ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Australia issues , Australia politics

Reply
Old 16th April 2015, 01:48 AM   #81
NWO Sentryman
Proud NWO Gatekeeper
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,994
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Nup, never happened.
Please explain about how Australia had an astronomical crime rate compared to the rest of the developed world thanks to years of subjugating and segregating a large ethnic minority that was imported for the sole purpose of slave labour.
__________________
If I now say "dominoes", you won't think "pizza". Will you? - FireGarden on the Middle East
NWO Sentryman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th April 2015, 03:16 AM   #82
nvidiot
Botanical Jedi
 
nvidiot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,121
Yeah Australia missed that boat. We just wiped out a substantial proportion of the natives instead of importing slave labour en mass. Another topic methinks.

The definition of "lawful" regarding reasons to own a firearm or even multiple firearms is merely different here in Australia. Aside from the semi automatic class of weapons, and depending on the state laws, your collection ranb might actually be achievable in substantial measure. I don't know exactly what kind of firearms you collect of course, but some states collections is considered a lawful reason for owning a firearm.

Handguns not so much. They're fairly heavily restricted in Aus. Even long before port Arthur a close family friend had a 357 revolver of some description, and it was very carefully guarded as an illegally possessed weapon and never discussed outside that close group. Illegal weapons exist, but aren't often used in criminal activity, certainly not to the extend they seem to be in the US.

Self defence itself is not considered a legitimate use except in stringent circumstances such as police, bodyguards, armoured trucks etc. I saw a police detective recently and whilst he was essentially in plain clothes, the SA pistol at his hip was glaringly obvious and stark to my eyes as we just don't come across them in everyday life or expect to see them often up close.

It's culture. The overall opinion on firearm ownership here appears to be quite different to you guys.
__________________
www.sq1gaming.com
nvidiot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th April 2015, 06:25 AM   #83
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 9,949
I collect and use bolt action, single shot, semi-auto, muzzle loading and pump action. The only action I lack is machine gun. My calibers are from 17 to 50 caliber; 73 caliber if you include a rifled 12 gauge. I also make short barreled rifles (SBR) and silencers. The most recent short barreled shotgun bill failed in the legislature; SBR and silencers were recently made civilian legal again. SBR's were banned in 1994 just because they could according to the bill author.

I shoot mostly air rifle and 22lr target now.

Ranb
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th April 2015, 09:03 AM   #84
welshdean
Rugby World Cup
        2019
   CHAMPIONS
 
welshdean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,327
welshdean has a birthday
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
<snipped>

Same here. My 50 plus gun collection does not make me feel safer.

<snipped>

Ranb
Maybe you should try Zyprexa.
__________________
"In science it often happens that scientists say, "You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken," and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion."
Carl Sagan 1934 - 1996 RIP
welshdean is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th April 2015, 09:10 AM   #85
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,600
Originally Posted by nvidiot View Post
Yeah Australia missed that boat. We just wiped out a substantial proportion of the natives instead of importing slave labour en mass. Another topic methinks.

The definition of "lawful" regarding reasons to own a firearm or even multiple firearms is merely different here in Australia. Aside from the semi automatic class of weapons, and depending on the state laws, your collection ranb might actually be achievable in substantial measure. I don't know exactly what kind of firearms you collect of course, but some states collections is considered a lawful reason for owning a firearm.

Handguns not so much. They're fairly heavily restricted in Aus. Even long before port Arthur a close family friend had a 357 revolver of some description, and it was very carefully guarded as an illegally possessed weapon and never discussed outside that close group. Illegal weapons exist, but aren't often used in criminal activity, certainly not to the extend they seem to be in the US.

Self defence itself is not considered a legitimate use except in stringent circumstances such as police, bodyguards, armoured trucks etc. I saw a police detective recently and whilst he was essentially in plain clothes, the SA pistol at his hip was glaringly obvious and stark to my eyes as we just don't come across them in everyday life or expect to see them often up close.

It's culture. The overall opinion on firearm ownership here appears to be quite different to you guys.
So celebrities, politicians and money rate armed protection, but Joe citizen, not so much.
BStrong is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th April 2015, 09:22 AM   #86
welshdean
Rugby World Cup
        2019
   CHAMPIONS
 
welshdean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,327
welshdean has a birthday
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Thanks for the link. Appears that the word lawful is very restricted. In the USA if I have to take time off from my shooting activities due to injury, illness or work, I can simply resume my hobby when able. I don't have to convince the police that I'm worthy of keeping the license.



Ranb

ETA; I thought they spelled license wrong. I guess not. http://www.differencebetween.net/lan...e-and-license/
There's your problem.
__________________
"In science it often happens that scientists say, "You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken," and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion."
Carl Sagan 1934 - 1996 RIP
welshdean is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th April 2015, 10:19 AM   #87
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 9,949
Originally Posted by welshdean View Post
Maybe you should try Zyprexa.
You're not really suggesting I need drugs to convince myself that my gun collection should make me feel safer? I call your argument/suggestion stupid.

Originally Posted by welshdean View Post
There's your problem.
I'd rather live in a country where the authorities need to prove a person is not worthy prior to depriving them of their rights. I'm not the one with the problem.

Ranb

Last edited by Ranb; 16th April 2015 at 10:21 AM.
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th April 2015, 10:25 AM   #88
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 18,748
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
You're not really suggesting I need drugs to convince myself that my gun collection should make me feel safer? I call your argument/suggestion stupid.


I'd rather live in a country where the authorities need to prove a person is not worthy prior to depriving them of their rights. I'm not the one with the problem.

Ranb
Again, this is an Amero-centric view founded on the second amenment's provision of a 'right' to bear arms.

In countries witout a second amenment type piece of legislation, no-one believes they have a right to own a firearm. In exactly the same way as for a US driving license, the privilidge (note, not right as no second amendment) has to be earned.

Can you not see how things are different for people who are not where you are? The only reason you believe access to firearms is a right is because you've grown up with that. Those who live elsewhere haven't and so have a different cultural perspective. Your continuing efforts to paint your cultural perspective as the only valid one are puzzling.

Can I ask, in your opinion, which countries, if any, other than the USA, have the correct postion on ownership of firearms?
__________________
Up the River!

Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted]

Last edited by 3point14; 16th April 2015 at 10:27 AM.
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th April 2015, 10:35 AM   #89
MG1962
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,252
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
You're not really suggesting I need drugs to convince myself that my gun collection should make me feel safer? I call your argument/suggestion stupid.


I'd rather live in a country where the authorities need to prove a person is not worthy prior to depriving them of their rights. I'm not the one with the problem.

Ranb
But each society and culture has the right to decide what rights it wants to have as cornerstones of that society or culture. In the US the second amendment and gun ownership are seen as one such cornerstone.

In Australia we never did, hence why we have no laws that enshrine gun ownership as any type of special right. That does not mean that Australia is wrong and the US is right, or visa versa. Just simply our respective societies have different aims and goals for themselves.

Australia like any other true democracy has the ability to change laws. If over time Australian's saw gun ownership in a similar fashion to the US, we would simply vote the people in who would affect that change.
MG1962 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th April 2015, 10:35 AM   #90
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 9,949
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Again, this is an Amero-centric view founded on the second amenment's provision of a 'right' to bear arms.
Call it what you want, it is usually nicer to require the state prove you can't so something than ask for permission. I was referring to any rights.

Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
In countries witout a second amenment type piece of legislation, no-one believes they have a right to own a firearm. In exactly the same way as for a US driving license, the privilidge (note, not right as no second amendment) has to be earned.
Good for them then. I've no problem with gun laws in other countries, not sure why other people in foreign lands have problems with the laws in the USA while surfing the internet from home.

Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Can you not see how things are different for people who are not where you are?
I can see this.

Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
The only reason you believe access to firearms is a right is because you've grown up with that.
Right again.

Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Those who live elsewhere haven't and so have a different cultural perspective. Your continuing efforts to paint your cultural perspective as the only valid one are puzzling.
Where did I say mine was the only valid one?

Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Can I ask, in your opinion, which countries, if any, other than the USA, have the correct postion on ownership of firearms?
I don't know enough about the laws in other countries to state if they have the correct position. Don't really care either.

Ranb

Last edited by Ranb; 16th April 2015 at 10:44 AM.
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th April 2015, 10:39 AM   #91
MG1962
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,252
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post

Good for them then. I've no problem with gun laws in other countries, not sure why other people in foreign lands have problems with the laws in the USA while surfing the internet from home.
Because all of us, no matter our origins are a product of the society and culture we grew up in. And often those origins put us in a place where what might seem common sense to one, is outlandish to another.

It is sort of what makes the world so interesting
MG1962 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th April 2015, 10:39 AM   #92
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 9,949
Originally Posted by MG1962 View Post
In Australia we never did, hence why we have no laws that enshrine gun ownership as any type of special right. That does not mean that Australia is wrong and the US is right, or visa versa. Just simply our respective societies have different aims and goals for themselves.
Everything in your post is something I agree with. I don't recall ever saying a country was wrong to control guns in any certain way. I do believe I've stated that their way (in some cases) sucks and I wouldn't want to be a part of it, but that is not the same as saying it is wrong.

In other words it sucks for example that I have to obtain a driver's license or a building permit, but that is the way things are and I have to live with it until a better way is found.

Originally Posted by MG1962 View Post
It is sort of what makes the world so interesting
The world is a very interesting place and I've enjoyed traveling it these last few decades. I love the differences and I don't mind that other countries are "controlling" their populations in a different manner. 99% of my bitching about gun laws is about the stupid ones in the USA, not elsewhere.

Ranb

Last edited by Ranb; 16th April 2015 at 10:43 AM.
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th April 2015, 10:46 AM   #93
MG1962
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,252
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Everything in your post is something I agree with. I don't recall ever saying a country was wrong to control guns in any certain way. I do believe I've stated that their way (in some cases) sucks and I wouldn't want to be a part of it, but that is not the same as saying it is wrong.

In other words it sucks for example that I have to obtain a driver's license or a building permit, but that is the way things are and I have to live with it until a better way is found.

Ranb
I was using your post to highlight the sub discussion about non Americans commenting on US gun laws and visa versa. In my time living in the US I have seen a number of newspaper articles absolutely flaying Australia's gun laws, and painting Australians as some sort of spineless society happy to allow the government to tread all over us.

The Australian constitution does protect our rights, and does it in a very robust way. The thing is it uses a very different approach than those promises contained in the US constitution, and this can often lead to miss understandings
MG1962 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th April 2015, 10:54 AM   #94
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 9,949
Originally Posted by MG1962 View Post
I was using your post to highlight the sub discussion about non Americans commenting on US gun laws and visa versa. In my time living in the US I have seen a number of newspaper articles absolutely flaying Australia's gun laws, and painting Australians as some sort of spineless society happy to allow the government to tread all over us.
In that case you are correct. It doesn't really help anyone. America is diverse/different enough that we need our own solutions instead of someone else's. I really don't like hearing people bring up the "we should do it because they do it in that country" argument; no matter what side of the gun debate they are on.

A while back at a committee hearing on gun bills a person suggested an AWB was right because some statistics (I don't remember what) in Switzerland supported her argument. That one got a snicker from me which spread across the room.

Ranb
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th April 2015, 11:09 AM   #95
welshdean
Rugby World Cup
        2019
   CHAMPIONS
 
welshdean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,327
welshdean has a birthday
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
You're not really suggesting I need drugs to convince myself that my gun collection should make me feel safer? I call your argument/suggestion stupid.
Not at all, I'm saying that if possessing an arsenal of 50 (50 fer chrissakes) guns doesn't make you feel safe, then <SNIP>.
Edited by jsfisher:  Rule 12 violation removed.


Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I'd rather live in a country where the authorities need to prove a person is not worthy prior to depriving them of their rights. I'm not the one with the problem.

Ranb
Again, there's your problem. I have no right to a firearm, nor does the friendly neighbourhood drug baron. So I know the chances of being shot are zero to negligible and he knows that the chances of him getting shot are virtually the same. We all feel safe!
At this point you usually spew out the tired old canard that the UK harbours vicious violent thugs on every street corner, or that a trip to choir practice at the village hall will net me a broken nose or such. Even if that were the case, I don't believe a punch on the nose warrants half a dozen 'hollow points' to the chest.

If you ain't got one, you can't use one.

BTW, your favourite comeback that "guns don't kill people..." is complete bollocks. If I threw a round at your face, you'll come away with a bruise/minor cut(s), tops. If I added a gun into the mix, I'd expect a rather different and unpleasant outcome.
__________________
"In science it often happens that scientists say, "You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken," and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion."
Carl Sagan 1934 - 1996 RIP

Last edited by jsfisher; 16th April 2015 at 04:30 PM. Reason: spelling
welshdean is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th April 2015, 11:20 AM   #96
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 9,949
Originally Posted by welshdean View Post
Not at all, I'm saying that if possessing an arsenal of 50 (50 fer chrissakes) guns doesn't make you feel safe, then <SNIP>.
Edited by jsfisher:  Moderated content removed.

When did I ever say I had a gun collection to make me feel safe? This is a skeptics forum. Even though it is fashionable on this forum to make any claim about guns and expect people to be stupid enough to believe it, wouldn't it help your argument to at least show a bit of evidence to support your argument?

I don't need a gun to feel safe. The last time a gun was pointed at me I ran towards the problem; and I was unarmed.

Originally Posted by welshdean View Post
Again, there's your problem. I have no right to a firearm, nor does the friendly neighbourhood drug baron. So I know the chances of being shot are zero to negligible and he knows that the chances of him getting shot are virtually the same. We all feel safe!
So a ban actually works where you live? No one has illegal guns? Based on my nearly 52 years of life, I'd have to say that my chances of being shot are zero to negligible also.

Originally Posted by welshdean View Post
At this point you usually spew out ....
You said "you" as in Ranb; any evidence to support that accusation?

Originally Posted by welshdean View Post
BTW, your favourite comeback that "guns don't kill people..." is complete bollocks. If I threw a round at your face, you'll come away with a bruise/mior cut(s), tops. If I added a gun into the mix, I'd expect a rather different and unpleasant outcome.
Again, have any evidence this is my favorite position or that I ever used it?

Ranb

Last edited by jsfisher; 16th April 2015 at 04:32 PM.
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th April 2015, 06:37 PM   #97
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 64,690
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Good for them then. I've no problem with gun laws in other countries, not sure why other people in foreign lands have problems with the laws in the USA while surfing the internet from home.
Because America exports its culture en masse to the entire English-speaking world! And most of the rest of it as well.
__________________
Self-described nerd. Pronouns: He/Him

My mom told me she tries never to make fun of people for not knowing something.
- Randall Munroe
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th April 2015, 07:13 PM   #98
Giz
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,579
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Because America exports its culture en masse to the entire English-speaking world! And most of the rest of it as well.
You could move to North Korea? I understand they allow neither American culture or civilian guy ownership.
Giz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th April 2015, 08:17 PM   #99
Noztradamus
Illuminator
 
Noztradamus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,680
Originally Posted by Giz View Post
You could move to North Korea? I understand they allow neither American culture or civilian guy ownership.
But.. at the top of the page NWO said the problem with America's culture was the history of civilian guy ownership.
__________________
The Australian Family Association's John Morrissey was aghast when he learned Jessica Watson was bidding to become the youngest person to sail round the world alone, unaided and without stopping.
Noztradamus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th April 2015, 09:21 PM   #100
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 9,949
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Because America exports its culture en masse to the entire English-speaking world! And most of the rest of it as well.
That would be because the rest of the world is so willing to import it?

Ranb
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th April 2015, 10:16 PM   #101
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 64,690
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
That would be because the rest of the world is so willing to import it?
And that isn't a problem because...?
__________________
Self-described nerd. Pronouns: He/Him

My mom told me she tries never to make fun of people for not knowing something.
- Randall Munroe
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th April 2015, 11:07 PM   #102
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 44,741
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Call it what you want, it is usually nicer to require the state prove you can't so something than ask for permission. I was referring to any rights.


Good for them then. I've no problem with gun laws in other countries, not sure why other people in foreign lands have problems with the laws in the USA while surfing the internet from home.


I can see this.


Right again.


Where did I say mine was the only valid one?


I don't know enough about the laws in other countries to state if they have the correct position. Don't really care either.

Ranb
One of the reasons is that people from other countries are killed due to stupid US gun laws. Chris Lane is a recent victim.

http://www.news.com.au/world/north-a...-1227304182710

Probably doesn't count in your eyes though because he was killed by a black kid and not a "responsible" gun owner.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th April 2015, 11:19 PM   #103
Noztradamus
Illuminator
 
Noztradamus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,680
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
One of the reasons is that people from other countries are killed due to stupid US gun laws. Chris Lane is a recent victim.

http://www.news.com.au/world/north-a...-1227304182710

Probably doesn't count in your eyes though because he was killed by a black kid and not a "responsible" gun owner.
Guns don't kill people, people (and black kids) kill people.
__________________
The Australian Family Association's John Morrissey was aghast when he learned Jessica Watson was bidding to become the youngest person to sail round the world alone, unaided and without stopping.
Noztradamus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th April 2015, 11:47 PM   #104
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 64,690
Guns don't kill people. People use guns to kill people.
__________________
Self-described nerd. Pronouns: He/Him

My mom told me she tries never to make fun of people for not knowing something.
- Randall Munroe
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th April 2015, 11:49 PM   #105
epepke
Philosopher
 
epepke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 9,264
Wouldn't it be funny if, in 20 or so years, Australia had a problem with gun violence due to criminals engaged in the illegal gun trade.

No, not "funny." What's that other word...
__________________
"It probably came from a sticky dark planet far, far away."
- Godzilla versus Hedora

"There's no evidence that the 9-11 attacks (whoever did them) were deliberately attacking civilians. On the contrary the targets appear to have been chosen as military."
-DavidByron
epepke is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2015, 12:04 AM   #106
fromdownunder
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,494
Originally Posted by epepke View Post
Wouldn't it be funny if, in 20 or so years, Australia had a problem with gun violence due to criminals engaged in the illegal gun trade.

No, not "funny." What's that other word...
The other word is if Criminal Gangs want to off each other with whatever weapons they have on hand I do not have a problem. If they get hold of illegal guns and kill each other more efficiently, well I say go for it. The Darwin Awards need new blood.

As near as I can tell, most professional criminals tend not to shoot innocent civilians. It does tend to draw unwanted attention to their activities by the authorities and they do try to keep these sorts of things private. With Ice these days, they do, of course, tend to blow up houses, but that is a different issue for another thread.

Norm
__________________
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in Vain


fromdownunder is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2015, 01:18 AM   #107
mikado
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,932
Originally Posted by welshdean View Post
Not at all, I'm saying that if possessing an arsenal of 50 (50 fer chrissakes) guns doesn't make you feel safe, then <SNIP>.
Edited by jsfisher:  Rule 12 violation removed.




Again, there's your problem. I have no right to a firearm, nor does the friendly neighbourhood drug baron. So I know the chances of being shot are zero to negligible and he knows that the chances of him getting shot are virtually the same. We all feel safe!
At this point you usually spew out the tired old canard that the UK harbours vicious violent thugs on every street corner, or that a trip to choir practice at the village hall will net me a broken nose or such. Even if that were the case, I don't believe a punch on the nose warrants half a dozen 'hollow points' to the chest.

If you ain't got one, you can't use one.

BTW, your favourite comeback that "guns don't kill people..." is complete bollocks. If I threw a round at your face, you'll come away with a bruise/minor cut(s), tops. If I added a gun into the mix, I'd expect a rather different and unpleasant outcome.

well said.
I think the average Australian finds the American attitude towards guns mind boggling....
in my travels I once met a lovely American guy, who very well meaning, asked, as a sensible woman, (that was his first mistake) how I could feel safe without a gun...
when I pointed out that I feel actually perfectly safe and am in fact so, he just couldn't believe it... and I suspect therein lies the difference.
__________________
member formally known as Renmarkable.
mikado is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2015, 02:10 AM   #108
fromdownunder
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,494
Originally Posted by mikado View Post
I think the average Australian finds the American attitude towards guns mind boggling....
I actually find it all rather funny rather than mind boggling (It's a cultural thing - many Aussies have a weird sense of humour and the pro gun lobby simply cannot understand how funny we think that they are - even when we do not even oppose gun ownership)

We have a perfectly harmless thread, and a couple of American members find it, and a need to quote an 8 year old statement from I retired frootloop Senator, or try a "what if" and try to start a fight, because, apparently there are not enough real gun threads to keep their adrenaline going, and they NEED gun threads to assert how important it is to own guns.

Well I own about 150,000 different stamps, about 2,000 books (mostly SF) and a huge DVD and VCR Video Library. Oh! And no guns.That suite me, even though I cannot shoot any of my collections.

They just don't understand...

Norm
__________________
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in Vain


fromdownunder is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2015, 05:01 AM   #109
Giz
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,579
Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post

They just don't understand...

Norm
You know, this really goes both ways (most of the Australian posts here have been fantasies about strange straw gunners that bear little relationship to actual gun owners)
Giz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2015, 05:21 AM   #110
uvar
Critical Thinker
 
uvar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Where I am
Posts: 412
The gun situation seems to be working pretty well, but, anecdotally, we do seem to have a bit of an arson problem. And alcohol and drug problems. But the latter two would probably be worse with easy access to guns, so swings and roundabouts I suppose.
__________________
put tiny words on my posts how change signature forum signatue ideas best sandwich filling to disguise mold steal forum signature not get caught peanut butter expiry danger pictures how clear search history
uvar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2015, 06:23 AM   #111
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 9,949
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
And that isn't a problem because...?
It is a problem that the importing country has to try to solve. Trying to blame someone else will get you nowhere.

Ranb
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2015, 06:27 AM   #112
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 9,949
Originally Posted by mikado View Post
well said.
I think the average Australian finds the American attitude towards guns mind boggling....
in my travels I once met a lovely American guy, who very well meaning, asked, as a sensible woman, (that was his first mistake) how I could feel safe without a gun...
when I pointed out that I feel actually perfectly safe and am in fact so, he just couldn't believe it... and I suspect therein lies the difference.
So how is it that you and others on this forum can't possibly comprehend that a person might engage in collecting guns without some other motivation? Why am I supposed to be paranoid just because I have a gun collection? While I coach others and frequently shoot some of my many guns at a rifle range, how does this make me paranoid? I rarely ever carry a gun. I've never claimed that guns made me feel safer and in the past I've even explained how carrying makes me uncomfortable.

Ranb
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2015, 06:29 AM   #113
Gawdzilla Sama
121.92-meter mutant fire-breathing lizard-thingy
 
Gawdzilla Sama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Northern St. Louis County, Missouri.
Posts: 42,180
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
It is a problem that the importing country has to try to solve. Trying to blame someone else will get you nowhere.

Ranb
I remember the uproar when Japan was forced to import "Bonanza".

Well, it was uproarious hearing a Japanese voice come out of Hoss Cartwright.
__________________
Guns that are instantly available for use are instantly available for misuse.
World War II Diplomatic and Political Resources
Hyperwar, WWII Military History
Buying conspiracy books is a voluntary tax on stupid.
Gawdzilla Sama is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2015, 06:30 AM   #114
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 44,741
Ranb

Rarely ever carry a gun?

Hilarious.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2015, 06:34 AM   #115
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 9,949
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Probably doesn't count in your eyes though because he was killed by a black kid and not a "responsible" gun owner.
So you've decided to group me in with those sick racist ****'s just criticize the opinions of someone who doesn't conform to your ideal mode of behavior? What do you know about my attitude towards murder or gun laws that makes you think I would dismiss the actions of a murderer as "doesn't count"? You seemed to be much more civil in the past, but now your willingness to stoop to such a low level sickens me.

Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Ranb

Rarely ever carry a gun?

Hilarious.
So you are saying I carry often? Any evidence to support this lie?

Ranb

Last edited by Ranb; 17th April 2015 at 06:36 AM.
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2015, 06:39 AM   #116
Brian-M
Daydreamer
 
Brian-M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,044
Originally Posted by Noztradamus View Post
Guns don't kill people, [...]
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Guns don't kill people. [...]

Guns don't kill people. Bullets do.
__________________
"That is just what you feel, that isn't reality." - hamelekim
Brian-M is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2015, 07:05 AM   #117
elgarak
Illuminator
 
elgarak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,430
Originally Posted by Brian-M View Post
Guns don't kill people. Bullets do.
Not even all bullets; only those that impact humans with sufficient velocity.
elgarak is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th April 2015, 06:22 PM   #118
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 64,690
Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
I actually find it all rather funny rather than mind boggling...
I would find it funny if hundreds of people weren't dying every day because of the utterly ludicrous number of guns rattling around in the country.

Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
It is a problem that the importing country has to try to solve. Trying to blame someone else will get you nowhere.
Ah, so your response is

__________________
Self-described nerd. Pronouns: He/Him

My mom told me she tries never to make fun of people for not knowing something.
- Randall Munroe
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th April 2015, 06:57 PM   #119
Giz
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,579
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
You really hate that your fellow countrymen have the freedom to partake or abstain from American culture.
Giz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th April 2015, 07:00 PM   #120
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 9,949
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I would find it funny if hundreds of people weren't dying every day because of the utterly ludicrous number of guns rattling around in the country.
It appears you do find it to be funny. When there is a seller there is always a buyer. Why are your countrymen buying this American stuff then?

Ranb
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:48 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.