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Old 10th February 2017, 09:13 AM   #241
The_Animus
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"by a 51/23 margin Trump voters say that the Bowling Green Massacre shows why Trump's immigration policy is needed."

Polling by PPP but the link I saw disappeared and I don't have any time left ATM so maybe someone can link it.
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Old 10th February 2017, 09:16 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
"by a 51/23 margin Trump voters say that the Bowling Green Massacre shows why Trump's immigration policy is needed."

Polling by PPP but the link I saw disappeared and I don't have any time left ATM so maybe someone can link it.
Link.

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.market...B-46BCFEE06D29
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Old 10th February 2017, 09:42 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
"by a 51/23 margin Trump voters say that the Bowling Green Massacre shows why Trump's immigration policy is needed."

Polling by PPP but the link I saw disappeared and I don't have any time left ATM so maybe someone can link it.

See the alternate facts win again.
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Old 10th February 2017, 10:48 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Look, leftist here put these polls up to offer their proof on how dumb Trump supporters are. Then someone puts a poll up to show how dumb the Dems are. The fact is, your side has the poor, they are by nature going to be dumber then the average middle to upper middle class person, we have most of them.

So what is the point of putting this stuff up?
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Old 10th February 2017, 10:53 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Look, leftist here put these polls up to offer their proof on how dumb Trump supporters are. Then someone puts a poll up to show how dumb the Dems are. The fact is, your side has the poor, they are by nature going to be dumber then the average middle to upper middle class person, we have most of them.

So what is the point of putting this stuff up?
Can you point to that poll of which you speak?
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Old 10th February 2017, 11:05 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Look, leftist here put these polls up to offer their proof on how dumb Trump supporters are. Then someone puts a poll up to show how dumb the Dems are. The fact is, your side has the poor, they are by nature going to be dumber then the average middle to upper middle class person, we have most of them.

So what is the point of putting this stuff up?
I suppose you're part of the group of people who agree that there was no such massacre?
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Old 10th February 2017, 11:56 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Can you point to that poll of which you speak?
Yes

http://www.redstate.com/jaycaruso/20...ts-are-stupid/
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Old 10th February 2017, 11:59 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
People are stupid. News at 11.
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Old 10th February 2017, 11:59 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I suppose you're part of the group of people who agree that there was no such massacre?
A true moderate would say, the polling firm PPP is solidly left. Yes, nothing to do with what you asked, guess why?
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Old 10th February 2017, 12:00 PM   #250
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Wow, a poll by a right wing website saying liberals are stupid. There is convincing evidence..

Does this guy have ANY idea of how to make an argument?
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Old 10th February 2017, 12:01 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
People are stupid. News at 11.
Tell that to your side, who tries to continue this narrative of their brilliance, when their politics mostly centers around EMOTION!
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Old 10th February 2017, 12:02 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Wow, a poll by a right wing website saying liberals are stupid. There is convincing evidence..

Does this guy have ANY idea of how to make an argument?
What do you think PPP is, and they've done this before.
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Old 10th February 2017, 12:03 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Look, leftist here put these polls up to offer their proof on how dumb Trump supporters are. Then someone puts a poll up to show how dumb the Dems are. The fact is, your side has the poor, they are by nature going to be dumber then the average middle to upper middle class person, we have most of them.

So what is the point of putting this stuff up?
There's a difference between dumb and willful ignorance.
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Old 10th February 2017, 12:10 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
A true moderate would say, the polling firm PPP is solidly left. Yes, nothing to do with what you asked, guess why?
If I had to guess, I'd venture that you'd rather not tell us what you think on the matter, lest you end up looking the fool.

Quote:
Tell that to your side, who tries to continue this narrative of their brilliance, when their politics mostly centers around EMOTION!
They're not "my side". That is a fantasy of your own making.
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Old 10th February 2017, 12:20 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Look, leftist here put these polls up to offer their proof on how dumb Trump supporters are. Then someone puts a poll up to show how dumb the Dems are. The fact is, your side has the poor, they are by nature going to be dumber then the average middle to upper middle class person, we have most of them.

So what is the point of putting this stuff up?
I don't think your poverty stats hold up. Most poor people do not live in cities but in the Republican environment of suburbs and rural areas.

Also, income not as predictive.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...ote-for-trump/
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Old 10th February 2017, 12:34 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
If I had to guess, I'd venture that you'd rather not tell us what you think on the matter, lest you end up looking the fool.



They're not "my side". That is a fantasy of your own making.
Logger just accused somebody of using nothing but emotion????????

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Old 10th February 2017, 12:39 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Thanks for posting the link!

Originally Posted by logger View Post
Tell that to your side, who tries to continue this narrative of their brilliance, when their politics mostly centers around EMOTION!
People in general often base their beliefs on emotion rather than reason and facts. Often there is a mix of both. As such it's bound to occur with both democrats and republicans.

For instance, many democrats might feel compassion for refugees and so want to accept them from wherever. They likely don't know every country or city name and just assumed it was a real place.

Or, many republicans might feel anger and fear for refugees and so don't want them coming here. They likely don't know every terrorist attack, or the odds of one affecting them, so they just assume it's a real attack and a real threat.

Of course the difference being that one was made up in a polling question and the other was said by a Trump surrogate on TV. Oh and one is being used as justification for stupid policy that negatively impacts people both in the US and across the globe.
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Old 10th February 2017, 12:46 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
No. Poorly worded survey designed to get results it wants. Where is the option for them to say Agrabah is not a real country?
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Old 10th February 2017, 01:11 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
If I had to guess, I'd venture that you'd rather not tell us what you think on the matter, lest you end up looking the fool.



They're not "my side". That is a fantasy of your own making.
You're talking to a person who erroneously claims that 'the left' is all about emotion, while he himself preaches the right from a position of emotional mockery and outright hatred.

As well, recall that 'the left' is anyone who doesn't think or believe exactly as he does in his bubble.
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Old 10th February 2017, 01:19 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
You're talking to a person who erroneously claims that 'the left' is all about emotion, while he himself preaches the right from a position of emotional mockery and outright hatred.

As well, recall that 'the left' is anyone who doesn't think or believe exactly as he does in his bubble.
And we have president snowflake himself as an example of how well the right deals with criticism.
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Old 10th February 2017, 01:23 PM   #261
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I think that the courts will probably end up upholding parts of the Trump order while modifying others...the Green Card fiasco in particular.
Anyway, what has happened is certainly a huge shot across Trump's bow.
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Old 10th February 2017, 02:02 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I think that the courts will probably end up upholding parts of the Trump order while modifying others...the Green Card fiasco in particular.
Anyway, what has happened is certainly a huge shot across Trump's bow.
The whole thing is mind boggling.

If the EO has merely stated that no new refugees were going to be permitted in for 60-90 days as better vetting was put in place, and that existing visas and green cards would not be affected, this whole thing would barely warrant a a page 3 headline.
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Old 10th February 2017, 02:13 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
The whole thing is mind boggling.

If the EO has merely stated that no new refugees were going to be permitted in for 60-90 days as better vetting was put in place, and that existing visas and green cards would not be affected, this whole thing would barely warrant a a page 3 headline.
It's not that mind-boggling. The Trump administration, in its few weeks of existence, has shown very little regard for details.
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Old 10th February 2017, 02:15 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
It's not that mind-boggling. The Trump administration, in its few weeks of existence, has shown very little regard for details.
Or spelling...
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Old 10th February 2017, 02:19 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
It's not that mind-boggling. The Trump administration, in its few weeks of existence, has shown very little regard for details.
I know! It's like they're staffed by morons! *I* could write a better EO than Trump to do what they wanted, and I'm not even a fracking American!
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Old 10th February 2017, 02:21 PM   #266
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Trump is emphasizing he has secret knowledge as POTUS. No doubt that has a double benefit: Convince your followers they don't know as much as Trump so anything King Trump does can't be challenged, and that's the same legal argument used when asserting national security allows the POTUS to act without being challenged.
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Old 10th February 2017, 02:21 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
The whole thing is mind boggling.

If the EO has merely stated that no new refugees were going to be permitted in for 60-90 days as better vetting was put in place, and that existing visas and green cards would not be affected, this whole thing would barely warrant a a page 3 headline.
And that wouldn't have given them what they wanted. They ran on a muslim ban and they needed to be seen to ban muslims.
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Old 10th February 2017, 02:23 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And that wouldn't have given them what they wanted. They ran on a muslim ban and they needed to be seen to ban muslims.
While at the same time claiming it's not a Muslim ban! Is the administration running on fear and hate?
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Old 10th February 2017, 02:42 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Trump is emphasizing he has secret knowledge as POTUS.
The most implausible lie Trump could possibly tell is claiming to know something, anything, related to doing the job of a president.
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Old 10th February 2017, 02:48 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
The whole thing is mind boggling.

If the EO has merely stated that no new refugees were going to be permitted in for 60-90 days as better vetting was put in place, and that existing visas and green cards would not be affected, this whole thing would barely warrant a a page 3 headline.
I think the three things that shifted this EO from 'bold' to 'gong show' were:
  • the inclusion of existing visas and green cards - this lays lie to the claim that "We're only interested in illegal immigrants" story
  • Trump reassuring everybody that Christians would receive special treatment
  • Bloomberg reporting that Trump wanted to find a loophole to create a de facto unconstitutional Muslim Ban but with some sort of pretense that made it arguably legal - this lays lie to the claim that "We're only interested in protecting Americans from terrorists" story


ETA:
Oh, four actually. I would add:
  • The lack of advance warning. This resulted in genuine human tragedy stories with people handcuffed in airports, when they obviously had done nothing wrong. The Administration's stunning indifference to the treatment of innocent people who had planned a trip to the USA in good faith is a news story in and of itself.
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Old 10th February 2017, 04:30 PM   #271
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Trump wants to wait longer before appealing to the Supreme Court. Are we just going to sit on this until his man gets confirmed - and then vote on it? I mean, what's the point in waiting?
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Old 10th February 2017, 04:39 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
The whole thing is mind boggling.

If the EO has merely stated that no new refugees were going to be permitted in for 60-90 days as better vetting was put in place, and that existing visas and green cards would not be affected, this whole thing would barely warrant a a page 3 headline.
Right, but in the meantime, all those terrorists who have been vetted before would flood in.

Or, of course, no.
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Old 10th February 2017, 05:34 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Logger just accused somebody of using nothing but emotion????????
Not "somebody" your side in general. Your sides political ideology isn't based in fact, it is based on emotion.
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Old 10th February 2017, 05:36 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
No. Poorly worded survey designed to get results it wants. Where is the option for them to say Agrabah is not a real country?
Point is, this happens on both sides.
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Old 10th February 2017, 05:38 PM   #275
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
You're talking to a person who erroneously claims that 'the left' is all about emotion, while he himself preaches the right from a position of emotional mockery and outright hatred.

As well, recall that 'the left' is anyone who doesn't think or believe exactly as he does in his bubble.
I think you're clearly the one who preaches from the side of hate. You're also the one who continues to call me a fascist, lots of hate there it seems.
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Old 10th February 2017, 05:40 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And we have president snowflake himself as an example of how well the right deals with criticism.
No, the term snowflake was coined to explain the loser lib college "children" who needed their safe space. Trump is just giving it back to the losers who go after him.
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Old 10th February 2017, 05:41 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
No. Poorly worded survey designed to get results it wants. Where is the option for them to say Agrabah is not a real country?
Wouldn't matter to me. If I'm pro-whale, I'm going to react badly to Cpt. Ahab chasing Moby Dick.
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Old 10th February 2017, 05:43 PM   #278
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I think that the courts will probably end up upholding parts of the Trump order while modifying others...the Green Card fiasco in particular.
Anyway, what has happened is certainly a huge shot across Trump's bow.
A shot across his bow?
The courts have decided to take on national security, deciding who should be allowed in or out, something the president has sole discretion on.

This is just liberals legislating from the bench. Another reason why they cannot be compromised with, they have to be defeated.
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Old 10th February 2017, 06:28 PM   #279
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I wonder if these judges are thinking about what they've just done?

https://theconservativetreehouse.com
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Old 10th February 2017, 06:41 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
I think the three things that shifted this EO from 'bold' to 'gong show' were:
  • the inclusion of existing visas and green cards - this lays lie to the claim that "We're only interested in illegal immigrants" story
  • Trump reassuring everybody that Christians would receive special treatment
  • Bloomberg reporting that Trump wanted to find a loophole to create a de facto unconstitutional Muslim Ban but with some sort of pretense that made it arguably legal - this lays lie to the claim that "We're only interested in protecting Americans from terrorists" story


ETA:
Oh, four actually. I would add:
  • The lack of advance warning. This resulted in genuine human tragedy stories with people handcuffed in airports, when they obviously had done nothing wrong. The Administration's stunning indifference to the treatment of innocent people who had planned a trip to the USA in good faith is a news story in and of itself.

I agree with this, but I would add one thing. It would be appropriate to give Christians special treatment. The Chaldean and Assyrian communities are being destroyed. "Christian" in this case is not just a religious choice, it's an ethnicity. The Mandaeans have more or less ceased to exist. The Yazidis have fled.

It's ok to give preferential treatment to persecuted minorities. They really are persecuted.
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