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Old 8th April 2019, 09:44 AM   #1
JoeMorgue
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Sexual inexperience described as a national public health concern in Japan

//Mods: I split the difference on putting it here or up in the medical subforum. Move as needed.//

CNN: 1 in 4 Japanese Adults in their 20s and 30s is a virgin.

Quote:
Hong Kong (CNN) Japanese adults have their first heterosexual sexual experiences later than their counterparts in the United States and the UK, according to a new study.

Public health experts at the University of Tokyo found that sexual inexperience was on the rise in the country, with the percentage of women aged 18 to 39 who'd never had sex rising to 24.6% in 2015 from 21.7% in 1992.
The change was greater for men of the same age, with 25.8% virgins in 2015, up from 20% in 1992.

"Sexual inexperience has become a national concern in Japan, but previous reports did not examine the trend across different age groups and socioeconomic backgrounds," said Peter Ueda, a public health researcher at the University of Tokyo and an author of the study, published Monday.
Full Article: https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/08/healt...ntl/index.html
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Old 8th April 2019, 10:16 AM   #2
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Well, actually: In their late teens about 75% are still virgins, in their late 30s 8-9%.


ETA: I blame manga!
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Old 8th April 2019, 10:33 AM   #3
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Maybe it's because when the opportunity comes, the participants are expecting either tentacles or large pixels.
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Old 8th April 2019, 10:39 AM   #4
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I would bet that if Godzilla was marching on Tokyo, then the amount of sexual inexperience would diminish quite quickly.

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Old 8th April 2019, 10:44 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
I would bet that if Godzilla was marching on Tokyo, then the amount of sexual inexperience would diminish quite quickly.

Coming to a theater near you:

Godzilla Does Tokyo

ROWL! So how you doin, baby? ROWL!
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Old 8th April 2019, 11:08 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
//Mods: I split the difference on putting it here or up in the medical subforum. Move as needed.//

CNN: 1 in 4 Japanese Adults in their 20s and 30s is a virgin.



Full Article: https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/08/healt...ntl/index.html
The same kind of development is occurring in other highly developed countries too. People, especially young males, are having sex less often and lose their virginity at a later date than before. The same applies to alcohol consumption and criminality.

While some people (Americans mostly) seem to treat less sex as an entirely positive development there are good reasons to be concerned. Japan is a great example of how a low fertility rate combined with negligible immigration has led to a rapidly shrinking population. Most western countries has avoided this at least in part by allowing more immigration than Japan has.

One of the reasons behind this is of course that today it's far easier and comfortable to be a asocial shut-in than ever before.
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Old 8th April 2019, 11:41 AM   #7
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CNN: 1 in 4 Japanese Adults in their 20s and 30s is a virgin.

Suddenly thousands of lonely, overweight sweaty American men (at least those who have poor socials skills and a pron-inspired fetish-like unrealistic idea of what actual Japanese women are like) offer to step forward to help!
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Old 8th April 2019, 05:02 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
One of the reasons behind this is of course that today it's far easier and comfortable to be a asocial shut-in than ever before.
Yes, with the internet and other forms of modern computer-based entertainment you can have something that emotionally feels a bit like a social life, without actually having a social life. If someone else pays your bills.
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Old 8th April 2019, 05:27 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Maybe it's because when the opportunity comes, the participants are expecting either tentacles or large pixels.
Zero to ethnic stereotypes in three posts. Not bad.
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Old 8th April 2019, 06:56 PM   #10
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What's wrong with people living as they want to? If someone wants to go out and party all the time, fine. If someone wants to stay home and only be online, that's fine, too. Before it was slut-shaming, oh it's not good to be promiscuous, you should stay pure until marriage. And now it's the opposite, if you're a virgin there's something wrong with you?

Everybody should be free to live as they please, however makes them happy, if they're not hurting anybody (who doesn't want it). People telling other people what "normal" is and that they should be like that, regardless of preference, is the source of unhappiness. Not letting people be themselves.
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Old 8th April 2019, 07:53 PM   #11
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I dunno TragicMonkey.

Sexual health is a component of overall well-being. I've experienced that frustration myself coming from a very conservative environment and experiencing it later than most young western men.
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Old 9th April 2019, 01:11 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
What's wrong with people living as they want to? If someone wants to go out and party all the time, fine. If someone wants to stay home and only be online, that's fine, too. Before it was slut-shaming, oh it's not good to be promiscuous, you should stay pure until marriage. And now it's the opposite, if you're a virgin there's something wrong with you?

Everybody should be free to live as they please, however makes them happy, if they're not hurting anybody (who doesn't want it). People telling other people what "normal" is and that they should be like that, regardless of preference, is the source of unhappiness. Not letting people be themselves.
The thing that makes me unhappy is the social anxiety that prevents me getting into friendships and relationships. I'd bet a significant number of people who have never had sex would say the same.
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Old 9th April 2019, 01:20 AM   #13
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Have you considered marrying an anime character instead?

Quote:
Akihiko Kondo’s mother refused an invitation to her only son’s wedding in Tokyo this month, but perhaps that isn’t such a surprise: He was marrying a hologram.

“For Mother, it wasn’t something to celebrate,” said the soft-spoken 35-year-old, whose “bride” is a virtual reality singer named Hatsune Miku.

In fact, none of Kondo’s relatives attended his wedding to Miku — an animated 16-year-old with saucer eyes and lengthy aquamarine pigtails — but that didn’t stop him from spending 2 million on a formal ceremony at a Tokyo hall.

Around 40 guests watched as he tied the knot with Miku, present in the form of a cat-sized stuffed doll.

“I never cheated on her, I’ve always been in love with Miku-san,” he said.
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Old 9th April 2019, 02:06 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Japan is a great example of how a low fertility rate combined with negligible immigration has led to a rapidly shrinking population. Most western countries has avoided this at least in part by allowing more immigration than Japan has.
That should be a good thing.
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Old 9th April 2019, 02:17 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
What's wrong with people living as they want to? If someone wants to go out and party all the time, fine. If someone wants to stay home and only be online, that's fine, too. Before it was slut-shaming, oh it's not good to be promiscuous, you should stay pure until marriage. And now it's the opposite, if you're a virgin there's something wrong with you?

Everybody should be free to live as they please, however makes them happy, if they're not hurting anybody (who doesn't want it). People telling other people what "normal" is and that they should be like that, regardless of preference, is the source of unhappiness. Not letting people be themselves.
And yet studies about sex and intimate relationships show that many people, especially young men, are frustrated about their predicament yet may lack the social skills and/or opportunity to establish a relationship.
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Old 9th April 2019, 03:05 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
That should be a good thing.
I agree. Although it potentially presents some challenges, such as caring for the elderly, but they may be not as dire as some would make them out to be.
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Old 9th April 2019, 03:12 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
And yet studies about sex and intimate relationships show that many people, especially young men, are frustrated about their predicament yet may lack the social skills and/or opportunity to establish a relationship.
The "in" in incel stands for involuntary. They supposedly aren't alone by choice (although incel subculture is horrifyingly misogynistic).

According to the study:
Quote:
The team found that around 80 percent of women and men aged 25 to 39 who reported having had no such experience in the study responded that they wished to get married at some point in their lives.
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Old 9th April 2019, 03:59 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
And yet studies about sex and intimate relationships show that many people, especially young men, are frustrated about their predicament yet may lack the social skills and/or opportunity to establish a relationship.
I think you and the other two missed where I said people should live in the way that makes them happy. If someone's a virgin at forty because they prefer it then that's fine. If they're not happy with it then that's different.
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Old 9th April 2019, 04:17 AM   #19
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But they are probably a small minority of the 21-22% of the 25-29-year-olds and of the 8-9% of the 35-39-year-olds: Asexuality (Wikipedia).
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Old 9th April 2019, 07:18 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Yes, with the internet and other forms of modern computer-based entertainment you can have something that emotionally feels a bit like a social life, without actually having a social life. If someone else pays your bills.
The availability of telework has made it so that your last sentence needn't be true.
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Old 9th April 2019, 07:24 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
CNN: 1 in 4 Japanese Adults in their 20s and 30s is a virgin.

Suddenly thousands of lonely, overweight sweaty American men (at least those who have poor socials skills and a pron-inspired fetish-like unrealistic idea of what actual Japanese women are like) offer to step forward to help!
Hahaha, this was the first thing I thought too. I'm glad I'm not alone in my wicked thoughts.
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Old 9th April 2019, 07:26 AM   #22
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I get the headline sort of invites a few chuckles and jokes, but honestly I actually give Japan props for treating the sexual health of their citizens as something at least as warranted of concern as other mental and physical health issues.

I can't speak to the validity of this particular issue with any level of authority, but I'm not mad or bemused by the very idea of it.
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Old 9th April 2019, 07:28 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
The availability of telework has made it so that your last sentence needn't be true.
Not to mention that you can work without really socializing with your fellow workers.
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Old 9th April 2019, 07:30 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Maybe it's because when the opportunity comes, the participants are expecting either tentacles or large pixels.
That's what Japanese genitals actually look like.

True fact.
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Old 9th April 2019, 07:31 AM   #25
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I mentioned this in the UBI thread but David Wong brings up a good point, you can, if you so choose to, get pretty much everything beyond the base on Maslow's Hierarchy of needs with a 300 dollar laptop and a 50 dollar a month internet connection.
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Old 9th April 2019, 07:33 AM   #26
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Japan's rate of working poor (Wikipedia) is very close to the percentage of 35-39-year-old virgins: 8,2%.
Coincidence?
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Old 9th April 2019, 07:34 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
That should be a good thing.
It is a good thing, if you're of a particular view. Otherwise, not so much.
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Old 9th April 2019, 07:45 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I mentioned this in the UBI thread but David Wong brings up a good point, you can, if you so choose to, get pretty much everything beyond the base on Maslow's Hierarchy of needs with a 300 dollar laptop and a 50 dollar a month internet connection.
I get you are joking, but some really believe this. Cyberspace =/= real life. You can 'meet' girls, but it doesn't matter till you get out and get physical. You can watch videos of hang gliding and surfing, but that doesn't hold a candle to strapping in or paddling out. Watching life on a screen is not what the humans do. I've been taking notes.
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Old 9th April 2019, 07:53 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
It is a good thing, if you're of a particular view. Otherwise, not so much.
Ha! I saw your little link there and thought, "It would be funny if that was the Voluntary Human Extinction Project." And yup! They're still around. I ordered one of their T-shirts once. I think it was either right before or right after my 21st birthday. I remember feeling like such an edgy, contrarian badass. I was also into the Venus Project around that time, which is extremely contradictory now that I think about it. I guess I wanted to have a plan on either extreme?

Silly nostalgia aside, Zig, I think the person you were responding to meant that overpopulation is becoming a general global issue, so lowered birth rates in crowded countries might not be such a bad thing? I don't have the figures to agree or disagree with that, but I think that's what they meant, as opposed to the advocacy of anti-natalism.
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Old 9th April 2019, 07:55 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I get you are joking, but some really believe this. Cyberspace =/= real life. You can 'meet' girls, but it doesn't matter till you get out and get physical. You can watch videos of hang gliding and surfing, but that doesn't hold a candle to strapping in or paddling out. Watching life on a screen is not what the humans do. I've been taking notes.
I'm not joking. Whether or not it's a "good" thing is up for endless debate, but the fact that we have people who are completely comfortable with getting everything outside their base biological needs on the internet is inarguable.

And as both technology and comfort/familiarity with it increase that's not gonna go away.
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Old 9th April 2019, 08:04 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm not joking. Whether or not it's a "good" thing is up for endless debate, but the fact that we have people who are completely comfortable with getting everything outside their base biological needs on the internet is inarguable.

And as both technology and comfort/familiarity with it increase that's not gonna go away.
I'd say they were not getting them. They're pretending to get them. A real life is not online, like porn or chatting with a bot is not real sexual intimacy.

I read a post on this forum somewhere: Go...Out...Siiiiiiide.
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Old 9th April 2019, 08:06 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I'd say they were not getting them. They're pretending to get them. A real life is not online, like porn or chatting with a bot is not real sexual intimacy.
At a certain point convincing yourself you are happy/satisfied and just being happy/satisfied becomes a distinction without difference.

But again the "good" of it is another topic (and another topic since this is already veering into the weeds from the OP). It's a thing that people do. It's sustainable at least for the short time the evidence says.

ETA: Or hell let's not get too hung up on the "sex" part. When is the last time you had a discussion about the topics we discuss on the board in the real world? Fine maybe (g)you is an exception and meets at the gentlemen's club to discuss politics and philosophy and religion over brandy and cigars, but I'd wager for most of us whatever intellectual/emotional/social itch online discussions scratch are only handled for us online.
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Old 9th April 2019, 08:15 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
Silly nostalgia aside, Zig, I think the person you were responding to meant that overpopulation is becoming a general global issue, so lowered birth rates in crowded countries might not be such a bad thing? I don't have the figures to agree or disagree with that, but I think that's what they meant, as opposed to the advocacy of anti-natalism.
I'm sure that's what they meant, but that's not the way things are actually playing out. Overpopulation isn't a problem for a country like Japan, but demographic collapse is a real and serious threat.

And even globally, there's reason to think that population decline rather than growth is the future.
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Old 9th April 2019, 08:19 AM   #34
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"OMG we're gonna outbreed the carrying capacity of the planet" has been one of the environmentalist boogeymen for decades.

As societies grow and prosper birth rates go down. You know once you start separating the pooping water from the drinking water and using farming techniques more advanced then "Wishful thinking and maybe sometimes sacrificing a virgin" you don't have to worry so much about 4 of the 356 kids you have making it to adulthood.

Yeah there's always that weird "population boom" period after you achieve the necessary steps to... you know not have most of you die but before you calm down and stop pumping out the little ones, but it never lasts.
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Old 9th April 2019, 08:22 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
What's wrong with people living as they want to? If someone wants to go out and party all the time, fine. If someone wants to stay home and only be online, that's fine, too. Before it was slut-shaming, oh it's not good to be promiscuous, you should stay pure until marriage. And now it's the opposite, if you're a virgin there's something wrong with you?

Everybody should be free to live as they please, however makes them happy, if they're not hurting anybody (who doesn't want it). People telling other people what "normal" is and that they should be like that, regardless of preference, is the source of unhappiness. Not letting people be themselves.
Dude, you are getting weirder every day. You may want to chill before you cross some point of no return.
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Old 9th April 2019, 08:23 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Cyberspace =/= real life. You can 'meet' girls, but it doesn't matter till you get out and get physical.
And that doesn't always go according to plan.

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Old 9th April 2019, 08:26 AM   #37
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Symptom of people being isolated socially from the real world. Online life gives you an inflated sense of self worth, people listen to you when you are an idiot ( you are reading this post are you not? ), complement your writing when it is awful, and compliment your skills when they are mediocre to fuel the attention subculture.

I say your fanfic was great, not because it was, but because I want you to read mine, I respond to your post so I can get a response, etc and the cycle continues.

On the internet you are beautiful, because a million people who look just like you want to hear the same.

But in the real world this starts to crumble. So many people think you are sexy, but no one takes you home at the bar, you so around your story that got 2k likes and get told is ****. It creates a sense of cognitive dissonance that makes you want to be back online where you are awesome, feeding the cycle.

As to how to get rid of attention culture? No idea, all I can see is it impacting the world in negative ways.
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Old 9th April 2019, 08:29 AM   #38
Thermal
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
At a certain point convincing yourself you are happy/satisfied and just being happy/satisfied becomes a distinction without difference.
Couldn't disagree more strongly. Lying to yourself is not living.

Quote:
But again the "good" of it is another topic (and another topic since this is already veering into the weeds from the OP). It's a thing that people do. It's sustainable at least for the short time the evidence says.
So is holding your breath underwater. But agreed, interesting topic but not this one. Although it very well may intersect with the reasons for the OP.

Quote:
ETA: Or hell let's not get too hung up on the "sex" part. When is the last time you had a discussion about the topics we discuss on the board in the real world? Fine maybe (g)you is an exception and meets at the gentlemen's club to discuss politics and philosophy and religion over brandy and cigars, but I'd wager for most of us whatever intellectual/emotional/social itch online discussions scratch are only handled for us online.
Sure, skip the sex. It is just a more glaring example of the failure of the premise.

I think we all have similar discussions IRL, no? But this is a small niche of the human experience. Really small. I would trade all my postings for a bike ride with my kids, in terms of being alive.
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Old 9th April 2019, 08:31 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
And that doesn't always go according to plan.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...cb8ce3030b.gif
Yup. And I'm happy to take the wins with the bruises, rather than pretend
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Old 9th April 2019, 08:32 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
At a certain point convincing yourself you are happy/satisfied and just being happy/satisfied becomes a distinction without difference.

But again the "good" of it is another topic (and another topic since this is already veering into the weeds from the OP). It's a thing that people do. It's sustainable at least for the short time the evidence says.

ETA: Or hell let's not get too hung up on the "sex" part. When is the last time you had a discussion about the topics we discuss on the board in the real world? Fine maybe (g)you is an exception and meets at the gentlemen's club to discuss politics and philosophy and religion over brandy and cigars, but I'd wager for most of us whatever intellectual/emotional/social itch online discussions scratch are only handled for us online.
It doesn't though, you essentially mentally double down until you hit a point that breaks your illusion. Making the mental trauma that much worse.

As a stereotypical example, think of the old guy who for 30 years "didn't need no damn friends" , more likely than not eventually he is going to reflect on what he has missed out on, and this is going to be extra mental trauma on top of trying to figure out how to make friends.

Doing social work I see this stuff a lot. People get used to their normal, but at some point the real world always sneaks its way in.
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