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Old 31st October 2018, 12:47 PM   #41
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So here's a question for our Aussie friends.

How "bad" are your elections? How far out do candidates start campaigning? How dirty are the ads? How much do they spend?

Do you get three flyers for the same candidate (including an attack flyer on another candidate from the candidate) in your mailbox in one day? And this wasn't for Senator or Governor but for "State Agricultural Commissioner."

Voter disillusionment is not justified in America, but it is understandable.
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Old 31st October 2018, 12:50 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Nearest thing to that we have the US is the Chicago Style Hot Dog, which is a Hot DOg with a Garden of veggies on it.
Grilled Italian sausage with peppers and onions is common street fare. Likewise bratwurst, with or without sauerkraut, is also common.
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Old 31st October 2018, 12:56 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Kangaroo meat?
Not the fare of the average sausage sizzle but I can go into my local Coles or Woolworths (big supermarket chains) and buy kangaroo sausages and various cuts.

https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/p...as-bush-tomato
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Old 31st October 2018, 01:09 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
So here's a question for our Aussie friends.

How "bad" are your elections? How far out do candidates start campaigning? How dirty are the ads? How much do they spend?

Do you get three flyers for the same candidate (including an attack flyer on another candidate from the candidate) in your mailbox in one day? And this wasn't for Senator or Governor but for "State Agricultural Commissioner."

Voter disillusionment is not justified in America, but it is understandable.
Campaigning can start quite early. With a federal election due next year I have been seeing paid political advertising on YouTube for most of this year from Clive Palmer who is promising to make Australia great again, with I believe some degree of tongue in cheek. Politics can get pretty dirty but I think many of us cynicaly switch off to over the top negative campaignig. We do get respite, from what is fairly tolerable anyway, with three days of campaign media silence before the vote.
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Old 31st October 2018, 01:13 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
So here's a question for our Aussie friends.

How "bad" are your elections? How far out do candidates start campaigning? How dirty are the ads? How much do they spend?

Do you get three flyers for the same candidate (including an attack flyer on another candidate from the candidate) in your mailbox in one day? And this wasn't for Senator or Governor but for "State Agricultural Commissioner."

Voter disillusionment is not justified in America, but it is understandable.
I live in a safe conservative seat in the UK. I haven't received election material of any description for the last 3 general elections or local council elections. It certainly helps reduce the recycling burden.
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Old 31st October 2018, 01:27 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Or you pay the fine and move on with life.
Why is there even a fine in the first place? Why is it so important to you that I be punished for not voting?
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Old 31st October 2018, 01:48 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Why is there even a fine in the first place? Why is it so important to you that I be punished for not voting?
It is considered important that people vote, hence the fine. It is an element of compulsion in our compulsory voting concept.

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Old 31st October 2018, 01:51 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
It is considered important that people vote, hence the fine.
But you don't fine people for going to the polling place and spoiling their ballot. You don't fine people for blindly pulling the lever. You fine people purely for the sin of not taking time out of their day to act out the superficial semblance of an empty ritual.

The fine is there not because it's considered important that people vote, but because you consider it important to have the appearance of voting.

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Old 31st October 2018, 01:54 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
But you don't fine people for going to the polling place and spoiling their ballot. You don't fine people for blindly pulling the lever. You fine people purely for the sin of not taking time out of their day to act out the superficial semblance of an empty ritual.

The fine is there not because it's considered important that people vote, but because you consider it important to have the appearance of voting.
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Old 31st October 2018, 01:56 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
But you don't fine people for going to the polling place and spoiling their ballot.

You don't fine people for blindly pulling the lever.

Shouldn't the importance of voting be an individual choice, and not a state-mandated value?
Go ahead in making that argument. However as I mentioned earlier we have very different ideas as a society on freedom and social obligations than the average American. Think about the way we talk in the gun control threads. We generally have a different perspective on government delivered order and social welfare than you do. While not made explicit, I think we are more bought into the social contract idea than Americans.

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Old 31st October 2018, 03:02 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
White bread! Seek help.......
Agreed! Anglo white bread is disgusting.
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Old 31st October 2018, 04:03 PM   #52
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Also, there are no "voting machines" - no pulling levers. Votes are always carried out with actual pencil and paper.

In one federal election - it might have been either the 2010 or the 2013 election, my House of Reps ballot paper was literally a metre long, with 113 candidates, each of which I numbered in order.
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Old 31st October 2018, 04:55 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
But you don't fine people for going to the polling place and spoiling their ballot. You don't fine people for blindly pulling the lever. You fine people purely for the sin of not taking time out of their day to act out the superficial semblance of an empty ritual.

The fine is there not because it's considered important that people vote, but because you consider it important to have the appearance of voting.
About 90% of Australians vote, about 5% of these are invalid (and, no people cannot be fined for a spoiled ballot - because it is a secret Ballot) and a guesstimate is that about 1% are donkey votes.

So 85% of enrolled voters - and enrolling is theoretically mandatory- take voting in our democracy a serious responsibility. And oddly enough, it works pretty well. For example, at a State Election in Queensland, Labor was so on the nose, that it got kicked out of Government and the Liberals got 78 seats, with Labor getting only seven, the biggest one party majority ever. The prediction was that Labor would be in the wilderness for at least the next decade but they won the next election.

There are other voting options. Pre-Polling stations are open for a couple of weeks before each election so any day of the week where you happen to be out of the house, you can go and vote. And you can Postal Vote - that means asking for the ballot to be sent to you by mail and you vote, and mail it back. If you are in Hospital, the Ballot paper is bought to you.

The bar for avoiding fines is also pretty low. The Electoral Commission sends you a letter asking why you did not vote. You can reply with pretty much any reasonable excuse, and that is it. No fine. E.T.A. The one time in 50 years that I missed out on voting I told them that I had posted my Ballot, and it must have been lost in the post. Heard nothing more.

Don't govern properly and don't take the voters seriously = look for another job. We do take our democratic responsibilities rather seriously, as does the Electoral Commission.

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Old 31st October 2018, 05:27 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
What is this "Democracy Sausage" of which they speak?


I have never heard this phrase used in 50 years of voting, Federal, State and local. I am certainly familiar with Sausage Sizzles, which are everywhere on a Saturday including outside supermarkets and shopping complexes, on beaches, in backyards (I was eating sausages in Bread over 60 years ago), and on election days as local community fundraisers.



But Democracy Sausage? It was, is and always will be a Sausage Sizzle, and is not even close to defining snags eaten outside a Polling Booth on election days. Some people vote early, and don't have breakfast just thinking they will grab a sausage and a Coffee at the Community Hall/School, RSL etc. That is the tradition.
I believe that "Democracy Sausage" is a fairly recent term. I've only been using it in the last three or four elections, I think. Yes, it's a sausage sizzle, but a sausage in bread that you get at a sausage sizzle at a polling place during an election is always a Democracy Sausage. You don't get Democracy Sausages on the weekend at Bunnings.

And for the Americans, yes, there is a standard sausage in Australia that is called just a "sausage". It's not an Italian sausage, or a German sausage, or an English sausage, it's just a sausage. We can certainly get all those, but Australia may be the only place in the world that has a default sausage. Maybe New Zealand as well. No-one really knows exactly what goes into it, but we all presume that it's made with beef. It's never taken out of its case and formed into patties, though it is sometimes butterflied. It's always barbequed or grilled, never boiled, and it's usually served with some kind of sauce. Where I'm from, tomato sauce is usual - as someone mentioned, this is not as sweet as American ketchup - but some prefer barbeque sauce instead. Grilled onions are also a good accompaniment, and yellow mustard is usually also provided, but nothing else. And yes, it's always in white bread.
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Old 31st October 2018, 05:38 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
No-one really knows exactly what goes into it, but we all presume that it's made with beef.

I have watched them being made at a Butchers. You don't want to know. And there really are two sausages - beef or pork, or so we are told.


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Old 31st October 2018, 05:43 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
I have watched them being made at a Butchers. You don't want to know. And there really are two sausages - beef or pork, or so we are told.
Yeah, but the normal ones are - apparently - beef.

Personally I'm rather fond of the Kanga Banger.
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Old 31st October 2018, 09:40 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
So here's a question for our Aussie friends.

How "bad" are your elections? How far out do candidates start campaigning? How dirty are the ads? How much do they spend?

Do you get three flyers for the same candidate (including an attack flyer on another candidate from the candidate) in your mailbox in one day? And this wasn't for Senator or Governor but for "State Agricultural Commissioner."

Voter disillusionment is not justified in America, but it is understandable.
Obviously no matter when it is politicians won't pass up a chance to take a pot shot at their opponent, but the official campaign is about 6 weeks. You'll generally get a flyer per party over the course of that campaign, the rest you'll see on tv, newspapers or at local events, plus of course online.
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Old 31st October 2018, 09:41 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Also, there are no "voting machines" - no pulling levers. Votes are always carried out with actual pencil and paper.

In one federal election - it might have been either the 2010 or the 2013 election, my House of Reps ballot paper was literally a metre long, with 113 candidates, each of which I numbered in order.
You sure that wasn't your senate paper?
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Old 31st October 2018, 09:57 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Damien Evans View Post
You sure that wasn't your senate paper?
Of course it was. Did I say Reps? That was wrong.
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Old 31st October 2018, 10:04 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Of course it was. Did I say Reps? That was wrong.
Was the around when the Party! Party! Party! ran with other joke parties, leading to a change requiring a constitution and more than 100 members?
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Old 31st October 2018, 10:56 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Was the around when the Party! Party! Party! ran with other joke parties, leading to a change requiring a constitution and more than 100 members?
That was back in the 80s, it was the Party Party Party Party Party, and they were running against the Sun-Dried Warm Tomato Party.

No, this was a recent federal election. Like I said, 2010 or 2013. Something like 113 candidates.
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Old 31st October 2018, 11:17 PM   #62
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A typical Ballot Paper for the Australian Senate.





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Old 1st November 2018, 02:15 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
And for the Americans, yes, there is a standard sausage in Australia that is called just a "sausage". It's not an Italian sausage, or a German sausage, or an English sausage, it's just a sausage. We can certainly get all those, but Australia may be the only place in the world that has a default sausage.
Britain has always had a default sausage for as long as I can remember (in the interests of specificity, that would be since 1962). It's only ever been called a British Sausage in Yes, Minister.

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Old 1st November 2018, 06:26 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
If the Aussie Sausage is just the British "Banger"they are available in the US at the fancy gourmet Grocery stores and British themed Restaurants.
Really? I read a blog recently where an American tried to recreate a Full English Breakfast in the States, and virtually every single component part of it was wrong in one way or another, including what he used for sausage. He even cooked the eggs the wrong way.

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Old 1st November 2018, 06:31 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Kangaroo meat?
"What's that, Skippy? Om-nom-nom!"
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Old 1st November 2018, 06:34 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
But you don't fine people for going to the polling place and spoiling their ballot. You don't fine people for blindly pulling the lever. You fine people purely for the sin of not taking time out of their day to act out the superficial semblance of an empty ritual.
I think there is a major cultural disconnect in play here....
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Old 1st November 2018, 06:44 AM   #67
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If we had mandatory voting in America I'm about 99% certain our next President would be the popular write in candidate "Crudely Drawn Dick and Balls."
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Old 1st November 2018, 06:51 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
If we had mandatory voting in America I'm about 99% certain our next President would be the popular write in candidate "Crudely Drawn Dick and Balls."
Isn't he already the president?
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Old 1st November 2018, 06:55 AM   #69
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No my point was even in America with non-mandatory voting and very lower voter turnout people will take the time to register to vote, go vote, and put in a stupid write in candidate.

In the Roy Moore / Doug Jones run-off election there was 23,000 joke write in candidates in an election where a pedophile lost by pretty much only the margin of error.

I don't see "Mandatory voting" in the states leading to anything but worse and worse cases of that.
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Old 1st November 2018, 07:14 AM   #70
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I think participation would be higher if it were more convenient to vote. I have to get up an hour early and drive to some school where there's no parking except on crowded streets, in the dark, then stand in line anywhere from twenty minutes to two hours, then go on to work a full day plus whatever time I missed while voting.

Just changing it to Saturdays instead of Tuesdays would be a big help. Most people work on Tuesdays.
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Old 1st November 2018, 07:16 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
They do that here. There is a ballot to decide order, otherwise there would be a series of Aaron Aardvarks candidates or Aaussie Advance parties.....
I was thinking more of randoming it between individual papers, not the whole batch for a particular constituency.
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Old 1st November 2018, 07:18 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I think participation would be higher if it were more convenient to vote. I have to get up an hour early and drive to some school where there's no parking except on crowded streets, in the dark, then stand in line anywhere from twenty minutes to two hours, then go on to work a full day plus whatever time I missed while voting.

Just changing it to Saturdays instead of Tuesdays would be a big help. Most people work on Tuesdays.
Honestly I think in today's modern society no single "day" is ever gonna suffice.

At least a solid week, including reasonable times on the weekend.

Part of me is just like "seriously just whenever." Since candidates start campaigning 37 centuries out from the voting day and 99% of the population makes up their mind who they are going to vote for as soon as the parties announce their candidates part of me almost wants to say "Literally at any point after the last election."
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Old 1st November 2018, 07:20 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Damien Evans View Post
<> And an Aussie sausage has more sawdust and less meat than an English one.
How is that possible? Surely it'd be some soft of log then.
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Old 1st November 2018, 07:21 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Britain has always had a default sausage for as long as I can remember (in the interests of specificity, that would be since 1962). It's only ever been called a British Sausage in Yes, Minister.

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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
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Old 1st November 2018, 07:37 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I think participation would be higher if it were more convenient to vote. I have to get up an hour early and drive to some school where there's no parking except on crowded streets, in the dark, then stand in line anywhere from twenty minutes to two hours, then go on to work a full day plus whatever time I missed while voting.

Just changing it to Saturdays instead of Tuesdays would be a big help. Most people work on Tuesdays.
For as long as I can remember, where I've voted has been at the most ten minutes walk from where I've lived, often less, notwithstanding the fact I've always lived in cities. I usually vote after work, as polling stations close at 22:00. Most times there's never been a queue, and even when there was, it was never more than five people, if that.

Going on the last general election, the UK had 41,000 polling stations - one for every 1,135 regsitered voters on average. After a lot of digging, I finally found out that there were 116,990 polling places in the 2016 US presidential election, which works out at one for every 1980 registered voters - almost double the UK number.

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Old 1st November 2018, 07:40 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I think participation would be higher if it were more convenient to vote. I have to get up an hour early and drive to some school where there's no parking except on crowded streets, in the dark, then stand in line anywhere from twenty minutes to two hours, then go on to work a full day plus whatever time I missed while voting.

Just changing it to Saturdays instead of Tuesdays would be a big help. Most people work on Tuesdays.
That's kind of crazy. I wander out of my house, aim towards the office, on the way I call in at the Art Centre or, (annoyingly, depending on where the polling station is set up) might have to cross the road to the village hall. Sometimes I mix it up a bit and do it on my way home.

I give them my name and post code, they tick me off the electoral roll, give me a ballot, and I tick a box. Normally takes a minute or less, and I've never had to stand in a queue. Not even a one person queue.

Polling stations are open from quite early (no idea, I don't do mornings) until quite late. Probably about 10pm.
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Old 1st November 2018, 07:41 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
For as long as I can remember, where I've voted has been at the most ten minutes walk from where I've lived, often less, notwithstanding the fact I've always lived in cities. I usually vote after work, as polling stations close at 22:00. Most times there's never been a queue, and even when there was, it was never more than five people, if that.

Going on the last general election, the UK had 41,000 polling stations - one for every 1,135 regsitered voters on average. After a lot of digging, I finally found out that there were 116,990 polling places in the 2016 US presidential election, which works out at one for every 1980 registered voters - almost double the UK number.
I live in a city. I could walk to the school in question in twenty minutes, but it's in a bad neighborhood and I'd almost certainly be mugged, since I'd have to go before sun up.
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Old 1st November 2018, 07:42 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
For as long as I can remember, where I've voted has been at the most ten minutes walk from where I've lived, often less, notwithstanding the fact I've always lived in cities.
This is America, not Europe. A good chunk of our population doesn't live within a ten minute walk of their own mailbox.
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Old 1st November 2018, 07:43 AM   #79
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Also, I don't know who runs the polls elsewhere, but in the US it's mostly elderly crazies who don't know how to operate any sort of machine, and have great difficulty looking up names on lists, seeing things hearing things, and continuing living.
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Old 1st November 2018, 07:44 AM   #80
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Here in Florida you can vote, without providing a reason, anywhere from Oct 23 to Nov 6 and our polling place was open 10-6 all 7 days of the week. Me and my wife voted last Saturday at about 11:00 in the morning and there was zero line and like 8 of the 10 booths were open.

But this varies widely from district to district, even more widely from state to state.
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