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#161 |
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#162 |
Pi
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 18,731
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What, during your research, did you look for to demonstrate to yourself that your underlying assumptions are wrong? What evidence would you have to see to be convinced that your initial position was inaccurate? Did you set about trying to prove or disprove your assumptions? |
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Up the River! Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted] |
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#163 |
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,627
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Why are you arguing against my methodology as opposed to presenting evidence? It's a well-worn tactic and doesn't really wash any more. But since you ask, here's a funny fact. I began to research the topic in some depth due to discussions on this very forum. I had posted an argument broadly opposite to that I'm making today and did some extra research in order to prove my point and rebut someone else's. What I actually found was that it was my viewpoint that was flawed, hence I changed it.
Is this the kind of thing you're meaning? |
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#164 |
Pi
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 18,731
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Because, when asked for evidence, you said this:
Which struck me as lacking both in evidence and apparent rigor in your research. Of course, because you haven't presented your research, I can't really argue with it.
Quote:
It's not a 'tactic'. Analysis of methodology is essential to understanding the reliability of any research. "Here are my numbers", holds no water. "Here are my numbers and this is how and where I got them from" does.
Quote:
Yes, it is. Again, I haven't seen your research so I have no idea how you have accounted for your bias, in either direction. |
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Up the River! Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted] |
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#165 |
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,627
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Well no, what actually happened is that in the middle of a discussion I was told, "Show your analysis," as if I could upload a PDF to illustrate some five or ten years' thinking on the matter. If someone demanded the same of you during a discussion would you be willing or able to schlep out a written account of how you came to hold your opinion? I think not.
If I cite numbers then I either post where I got them, or if somebody asks I'll be happy to provide a link. That's a bit different from presenting an analysis of how you came to hold a certain opinion. You think racism is bad? Show your analysis! It's nothing more than a derailment and a delaying tactic. You don't need to see my research, but the fact you equate bias with opinion says a lot. |
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#166 |
Pi
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 18,731
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Opinion can be a sort of bias, but that's sort of not the point. You will, whether you know it or not, have a bias. This will, unless you carefully control for it, heavily influence what you believe to be your unbiased research. I'm afraid I suspect that your research over how ever long it has been has simply been you seeking out things that confirm your bias (known or unknown) and ignoring (consciously or unconsciously) evidence that doesn't. Of course, I can't prove this either way, I haven't seen what it is that's caused you to arrive at your conclusion, but, without strict controls for bias, I wouldn't trust anyone's (including my own) ad hoc research that ends up simply confirming the initial, unresearched opinion. |
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Up the River! Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted] |
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#167 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7,326
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Refusing to acknowledge simple facts won't get you far.
(And there's also the fact that the great majority of Asian families immigrated to the US (at least) very recently, with wealth intact, while quite a few parts of the US still actively work to drain wealth from black families in particular, via prison labor, divestment from neighborhoods, asset forfeitures, and in towns like Ferguson, heavy fines. Oddly, when we look to groups that show up without wealth, particularly Vienamese and Laotians, they end up faring worse than black Americans, not better, in income, education, and other measures) |
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#168 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7,326
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Depends on why they bring it up, same as anyone else.
It's pretty common for a white person to only bring up so-called "black on black crime" in order to either state that black people are genetically inferior to white people, or to shift the discussion from another topic, such as police brutality, and very often in defense of whatever violence is under discussion - here's a great example from Rudy Guiliani. When it comes time to clean up lead exposure, it's "there's no money for that!", when people are marching, mentoring kids, and the like, they're nowhere to be found - only to whine about how black people "never talk about crime". An asian person who does the same thing can still be presumed to be a racist of some sort - as can anyone else regardless of skin color. |
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#169 |
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,975
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#170 |
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,975
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Calm down, calm down. Think these things through. Don't get too excited before reading the entire thread. The argument was that white skeptics on this forum were exposed to more lead as infants than the young black youths of today did. The paper he cited supported this so you can relax now.
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#171 |
Suspended
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Posts: 7,975
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#172 |
Suspended
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#173 |
Suspended
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#174 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Cole Valley, CA
Posts: 3,678
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So called black on black crime?
It is interesting to see you and other racism-fetishists give such short shrift to such a rampant and widespread problem. Black on black violence is one of the main problems facing the black community and it is being ignored by people like you who would rather talk about isolated incidents that fit your feel-good racism narrative. If you were as concerned about the real world problems the community faces as you are with Internet posturing your focus would be much different. |
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I drink to the general joy o' th' whole table. --William Shakespeare |
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#175 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7,326
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He traffics in the same stereotypes and wildly simplistic thinking when it comes to black communities as any white racist, he never seems to be around when people are putting in any actual anti-violence work, he frequently recommends crappy thinkers like Heather MacDonald, so yes.
(I'm nice - a lot of people just straight-up call him a coon) |
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#176 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 16,047
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Yup, that data was linked to in the article I linked to. How can that be? Didn't baron say the article was unsupported?
Well, it was supported. As far as we can tell it is true. Coming here with money and support networks intact leads to better outcomes than without them. That some are systemically and generationally denied access to these is a huge problem. |
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Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong |
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#177 |
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,627
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It's an opinion piece. The only support it has is a few other people who have the same opinion. It basically revolves around OK, Asians experience racism but a different racism, and not all Asians excel because look at the Bhutanese (who, the article omits to mention, comprise 0.006% of the US population).
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#178 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7,326
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You act like we haven't heard these exact stereotypes being perpetuated incessantly - the truth is that many people apply them even at the absolutely worst time (see: Maher blathering about how he was expecting Barack Obama to be :"gangsta", the "thug" stereotype being applied to "Jesus Walks" rapper Kanye West, or to Richard Sherman).
Compare to the "Tiger Mom" myth, or the "Asians are hard, obedient workers" crap. |
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#179 |
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,627
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I don't know what any of that means, but you appear to be concentrating on individual cases rather than group trends. Different peoples have different cultures and these cultural attitudes vary in multiple ways, resulting in disparate outcomes. This is not controversial until it throws up data the listener would rather not consider, and in response they say things like, "You act like we haven't heard these exact stereotypes being perpetuated incessantly."
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#180 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 16,047
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__________________
Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong |
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#181 |
Guest
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,742
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wilding season is back
In Chicago.
Chicago police on Monday said 21 people were arrested Saturday around the River North and Magnificent Mile neighborhoods in the first “mob” activity of 2019. The high arrest count is the result of a new, less-tolerant approach by police assigned to handle "large group" incidents in the downtown area. I am sure that we will shortly hear the ministers and community activists dealing the race cards. Fortunately, a good guy with a gun was able to stop some of the bullying abuse: Man pulls out a gun to stop an attack Welcome to spring in the City! |
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#182 |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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#183 |
Guest
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,742
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Update to the above link:
Quote:
Still find it a bit odd that the folks in the restaurant did not start saying "Oh no" until after the guy who was being beaten by two guns pulled his gun.... |
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#184 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 3,350
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Why are conservatives obsessed with Chicago. What's the punchline?
Because so called black-on-black crime [crime] occurs at a high rate? Are black spokesmen we see on TV a lot supposed to put in end to it by themselves before calling out U.S. conservatives? Obama being from there is perhaps a plus. |
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#185 |
Guest
Join Date: Jul 2007
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#186 |
Not a doctor.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 19,511
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Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake. |
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#187 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7,326
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That doesn't explain every other conservative ranting about it, though. The fact that Obama lived there, and thus was supposed to lower crime as a congressman, is a part of their nonsense.
The other is that it's the largest US city with a somewhat high murder rate, and thus posts a large number of murders in absolute numbers. Cities like Baltimore, St. Louis, and New Orleans have much higher murder rats, but they all have much smaller populations. It's worth noting that all of the above also have well known problems with policing - while Chigaco certainly has some severe problems (here's the latest "controversy"), they aren't outright collapsing like Baltimore's PD, they weren't involved in an outright attack on an entire neighborhood like St. Louis, and they aren't quite as legendary as New Orleans PD. |
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#188 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,125
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Seems to be exaggerated use of violence when arresting a student:
Quote:
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#189 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7,326
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Indeed, and they initially wanted to charge the student with assaulting an officer or some such, and were "outraged" when the DA (yes, the same one everyone's screaming about in the Smollett case) refused to do so. Naturally, people who see this, and of course the girl that was basically attacked without cause, will distrust the cops after watching a girl get choked, tossed down a flight of stairs, tased, etc. for no apparent reason.
Regardless, I can think of only one other major reason why Chicago is relatively bad compared to NYC in particular - NYC had an aggressive lead abatement program, and lead has been linked to poor impulse control and higher levels of violence in mammals. Again, despite what Dolt 45 is doing today, the US should seriously look into lead abatement as a nationwide effort to lower violence in cities. |
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#190 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,631
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I'm in Memphis, which routinely scores #1 on homicide rates. I used to think it was the lead, at least in part, but no longer do, after looking into the CDC data. The most lead poisoned people today in the US are only a teeny tiny bit poisoned compared to virtually everyone who grew up in the 60's and 70's. It's been a while since I looked at it, but it's by something of a factor of 10 to one, if I remember correctly. I think lead levels are marker of socioeconomic status, and it's the poverty that's screwing with people's minds.
I see kids growing up in homes with lead pipes and peeling lead paint, and if their mothers and other family members are gentle and attentive, they mysteriously don't have the aggression problems the kids from the messed up, dramatic families do. I'm still in favor of lead abatement! It's never good, and it might be taking a couple of IQ points off everyone, or giving a small subset of the population a mild predisposition to emotional difficulties, or something like that, but I truly don't feel it's the cause of the violence. I also think there's a danger in people thinking kids from the inner city are all "brain damaged" (and thus hopeless) and ignoring the socioeconomic causes of violence. |
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"We are enjoined, no matter how uncomfortable it might be, to consider ourselves and our cultural institutions scientifically — not to accept uncritically whatever we’re told; to surmount as best we can our hopes, conceits, and unexamined beliefs; to view ourselves as we really are." - Carl Sagan |
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#191 |
"más divertido"
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 20,723
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One of the Chicago TV stations filmed a guy being attacked by 3 teens on the bridge to the lakefront bike path, which is apparently a thing that is happening lately. I look for much hysteria to come from this. It's right on my running / biking route, so I will be sure to add a samurai sword to my pack for this weekend.
Bonus - It's at the 47th street walkover, so about a mile from Obama / Rezko's old house! |
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#192 |
"más divertido"
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 20,723
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I'll second this. One of the reasons I didn't vote for William Daley in the last election was his accepting huge donations from the Plumbers Union. The clout of this union made Chicago the last city to ban lead piping. Here they are in 1986 saying that lead pipe is still the best.
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#193 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,638
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What is this gun? I was looking for Smollett news and found this instead. An AK-47 pistol? Modified for automatic?
There is a photo and you can enlarge it. http://www.cwbchicago.com/2019/04/fe...chine-gun.html |
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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#194 |
Potsing Whiled Runk
Tagger
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 20,865
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