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Old 26th January 2018, 12:57 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Civet View Post
No way to know if that specific guy is lying, but nothing about that seemed obviously implausible. I've known a couple of people who do non-political ghostwriting for the internet and the process sounds similar. I've also hired writers online before and it's neither difficult nor expensive.
Yep. I was at a get together for local genre writers on Tuesday night, and it was "Hands up if you get gigs on Upwork. Keep the hand up if you did something on Upwork that you think was sketchy?" Pretty much everybody who put their hand up kept it up.

Granted, some of that was werewolf porn and fake Yelp reviews for B&Bs, but there were some paid fictional political storytelling in there, too. And these people were all crunchy granola types... but the fact is, writing doesn't pay much and you take what you can get these days.
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Old 26th January 2018, 04:46 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
Teach everybody to check their sources, problem solved..
The root of the problem is more profound, I think.

Our sub-standard educational system, which has clearly failed not only urban centers, but rural America too, is ultimately going to bite us in the ass.

And I'm not complaining about the people running the sites -- the problem is that these sites find an audience at all. That is the failure and ultimate problem.
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Old 26th January 2018, 04:52 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
That's the underlying success of fake news, a lot of people don't want to check sources, they want the story they agree with to be true. Checking sources would ruin that.
To be honest, I think this is a skeptical myth. People who are misinformed do check their sources. They have different criteria than skeptics for evaluating good vs bad sources, is the problem.

"But your source is a creation science kook..."

"Yes, that's how I know I can trust it."
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Old 26th January 2018, 04:58 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
Yep. I was at a get together for local genre writers on Tuesday night, and it was "Hands up if you get gigs on Upwork. Keep the hand up if you did something on Upwork that you think was sketchy?" Pretty much everybody who put their hand up kept it up.

Granted, some of that was werewolf porn and fake Yelp reviews for B&Bs, but there were some paid fictional political storytelling in there, too. And these people were all crunchy granola types... but the fact is, writing doesn't pay much and you take what you can get these days.
*Raises hand*
*Puts hand down*

I write for a fairly narrow niche, so I don't swim at the political or social end of the pond. However, about half of the stuff I write is affiliate content, so...
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Old 26th January 2018, 05:01 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Varanid View Post
The root of the problem is more profound, I think.

Our sub-standard educational system, which has clearly failed not only urban centers, but rural America too, is ultimately going to bite us in the ass.

And I'm not complaining about the people running the sites -- the problem is that these sites find an audience at all. That is the failure and ultimate problem.
Specifically addressing the narrowly defined actual 'fake' news, I think the problem is that they often [deliberately spoof trusted news sites]. They use major network branding and deceptive URLs. For example, [ABCnews.com.co]
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Old 26th January 2018, 05:30 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
Granted, some of that was werewolf porn and fake Yelp reviews for B&Bs, but there were some paid fictional political storytelling in there, too. And these people were all crunchy granola types... but the fact is, writing doesn't pay much and you take what you can get these days.
That blows me away but maybe it shouldn't. I was never interested in telling lies for a living. I was very lucky and got paid to tell the truth.

A guy I knew was interviewed for a science magazine at a local restaurant. The writer described the scenes of bullfighters featured on the restaurant's walls. I was puzzled because somehow I knew, or found out, that they had actually eaten at a different restaurant. The writer just chose to set it there because she wanted to compare my friend to a bullfighter. Jesus. If it were me I would have met the guy at the bullfighting restaurant. No need to lie about it and this was a science magazine. So there you go.

I did once let a 3-legged dog beat me at a race because it made a better story if I let the dog win.
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Old 6th February 2018, 09:49 AM   #47
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Fake news in the US overwhelming consumed and shared by right wing social network users

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...sity-of-oxford
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Old 6th February 2018, 09:56 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Varanid View Post
The root of the problem is more profound, I think.

Our sub-standard educational system, which has clearly failed not only urban centers, but rural America too, is ultimately going to bite us in the ass.

And I'm not complaining about the people running the sites -- the problem is that these sites find an audience at all. That is the failure and ultimate problem.
While I certainly agree that making some improvements to our educational system would be a good idea, the strongly partisan bent to the fake news problem suggests to me that there's another factor at work that I'm failing to understand. Why is the right-wing seemingly more susceptible to this sort of thing right now?
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Old 6th February 2018, 10:01 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Civet View Post
While I certainly agree that making some improvements to our educational system would be a good idea, the strongly partisan bent to the fake news problem suggests to me that there's another factor at work that I'm failing to understand. Why is the right-wing seemingly more susceptible to this sort of thing right now?
Perhaps because regular news seem to disagree more with them, and they feel the need to cling on to something like alternate facts.

I don't think the right is more prone to this, all other things being equal.
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Old 6th February 2018, 10:10 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Perhaps because regular news seem to disagree more with them, and they feel the need to cling on to something like alternate facts.

I don't think the right is more prone to this, all other things being equal.
Makes sense. Maybe all of this could have been avoided if there was just a good major right-wing news outlet with proper journalistic standards and respect for the truth.
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Old 6th February 2018, 11:06 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Perhaps because regular news seem to disagree more with them, and they feel the need to cling on to something like alternate facts.

I don't think the right is more prone to this, all other things being equal.
I don’t think all other things are equal though. IMO Republicans have been systematically breaking down the normal barriers that keep people from going to fake news sources when real ones don’t support them. Democrats, therefor, are more likely to change their views based on real news reports whole Republicans have been conditioned to simply go find a source that agrees with them.

The attacks on real information dates back 25 years or more and we’ve already seen multiple generations of Republicans use it as a short term political tool only to find they can’t reel it back in and get removed when the next, more extreme, candidate comes along and uses the apparatus against them.
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Old 6th February 2018, 11:57 AM   #52
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An equitable expenditure of one's allotted lifespan
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Old 11th February 2018, 07:52 PM   #53
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Devin The Suckup Nunes has created his own Fake News site (I think the slogan is "Kissing Trump's Ass For Over a Hundredth of a Century) called The California Republican, which way down at the bottom in tiny print acknowledges that it's funded by the Nunes campaign.

Makes sense. Like his orange mentor he feels that if you don't like the news that's available, just create your own.
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Old 11th February 2018, 08:21 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Civet View Post
While I certainly agree that making some improvements to our educational system would be a good idea, the strongly partisan bent to the fake news problem suggests to me that there's another factor at work that I'm failing to understand. Why is the right-wing seemingly more susceptible to this sort of thing right now?
You can find some answers in this book:

'How Democracies Die' Authors Say Trump Is A Symptom Of 'Deeper Problems'
Quote:
Harvard professors Steven Levitsky and Daniel Ziblatt are experts in what makes democracies healthy — and what leads to their collapse. They warn that American democracy is in trouble.
If you have the time the book talk by these two authors on C-Span Book TV is well worth your use of it. Or you can read the transcript at the site.

The professors did a thorough job of analyzing the elements of extreme bipartisanship and the consequences where one gets a Trump because no matter how awful the candidate, the fear mongering of the other side means people will vote for anything other than the other side.
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Old 11th February 2018, 08:23 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
I don’t think all other things are equal though.
This ^

Quote:
IMO Republicans have been systematically breaking down the normal barriers that keep people from going to fake news sources when real ones don’t support them. Democrats, therefor, are more likely to change their views based on real news reports whole Republicans have been conditioned to simply go find a source that agrees with them.

The attacks on real information dates back 25 years or more and we’ve already seen multiple generations of Republicans use it as a short term political tool only to find they can’t reel it back in and get removed when the next, more extreme, candidate comes along and uses the apparatus against them.
And all of this. ^
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Old 11th February 2018, 09:40 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I don't think the right is more prone to this, all other things being equal.
You are wrong. The right is more prone to this, because that's how their brains work.

Political Orientations Are Correlated with Brain Structure
Quote:
the amplitude of event-related potentials reflecting neural activity associated with conflict monitoring in the anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) is greater for liberals compared to conservatives [4]. Thus, stronger liberalism is associated with increased sensitivity to cues for altering a habitual response pattern
Conservatives don't embrace anything that reinforces their political views because they are stupid or lacking a good education - they do it because their brains are 'wired' that way. It's why they are conservative.
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Old 15th February 2018, 02:52 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You can find some answers in this book:

'How Democracies Die' Authors Say Trump Is A Symptom Of 'Deeper Problems'

If you have the time the book talk by these two authors on C-Span Book TV is well worth your use of it. Or you can read the transcript at the site.

The professors did a thorough job of analyzing the elements of extreme bipartisanship and the consequences where one gets a Trump because no matter how awful the candidate, the fear mongering of the other side means people will vote for anything other than the other side.
Thanks for this. Finally got a chance to watch the video and found it useful. I'll probably get around to reading the book later.
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Old 21st February 2018, 05:15 AM   #58
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A brand new Dutch-British attempt at teaching young people about fake news in the form of a game where you play the role of somebody producing and distributing fake news:

Quote:
we have chosen to cover the most common aspects of it in the game. The game breaks down into 6 badges: impersonation, emotion, polarization, conspiracy, discredit, and trolling.

https://www.aboutbadnews.com
https://www.getbadnews.com/#intro
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Old 21st February 2018, 09:03 AM   #59
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As to the OP, .....and Fox and Breitbart are proof of that!!!!!
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Old 21st February 2018, 10:59 AM   #60
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There is a big blowup on Twitter now because, apparently, Twitter admin is "deleting conservative twitter accounts."

Of course, that's not what they did. What they actually did was to delete accounts that were fake accounts. There are users complaining that they lost 5000 followers in the purge, or have lost access to 5000 accounts that they were following.

Not coincidentally, this affected mostly conservatives.

Instead of thinking, man, there were a lot of right-wing bots out there, they are complaining about the loss of followers.
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Old 21st February 2018, 11:05 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
There is a big blowup on Twitter now because, apparently, Twitter admin is "deleting conservative twitter accounts."

Of course, that's not what they did. What they actually did was to delete accounts that were fake accounts. There are users complaining that they lost 5000 followers in the purge, or have lost access to 5000 accounts that they were following.

Not coincidentally, this affected mostly conservatives.

Instead of thinking, man, there were a lot of right-wing bots out there, they are complaining about the loss of followers.
But how will they know what to think if they don't have russian bots to tell them?
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Old 21st February 2018, 11:53 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
There is a big blowup on Twitter now because, apparently, Twitter admin is "deleting conservative twitter accounts."

Of course, that's not what they did. What they actually did was to delete accounts that were fake accounts. There are users complaining that they lost 5000 followers in the purge, or have lost access to 5000 accounts that they were following.

Not coincidentally, this affected mostly conservatives.

Instead of thinking, man, there were a lot of right-wing bots out there, they are complaining about the loss of followers.
No-one wants to admit to being a sucker.
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Old 21st February 2018, 11:57 AM   #63
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As far as "digging up dirt" is concerned, surely if the dirt is (a) true and (b) even vaguely relevant then that is a good thing? It used to be called investigative journalism.

If politician X is a crook, I'd like to know before I elect or re-elect them.
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Old 18th November 2018, 07:36 AM   #64
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‘Nothing on this page is real’: How lies become truth in online America

Quote:
“BREAKING,” he wrote, pecking out each letter with his index fingers as he considered the possibilities. Maybe he would announce that Hillary Clinton had died during a secret overseas mission to smuggle more refugees into America. Maybe he would award President Trump the Nobel Peace Prize for his courage in denying climate change.

A new message popped onto Blair’s screen from a friend who helped with his website. “What viral insanity should we spread this morning?” the friend asked.

“The more extreme we become, the more people believe it,” Blair replied.

He had launched his new website on Facebook during the 2016 presidential campaign as a practical joke among friends — a political satire site started by Blair and a few other liberal bloggers who wanted to make fun of what they considered to be extremist ideas spreading throughout the far right. In the last two years on his page, America’s Last Line of Defense, Blair had made up stories about California instituting sharia, former president Bill Clinton becoming a serial killer, undocumented immigrants defacing Mount Rushmore, and former president Barack Obama dodging the Vietnam draft when he was 9. “Share if you’re outraged!” his posts often read, and thousands of people on Facebook had clicked “like” and then “share,” most of whom did not recognize his posts as satire. Instead, Blair’s page had become one of the most popular on Facebook among Trump-supporting conservatives over 55.

“Nothing on this page is real,” read one of the 14 disclaimers on Blair’s site, and yet in the America of 2018 his stories had become real, reinforcing people’s biases, spreading onto Macedonian and Russian fake news sites, amassing an audience of as many 6 million visitors each month who thought his posts were factual. What Blair had first conceived of as an elaborate joke was beginning to reveal something darker. “No matter how racist, how bigoted, how offensive, how obviously fake we get, people keep coming back,” Blair once wrote, on his own personal Facebook page. “Where is the edge? Is there ever a point where people realize they’re being fed garbage and decide to return to reality?”
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Old 18th November 2018, 01:41 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Apparently you can make crazy up....
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Old 18th November 2018, 02:43 PM   #66
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Re:

Quote:
'No matter how racist, how bigoted, how offensive, how obviously fake we get, people keep coming back,' Blair once wrote, on his own personal Facebook page. "Where is the edge? Is there ever a point where people realize they’re being fed garbage and decide to return to reality?"
Is there a strategy for detaching Trump supporters from their fake news addiction without them having to admit that they have been grossly misled?

Also, why the bump (I ask as I bump)?
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Old 18th November 2018, 08:20 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Re:

Is there a strategy for detaching Trump supporters from their fake news addiction without them having to admit that they have been grossly misled?

Also, why the bump (I ask as I bump)?
Some advice on how to go about breaking the habit:

https://www.theopennotebook.com/2017...out-fake-news/

Advance warning: it will take empathizing with them to a certain degree, to understand where they are coming from.
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Old 18th November 2018, 09:34 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
As far as "digging up dirt" is concerned, surely if the dirt is (a) true and (b) even vaguely relevant then that is a good thing? It used to be called investigative journalism.

If politician X is a crook, I'd like to know before I elect or re-elect them.
"True" and "relevant" would in fact be traditional journalism. The problem is when sites promote "dirt" that is either outright false, or partly or even mostly true but presented in a way that creates a false or misleading impression.
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Old 18th November 2018, 11:17 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Apparently you can make crazy up....
You can even pretend to be President of the USA! cRaZy!!
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Old 27th November 2018, 04:46 AM   #70
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Great article about the industry: The godfather of fake news - Meet one of the world’s most prolific writers of disinformation (BBC News)
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