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Tags George H.W. Bush , obituaries

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Old 3rd December 2018, 11:11 AM   #81
TragicMonkey
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
The economy didn't help. But the candidacy of H. Ross Perot was what really finished him off, which I strongly suspect was exactly what it was intended to do.
I remember how at the time people made fun of Perot because America would never elect an elderly boorish crackpot with no experience and no qualifications apart from having a lot of money.
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Old 3rd December 2018, 11:14 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I remember how at the time people made fun of Perot because America would never elect an elderly boorish crackpot with no experience and no qualifications apart from having a lot of money.
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I AGREE


I thought that version was more appropriate than Dylan's.
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Old 3rd December 2018, 11:15 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
That is not clear to me from the discussion above. As far as I am aware, HW had nothing substantial to do with setting up the camp in Gitmo. Nor am I aware of any war crimes he could be accused of with regards to the first gulf war. The invasion of Panama though, is a different story - which hasn't even been brought up.
The Gitmo discussion was about Jr.


One article on war crimes committed by Sr in the first gulf war. Also, see this. And from another angle.

And yes on Panama.
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Old 3rd December 2018, 11:19 AM   #84
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He certainly lived quite a life.

RIP.
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Old 3rd December 2018, 11:20 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
I don't think "[W]e have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait.” means "Yeah, sure, invade. Go to town!"
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Old 3rd December 2018, 12:15 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
I don't think "[W]e have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait.” means "Yeah, sure, invade. Go to town!"
I dunno...

Quote:
I told him that if he made it clear in an address that occupation of Kuwait meant an all out US military effort to drive them out of the country and that we would not necessarily stop at the border between Iraq and Kuwait that they would withdraw because they knew they could not fight the US successfully.

His response was that he did not want them to withdraw because they must be punished for aggression.
And CE is right - right after that the "incubator babies" entered the picture.

Also:

https://billmoyers.com/2014/06/27/th...-pack-of-lies/
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Old 3rd December 2018, 12:22 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Meh, all Bushes were the same.

At least to some people.

I was puzzled there trying to figure out how Gitmo worked into the first Gulf war. Or the whole incubator babies thing worked in with WMD. Lots of confusion in this thread.

Bush, isn't he they guy that tried but failed to rescue the hostages in Iran? Or was that Ford? Maybe it was Nell Carter.
This thread has become a trainwreck, frankly.
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Old 3rd December 2018, 12:24 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
The economy didn't help. But the candidacy of H. Ross Perot was what really finished him off, which I strongly suspect was exactly what it was intended to do.
That was a rumor at the time: That Perot hated Bush from a long standing personal feud in Texas Politics, and his main purpose in entering the race was to sing Bush.
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Old 3rd December 2018, 12:28 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
I don't think "[W]e have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait.” means "Yeah, sure, invade. Go to town!"
There you go again, killing a beautiful little theory with a nasty little fact.
The whole "Bush Sr. signaled Saddam the US would not interfere with a invasion of Kuwati " theory is really silly. Yes, the statement was badly phrased, but interpreting it as a green light for Saddam to annex Kuwait is bat crap c razy.
A lot of hypocrisy in this thread, with people on the left indulging in behavior for which they condemn people on the right.
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Old 3rd December 2018, 12:32 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
There you go again, killing a beautiful little theory with a nasty little fact.
The whole "Bush Sr. signaled Saddam the US would not interfere with a invasion of Kuwati " theory is really silly. Yes, the statement was badly phrased, but interpreting it as a green light for Saddam to annex Kuwait is bat crap c razy.
A lot of hypocrisy in this thread, with people on the left indulging in behavior for which they condemn people on the right.
What do the words "he did not want them to withdraw" mean?
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Old 3rd December 2018, 12:40 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
May the heavens forgive me but... Bush II impressed me as ignorant, in over his head, fact-challenged, and as a person who made one of the biggest mistakes in modern history, one that will echo across time. At the same time he impressed me as a "gentleman" and a decent human being.
I've said this many times.

GWB wasn't stupid, he was incurious.

GHWB was neither. Don't underestimate enemies.

Rest in Peace.
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Old 3rd December 2018, 12:42 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
What do the words "he did not want them to withdraw" mean?
That he wanted a baby?
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Old 3rd December 2018, 12:56 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
That he wanted a baby?
This thread is supposed to be a hagiography for a fine servant of the Dark Lord, TM, not an episode of Family Guy.

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Old 3rd December 2018, 01:12 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
The underlined, evidence please?
I'm guessing that SOdhner refers, in part, to the Willie Horton ad.
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Old 3rd December 2018, 01:16 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
That was a rumor at the time: That Perot hated Bush from a long standing personal feud in Texas Politics, and his main purpose in entering the race was to sing Bush.
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Old 3rd December 2018, 02:46 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
I dunno...



And CE is right - right after that the "incubator babies" entered the picture.

Also:

https://billmoyers.com/2014/06/27/th...-pack-of-lies/
Who are you quoting?
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Old 3rd December 2018, 02:49 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Who are you quoting?
From here. I linked to a post linking to it a few posts back.
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Old 3rd December 2018, 03:04 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
From here. I linked to a post linking to it a few posts back.
Who is making that statement?
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Old 3rd December 2018, 03:09 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
From here. I linked to a post linking to it a few posts back.

What Lang says here about his own exchanges with Bush is completely uncontroversial in the form he worded it: "I told him that Saddam had been allowed to think that we would not defend Kuwait by the wavering and ambiguous statements made before the Iraqi invasion."

There's enough known about US conversations with Saddam previous to the invasion, especially by Ambassador April Glaspie, to make this a statement completely on the safe side of facts.
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Old 3rd December 2018, 03:13 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Who is making that statement?

Click on "About" under the picture in the right column of the website. He's talking here to his intimate circle of fellow military intelligence veterans with a couple of geopolitics pundits lurking.
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Old 3rd December 2018, 04:05 PM   #101
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https://www.khou.com/article/news/po.../285-619418112
CBS confirmed that President Donald Trump will designate December 5 as a National Day of Mourning for former President George H.W. Bush.

At work me and everyone else got an e-mail saying President Trump issued an EO declaring a day of mourning on December 5th.

Quote:
The President issued an Executive Order designating December 5, 2018, as a national day of mourning for President George H. W. Bush and a federal holiday.
I've yet to find out if I'll get the holiday pay (16 hours pay for an 8 hour shift) or get the day off. If there are 2.7 million civil service employed by the feds and they average $20/hour, then this is a big price tag at $54M.

Ranb

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Old 3rd December 2018, 04:36 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
https://www.khou.com/article/news/po.../285-619418112
CBS confirmed that President Donald Trump will designate December 5 as a National Day of Mourning for former President George H.W. Bush.

At work me and everyone else got an e-mail saying President Trump issued an EO declaring a day of mourning on December 5th.



I've yet to find out if I'll get the holiday pay (16 hours pay for an 8 hour shift) or get the day off. If there are 2.7 million civil service employed by the feds and they average $20/hour, then this is a big price tag at $54M.

Ranb
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Old 3rd December 2018, 04:55 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Who is making that statement?
It's not entirely clear who wrote the blog entry that was referred to. The site is hosted by Harlan Easley, a retired Army officer and the blog is called, Sic Semper Tyrannis. His name doesn't come up on a quickie Google search. Did Easley write the blog entry? It's not signed. Ironically, in the blog about Bush and Desert Storm that was linked to, my impression was, the blogger had an unfavorable opinion of Bush. Yet the final paragraph says:
Quote:
IMO Ross Perot did the US a great disservice in siphoning off enough votes to enable Clinton's electoral victory. We would have been much better off with another term for George Bush the Elder. re-linked
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Old 3rd December 2018, 04:57 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
https://www.khou.com/article/news/po.../285-619418112
CBS confirmed that President Donald Trump will designate December 5 as a National Day of Mourning for former President George H.W. Bush.

At work me and everyone else got an e-mail saying President Trump issued an EO declaring a day of mourning on December 5th.



I've yet to find out if I'll get the holiday pay (16 hours pay for an 8 hour shift) or get the day off. If there are 2.7 million civil service employed by the feds and they average $20/hour, then this is a big price tag at $54M.

Ranb
I am a Fed employee, and we get Wendesday off.

That is pretty much standard for when a ex President dies. Happened for Gerald Ford.

As much as I hate Trump, he is just following SOP for the death of a ex President here.
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Old 3rd December 2018, 05:05 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I remember how at the time people made fun of Perot because America would never elect an elderly boorish crackpot with no experience and no qualifications apart from having a lot of money.
Perot had a good message but he failed when he chose a senile (literally) VP. It showed he wasn't the great businessman who could translate that skill to the government. Hmmm, where have I heard that?

Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
The underlined, evidence please?
Reagan and H Bush did indeed blame people with HIV for their own tragedy and blocked a lot of research that should have been done at that time. It might have headed off some of the pandemic. If anyone is interested, And the Band Played On is a remarkable book that covers the era.
Quote:
And the Band Played On: Politics, People, and the AIDS Epidemic is a 1987 book by San Francisco Chronicle journalist Randy Shilts. The book chronicles the discovery and spread of the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) and acquired immune deficiency syndrome (AIDS) with a special emphasis on government indifference and political infighting—specifically in the United States—to what was then perceived as a specifically gay disease. Shilts' premise is that AIDS was allowed to happen: while the disease is caused by a biological agent, incompetence and apathy toward those initially affected allowed its spread to become much worse.

The book is an extensive work of investigative journalism, written in the form of an encompassing time line; the events that shaped the epidemic are presented as sequential matter-of-fact summaries. Shilts describes the impact and the politics involved in battling the disease on particular individuals in the gay, medical, and political communities.
When Bush followed Reagan, he continued the negative policies on HIV.
Democracy Now: Remembering George H.W. Bush’s Inaction on AIDS at Home While Detaining HIV+ Haitians at Guantánamo
Quote:
George H.W. Bush died on the eve of World AIDS Day, an irony not lost on many HIV/AIDS activists who remember the 41st president of the United States for his lack of action in the 1990s as the HIV/AIDS crisis raged on. Bush said little about the crisis during his years as vice president under Ronald Reagan, who didn’t even mention AIDS until the penultimate year of his presidency. Despite promises to do more after he was elected president, George H.W. Bush refused to address and fund programs around HIV/AIDS education and prevention, as well as drug treatment.
I don't know if H was a racist but Barbara's comment about people in the Astrodome doing well was definitely insensitive to poverty and I can't imagine her beliefs are far from his.

Snopes: Former first lady Barbara Bush said that Hurricane Katrina refugees being housed in the Houston Astrodome were "underprivileged anyway, so this is working very well for them."
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Old 3rd December 2018, 06:54 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
It's not entirely clear who wrote the blog entry that was referred to. The site is hosted by Harlan Easley, a retired Army officer and the blog is called, Sic Semper Tyrannis. His name doesn't come up on a quickie Google search. Did Easley write the blog entry? It's not signed. Ironically, in the blog about Bush and Desert Storm that was linked to, my impression was, the blogger had an unfavorable opinion of Bush. Yet the final paragraph says:
I'm pretty sure he is, or at least claims to be, this guy:

Patrick Lang

CV / bio attached.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Patrick_Lang

The quote appears to be an uncorroborated statement on his behalf.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf completecv-66.pdf (95.8 KB, 4 views)
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Old 3rd December 2018, 08:20 PM   #107
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Vice President Pence gave a very nice speech today which incorporated Bush the Elder’s service in WWII.
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Old 3rd December 2018, 08:30 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
I'm pretty sure he is, or at least claims to be, this guy: Patrick Lang
CV / bio attached.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Patrick_Lang
The quote appears to be an uncorroborated statement on his behalf.

Yes I think you're right, In fact, the quote I used before, I guess he initialed it, after all, but with small case letters so I wasn't certain what it meant.
Quote:
IMO Ross Perot did the US a great disservice in siphoning off enough votes to enable Clinton's electoral victory. We would have been much better off with another term for George Bush the Elder. pl
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Old 3rd December 2018, 08:52 PM   #109
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I met the president and Barbara twice during his retirement years and in a non-political setting. I found them to be pleasant, interesting and funny. If you didn’t know who they were, you wouldn’t know who they were, such was their absence of show and abundance of approachability. They were easy to like, which I did.

R.I.P.
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Old 3rd December 2018, 09:38 PM   #110
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I don't keep up with Presidential funerals. Is the closing of federal offices for a day "a thing"?
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Old 3rd December 2018, 10:44 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Yes, there's little doubt, without Perot running, George H. W. Bush would have been reelected in '92. Clinton defeated Bush by 6% points: Perot got 19% of the vote. The only variable is which states would have gone to Bush.
According to this, the idea that Perot cost Bush the election is a myth:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...ss-perot-myth/

The TL;DR version is, exit polling showed Perot voters were split nearly evenly as to who they would have voted for if Perot wasn't in the race with 38% saying they would have voted for Bush, 38% for Clinton and 24% saying they wouldn't have voted at all. Though it is also mentioned that Perot attacking Bush on the economy essentially won the debates for Clinton who didn't really need to perform well in those debates to win the election. Perot did the work for him. But ultimately, Clinton was leading in the polls from the beginning even before Perot entered the race.
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Old 4th December 2018, 01:15 AM   #112
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According to former Mossad agent Victor Ostrovsky there was a plot by that organisation to assassinate President G H W Bush in 1992 - https://ifamericaknew.org/us_ints/ob...sinations.html
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Old 4th December 2018, 06:48 AM   #113
Ranb
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Originally Posted by Mondial View Post
According to....
So? Where are you going with this?
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Old 4th December 2018, 07:19 AM   #114
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I sure did not care much for the polices of George H. W. Bush when he was the president.

However, I sure did have a great deal of respect for him personally since he did so much for the nation when he could have easily sat on the sidelines and made vast amounts of money due to his numerous family and business connections. But instead, he chose of life of public service.
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Old 4th December 2018, 07:24 AM   #115
carlvs
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
So? Where are you going with this?
Most likely the same anti-semitic garbage you would expect from those of this ilk, who can't understand why the majority of the world hates their beloved "hero's" guts ...
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Old 4th December 2018, 07:33 AM   #116
Eddie Dane
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Originally Posted by Mondial View Post
According to former Mossad agent Victor Ostrovsky there was a plot by that organisation to assassinate President G H W Bush in 1992 - https://ifamericaknew.org/us_ints/ob...sinations.html
I'm pretty sure Ostrovski was involved in a Jewish plot to sell more books.
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Old 4th December 2018, 10:36 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
I met the president and Barbara twice during his retirement years and in a non-political setting. I found them to be pleasant, interesting and funny. If you didn’t know who they were, you wouldn’t know who they were, such was their absence of show and abundance of approachability. They were easy to like, which I did.

R.I.P.
I had several opportunities to meet them both and agree completely. My wife and I were dating when he ran for re-election and I was a bit put out that she voted for Perot. Not that it mattered, he carried Texas.
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Old 4th December 2018, 12:27 PM   #118
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At first glance my reaction was, to report the Israeli intelligence agency Mossad even considered assassinating a sitting U.S. president seems ludicrous. Yet if you read the link (despite the fact it's apparently on a pro-Palestinian site and from almost seven years ago) there does seem to be some substance to it.

Quote:
[F]ormer 11-term Republican Congressman from Illinois, Paul Findley [wrote in] a 1992 article in the Washington Report for Middle East Affairs...that the U.S. Secret Service had received a warning that elements of Israel’s spy agency might target Bush when he went to Madrid for the opening day of the peace conference to be held that year. According to Findley, a former Mossad agent named Victor Ostrovsky who had written a book exposing Israel’s spy agency told a group of Canadian parliamentarians that he had received secret intelligence suggesting that the “the Mossad's hatred of Bush – and support for Vice President Dan Quayle – might lead to an attempt on the president's life.”
Here's where it gets interesting. Congressman Pete McCloskey apparently looked into it at the time and apparently considered it credible. I was no big fan of McCloskey's but I do have enough respect for him that I wonder...maybe there was something to this.
Quote:
Findley writes that Ostrovsky’s statements were relayed to Findley’s friend and former colleague Paul “Pete” McCloskey, a prominent former Republican Congressman from California who had recently been named by Bush to the National and Community Service Commission....Convinced that Ostrovsky was legitimate and his information significant, McCloskey jumped on the next flight to Washington, where he reported Ostrovsky’s intelligence to the Secret Service and State Department. Link
I still find it hard to believe the Israeli government would have ever authorized the assassination of a U.S. president. Yet at the same time, I can believe elements within Mossad, the proverbial "loose cannons," might have considered it. If nothing else, it's fodder for the history writers.
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Old 4th December 2018, 02:49 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
I don't keep up with Presidential funerals. Is the closing of federal offices for a day "a thing"?
Pretty much, yeah. It happened with Ford in 2006. It's SOP for the death of a ex President. Much as I despise Trump, he is just following precedent here.
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Old 4th December 2018, 02:52 PM   #120
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Friendly Warning:

Mondial is one of this site's most active Neo Nazis. just check his posting history.
Just like him to try to hijack this thread to spread his Anti Semitic crap.
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