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Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 26th January 2017, 05:49 AM   #161
Argumemnon
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Who are reasonable on the right? Names please.
You want names of individual citizens? Come on, now.

Fine, then. Just don't complain when they don't want to listen to you.

Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
You'd better phone up Theresa May. According to the BBC
Theresa May has been "unequivocal" in her position on the use of torture, Downing Street has told lobby journalists. The spokesman insisted that the UK does not condone torture or inhumane treatment in any circumstances.

He made the comments after US President Donald Trump suggested that the use of torture against terrorists is under consideration.
What in the blue hell does this have to do with the post you quoted?
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Old 26th January 2017, 05:50 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
David Frum, George Will and Tom Nichols. There's a concerning dearth in leadership positions though.
Yup. If only the reasonable right held any kind of leadership position, it would be so much easier to negotiate a compromise with the reasonable right.
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Old 26th January 2017, 05:51 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
You want names of individual citizens? Come on, now.

Fine, then. Just don't complain when they don't want to listen to you.


Politicians will do nicely. Preferrably politicians with any sort of influence in the GOP.
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Old 26th January 2017, 05:54 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Politicians will do nicely. Preferrably politicians with any sort of influence in the GOP.
Why the narrow requirements? I'm talking about people in general. You're moving the goalposts in order to avoid admitting that there are plenty of reasonable people on the other side, and plenty of unreasonable ones on your side as well.
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Old 26th January 2017, 05:54 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Politicians will do nicely. Preferrably politicians with any sort of influence in the GOP.
Larry Hogan.
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Old 26th January 2017, 05:56 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Why the narrow requirements? I'm talking about people in general. You're moving the goalposts in order to avoid admitting that there are plenty of reasonable people on the other side, and plenty of unreasonable ones on your side as well.
No, my goalposts are firmly where I originally left them. We're talking about compromising in politics. A compromise is negotiated by people with some kind of influence, and in politics, this means elected politicians.

But I'd be happy to concede that there are a few right-leaning moderates in the US, as long as you concede that none of them are in leadership positions in politics.
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Old 26th January 2017, 05:57 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
No, my goalposts are firmly where I originally left them. We're talking about compromising in politics.
Absolutely not. This part of the conversation started when Giz said this:

Originally Posted by Giz View Post
I don't think that's accurate. I think you are constantly told that belittling and insulting them is not the best way to win the next election.

Oh look, there you go again.
He was talking about voters, not politicians.
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Old 26th January 2017, 05:57 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Larry Hogan.
I'll take your word for it. Not familliar with him.
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Old 26th January 2017, 05:58 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Absolutely not. This part of the conversation started when Giz said this:



He was talking about voters, not politicians.
Then I misunderstood.

I'm not sure what there is to compromise about with voters though.
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Old 26th January 2017, 06:07 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
:What in the blue hell does this have to do with the post you quoted?
Quote:
When you put it like that, it sure gives an excuse to avoid compromise yourself, doesn't it?
There are points where even the Right won't compromise with Trump.
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Old 26th January 2017, 06:09 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Then I misunderstood.

I'm not sure what there is to compromise about with voters though.
The original point was that calling them all idiots, racists or deplorables or whatnot will not lead to useful conversation or understanding.

Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
There are points where even the Right won't compromise with Trump.
See above. We're talking about voters, not Trump or his cabinet of Sith lords and Skekses.
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Old 26th January 2017, 06:09 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Who are reasonable on the right? Names please.

Hillary Clinton?
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Old 26th January 2017, 06:12 AM   #173
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John McCain when he isn't paired with Palin?
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Old 26th January 2017, 06:13 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
The original point was that calling them all idiots, racists or deplorables or whatnot will not lead to useful conversation or understanding.
We're not calling all of them that. We're Calling the racists racists, the deplorables deplorable and the whatnots whatnot.
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Old 26th January 2017, 06:14 AM   #175
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Just watching his tour of the Whitehouse.
Why is his tie so huge? Who is his tailor? Primark?

He's still banging on about the crowd at the inauguration!
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Old 26th January 2017, 06:14 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
John McCain when he isn't paired with Palin?
He's quasi-reasonable. It's like he has good days and bad days.

Originally Posted by 3point14
Hillary Clinton?
US scale. On it, Hillary is left-leaning.
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Old 26th January 2017, 06:15 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
John McCain when he isn't paired with Palin?
He was overshadowed by Jeff Flake for being tops for his state this year.
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Old 26th January 2017, 06:16 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
We're not calling all of them that. We're Calling the racists racists, the deplorables deplorable and the whatnots whatnot.
Maybe not from you, but there's been plenty of blanket generalisations against the right, or the left, from several posters on this forum since the last elections began. Logger and Tony Stark come to mind.
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Old 26th January 2017, 06:18 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Maybe not from you, but there's been plenty of blanket generalisations against the right, or the left, from several posters on this forum since the last elections began. Logger and Tony Stark come to mind.
Maybe. I can't see half of those posts.

Expanding the scope from this forum, I'd say the generalisations aren't that inclusive.
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Old 26th January 2017, 06:44 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
John McCain when he isn't paired with Palin?
Mostly agree on that one, but was disappointed that he endorsed Trump.
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Old 26th January 2017, 06:53 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Mostly agree on that one, but was disappointed that he endorsed Trump.
Trump is obviously the greater veteran - he never got captured.
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Old 26th January 2017, 06:59 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Trump is obviously the greater veteran - he never got captured.
A total strategic genius.

But McCain shouldn't have necessarily refused to endorse Trump on the grounds of that pathetic statement, since that is a bit close to personal for him. Remember back when Cruz showed a bit of spine and refused to endorse? It didn't come off as principled at all. He didn't talk about the importance of this or that conservative value, but about how Trump insulted his family.

Which, of course, later turned out to be totally forgivable, but that's not my point.

McCain could have said that this man lacks the requisite knowledge and character to hold this office, that he is a danger to our nation, but he went with party loyalty, which disappointed me. (But so did his last run for president.)
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Old 26th January 2017, 07:11 AM   #183
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If you worry about the cost of that wall, we've got one on sale for cheap 'cause we have no longer any use for it. Worked pretty well for almost 30 years.

There's a sample at the UN HQ in NY, so Trump can just hop over and have a look.
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Old 26th January 2017, 07:22 AM   #184
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All 91 miles of it?
Please can you send them 10-12 walls. And no kissing will be allowed on them.
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Old 26th January 2017, 07:36 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by TofuFighter View Post
All 91 miles of it?
Please can you send them 10-12 walls. And no kissing will be allowed on them.
I suspect if you gathered up all the "genuine" bits of the Berlin wall you could find all over the world, you might have enough.
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Old 26th January 2017, 07:49 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by ZeeGerman View Post
If you worry about the cost of that wall, we've got one on sale for cheap 'cause we have no longer any use for it. Worked pretty well for almost 30 years.

Teh Donald has already a brick of it, gifted to him by that evil Kai Diekmann a good week ago.
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Old 26th January 2017, 07:57 AM   #187
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I heard an NPR report about that lawsuit that came up earlier.

Short summary: They are trying to claim standing based on a precedent from an obscure housing discrimination case that was argued on similar grounds. It will fail. They won't get standing.

Of course, that's in the long run. It doesn't mean they can't get a sympathetic judge at a district level who might buy into it, which would be enough to cause Mr. President much grief until it's overturned on appeal.
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Old 26th January 2017, 08:03 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Just as information, Konstantin Kakaes the person who wrote the article in the MIT Review, is not a member of MIT. he is a fellow at the The America Foundation, a non-partisan Washington-based think tank. He describes himself as a journalist. Link Most of his career has been in journalism. (One assignment I found fascinating was, he spent five years as the Mexico City correspondent for The Economist.)

My point being, this is an interesting article but it was not written by an engineer, or builder or a technical person, or someone on the staff at MIT. Kakaes does seem like an interesting guy, though.
Don't forget physics at Harvard. He strikes me as being very science literate for a journalist. That said, I don't know what sources he used to create that article. I would love to see a more rigorous treatment of the proposed project, I'm just not trusting the numbers Trump is putting out.
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Old 26th January 2017, 08:38 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I think you're misunderstanding me. There _is_ no compromise with the extremists, only with other moderates who disagree with you. Left-leaning moderates and right-leaning moderates can reach agreements. Ideologues cannot.
This compromise is a very interesting concept. Does it mean we agree to all just be a little bit racist, just violate a few human rights and only start every second war that is suggested?
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Old 26th January 2017, 08:42 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
He had an interesting interview with David Muir.

He's bragging about the claque he brought to the CIA. Also, Peyton Manning never addressed the CIA. He either thinks he got bigger standing ovation in a CIA briefing room than Manning did in a football stadium or Manning spoke to the CIA. Neither of those thoughts are sane. This man should be in an asylum not the White House.
What struck me most about that particular interview was when it was pointed out to Trump his ego seemed to be taking up too much of his time.
Quote:
DAVID MUIR: Mr. President, I just have one more question on this. And it's -- it's bigger picture. You took some heat after your visit to the CIA in front of that hallowed wall, 117 stars -- of those lost at the CIA. You talked about other things. But you also talked about crowd size at the inauguration, about the size of your rallies, about covers on Time magazine. And I just wanna ask you when does all of that matter just a little less? When do you let it roll off your back now that you're the president?
And he launched into how many people clapped and cheered and how long his standing ovation was, completely oblivious to the point of the question, and unresponsive to it.
Quote:
PRESIDENT TRUMP: OK, so I'm glad you asked....

That speech was a home run. That speech, if you look at Fox, OK, I'll mention you -- we see what Fox said. They said it was one of the great speeches. They showed the people applauding and screaming and -- and they were all CIA. [denies he brought his own people]...

I then spoke to the crowd. I got a standing ovation. In fact, they said it was the biggest standing ovation since Peyton Manning had won the Super Bowl and they said it was equal. I got a standing ovation. It lasted for a long period of time. What you do is take -- take out your tape -- you probably ran it live. I know when I do good speeches. I know when I do bad speeches. That speech was a total home run. They loved it. I could've ....
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Old 26th January 2017, 08:42 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
This compromise is a very interesting concept. Does it mean we agree to all just be a little bit racist, just violate a few human rights and only start every second war that is suggested?
Picking a middle point between two options isn't the only form of compromise.

But of course you know that. You just thought it was easier to write a snarky post than to actually discuss what I'm saying. It's a lot easier to write something that congratulates you and allows you to safely maintain your opinion than to challenge them.
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Old 26th January 2017, 08:43 AM   #192
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Reading a transcript of the Muir/ABC News interview...the man is a babbling, incoherent mess. Honestly, WTF?!
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Old 26th January 2017, 08:44 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
What struck me most about that particular interview was when it was pointed out to Trump his ego seemed to be taking up too much of his time.


And he launched into how many people clapped and cheered and how long his standing ovation was, completely oblivious to the point of the question, and unresponsive to it.
Cult of Personality.
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Old 26th January 2017, 08:47 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
What struck me most about that particular interview was when it was pointed out to Trump his ego seemed to be taking up too much of his time.
Quote:
DAVID MUIR: Mr. President, I just have one more question on this. And it's -- it's bigger picture. You took some heat after your visit to the CIA in front of that hallowed wall, 117 stars -- of those lost at the CIA. You talked about other things. But you also talked about crowd size at the inauguration, about the size of your rallies, about covers on Time magazine. And I just wanna ask you when does all of that matter just a little less? When do you let it roll off your back now that you're the president?
And he launched into how many people clapped and cheered and how long his standing ovation was, completely oblivious to the point of the question, and unresponsive to it.

Quote:
PRESIDENT TRUMP: OK, so I'm glad you asked....

That speech was a home run. That speech, if you look at Fox, OK, I'll mention you -- we see what Fox said. They said it was one of the great speeches. They showed the people applauding and screaming and -- and they were all CIA. [denies he brought his own people]...

I then spoke to the crowd. I got a standing ovation. In fact, they said it was the biggest standing ovation since Peyton Manning had won the Super Bowl and they said it was equal. I got a standing ovation. It lasted for a long period of time. What you do is take -- take out your tape -- you probably ran it live. I know when I do good speeches. I know when I do bad speeches. That speech was a total home run. They loved it. I could've ....
Beside everything that has already been said, Trump sounds like a very unhappy and unsatisfiable man.
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Old 26th January 2017, 08:51 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Reading a transcript of the Muir/ABC News interview...the man is a babbling, incoherent mess. Honestly, WTF?!
I don't think that he's a mess... I mean, when he speaks and... let me tell you, a lot of people agree with me that he's very eloquent and that when he -- I mean, millions of people agree with him, right? So when we say that he knows what he's talking about, there's no question about it, and... some people say he's the greatest public speaker since Cicero and, who am I to argue that? I'm not Cicero! Are you? Anyway, so I think it's not fair to -- let's remember how divided the country is, right? You can't just come up and say that the President... and he knows what he's talking about, I mean he has the pulse of the people so -- did you see how many people were at the inauguration? Millions, I'm told. Way more than Obama. Anyway, so he speaks to all these people and they cheer him... and the God makes the rain stop right there. That has to mean something, right? Why would the rain... and yeah, there's the issue of the wall, but you have to understand that, you know, this immigration business isn't-- it's not like he's arguing for concentration camps or anything, but when the American people wants jobs he has to find ways to give-- I mean, millions of illegal votes for Clinton. It's a good thing he's such a great speaker and managed to energise the country against this sort of thing. You say he's a mess, how do you explain... I mean the facts are right there. You can deny them of course but then you're just being unfair. So yeah, he has a good plan for America and making it great again.

...er...

...what were we discussing just now?
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Old 26th January 2017, 08:52 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
Beside everything that has already been said, Trump sound like a very unhappy and unsatisfiable man.
He has the best dissatisfaction in the whole world!
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Old 26th January 2017, 08:55 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
Beside everything that has already been said, Trump sound like a very unhappy and unsatisfiable man.
As McKay Coppins has noted, "Look at all of Trump's behavior through the prism of outer-borough class/status anxiety and it starts to make more sense."

Quote:
“He had enormous insecurity about his place in the world,” said Tim O’Brien, one of several Donald chroniclers over the years who have heard their subject describe some version of this scene. “I think he saw Manhattan … as the only place he could get those establishment blessings he really wanted. It’s almost an unfillable hole for him.”

Trump did eventually escape Queens at 25, renting a studio apartment on the Upper East Side, where he promptly set about sweet-talking his way into the city’s most exclusive clubs and restaurants. Trump’s goal was to expand the family business into the glitzy world of high-end Manhattan real estate while actively forging the “Donald Trump” persona — that of the high-flying, fast-talking, larger-than-life titan of industry.

To get this self-portrait painted in the press, he cultivated relationships with gossip columnists and fed tips to the tabloids about his glamorous-sounding love life. When Forbes announced it would begin publishing an annual list of the 400 richest Americans, Trump sweatily lobbied the magazine to ensure his inclusion — the beginning of a sacred Trump tradition that would continue for decades. (“We love Donald,” the Forbes 400 editors wrote in 1999. “He returns our calls. He usually pays for lunch. He even estimates his own net worth.”)
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Old 26th January 2017, 08:56 AM   #198
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Cult of Personality.
Actually, they are proffesional claqueurs: Trump took 20 people to the CIA: they were the ones giving a standing ovation.
He has done this at any of his rallies, and he is still doing it.

This is very well documented.
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Old 26th January 2017, 08:56 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I don't think that he's a mess... I mean, when he speaks and... let me tell you, a lot of people agree with me that he's very eloquent and that when he -- I mean, millions of people agree with him, right? So when we say that he knows what he's talking about, there's no question about it, and... some people say he's the greatest public speaker since Cicero and, who am I to argue that? I'm not Cicero! Are you? Anyway, so I think it's not fair to -- let's remember how divided the country is, right? You can't just come up and say that the President... and he knows what he's talking about, I mean he has the pulse of the people so -- did you see how many people were at the inauguration? Millions, I'm told. Way more than Obama. Anyway, so he speaks to all these people and they cheer him... and the God makes the rain stop right there. That has to mean something, right? Why would the rain... and yeah, there's the issue of the wall, but you have to understand that, you know, this immigration business isn't-- it's not like he's arguing for concentration camps or anything, but when the American people wants jobs he has to find ways to give-- I mean, millions of illegal votes for Clinton. It's a good thing he's such a great speaker and managed to energise the country against this sort of thing. You say he's a mess, how do you explain... I mean the facts are right there. You can deny them of course but then you're just being unfair. So yeah, he has a good plan for America and making it great again.

...er...

...what were we discussing just now?
I award you a CIA-approved standing ovation.
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Old 26th January 2017, 09:01 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
He has the best dissatisfaction in the whole world!


Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Indeed makes sense. Infinitely sad.

If he wasn't going to make life more difficult for many people with his asinine policies, I would almost pity him.
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