ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 4th April 2019, 08:48 AM   #201
pgwenthold
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 18,468
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Yeah, that doesn't really help her though. Basically, she's freaking out for the temptation that hypothetically could have happened. She's like 3 steps away from anything that resembles a problem. This mountain isn't even a molehill.
No, it doesn't help her at all. It makes her look like a screeching loon.

"These evil harlots are corrupting our youth?"
"Um, no, your kids didn't even notice."
__________________
"As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Chloe, Secret Life of Pets
pgwenthold is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th April 2019, 08:52 AM   #202
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 19,527
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
That's really the rub for me for this lady's prudish letter about yoga pants. She lives in a college town full of young women, her sons are just going to have to learn how to deal with seeing a bunch of hotties out and about. Hopefully they learn how to keep their baser thoughts to themselves and act like a decent person, it's an important step to becoming a mature adult.
Actually, she probably doesn't live there. It is more likely that she was visiting from her gated community on the outskirts of anywhere but South Bend.
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th April 2019, 08:55 AM   #203
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 18,748
Originally Posted by luchog View Post
And given that that's a patently ridiculous example with no real-word basis, I fail to see why it was even brought up except to score cheap Internet gotchas.

Fair point. I was just addressing the hypothetical put in front of me.
__________________
Up the River!

Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted]
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th April 2019, 08:55 AM   #204
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 21,194
I think we need to be careful about equating "unusual" and "inappropriate"

If I walk into a Denny's and see a guy wearing a Viking Costume I'm gonna give it a second glance because that's unusual, but that's nothing on it being inappropriate.
__________________
- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset
- "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal
- "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC

Last edited by JoeMorgue; 4th April 2019 at 09:15 AM.
JoeMorgue is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th April 2019, 09:08 AM   #205
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 8,880
Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
The church was on a college campus.

There is a reason why the letter writer's sons were not paying any attention to it - it's not an issue to them because it is common. As it would be to the wearers.

BTW, I am curious about your reply to my question of what joggers are supposed to wear in order to not deserve unwanted sexual attention. Are you sticking with your position that joggers dressed for jogging are responsible for any sexual attention they get?
Happy to respond, although I thought my example showed the response pretty clearly.

Joggers are wearing gear for their activity. Perfectly appropriate. One of my kids swam for the High School, and at a meet there were dozens of teens in swimsuits, and inevitably it was all hanging out. Much like bikinis on the beach. Joggers are in the gray area between being situationally appropriate and in the general view, but it's fine.

Now, the part you inexplicably took the time to snip out: a skimpy bikini is normal on the beach. Do you think this is appropriate for a church service? Or at dinner?
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th April 2019, 09:14 AM   #206
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 8,880
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I think there are two different issues here. Clothing that is thought of as revealing and/or inherently sexy, and just general formality. Most people might consider it in bad taste to wear a bikini to a church, but it would also be considered as bad manners to wear paint stained sweatpants and a ratty t-shirt. Dressing "up" is often seen as a way of communicating respect. Wearing neat and tidy clothes to a church is often seen as a show of respect, the same way that wearing a nice suit to a job interview is.

That's really the rub for me for this lady's prudish letter about yoga pants. She lives in a college town full of young women, her sons are just going to have to learn how to deal with seeing a bunch of hotties out and about. Hopefully they learn how to keep their baser thoughts to themselves and act like a decent person, it's an important step to becoming a mature adult.

I'd be willing to agree with this lady if her complaint was that yoga pants were too casual for church. Her complaining about seeing a shapely butt makes me less sympathetic.

Generally speaking, I don't think most women are so naive to think that how they present themselves in public may affect how people think about them. I don't really see any clothing, no matter how sexual, as license to act like a rude ass to a woman. There are no thought crimes, but someone who is rude to strangers (catcalling, sexual comments, whatever) is a boor.
Agreed. My take is that the OP woman saw a lineup of tasty tushys racked up in front of her and thought it left too little to the imagination, especially in a church. Kind of understandable, although she might want to get used to the whole 21st century attire thing. Guys might stare, they might not. As long as no one gets offensive, live and let live.
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th April 2019, 11:37 AM   #207
Skeptical Greg
Agave Wine Connoisseur
 
Skeptical Greg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Just past ' Resume Speed ' .
Posts: 15,747
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I think we need to be careful about equating "unusual" and "inappropriate"

If I walk into a Denny's and see a guy wearing a Viking Costume I'm gonna give it a second glance because that's unusual, but that's nothing on it being inappropriate.
Unless he's carrying a bloody severed head in one hand..
__________________
" The main problem I have with the idea of heaven, is the thought of
spending eternity with most of the people who claim to be going there. "
Skeptical Greg is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th April 2019, 11:46 AM   #208
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 8,880
Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Unless he's carrying a bloody severed head in one hand..
Kathy Griffin wears leggings now?
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th April 2019, 12:29 PM   #209
Steve
Philosopher
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,136
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Kathy Griffin wears leggings now?
Probably. But Kathy Griffin going to Denny's dressed as a viking is a little less likely.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th April 2019, 03:55 PM   #210
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 19,681
Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Do you think that half of the women on campus walking to class want to be hit on by strangers?

Oh for Pete's sake. Why do you have to turn "attention" to "hit on by strangers".



If you are going to talk about when women ought to have to put up with being hit on by strangers, that's an interesting topic, but it isn't what my post was about.

As a standalone post, I agree with you, and in fact I think I made that reasonably clear even before you made the post.
Meadmaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th April 2019, 04:01 AM   #211
Arcade22
Philosopher
 
Arcade22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 5,689
Quote:
It’s Possible Leggings Are the Future. Deal With It.

The truth is, it’s possible leggings may be simply standing in for those other issues. One of the great gotchas of fashion is that what may appear superficial or unimportant (leggings!) is, in fact, representative of a more complicated, harder to express reality (identity). This is what gives clothes their power.

As a result, what the leggings uproar may have exposed is not so much anyone’s physique per se, but rather a cultural fault line that runs through generations. This historical pattern includes miniskirts and jeans, Mary Quant and James Dean, and garments that seemed egregious and inexplicable to what is generally referred to as the establishment but play a key and highly visual role in upending norms to make way for the next.

Sure, it’s possible that is overstating the matter. It’s possible they are just stretchy footless tights that are easy to wear.

But judging by Lululemon’s recent results, which saw net revenue rise 21 percent in the third quarter of 2018, and the fact that part of Levi’s much-heralded IPO was attributed to the “stretch” now included in jeans to cater to the leggings market, this “popular clothing choice” (as The Observer labeled them) is not going away any time soon. All this suggests that the Notre Dame uproar may not be a fluke, but a harbinger.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/01/f...ntroversy.html

I can't say I'm disappointed in how the future is turning out. Now we only have to make sure to marginalize the self-righteous "no fun allowed" moralists trying to hold back mankind's glorious development, as well as trying to encourage males to also dress in an equally sexy manner...
__________________
We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr
Arcade22 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th April 2019, 05:55 AM   #212
Mike!
Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it!
 
Mike!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not!
Posts: 32,951
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Probably. But Kathy Griffin going to Denny's dressed as a viking is a little less likely.
I'd bet if someone told her it'd piss republicans off, she'd do it in a heartbeat.
__________________
"Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes...
Because then it won't really matter, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes."
Mike! is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th April 2019, 07:20 AM   #213
qayak
Penultimate Amazing
 
qayak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,567
Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Do you think that half of the women on campus walking to class want to be hit on by strangers?
I think that it is a sad state that less than 100% of women on a university campus do not interact with fellow students while walking to class. Universities are supposed to be the most social, and interactive, places in society and yet snowflakes make them out to be warzones where poor little girls get PTSD because some guy wished them a good day.
__________________
"How long you live, how high you fly
The smiles you'll give, and tears you'll cry
And all you touch, and all you see
Is all your life will ever be."
qayak is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th April 2019, 07:34 AM   #214
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 18,748
Originally Posted by qayak View Post
I think that it is a sad state that less than 100% of women on a university campus do not interact with fellow students while walking to class. Universities are supposed to be the most social, and interactive, places in society and yet snowflakes make them out to be warzones where poor little girls get PTSD because some guy wished them a good day.

I'm a fairly sociable person, but if you talk to me without good reason before about ten in the morning, you'll get bugger all from me.

Some of the people, some of the time don't want social interaction. They're just getting on with life. Even at university.
__________________
Up the River!

Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted]
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th April 2019, 07:35 AM   #215
isissxn
Rough Around the Edges
 
isissxn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Deep Storage
Posts: 6,323
I just hate talking to people if it isn't necessary. I hear about places like China where it's considered unthinkable to interrupt strangers for small talk, and I get deeply envious. When I go to work, it's because I have to get money. When I got to the store, it's because I need ****. When I go to class, it is to learn. There is literally no point ever that I want a conversation with a rando, and I've gotten to the point where I'm going to just say that, precisely that, to men and women alike if they speak to me needlessly.

If a fire started right in front of us, or a guy pulled off his clothes and started fiddling on the subway, or you're sitting next to me and our plane might go down - okay, I will talk to you. If you need directions or genuine help of some kind, okay, I will try to see if I can help you. But if you're just chatty? **** off! Think I'm a jerk? Don't care!

Last edited by isissxn; 5th April 2019 at 08:26 AM.
isissxn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th April 2019, 07:50 AM   #216
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 8,880
Originally Posted by qayak View Post
I think that it is a sad state that less than 100% of women on a university campus do not interact with fellow students while walking to class. Universities are supposed to be the most social, and interactive, places in society and yet snowflakes make them out to be warzones where poor little girls get PTSD because some guy wished them a good day.
Tbf, the States have this problem everywhere, and campuses are one of the more socially approachable places. I once heard that being a woman on an American street is like being surrounded by NFL linemen, most of whom will very much will try to **** you. I usually have to get a few words in before they will realize I'm not hitting on them and they open up.
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th April 2019, 07:51 AM   #217
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 21,194
Okay so the real question... what about MAGA leggings?

*I'm actually scared to Google that because I'm sure somebody actually makes them*
__________________
- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset
- "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal
- "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC
JoeMorgue is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th April 2019, 07:57 AM   #218
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 8,880
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Okay so the real question... what about MAGA leggings?

*I'm actually scared to Google that because I'm sure somebody actually makes them*
Means you are proud take it in the rear?
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th April 2019, 08:02 AM   #219
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 44,875
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Okay so the real question... what about MAGA leggings?

*I'm actually scared to Google that because I'm sure somebody actually makes them*
Of course someone does. How could you ever doubt it? And why would you be scared of it?
https://www.aafnation.com/products/maga-leggings

Enjoy!
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th April 2019, 08:12 AM   #220
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 19,527
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Of course someone does. How could you ever doubt it? And why would you be scared of it?
https://www.aafnation.com/products/maga-leggings

Enjoy!
I love people selling MAGA gear that isn't Trump campaign gear. Siphon that money away from Donnie Con as quickly as possible!
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th April 2019, 08:59 AM   #221
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 44,875
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I love people selling MAGA gear that isn't Trump campaign gear. Siphon that money away from Donnie Con as quickly as possible!
Trump trademarked "Make America Great Again". It's entirely possible this stuff is licensed, even if it isn't from the campaign.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th April 2019, 09:12 AM   #222
Gilbert Syndrome
Philosopher
 
Gilbert Syndrome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Liverpool, UK
Posts: 6,396
Do leggings make women just too arousing for Catholic men (and women) to handle?

They do when I wear them.
__________________
Generic proclamation of positivity:

Scouse saying - Go 'ed, is right, nice one, boss, well in, sound, belter, made up.

Usage: 'Go 'ed, lad, get us an ale in, nice one.'
Gilbert Syndrome is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th April 2019, 12:56 PM   #223
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 19,681
Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
Do leggings make women just too arousing for Catholic men (and women) to handle?

They do when I wear them.
Wins thread.
Meadmaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th April 2019, 09:26 PM   #224
xjx388
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,528
I’ve seen arguments on this forum that merely wearing a MAGA hat warrants being called out and even punched because some people associate it with white supremacy or something -irrespective of what the wearer’s views might actually be.

So if it can be said that the MAGA teen or whatever deserves whatever **** comes their way, please explain how that’s not victim blaming.

MAGA hat = Hott clothes, just to make it clear.
__________________
Hello.
xjx388 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th April 2019, 09:31 PM   #225
Steve
Philosopher
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,136
Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I’ve seen arguments on this forum that merely wearing a MAGA hat warrants being called out and even punched because some people associate it with white supremacy or something -irrespective of what the wearer’s views might actually be.

So if it can be said that the MAGA teen or whatever deserves whatever **** comes their way, please explain how that’s not victim blaming.

MAGA hat = Hott clothes , just to make it clear.
Sorry, you are wrong. A MAGA hat definitely does not equal hot clothes!
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th April 2019, 10:35 PM   #226
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 64,690
Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
I just hate talking to people if it isn't necessary. I hear about places like China where it's considered unthinkable to interrupt strangers for small talk, and I get deeply envious. When I go to work, it's because I have to get money. When I got to the store, it's because I need ****. When I go to class, it is to learn. There is literally no point ever that I want a conversation with a rando, and I've gotten to the point where I'm going to just say that, precisely that, to men and women alike if they speak to me needlessly.

If a fire started right in front of us, or a guy pulled off his clothes and started fiddling on the subway, or you're sitting next to me and our plane might go down - okay, I will talk to you. If you need directions or genuine help of some kind, okay, I will try to see if I can help you. But if you're just chatty? **** off! Think I'm a jerk? Don't care!
At last, someone else understands!

I would be very happy indeed if no stranger ever talked to me for any unnecessary reason. And I'm not even an attractive young woman. In fact, I'm none of those things. And people still randomly try and talk to me! Go away!
__________________
Self-described nerd. Pronouns: He/Him

My mom told me she tries never to make fun of people for not knowing something.
- Randall Munroe
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th April 2019, 10:43 PM   #227
dann
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,125
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Sorry, you are wrong. A MAGA hat definitely does not equal hot clothes!

It's funny how the defenders of MAGA hats in this forum always try to reduce them to mere items of clothing even though what they like about them is the message: Make America Great Again by handing over every last bit of wealth that the country contains to the billionaire class while at the same time pretending that it's about white versus blacks and native borns versus foreigners. Of course, the latter, racism and nationalism, is what most MAGA hat wearers imagine that MAGA is about.
They will probably also claim that a placard carried at a rally is just a piece of cardboard and The Turner Diaries is just a science fiction novel.
Usually, leggings are just that: leggings. But they come in alt-right versions, too, and at that point they stop being just leggings. They are leggings with a political message.
I would never claim that my Che Guevara T-shirts are just T-shirts. And in some contexts I won't wear them.


ETA: "merely wearing a MAGA hat" is different from merely wearing a hat. It's not merely; it's a political message. And the MAGA hat wearers usually know it. In this case, they're just pretending to be ignorant.
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 7th April 2019 at 10:51 PM.
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th April 2019, 11:22 PM   #228
Roboramma
Penultimate Amazing
 
Roboramma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 13,187
Originally Posted by dann View Post

ETA: "merely wearing a MAGA hat" is different from merely wearing a hat. It's not merely; it's a political message. And the MAGA hat wearers usually know it. In this case, they're just pretending to be ignorant.
I think you missed the point. You are assuming a particular message from a MAGA hat, which may be different from the message intended by it's wearer. Similarly someone might assume a particular message from the wearer of leggings, which might be different from the message intended by it's wearer.
__________________
"... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together."
Isaac Asimov
Roboramma is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th April 2019, 11:30 PM   #229
MetalPig
Illuminator
 
MetalPig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: 22, Acacia Avenue
Posts: 3,282
Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
I just hate talking to people if it isn't necessary. I hear about places like China where it's considered unthinkable to interrupt strangers for small talk, and I get deeply envious. When I go to work, it's because I have to get money. When I got to the store, it's because I need ****. When I go to class, it is to learn. There is literally no point ever that I want a conversation with a rando, and I've gotten to the point where I'm going to just say that, precisely that, to men and women alike if they speak to me needlessly.
I would love to have a drink and stare at a candle with you.
__________________
Just drive.
MetalPig is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2019, 06:12 AM   #230
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 16,713
Today it's mostly sunny and mild here in Germany, after a longer spell with umcomfortable (not really cold, but far from warm) temperatures, I am off from work early, and have been doing an informal survey of what pants women wear to greet spring. First in the main shopping street of the blue collar city where I work (a significantly elevated proportion of people with migrant roots, often Turkish), and now in a street cafe in my more conservative little home town.

I see VERY few leggins! Young ladies mostly sport skin-tight pants, usually blue jeans, but also other colors and fabrics. The middle agers and the rest of the young ones wear more relaxed cuts. I see the occasional leggings on three types of women:
Middle aged women who otherwise wear other comfortable clothes
Muslimas who wear them under dresses, skirts or hijabs
People working out on their bicycles, skates or jogging shoes.

I'd say that very nearly 100% of leggings are worn (here and now) for being comfortable, nearly 0% to show off body parts
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2019, 07:28 AM   #231
isissxn
Rough Around the Edges
 
isissxn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Deep Storage
Posts: 6,323
Originally Posted by MetalPig View Post
I would love to have a drink and stare at a candle with you.
isissxn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2019, 08:42 AM   #232
dann
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,125
Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
I think you missed the point. You are assuming a particular message from a MAGA hat, which may be different from the message intended by it's wearer.

No, I'm not! And I made it very obvious in one of the parts of my post that you didn't quote:

Originally Posted by dann View Post
It's funny how the defenders of MAGA hats in this forum always try to reduce them to mere items of clothing even though what they like about them is the message: Make America Great Again by handing over every last bit of wealth that the country contains to the billionaire class while at the same time pretending that it's about white versus blacks and native borns versus foreigners. Of course, the latter, racism and nationalism, is what most MAGA hat wearers imagine that MAGA is about.

I won't deny that a few MAGA hat wearers may think that it means, "Make America Great Again by recycling" or "Make America Great Again by treating brown-skinned foreigners with respect," but at this point in time I think that most people know that this is not how it's intended by the guys who came up with the slogan or by the majority of MAGA hat wearers.

Quote:
Similarly someone might assume a particular message from the wearer of leggings, which might be different from the message intended by it's wearer.

Yes, somebody may think that the wearer of Pepe-the-Frog leggings is a big fan of Kermit, but do you actually believe that most wearers of that particular version think so?

(One of my (Afro-)Cuban friends was very fond of a scarf a German tourist had given him until I told him that he was wearing the Confederate flag. He wasn't familiar with the symbol. Of course, it's possible that the German guy didn't know about it, but I tend to think that he was an ******* who enjoyed the 'joke' of having a black descendant of slaves wear the symbol of slaveowners.)

ETA: The German tourist may also have have been extremely fond of historical statues and lamented tearing them down in the good old Confederacy, but ...
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 8th April 2019 at 08:52 AM.
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2019, 10:06 AM   #233
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 20,740
Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
I just hate talking to people if it isn't necessary. I hear about places like China where it's considered unthinkable to interrupt strangers for small talk, and I get deeply envious. When I go to work, it's because I have to get money. When I got to the store, it's because I need ****. When I go to class, it is to learn. There is literally no point ever that I want a conversation with a rando, and I've gotten to the point where I'm going to just say that, precisely that, to men and women alike if they speak to me needlessly.

If a fire started right in front of us, or a guy pulled off his clothes and started fiddling on the subway, or you're sitting next to me and our plane might go down - okay, I will talk to you. If you need directions or genuine help of some kind, okay, I will try to see if I can help you. But if you're just chatty? **** off! Think I'm a jerk? Don't care!
You might live living in the UK. When we did, I mostly embraced their quiet reserved nature, but occasionally I would randomly greet people to freak them out. It seems like the exact opposite of the American South, where friendly greetings are more of a staple.

carlitos - "HI!"
British dude - [looks up from feet, nods awkwardly]
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2019, 10:11 AM   #234
isissxn
Rough Around the Edges
 
isissxn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Deep Storage
Posts: 6,323
Whoa, which thread is this.

I was just in a MAGA hat thread, then I popped into this thread and... MAGA hats.

Glitch
isissxn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2019, 10:13 AM   #235
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 21,194
Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
Whoa, which thread is this.

I was just in a MAGA hat thread, then I popped into this thread and... MAGA hats.

Glitch
It's all MAGA Hats. The MAGA Hat is the alpha and the omega. In the beginning there was... the MAGA Hat.
__________________
- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset
- "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal
- "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC
JoeMorgue is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2019, 10:15 AM   #236
isissxn
Rough Around the Edges
 
isissxn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Deep Storage
Posts: 6,323
Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
You might live living in the UK. When we did, I mostly embraced their quiet reserved nature, but occasionally I would randomly greet people to freak them out. It seems like the exact opposite of the American South, where friendly greetings are more of a staple.

carlitos - "HI!"
British dude - [looks up from feet, nods awkwardly]
Hahaha, I watched a thing on Netflix once called "Very British Problems," and the way those talking heads spoke about small talk was PERFECT. It was like my own soul gained a posh accent and the ability to articulate its feelings for a short time. One guy described getting off a train or something at the wrong stop so that he wouldn't have to talk to someone talkative. I have literally done that. More than once. Except it was buses too.

I don't think Britain would have me though, lol.

Last edited by isissxn; 8th April 2019 at 10:17 AM.
isissxn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2019, 10:17 AM   #237
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 8,880
In the name of the Fuehrer,

And of the Right,

And of the Master Race,

MAGAmen.
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2019, 10:21 AM   #238
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 19,527
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
In the name of the Fuehrer,

And of the Right,

And of the Master Race,

MAGAmen.
Wrong thread. This one is about hot Catholic chicks in tights and how to chat them up.
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2019, 10:25 AM   #239
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 52,643
Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
Hahaha, I watched a thing on Netflix once called "Very British Problems," and the way those talking heads spoke about small talk was PERFECT. It was like my own soul gained a posh accent and the ability to articulate its feelings for a short time. One guy described getting off a train or something at the wrong stop so that he wouldn't have to talk to someone talkative. I have literally done that. More than once. Except it was buses too.

I don't think Britain would have me though, lol.
I've heard Finland is even more disinclined to small talk with strangers. There's a meme of a bus stop with ten people at it and they're all standing eight feet apart not looking at it each other. Only one actually fits at the stop itself. Supposedly that's typical Finland.
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th April 2019, 10:27 AM   #240
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 8,880
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Wrong thread. This one is about hot Catholic chicks in tights and how to chat them up.
My bad.

In the name of your father issues,
And of your shame,
And of your anything-goes-but-intercourse attitude,
So how you doin?
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:51 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.