get "outed". They can say we liberals were planting false news so we could make conservatives look stupid and gullible.

Kind of a win-win strategy. Use fake news to motivate conservatives, blame it on the liberals when it gets exposed.

Last edited by crescent; 26th January 2018 at 12:09 PM.
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