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Old 30th March 2019, 07:54 AM   #1
Arcade22
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Do leggings make women just too arousing for Catholic men (and women) to handle?

Quote:
I’ve thought about writing this letter for a long time. I waited, hoping that fashions would change and such a letter would be unnecessary — but that doesn’t seem to be happening. I’m not trying to insult anyone or infringe upon anyone’s rights. I’m just a Catholic mother of four sons with a problem that only girls can solve: leggings.

The emergence of leggings as pants some years ago baffled me. They’re such an unforgiving garment. Last fall, they obtruded painfully on my landscape. I was at Mass at the Basilica with my family. In front of us was a group of young women, all wearing very snug-fitting leggings and all wearing short-waisted tops (so that the lower body was uncovered except for the leggings). Some of them truly looked as though the leggings had been painted on them.

A world in which women continue to be depicted as “babes” by movies, video games, music videos, etc. makes it hard on Catholic mothers to teach their sons that women are someone’s daughters and sisters. That women should be viewed first as people — and all people should be considered with respect.

...

I was ashamed for the young women at Mass. I thought of all the other men around and behind us who couldn’t help but see their behinds. My sons know better than to ogle a woman’s body — certainly when I’m around (and hopefully, also when I’m not). They didn’t stare, and they didn’t comment afterwards. But you couldn’t help but see those blackly naked rear ends. I didn’t want to see them — but they were unavoidable. How much more difficult for young guys to ignore them.

...

Leggings are so naked, so form fitting, so exposing. Could you think of the mothers of sons the next time you go shopping and consider choosing jeans instead? Let Notre Dame girls be the first to turn their backs(ides) on leggings. You have every right to wear them. But you have every right to choose not to. Thanks for listening to the lecture. Catholic moms are good at those!
https://ndsmcobserver.com/2019/03/the-legging-problem/

Can Catholic men (and perhaps more importantly, women) handle seeing women clad in form-fitting garments that emphasize their bottoms and legs? They clearly wear it because they wish to emphasize their rears, or at the very least don't care if it does.

Should all those young shapely women out there have more concern for those catholic mothers of sons and stop trying to lead them into debauchery and sin? I can understand their concern as i too find that very arousing, but as I'm not a catholic, or a mother for that matter, i can enjoy this completely guilt free.
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Last edited by Arcade22; 30th March 2019 at 07:56 AM.
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Old 30th March 2019, 07:58 AM   #2
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Did Marge Simpson write this?
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Old 30th March 2019, 08:06 AM   #3
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They didn’t stare, and they didn’t comment afterwards.
You know why? Because they don't care.

I can tell you, these guys are in a college environment and this is so common that they don't even notice. Pretty much all the college women are wearing leggings like that, and even some guys are. It's not big deal.

It's kind of like seeing someone with blue hair. I am around enough college students that I don't even notice.

I should mention, it's not only the college students who are wearing leggings. They are all over these days.

It's the same old purity crap that has been for pretty much every fashion trend.
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Old 30th March 2019, 08:09 AM   #4
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It's not an actual letter. It's a fictional letter. Maybe a Poe. Or a Poe of a Poe.

It should be ignored because it isn't real.
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Old 30th March 2019, 08:21 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
You know why? Because they don't care.

I can tell you, these guys are in a college environment and this is so common that they don't even notice. Pretty much all the college women are wearing leggings like that, and even some guys are. It's not big deal.

It's kind of like seeing someone with blue hair. I am around enough college students that I don't even notice.

I should mention, it's not only the college students who are wearing leggings. They are all over these days.

It's the same old purity crap that has been for pretty much every fashion trend.
Not sure I agree. I think a lot of it, ie.- every man I know, is that men definitely notice but act responsibly because it is much better to have that to look at as you walk down the street than the Catholic approved alternative, which is just slightly below the Muslim approved head to toe, heavy black cloth covering.
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Old 30th March 2019, 09:19 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Not sure I agree. I think a lot of it, ie.- every man I know, is that men definitely notice but act responsibly because it is much better to have that to look at as you walk down the street than the Catholic approved alternative, which is just slightly below the Muslim approved head to toe, heavy black cloth covering.
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Old 30th March 2019, 09:38 AM   #7
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I think if they have the legs for it more men should wear leggings.
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Old 30th March 2019, 09:47 AM   #8
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In the UK in summer, more women wear leggings than don't.
They are more or less standard everyday wear.
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Old 30th March 2019, 09:49 AM   #9
3point14
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I think if they have the legs for it more men should wear leggings.
I don't think it's the legs most men would worry about being squeezed into leggings.
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Old 30th March 2019, 10:11 AM   #10
pgwenthold
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I think if they have the legs for it more men should wear leggings.
I wear my running pants a lot. Don't know if I have the legs for it, but I don't care. I run at random times and places, so wear my leggings in the meantime
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Old 30th March 2019, 10:17 AM   #11
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You all know what Jesus said:

"It is easier for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God than for a Catholic who keeps thinking of cameltoes."
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Old 30th March 2019, 10:41 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I think if they have the legs for it more men should wear leggings.
I tell you what, man: I wore a pair of yoga pants once and I say with all due modesty that my ass looked awesome.

Wetsuits, too. Wear one surfing and they sculpt you to look like a superhero. There's a reason for all that lycra in Marvel and DC
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Old 30th March 2019, 10:45 AM   #13
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The letter writer in the OP really notices young women in leggings!
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Old 30th March 2019, 10:53 AM   #14
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Meh ... she doesn't want to see leggings when she goes to Mass.
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Old 30th March 2019, 10:54 AM   #15
pgwenthold
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
The letter writer in the OP really notices young women in leggings!
Yeah. William Parcher claims it is a Poe. I wouldn't say that, but I wonder if the author is not who it claims to be.

I'd suggest it was written by a priest, but given the focus is on women...(rim shot)
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Old 30th March 2019, 11:01 AM   #16
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I generally find myself very much on the "It's nobody else's business how women choose to dress" side of this issue. But reading this has me thinking of a particular devil's advocate that I can't easily dismiss.

Issues of women's clothes get brought up in so many context where the answer seems clear to me:

No, women do not bear any level of responsibility for being raped because of ANYTHING they might have chosen to wear.

No, It is not reasonable to expect women to cover their hair or faces or entire body to avoid exciting men.

No, it is not acceptable to make negative assumptions about a woman's character based on what she happens to be wearing. The whole world has a history of that being oppressive BS.

However.

I can't go so far as to say that it's impossible for the way a person presents themself to have a predictable and causal role in what someone else experiences emotionally and psychologically. I don't think it's sexist or incorrect to say that a particular outfit can cause arousal in another person. I don't think it's reasonable to view arousal and sexual thoughts as a choice made by the person having those thoughts with no relation to things they see.

If someone walks down the street in nothing but body paint with the words "Lick it" across their buttocks, people may be aroused or disgusted or amused by that but I don't think one could reasonably argue that those responses are entirely unrelated to the choice made by the person in body paint.

And we increasingly in western society find ourselves in discussions of when we should care that our words, actions and choices have an emotional impact on others. The trend is that more and more people are choosing to care about those emotional impacts and make considerations in their behavior.

So is it entirely crazy to ask that people be thoughtful about the psychological response clothing choices might evoke? We can talk about where we draw the line, from exposed ankles to yoga pants to nothing but body paint. My personal inkling is that cultural norms decide where that line is, but I wouldn't consider there to be no line, or that people are entirely unreasonable if their cultural experience is out of line with general norms.
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Old 30th March 2019, 11:02 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It's not an actual letter. It's a fictional letter. Maybe a Poe. Or a Poe of a Poe.

It should be ignored because it isn't real.
That ^.

Basilica? Really? Is the letter writer in Spain?

And who uses "Leggings"? Yoga pants I've heard of. I think I need pics for comparison.

But while I enjoy viewing trim bodies, I think camel toes are a bit too far. Same for guys in pants so tight you can not only tell their sex but their religion too.
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Old 30th March 2019, 11:04 AM   #18
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Provided the legs were shapely, I'd rather they were not covered by leggings, any day. From a strictly respectful, non-sexual, part-intellectual-part-esthetic appreciation of the human form perspective. Poe or not, I'm with the mother-of-four.
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Old 30th March 2019, 11:07 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
That ^.

Basilica? Really? Is the letter writer in Spain?
They were at Notre Dame.

The Basilica of the Sacred Heart is there.

https://campusministry.nd.edu/mass-w...-sacred-heart/

No offense, but you obviously don't know anything about this topic.
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Old 30th March 2019, 12:10 PM   #20
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Surprised that no one here has mentioned that some women really shouldn't wear leggings, but not for the reasons given in the OP..
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Old 30th March 2019, 12:15 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Surprised that no one here has mentioned that some women really shouldn't wear leggings, but not for the reasons given in the OP..
Only the attractive ones..?
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Old 30th March 2019, 12:29 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Only the attractive ones..?
Shapely.
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Old 30th March 2019, 12:32 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
That ^.

Basilica? Really? Is the letter writer in Spain?

And who uses "Leggings"? Yoga pants I've heard of. I think I need pics for comparison.

But while I enjoy viewing trim bodies, I think camel toes are a bit too far. Same for guys in pants so tight you can not only tell their sex but their religion too.
Leggings in the UK, I have never seen anyone over here refer to them as 'Yoga Pants'
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Old 30th March 2019, 12:50 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
I can't go so far as to say that it's impossible for the way a person presents themself to have a predictable and causal role in what someone else experiences emotionally and psychologically. I don't think it's sexist or incorrect to say that a particular outfit can cause arousal in another person. I don't think it's reasonable to view arousal and sexual thoughts as a choice made by the person having those thoughts with no relation to things they see.

If someone walks down the street in nothing but body paint with the words "Lick it" across their buttocks, people may be aroused or disgusted or amused by that but I don't think one could reasonably argue that those responses are entirely unrelated to the choice made by the person in body paint.

And we increasingly in western society find ourselves in discussions of when we should care that our words, actions and choices have an emotional impact on others. The trend is that more and more people are choosing to care about those emotional impacts and make considerations in their behavior.

So is it entirely crazy to ask that people be thoughtful about the psychological response clothing choices might evoke? We can talk about where we draw the line, from exposed ankles to yoga pants to nothing but body paint. My personal inkling is that cultural norms decide where that line is, but I wouldn't consider there to be no line, or that people are entirely unreasonable if their cultural experience is out of line with general norms.
I pretty much assume that someone who dresses in an overly sexy, erotic or otherwise very eye-catching fashion either wants people to notice them or that they don't care if they do. I'm not saying that everyone that goes to the beach just wearing a swimsuit or bikini wants to be lewdly ogled on by others, but if you go around town wearing nothing but your hotpants and bra you have no reason to complain about others enjoying the view.

Not that any of this is an excuse for making cat-calls, lewd invitations, uploading photos of them online, grabbing them by their genitals or raping them.
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Old 30th March 2019, 01:05 PM   #25
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Old 30th March 2019, 01:08 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I pretty much assume that someone who dresses in an overly sexy, erotic or otherwise very eye-catching fashion either wants people to notice them or that they don't care if they do. I'm not saying that everyone that goes to the beach just wearing a swimsuit or bikini wants to be lewdly ogled on by others, but if you go around town wearing nothing but your hotpants and bra you have no reason to complain about others enjoying the view.
Exactly, and there was a major upside to spandex for me when I entered a 10km race. The year before the race occurred on my 50th birthday and my goal was to run it in 50 minutes. That would have tied my best pace ever. Well, I failed, 51:22.

The next year I set the same goal, time = age. I was now 51 (race just after my birthday). After about the second kilometre I was passed by a young, very attractive woman running faster than my pace but displaying a spectacular backside in her Lulu Lemon tights. Well, I had to pick up my pace if I wanted to have that great scenery while killing myself for 50 minutes or so. Soon she was out of range but low and behold another, equally spectacular backside passed me, so I upped my pace again to maintain the view. This went on for the full race (There were 50,000 runners and a large portion of the females were of the spectacular backside variety.).

Finish line and what is my time? . . . 48:56!

And that is why I never complain about spectacular backsides wrapped in lycra.
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Old 30th March 2019, 01:09 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I pretty much assume that someone who dresses in an overly sexy, erotic or otherwise very eye-catching fashion either wants people to notice them or that they don't care if they do. I'm not saying that everyone that goes to the beach just wearing a swimsuit or bikini wants to be lewdly ogled on by others, but if you go around town wearing nothing but your hotpants and bra you have no reason to complain about others enjoying the view.
But these are yoga pants, not lingerie or anything.

Women wear them to their yoga class. Clearly, not because they are trying to be sexy, erotic, or otherwise eye-catching or to be noticed. They wear them because they are comfortable when doing yoga. And you know what? They are comfortable when not doing yoga, too.

We can get over the presumption that women are wearing yoga pants all the time in order to show off or titillate.

I'm wearing my running pants right now. Because they are comfortable. It has nothing to do with showing anything off.
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Old 30th March 2019, 01:11 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Women wear them to their yoga class. Clearly, not because they are trying to be sexy, erotic, or otherwise eye-catching or to be noticed.
Yeah, sure.
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Old 30th March 2019, 02:17 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
But these are yoga pants, not lingerie or anything.

Women wear them to their yoga class. Clearly, not because they are trying to be sexy, erotic, or otherwise eye-catching or to be noticed. They wear them because they are comfortable when doing yoga. And you know what? They are comfortable when not doing yoga, too.

We can get over the presumption that women are wearing yoga pants all the time in order to show off or titillate.

I'm wearing my running pants right now. Because they are comfortable. It has nothing to do with showing anything off.
I'm wearing my biggest, baggiest Carhartt jeans right now. I'm only at the PC while I rest- the lawn is only half mowed.

I dress appropriate to the task. What task were the girls engaged in, really?
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Old 30th March 2019, 02:27 PM   #30
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Old 30th March 2019, 02:34 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
I'm wearing my biggest, baggiest Carhartt jeans right now. I'm only at the PC while I rest- the lawn is only half mowed.

I dress appropriate to the task. What task were the girls engaged in, really?
You are wearing what you find comfortable. It has nothing to do with being appropriate for the task. How are baggy jeans more appropriate for sitting at the PC than yoga pants? Or underwear, for that matter?

Similarly, they are wearing what is comfortable. How is that inappropriate?
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Old 30th March 2019, 03:07 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Maryanne White
leggings
baffled
garment
obtruded painfully on my landscape
“babes”
hard on Catholic mothers to teach their sons
see their behinds
ogle
blackly naked rear ends
unavoidable
young guys
so naked
turn their backs(ides)
Thanks for listening to the lecture
Catholic moms

Shame on anyone who thinks that this letter is real. Go back to critical thinking school. Thanks for listening to the lecture.
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Old 30th March 2019, 03:43 PM   #33
Arcade22
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
But these are yoga pants, not lingerie or anything.
I wasn't specifically speaking of leggings there, but there's no denying that tight form-fitting clothing can have an almost erotic appeal, even if their design is mostly or completely based on utilitarian and practical considerations. Leotards worn during gymnastics and one-piece swimsuits are other great examples.

Quote:
Women wear them to their yoga class. Clearly, not because they are trying to be sexy, erotic, or otherwise eye-catching or to be noticed. They wear them because they are comfortable when doing yoga. And you know what? They are comfortable when not doing yoga, too.
Which doesn't exactly contradict what i said earlier.

Quote:
We can get over the presumption that women are wearing yoga pants all the time in order to show off or titillate.
I didn't say that they necessarily wanted or intended to show off, but at the very least they don't care enough about it to stop themselves from doing it. If you don't want to show off your physical appearance then don't wear tight-form fitting clothing that emphasizes your figure in public.
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Old 30th March 2019, 03:48 PM   #34
Arcade22
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Shame on anyone who thinks that this letter is real. Go back to critical thinking school. Thanks for listening to the lecture.
Yeah i think that it was pretty likely certainly a parody. The ending is what stands out above all else.
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Old 30th March 2019, 04:32 PM   #35
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Is there any evidence these sexual assaults by Catholic authorities could be linked to years of sexual repression typical of many devout adherents of various religions? That's a pet idea I've had in my mind but it's speculation of course.

Is it any worse than back in the day or other workplace sexual violence or are we just hearing a lot about it in the news.
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Old 30th March 2019, 04:39 PM   #36
Ron_Tomkins
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Depends: Is the woman in question hot?
Lets see some pictures for analytical purposes (Preferably from several angles. The more, the better)
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Old 30th March 2019, 04:45 PM   #37
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Shock that nobody has posted the video of "Catholic Schoolgirls Rule" by the Red Hot Chili Peppers.
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Old 30th March 2019, 04:54 PM   #38
mike81
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Women can wear whatever they want. They just shouldn't get mad when I notice the outline of their genitals. Yes, I like looking at female genitals and will not pretend otherwise.
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Old 30th March 2019, 05:21 PM   #39
Elagabalus
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What about moose knuckles?
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Old 30th March 2019, 05:43 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Shock that nobody has posted the video of "Catholic Schoolgirls Rule" by the Red Hot Chili Peppers.
How about "Catholic Girls" by Frank Zappa?
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