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Tags donald trump , immigration issues , Trump controversies

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Old 7th November 2018, 03:57 AM   #321
ponderingturtle
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
Trump will not kill them. Incarceration in an effort to try to keep these illegals out is not an atrocity. Its the illegals fault for being here illegally in the first place.

Russia and China might do what you just described but not America.
Exactly we need to take the kids away from all law breakers. Get a parking indefinite detention for you! That is really the only way to send messages to people who think america is the land of the free and home of the brave. We are not! We hate the idea that people would flee here seeking freedom, and we will drive them back to their killers. That is why sending jews back to hitler really should be a proud moment in american history.
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Old 7th November 2018, 05:15 AM   #322
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Exactly we need to take the kids away from all law breakers. Get a parking indefinite detention for you! That is really the only way to send messages to people who think america is the land of the free and home of the brave. We are not! We hate the idea that people would flee here seeking freedom, and we will drive them back to their killers. That is why sending jews back to hitler really should be a proud moment in american history.
Do you speak any other language besides hyperstraw?
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Old 7th November 2018, 05:33 AM   #323
wareyin
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
So is it more reasonable to assume that this guy's problems arose from the fact all his workforce disappeared literally overnight - a fact as reported by the article, or that he is completely unable to get 60 legal workers to work on his farm despite there being no evidence that this is the case? Does it even sound likely that a viable business cannot survive with breaking the law?
You do realize that the article reported that he couldn't get more than 2 workers, and that couple was stealing from him, right? If so, can you understand that 2 is less than 60? If so (and I know we're going out on a limb, here), the article has reported that he is completely unable to get 60 legal workers. Whether or not it sounds like a viable business, it certainly sounds like a typical farm that doesn't grow crops that are easily harvested mechanically. And it most certainly sounds like a farm with crops rotting in the field for lack of the only workers willing and able to do the job, in this case illegal immigrants, which is what you asked for.


Originally Posted by baron View Post
And I don't know why you would come out with that 'evil reverse racist' crap. He said himself that he prefers to employ Hispanics,
No, he did not. You added that bit in there.
Originally Posted by baron View Post
and that his workforce was almost totally Hispanic. If you're even interested in my view as opposed to making stuff up in lieu of a coherent argument be informed that I fully support his freedom to employ whatever race, ethnicity, colour or gender of people he wants, more power to him. Only the loony left would seek to intrude into his business and instruct him to employ more of these and less of these in the interests of 'quotas' and 'diversity'.

Hell, for all I care he can employ all the illegals he wants. None of my business. But that doesn't mean he is forced to employ them in order for his farm to survive, which is my point; it simply means that so far he's taken the easy option and now he must work within the law he's looking at tighter margins.
By your logic, I am not forced to take an airplane or ship to travel from the US to Europe, I'm just taking the easy option rather than swimming. USA farms that grow crops not suited for mechanical harvests are dependent on a cheap labor force that migrates for hundreds of miles for temporary jobs. Your friends with the money to pay thousands of dollars to fly to Australia for a summer job aren't willing to come here and do it.
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Old 7th November 2018, 06:39 AM   #324
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
That's only for hops.
!!??
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Old 7th November 2018, 06:42 AM   #325
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
Trump will not kill them. Incarceration in an effort to try to keep these illegals out is not an atrocity. Its the illegals fault for being here illegally in the first place.

Russia and China might do what you just described but not America.
If you actually want to get rid of illegal immigration, then simply stop hiring immigrants who are here illegally like Trump has done so many times in the past.
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Old 7th November 2018, 07:10 AM   #326
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
!!??
https://www.yakimavalleyhops.com/Vic...1-2018crop.htm
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Old 7th November 2018, 07:38 AM   #327
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
You do realize that the article reported that he couldn't get more than 2 workers, and that couple was stealing from him, right?
Wrong. Again you post the strange ideas you found in the back of your brain as opposed to what it actually says in the article.

Quote:
Since the new law began two weeks ago only two American citizens have come by his farm asking for work. The couple had driven two hours from a city to offer their services...
Perhaps we have a difference in work ethic here, but I see a difference in trying my best to recruit workers and sitting on my arse waiting for a bunch to knock on my door.

Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
If so, can you understand that 2 is less than 60? If so (and I know we're going out on a limb, here), the article has reported that he is completely unable to get 60 legal workers.
Again, you made this up. Have you even seen the article in question?

Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Whether or not it sounds like a viable business, it certainly sounds like a typical farm that doesn't grow crops that are easily harvested mechanically. And it most certainly sounds like a farm with crops rotting in the field for lack of the only workers willing and able to do the job, in this case illegal immigrants, which is what you asked for.
Everything you have said so far is wrong...

Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
No, he did not. You added that bit in there.
...and it's a trend that continues.

Quote:
Somebody who really wants a good job and is prepared to work hard and honest for it isn't going to come up here for four months in the year. But Hispanics will do that, and move on to Florida when the picking's finished."
So in his own words he prefers Hispanics because they are willing to move to where the work is.

Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
By your logic, I am not forced to take an airplane or ship to travel from the US to Europe, I'm just taking the easy option rather than swimming.
Is that meant to be an analogy, or...

Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
USA farms that grow crops not suited for mechanical harvests are dependent on a cheap labor force that migrates for hundreds of miles for temporary jobs. Your friends with the money to pay thousands of dollars to fly to Australia for a summer job aren't willing to come here and do it.
One of them went to Australia, just an extreme example, and it did not cost "thousands" of anything. Two others went to Tenerife. Those flights cost the price of a couple of airport coffees. Just shows you're out of touch.
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Old 7th November 2018, 08:07 AM   #328
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We seem rather far afield of the subject "Trump announces new concentration camps."
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Old 7th November 2018, 08:15 AM   #329
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
We seem rather far afield of the subject "Trump announces new concentration camps."
Depends. If he'd put the camps in the middle of farmland and have the folks there pick strawberries to earn their keep, well...
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Old 7th November 2018, 12:30 PM   #330
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Wrong. Again you post the strange ideas you found in the back of your brain as opposed to what it actually says in the article.



Perhaps we have a difference in work ethic here, but I see a difference in trying my best to recruit workers and sitting on my arse waiting for a bunch to knock on my door.



Again, you made this up. Have you even seen the article in question?
Yes. You actually just quoted the article saying exactly what I claimed (only 2 legal workers). I'm sure this means over 60 in Baron land, but I'm going to stick with 2 being less than 60.



Quote:
Everything you have said so far is wrong...



...and it's a trend that continues.



So in his own words he prefers Hispanics because they are willing to move to where the work is.
Except for the bit about preference, which is what I called you on already. I guess in Baron land saying a certain group is the only one who will do the job is somehow a claim of preference, just like 2=60 or more?



Quote:
Is that meant to be an analogy, or...
You certainly seem confused. Judging by your abysmal understanding of the article in question as well as American farming practices, that state is to be expected.


Quote:
One of them went to Australia, just an extreme example, and it did not cost "thousands" of anything. Two others went to Tenerife. Those flights cost the price of a couple of airport coffees. Just shows you're out of touch.
I see. So your friends are being flown around the world to bartend with the bar paying the thousands for flights? They must be some impressive bartenders! Every bar I've been in has been able to employ locals. Is Australia suffering a shortage of people who can pour a pint?
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Old 7th November 2018, 01:01 PM   #331
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Exactly we need to take the kids away from all law breakers. Get a parking indefinite detention for you! That is really the only way to send messages to people who think america is the land of the free and home of the brave. We are not! We hate the idea that people would flee here seeking freedom, and we will drive them back to their killers.
That's some warped thinking right there. We need millions of desperately poor people in this country to help pull down wages for those who are on the lower end of socioeconomic strata--primarily African Americans and recent non-White immigrants. Flooding traditionally poor black neighborhoods with illegal foreigners who don't speak English, will work for peanuts, and who tap into the finite funds available for welfare benefits creates resentment and conflict. Rich White people benefit tremendously from this situation. We get cheap labor AND it helps to keep the darkies in their place. It's a win win all around. Remember: if you hate black people, you have to love open borders!

Quote:
That is why sending jews back to hitler really should be a proud moment in american history.
I have to disagree with you. White people not helping White people is never a source of pride. But to be fair, if the Jews hadn't been videotaped storming border crossings before reaching the United States, acting like we didn't have the right to refuse them proudly waving Nazi party banners when they tried to get off the ship, it would've been easier for our immigration officials to believe that these Jews actually had something to fear from Hitler.
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Old 7th November 2018, 02:59 PM   #332
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
We seem rather far afield of the subject "Trump announces new concentration camps."
True, but we have learned a lot about hops production down under. So, there's that.
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Old 7th November 2018, 03:19 PM   #333
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Yes. You actually just quoted the article saying exactly what I claimed (only 2 legal workers). I'm sure this means over 60 in Baron land, but I'm going to stick with 2 being less than 60.
Let me remind you. You stated that "The article has reported that he is completely unable to get 60 legal workers."

I pointed out that that article actually says nothing of the sort, stating only that two people turned up at his farm and offered their services and it didn't work out. In other words, you made it up. Your claim is entirely fabricated, I have no idea why you'd want to lie about something so blatant.

And your persistent playground jibes about me not knowing that two is less than 60 aren't really helping your case (and to be honest, I don't even recall kindergarten being host to insults so lame).

Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Except for the bit about preference, which is what I called you on already. I guess in Baron land saying a certain group is the only one who will do the job is somehow a claim of preference, just like 2=60 or more?
You're very proud of your "two is less than 60" joke, aren't you? How many times have you repeated it now? Three? Four? I'm sorry I don't have any gold stars to give you.

Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
You certainly seem confused. Judging by your abysmal understanding of the article in question as well as American farming practices, that state is to be expected.
This is genuinely embarrassing.

Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
I see. So your friends are being flown around the world to bartend with the bar paying the thousands for flights? They must be some impressive bartenders! Every bar I've been in has been able to employ locals. Is Australia suffering a shortage of people who can pour a pint?
No, you don't understand. Maybe you've never flown before. When I say the flights (aside from the one to Australia) cost the price of two airport coffees I was speaking literally. And as for bars having the option to employ only locals during the holiday season - LOL! And that's all I'll say about that as it's OT.
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Old 7th November 2018, 08:28 PM   #334
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
We seem rather far afield of the subject "Trump announces new concentration camps."
Look at where you are. I've seen this forum turn a thread about porn into a discussion about chess and Star Trek.
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Old 8th November 2018, 05:34 AM   #335
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Let me remind you. You stated that "The article has reported that he is completely unable to get 60 legal workers."

I pointed out that that article actually says nothing of the sort, stating only that two people turned up at his farm and offered their services and it didn't work out. In other words, you made it up. Your claim is entirely fabricated, I have no idea why you'd want to lie about something so blatant.
I'm snipping your whines about your obvious 2<60 mistake being pointed out, but you just can't help but keep making that mistake, can you? The man was only able to get 2 workers, temporarily. What part of that makes him able to get 60? Or are you hanging your hat on the possibility of shanghai-ing people into picking crops for him?


Originally Posted by baron View Post
No, you don't understand. Maybe you've never flown before. When I say the flights (aside from the one to Australia) cost the price of two airport coffees I was speaking literally. And as for bars having the option to employ only locals during the holiday season - LOL! And that's all I'll say about that as it's OT.
I've flown. I've never flown for the cost of 2 airport coffees, though. Maybe they were really expensive airport coffees? I usually pay pretty modest sums for what I consume at airports, a bit more than outside, but nowhere near the cost of a flight. Please, do continue, as this part of your story is far more entertaining than your thoughts about kidnapping people to work the fields.
...wait, were these bartenders kidnapped and forced to fly thousands of miles to tend bar in Australia and the like? Are patrons so abusive at these bars that they literally cannot find local people willing to work there? And if a bar is willing to kidnap people from 9000 miles away to force them to work for a summer, why wouldn't a tomato farmer in Alabama, right?
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Old 8th November 2018, 05:46 AM   #336
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
Look at where you are. I've seen this forum turn a thread about porn into a discussion about chess and Star Trek.
Aren't those three related subjects.
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Old 8th November 2018, 06:06 AM   #337
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The problem with these scenarios is that getting raided by ICE and having your workforce disappear overnight is still a fairly low risk event. A single firm might get unlucky, but the entire industry isn't going to change. Someone who got raided (or just wants to be honest) and now only wants to employ more expensive, legal labor will find themselves unable to compete in a market where the competition has cheaper, illegal labor.
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Old 8th November 2018, 07:17 AM   #338
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The problem with these scenarios is that getting raided by ICE and having your workforce disappear overnight is still a fairly low risk event. A single firm might get unlucky, but the entire industry isn't going to change. Someone who got raided (or just wants to be honest) and now only wants to employ more expensive, legal labor will find themselves unable to compete in a market where the competition has cheaper, illegal labor.
Indeed. So illegal labour is the problem, not the solution.
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Old 8th November 2018, 07:28 AM   #339
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
I'm snipping your whines about your obvious 2<60 mistake being pointed out, but you just can't help but keep making that mistake, can you? The man was only able to get 2 workers, temporarily. What part of that makes him able to get 60? Or are you hanging your hat on the possibility of shanghai-ing people into picking crops for him?
Difficult to believe you're digging this hole for yourself. If an employer sits on his arse and two people turn up at his door under their own steam, why in the name of all that is holy would you imagine he couldn't actually recruit more people if he went into the nearest town, or posted ads, or indulged in practices that almost every business on earth utilises when they need staff? For reasons unknown this logic escapes you and you maintain the only way he can get legal employees is to kidnap people off the street! Your argument is totally unhinged, off the deep end.

Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
I've flown. I've never flown for the cost of 2 airport coffees, though. Maybe they were really expensive airport coffees? I usually pay pretty modest sums for what I consume at airports, a bit more than outside, but nowhere near the cost of a flight. Please, do continue, as this part of your story is far more entertaining than your thoughts about kidnapping people to work the fields.
What, do you want me to give you a biscuit for failing to Google the price of flights from the UK?

Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
...wait, were these bartenders kidnapped and forced to fly thousands of miles to tend bar in Australia and the like? Are patrons so abusive at these bars that they literally cannot find local people willing to work there? And if a bar is willing to kidnap people from 9000 miles away to force them to work for a summer, why wouldn't a tomato farmer in Alabama, right?
There's nothing I can add to highlight the lunacy of your post more than you yourself have done.
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Old 8th November 2018, 07:29 AM   #340
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
Look at where you are. I've seen this forum turn a thread about porn into a discussion about chess and Star Trek.
It' more fun the other way around.
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Old 8th November 2018, 07:44 AM   #341
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
That'll be because he was offering legal workers wages that only illegal workers will accept. If he is unable to pay a fair wage and succeed then he doesn't have a viable business. Exploitation of labour is not a plus point for any sort of immigration.
Putting aside the specifics of the cited article... for better and/or for worse, regardless if we think it's sensible, regardless if we think it's fair, US agriculture depends on illegal farm workers. This has been so for generations, with government and business operating under status quo on a wink-wink nudge-nudge basis. This long-running, highly controversial "problem" could be stopped by imposing strict sanctions on employers. Yet that never happens.
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Old 8th November 2018, 07:48 AM   #342
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Difficult to believe you're digging this hole for yourself. If an employer sits on his arse and two people turn up at his door under their own steam, why in the name of all that is holy would you imagine he couldn't actually recruit more people if he went into the nearest town, or posted ads, or indulged in practices that almost every business on earth utilises when they need staff? For reasons unknown this logic escapes you and you maintain the only way he can get legal employees is to kidnap people off the street! Your argument is totally unhinged, off the deep end.
Oh, so now you are claiming that the farm owner wasn't running ads or doing any sort of recruitment? Well that's something new you've added that also isn't supported by the article. Let's nipp this bit of dishonesty in the bud before you get further, shall we? How do you think the 2 thieves knew to drive 2 hours to his farm for work, if he was not advertising a need for workers?



Quote:
What, do you want me to give you a biscuit for failing to Google the price of flights from the UK?
Why would I do that? I'm not in the UK, the article has nothing to do with flights from the UK, and you made no mention of your friend's flights other than where they landed. Add to all that, apparently you are assuming that I would have known, or guessed, that you are in the UK, and/or your friends are, but I assure you that if I ever read where you are from, I didn't care enough to remember that.



Quote:
There's nothing I can add to highlight the lunacy of your post more than you yourself have done.
Oh, come on, your story just needed a little goosing to make it more interesting. I don't think the kidnapping made it any less believable than free 9000 mile flights.

Last edited by wareyin; 8th November 2018 at 07:54 AM. Reason: Oh, autocorrect, you make my life fun!
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Old 8th November 2018, 07:52 AM   #343
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Let's nipples this bit of dishonesty in the bud
Yes, please. Nipples it.
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Old 8th November 2018, 07:56 AM   #344
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Yes, please. Nipples it.
Dangit, I was hoping I corrected that before anyone noticed! My phone can autocorrect to the most interesting words!
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Old 8th November 2018, 08:01 AM   #345
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Does that mean I can forget about getting those sexy pictures now?
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Old 13th November 2018, 11:11 AM   #346
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Mind if I ask? Why wasn't this immigration thing an issue in 2014? How is even talk of enforcing immigration laws ONLY an issue now that Trump is involved? Inquiring minds would like to know?

The way I see it, nobody actually wants illegal immigration solved. If you actually fix the laws and enforce them according to ideal practice we would be one issue less to blame someone on...
*nobody collectively referring to politicians in particular. Not "everyone"


Dont even get me started on the OP. I can't take that sort of hawkish fear mongering seriously
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Old 13th November 2018, 11:26 AM   #347
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Originally Posted by Grizzly Bear View Post
Mind if I ask? Why wasn't this immigration thing an issue in 2014? How is even talk of enforcing immigration laws ONLY an issue now that Trump is involved? Inquiring minds would like to know?

The way I see it, nobody actually wants illegal immigration solved. If you actually fix the laws and enforce them according to ideal practice we would be one issue less to blame someone on...
*nobody collectively referring to politicians in particular. Not "everyone"


Dont even get me started on the OP. I can't take that sort of hawkish fear mongering seriously
It was an issue in 2014. Trump and his supporters have escalated the issue. It's a main plank for them. And Trump introduced the plan for zero tolerance.
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Old 13th November 2018, 11:40 AM   #348
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Originally Posted by Grizzly Bear View Post
The way I see it, nobody actually wants illegal immigration solved.
That's really not true. There are powerful interests in both parties that feel this way, but plenty of people don't.
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Old 13th November 2018, 11:45 AM   #349
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Well, Republicans consistently do the opposite of what experts suggest should be done to fix immigration.
They would listen if they actually wanted a working solution.
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Old 13th November 2018, 11:46 AM   #350
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
It was an issue in 2014. Trump and his supporters have escalated the issue. It's a main plank for them. And Trump introduced the plan for zero tolerance.
It's so zero tolerance, it has not tolerance for perfectly legal border crossings. That's, like, negative tolerance.
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Old 13th November 2018, 11:51 AM   #351
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
We seem rather far afield of the subject "Trump announces new concentration camps."
To the degree that the discussion is grounded in reality, yes, we do seem to have strayed substantially from the thread title.
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Old 13th November 2018, 11:57 AM   #352
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
It's so zero tolerance, it has not tolerance for perfectly legal border crossings. That's, like, negative tolerance.
That's because in his mind and many of his supporters, everyone south if the border is an illegal immigrant, even if they're not here yet
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Old 13th November 2018, 01:04 PM   #353
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
That's really not true. There are powerful interests in both parties that feel this way, but plenty of people don't.
See my addendum. Figured the way I initially wrote could be taken that way
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Old 13th November 2018, 01:08 PM   #354
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Hell remember republicans couldn't even pass their own immigration bill in the house with control of the house.
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Old 13th November 2018, 01:36 PM   #355
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Hell remember republicans couldn't even pass their own immigration bill in the house with control of the house.
Neither could Obama(he campaigned promising immigration reform in his first year as President) with control of the house and a 60-vote filibuster-proof Senate majority. Remember?
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Old 13th November 2018, 02:59 PM   #356
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The complaints about doing that reform and for that matter ripping kids from their parents' arms (I.E. detaining them as well) seems forgotten at least to the party. The zero tolerance policy is essentially enforcement of the laws on the books. We're having this discussion about immigration forgetting that there have been opportunities to change the existing law for over a decade and the opportunity to do so was never seized upon even on at least two periods where an interested political party had a decent majority making them capable of changing the laws if they took the initiative
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Old 13th November 2018, 04:22 PM   #357
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Originally Posted by Grizzly Bear View Post
The complaints about doing that reform and for that matter ripping kids from their parents' arms (I.E. detaining them as well) seems forgotten at least to the party. The zero tolerance policy is essentially enforcement of the laws on the books. We're having this discussion about immigration forgetting that there have been opportunities to change the existing law for over a decade and the opportunity to do so was never seized upon even on at least two periods where an interested political party had a decent majority making them capable of changing the laws if they took the initiative
New policies were written by the administration.
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Old 14th November 2018, 07:51 AM   #358
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Originally Posted by Grizzly Bear View Post
The complaints about doing that reform and for that matter ripping kids from their parents' arms (I.E. detaining them as well) seems forgotten at least to the party. The zero tolerance policy is essentially enforcement of the laws on the books. We're having this discussion about immigration forgetting that there have been opportunities to change the existing law for over a decade and the opportunity to do so was never seized upon even on at least two periods where an interested political party had a decent majority making them capable of changing the laws if they took the initiative
No it isn't. Because the enforcing of those laws, which are civil statues never had anything to do with mass incarceration. See previous policies with unaccompanied minors where they tried to find relatives and such now it is right to the camps with them.

We need strict enforcement of all traffic tickets now too. Lock up the whole family until their day in court, that is what the people want.
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Old 14th November 2018, 06:26 PM   #359
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Originally Posted by bytewizard View Post
Neither could Obama(he campaigned promising immigration reform in his first year as President) with control of the house and a 60-vote filibuster-proof Senate majority. Remember?
They never had a 60-vote majority. The closest they ever came was fifty-nine Senators and Joe "I vigorously oppose legislation I supported yesterday because it turns out liberals like it" Lieberman...
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Old 25th November 2018, 07:07 PM   #360
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So now we have the United States using chemical weapons against starving, shoeless children. All the while right wingers laugh and laugh at their pain all over social media.



Anyone still want to defend the notion we aren't on the precipice of a new holocaust?
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