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Old 2nd April 2019, 08:44 AM   #41
Thermal
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
That story differs from the other one, in that it doesn't mention that the alleged victim reached for the assailant's hat first, while the other one doesn't mention the flipping off. I wouldn't put too much stock in either version yet.
Oh, come on, man! We have one guy in a sequined top hat criticizing criminal headwear, and we have genune freaking MAGA pirates on the loose! It's like God has smiled down and said 'Thermal, you have been a good boy. I bequeath unto you news stories worthy of your intellectual caliber'
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Old 2nd April 2019, 08:44 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
My money is on a common machete. Cheap, widely available, effective at maiming strangers, and often come with some sort of cheapy sheath
Me too.

That our the wall hanger every neckband has that they think is bad ass.
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Old 2nd April 2019, 08:45 AM   #43
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Not Florida? How odd!
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Old 2nd April 2019, 08:46 AM   #44
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We have a member named "arthwollipot" who sometimes carries a sword in public.
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Old 2nd April 2019, 08:48 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by The Greater Fool View Post
I completely agree. There is no way the sword could have been drawn, thus no attack could have happened. FAKE!

Or alternately...

I completely agree. All those videos and articles claiming swords strapped to backs cannot be drawn easily or quickly are wrong. FAKE!
Could have been strapped horizontally above his butt. If he did it wrong it could be mid back with a decent draw. For something the size of a machete this could be concealed and drawn quickly.

And remember knives and swords scare the **** out of a lot of people even when not being pointed at them. The victim is going to lose details.
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Old 2nd April 2019, 08:50 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
We have a member named "arthwollipot" who sometimes carries a sword in public.
I'll bet he doesn't carry it on his back under a leather jacket. This doesn't sound like an sca person, although goodness knows we have our share of lunatics.

This story is very weird. Unfortunately, I can't look into it much until I get home.
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Old 2nd April 2019, 08:50 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
We have a member named "arthwollipot" who sometimes carries a sword in public.
Which is a legal thing to do in many places.

Personally I feel anything that can't be easily carried on a belt loop is a bit much, but I support the concept of caring a knife even a large one.
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Old 2nd April 2019, 08:50 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
We have a member named "arthwollipot" who sometimes carries a sword in public.
'Strayan, tho. Unreliable. You say it's winter, they'll say it's summer. You say it's day, they'll say it's night. Christ, if you say it's today, the bastards will say it's tomorrow.
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Old 2nd April 2019, 08:50 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Not to defend this attacker, but supposedly forcibly pulling someone's hijab off of their head would constitute an assault and a hate crime. (There have been a number of such incidents reported, some of which have turned out to be false reports, but it is usually described as an assault and a hate crime.)

So, if forcibly removing a person's head covering is an assault and potentially a hate crime, then the same is true if you remove someone's hat.

Again, I say this not to defend the assailant, but to point out the double standard.
Personally, I think it's a reasonable standard: Mess with a hat or hijab, you're the aggressor.

On the other hand, I also think the "fighting words" standard is also reasonable. Hanging out on the street hurling abuse at people until someone loses their temper? Maybe that's on you.
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Old 2nd April 2019, 08:54 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Personally, I think it's a reasonable standard: Mess with a hat or hijab, you're the aggressor.
Sure, it's assault, although grabbing headgear is not deadly force, and so you can't legally respond with deadly force.
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Old 2nd April 2019, 08:55 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Query to 'Friscans: y'all have CCW n this area? If th MAGAninja had a legit CCW, would a bladed weapon fall into the category of concealed dangerous weapon, although we usually think of a gun in those terms?
I'm not familiar with California laws, but in most states, knives with a blade over a certain lengTh (usually three or four inches, IIRC) are covered under concealed weapons laws.
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Old 2nd April 2019, 08:56 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Sure, it's assault, although grabbing headgear is not deadly force, and so you can't legally respond with deadly force.
Assault is to put one in fear of imminent danger/injury. In my State, this standard can be met without physical contact at all.
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Old 2nd April 2019, 08:56 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
On the other hand, I also think the "fighting words" standard is also reasonable. Hanging out on the street hurling abuse at people until someone loses their temper? Maybe that's on you.
I think it's safe to go out on a limb that someone prowling the streets with a sword hurling slurs at strangers would not restrain themselves from making violent threats. Even in the most yee-haw parts of the country with strong self-defense laws, someone acting aggressively and making threats would have a duty to retreat, given that utterances of such threats would undermine the "lawfully allowed" portion of those laws.

Even in "Stand Your Ground" country, I'd hate to have to explain to a jury how a fight I picked was a situation where I could lawfully use self-defense without first exhausting all other options. Juries aren't robots, they might just decide to stick it to you for being a deliberate a-hole.
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Old 2nd April 2019, 09:06 AM   #54
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Encourage the hats. Hats left at crime scenes have hair and other DNA samples.

Makes it easier to spot the problem at the start also.
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Old 2nd April 2019, 09:22 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Query to 'Friscans: y'all have CCW n this area? If th MAGAninja had a legit CCW, would a bladed weapon fall into the category of concealed dangerous weapon, although we usually think of a gun in those terms?
At this stage, S. F. county does not issue concealed carry licenses to anyone outside of retired LEO's or politicos.

There is no provision under state law that allows the carry of a concealed edged weapon (outside of small folders and open carry of knives while engaged in fishing or hunting) and there's no such animal as a concealed blade license.
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Old 2nd April 2019, 09:31 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
At this stage, S. F. county does not issue concealed carry licenses to anyone outside of retired LEO's or politicos.

There is no provision under state law that allows the carry of a concealed edged weapon (outside of small folders and open carry of knives while engaged in fishing or hunting) and there's no such animal as a concealed blade license.
Thanks for clarifying, that's interesting. In NJ, no concealed carry of anything in practice, and knives were for a long time unrestricted as long as they were exposed and in a sheath. There was dispute for a while about whether a folder with a belt clip constituted a 'sheath'. Currently, you have to present a 'legally justifiable purpose' for carrying a knife, which most people switch to multitools to work around. You see a lot of Leatherman knives used in crimes nowadays.
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Old 2nd April 2019, 09:43 AM   #57
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The witness who initially described the MAGA-man as walking around with a sword and hurling homophobic epithets said police asked him about someone "dressed as a pirate" but reported that it did not look to him like the guy with the MAGA hat was "dressed as" anything. And I'm not (yet) aware of any other witnesses confirming such a costume, or indeed anyone besides that initial witness even mentioning the notion outside the context of a question he was asked by police. I suspect perhaps the question was used by police to gauge whether the person that one person they were interviewing was a genuine witness, or just willing to agree to whatever description the police asked him about.
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Old 2nd April 2019, 09:47 AM   #58
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Chris Ledoux wrote about this a long time ago.


Well I was sittin' in a coffee shop
Just havin' a cup to pass the time
Swapin' rodeo stories with this old cowboy friend of mine
When some motorcycle riders started snickerin' in the back

Started pokin' fun at my friend's hat
One ol' boy said "Hey Tex where'd you park your horse?"
My friend just pulled his hat down low but they couldn't be ignored
One husky fella said "I think I'll rip that hat right off your head."
That's when my friend turned around and this is what he said

You'll ride a black tornado 'cross the western sky
Rope an ol blue norter and milk it till it's dry
Bulldog the Mississippi, pin it's ears down flat
Long before you take this MAGA hat



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqDhE01jV_g
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Old 2nd April 2019, 09:50 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The witness who initially described the MAGA-man as walking around with a sword and hurling homophobic epithets said police asked him about someone "dressed as a pirate" but reported that it did not look to him like the guy with the MAGA hat was "dressed as" anything. And I'm not (yet) aware of any other witnesses confirming such a costume, or indeed anyone besides that initial witness even mentioning the notion outside the context of a question he was asked by police. I suspect perhaps the question was used by police to gauge whether the person that one person they were interviewing was a genuine witness, or just willing to agree to whatever description the police asked him about.
Post #33. The rink guy with flamboyant headgear, Miles, describes the man specifically as 'dressed like a pirate'.
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Old 2nd April 2019, 09:55 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Post #33. The rink guy with flamboyant headgear, Miles, describes the man specifically as 'dressed like a pirate'.
Possibly confusing editing. He said a guy dressed as a pirate had been around for a while making slurs. It doesn't directly say he saw the attack. Perhaps the MAGAman was pirate-lite on this occasion?
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Old 2nd April 2019, 10:00 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by The Greater Fool View Post
Possibly confusing editing. He said a guy dressed as a pirate had been around for a while making slurs. It doesn't directly say he saw the attack. Perhaps the MAGAman was pirate-lite on this occasion?
He also said the attacking MAGA pirate was wearing a vest. Tough read.

Based on the various witnesses...ahem...unique attire, I wonder if people dressed like pirates are that unusual there? Maybe this homophobic MAGA pirate was confused with another homophobic MAGA pirate, who was very peaceful?

Seriously, 2019 is turning out to be News Christmas
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Old 2nd April 2019, 10:09 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Not Florida? How odd!
Finally slam dunk proof it is an april fools prank
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Old 2nd April 2019, 10:43 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I'd hate to have to explain to a jury how a fight I picked was a situation where I could lawfully use self-defense without first exhausting all other options.
See: Florida
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Old 2nd April 2019, 10:55 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Whip View Post
See: Florida
It's harder when your victim survives to testify
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Old 2nd April 2019, 01:16 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
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I AGREE
Unless they cleaned that up later I can't believe the medics left their scissors there with all the blood around.
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Old 2nd April 2019, 01:25 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Considering the date around which this was reported, I think I'll refrain from commenting further.

Hans
March 31st, 2019?
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Old 3rd April 2019, 12:26 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Based on the various witnesses...ahem...unique attire, I wonder if people dressed like pirates are that unusual there?
It might've been some kind of costume party. Either an event at the skating rink, or somewhere close by so a lot of attendees were in that area at the same time.
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Old 3rd April 2019, 12:50 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by pharphis View Post
uh oh.

Of course it's absurd to pretend that one's political apparel is somehow worse than one's religious apparel (this goes for more than Islamic clothes, btw). Supporting a presidency does not automatically mean you are hateful. I know, Trump is hitler and all that but again people have different reasons and priorities for their beliefs. I don't assume all Muslims HATE gay people, for example, even though almost all of them believe it is a sin and a large proportion of the world's muslim population believes it should be punishable by death.
No, it's not absurd. A hate symbol isn't comparable with a religious head-apparell.
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Old 3rd April 2019, 04:17 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
No, it's not absurd. A hate symbol isn't comparable with a religious head-apparell.
How ridiculous. Knocking a hijab off someone's head is sometimes considered a hate crime because religion is a protected class in this country, where as political affiliation is not. It has nothing to do with MAGA being a "hate symbol".

Knocking off someone's MAGA hat is a crime in the same way that knocking off someone's yankee hat in Boston is a crime. neither are hate crimes for the obvious reason that being pro-Trump or pro-Yankees is not a protected class, despite whatever animus may exist to motivate the attack.

"punching Nazis is ok" is not a legal theory with any legitimacy in the US.
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Old 3rd April 2019, 05:26 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
How ridiculous. Knocking a hijab off someone's head is sometimes considered a hate crime because religion is a protected class in this country, where as political affiliation is not. It has nothing to do with MAGA being a "hate symbol".

Knocking off someone's MAGA hat is a crime in the same way that knocking off someone's yankee hat in Boston is a crime. neither are hate crimes for the obvious reason that being pro-Trump or pro-Yankees is not a protected class, despite whatever animus may exist to motivate the attack.

"punching Nazis is ok" is not a legal theory with any legitimacy in the US.
The end result is the same. A MAGA-hat isn't comparable with a hijab.

And nobody punched this potential Nazi. He was the aggressor.
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Old 3rd April 2019, 05:29 AM   #71
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I must admit that this story sent up the same skeptical vibes in me that the Smollett story and the Covington Catholic story sent up.

The stories, in each case, describe someone behaving very, very, oddly, but in a way that fits a caricature very well. In other words, I wouldn't expect Catholic schoolkids to disrupt Native American ceremonies, but I would expect Trump haters to accuse them of doing so. I wouldn't expect MAGA hat wearers to assault random black people, but I would expect Trump haters to think that is normal. In this case, I wouldn't expect a MAGA hat wearer to wander the streets yelling homophobic slurs and carrying a sword, but I can see where a Trump hater might see nothing incongruous about it. Whenever I see any variation of "One of those rotten awful people does exactly what we think those rotten awful people would do, even though they hardly ever actually do that", it makes me wonder.

A huge difference in this case, though, is that we have a serious injury associated. Hoaxers and people with a grudge don't generally go so far as to actually cause wounds to make their point. Therefore, the default assumption would be that this sword wielding homophobic MAGA wearer actually exists, and really did assault the victim.

Nevertheless, I'm still suspicious that the MagaNinja actually grabbed a weapon, and went out looking for a fight.

I'm picturing, instead, some crazy dude who goes out wandering the streets talking to himself, occasionally yelling at passersby. He's also fearful of assault, because of past experience, so he carries a "sword", which I agree is probably a machete or something similar. My guess is that the "victim" was actually quite aggressive toward our mystery MAGA man, and the guy pulled the sword/machete, took a swipe at the attacker, and ran away.


Of course this is all speculation based on fragmentary reports. Perhaps more information will be coming forward, or perhaps we'll never know.
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Old 3rd April 2019, 05:34 AM   #72
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Maybe the victim thought the MAGA-pirate was in distress somehow and wanted to lend him a hand?
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Old 3rd April 2019, 05:37 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Sounds like self defense. Reaching for another person's head during an argument could look like the start of battery.
A move that any reasonable person would respond to with lethal force.
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Old 3rd April 2019, 05:40 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I must admit that this story sent up the same skeptical vibes in me that the Smollett story and the Covington Catholic story sent up.

The stories, in each case, describe someone behaving very, very, oddly, but in a way that fits a caricature very well. In other words, I wouldn't expect Catholic schoolkids to disrupt Native American ceremonies, but I would expect Trump haters to accuse them of doing so. I wouldn't expect MAGA hat wearers to assault random black people, but I would expect Trump haters to think that is normal. In this case, I wouldn't expect a MAGA hat wearer to wander the streets yelling homophobic slurs and carrying a sword, but I can see where a Trump hater might see nothing incongruous about it. Whenever I see any variation of "One of those rotten awful people does exactly what we think those rotten awful people would do, even though they hardly ever actually do that", it makes me wonder.

A huge difference in this case, though, is that we have a serious injury associated. Hoaxers and people with a grudge don't generally go so far as to actually cause wounds to make their point. Therefore, the default assumption would be that this sword wielding homophobic MAGA wearer actually exists, and really did assault the victim.

Nevertheless, I'm still suspicious that the MagaNinja actually grabbed a weapon, and went out looking for a fight.

I'm picturing, instead, some crazy dude who goes out wandering the streets talking to himself, occasionally yelling at passersby. He's also fearful of assault, because of past experience, so he carries a "sword", which I agree is probably a machete or something similar. My guess is that the "victim" was actually quite aggressive toward our mystery MAGA man, and the guy pulled the sword/machete, took a swipe at the attacker, and ran away.


Of course this is all speculation based on fragmentary reports. Perhaps more information will be coming forward, or perhaps we'll never know.
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Old 3rd April 2019, 05:46 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I must admit that this story sent up the same skeptical vibes in me that the Smollett story and the Covington Catholic story sent up.

The stories, in each case, describe someone behaving very, very, oddly, but in a way that fits a caricature very well. In other words, I wouldn't expect Catholic schoolkids to disrupt Native American ceremonies, but I would expect Trump haters to accuse them of doing so. I wouldn't expect MAGA hat wearers to assault random black people, but I would expect Trump haters to think that is normal. In this case, I wouldn't expect a MAGA hat wearer to wander the streets yelling homophobic slurs and carrying a sword, but I can see where a Trump hater might see nothing incongruous about it. Whenever I see any variation of "One of those rotten awful people does exactly what we think those rotten awful people would do, even though they hardly ever actually do that", it makes me wonder.

A huge difference in this case, though, is that we have a serious injury associated. Hoaxers and people with a grudge don't generally go so far as to actually cause wounds to make their point. Therefore, the default assumption would be that this sword wielding homophobic MAGA wearer actually exists, and really did assault the victim.

Nevertheless, I'm still suspicious that the MagaNinja actually grabbed a weapon, and went out looking for a fight.

I'm picturing, instead, some crazy dude who goes out wandering the streets talking to himself, occasionally yelling at passersby. He's also fearful of assault, because of past experience, so he carries a "sword", which I agree is probably a machete or something similar. My guess is that the "victim" was actually quite aggressive toward our mystery MAGA man, and the guy pulled the sword/machete, took a swipe at the attacker, and ran away.


Of course this is all speculation based on fragmentary reports. Perhaps more information will be coming forward, or perhaps we'll never know.
Ah, so he was actually yelling racial slurs to himself when the bad man who was likely (based on nothing) really aggressive tried to knock his hat off. Yep, totally not blaming the victim.

: pukes:
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Old 3rd April 2019, 06:04 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
It might've been some kind of costume party. Either an event at the skating rink, or somewhere close by so a lot of attendees were in that area at the same time.
Well it is San Francisco, you don't need an event to find someone dressed like a pirate, it might just be thursday night.*

Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I'm picturing, instead, some crazy dude who goes out wandering the streets talking to himself, occasionally yelling at passersby. He's also fearful of assault, because of past experience, so he carries a "sword", which I agree is probably a machete or something similar.
Well it is San Francisco, some crazy dude wandering the streets and yelling at passerbies is to be expected.

*Assuming someone might mistake a goth for a pirate.

Also, the report is that the victim did try and grab the dudes hate, sure not worthy of a stabbing but is a bit more aggressive than most folks would be.


Seriously though, have any of you been to SF? This wasn't a particularly bad neighbor hood but it is a short walk from the Tenderloin and SOMA. This was almost certainly a crazy, drug addicted, homeless man who may also be homophobic or just spout hateful vitriol at everyone.

Last edited by ahhell; 3rd April 2019 at 06:11 AM.
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Old 3rd April 2019, 06:38 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
The end result is the same. A MAGA-hat isn't comparable with a hijab.
Magaism, the worship of the Godking Individual One certainly is a religion. This has been argued in court after all.
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Old 3rd April 2019, 06:41 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Magaism, the worship of the Godking Individual One certainly is a religion. This has been argued in court after all.
Has it?
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Old 3rd April 2019, 06:41 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I must admit that this story sent up the same skeptical vibes in me that the Smollett story and the Covington Catholic story sent up.

The stories, in each case, describe someone behaving very, very, oddly, but in a way that fits a caricature very well. In other words, I wouldn't expect Catholic schoolkids to disrupt Native American ceremonies, but I would expect Trump haters to accuse them of doing so. I wouldn't expect MAGA hat wearers to assault random black people, but I would expect Trump haters to think that is normal. In this case, I wouldn't expect a MAGA hat wearer to wander the streets yelling homophobic slurs and carrying a sword, but I can see where a Trump hater might see nothing incongruous about it. Whenever I see any variation of "One of those rotten awful people does exactly what we think those rotten awful people would do, even though they hardly ever actually do that", it makes me wonder.

A huge difference in this case, though, is that we have a serious injury associated. Hoaxers and people with a grudge don't generally go so far as to actually cause wounds to make their point. Therefore, the default assumption would be that this sword wielding homophobic MAGA wearer actually exists, and really did assault the victim.

Nevertheless, I'm still suspicious that the MagaNinja actually grabbed a weapon, and went out looking for a fight.
Exactly he was just a guy using his free speech rights, like when the guy stabbed two men to death for "defending" a muslim woman he was lecturing to go back to her country on the train. Totally misreported there about a good upstanding right wing person simply defending themselves against anti free speech oppression.

https://nypost.com/2019/02/19/cops-p...as-hate-crime/

More and more fake hate crimes.
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Old 3rd April 2019, 06:43 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Has it?
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nat...209868614.html


The judge didn't accept Magaism as a real religion but it really is only a matter of time.
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