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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , donald trump , lying charges , Russia conspiracies , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections , US-Russia relations , vladimir putin

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Old 28th December 2017, 10:17 AM   #241
WilliamSeger
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Even wondered why I and my "Russian propaganda sites" make these predictions if we know that there is something to cover up and had to fear your magnificent checks and balances would finally uncover it and wash away our puppet president?

Didn't think so.
In the States, we call it "whistling past the graveyard."

Get real: If Mueller does find a "smoking gun," even most Trump supporters won't actually be surprised. But they also won't care, so they'll continue to deny it and smear Mueller.
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Old 28th December 2017, 10:47 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Ever wondered why I and my "Russian propaganda sites" make these predictions if we know that there is something to cover up and had to fear your magnificent checks and balances would finally uncover it and wash away our puppet president?

Didn't think so.
Well since you asked me a question, then I will do my best to answer your question.

I really do not know why you continually write inane posts based on crap data. Also, I really do not know why you often post gibberish.

However, I do know that you do write inane posts that are based on crap data. Also, I do know that you post gibberish.

Further, I have noticed that you do occasionally acknowledge the flaws in your arguments, however you persist in proceeding with these arguments all the same.

In any event, I really do not care just what it is that motivates your actions. After all, I am sure that it would be much better for you to discuss such matters with your therapist as opposed to me.

And in the meantime, if you can ever figure out what it is that you are bitching about, then please let the rest of us know.
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Old 28th December 2017, 10:50 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
We were talking about "smoking gun." I don't think you have any smoking guns in any of this. Is there stuff other than smoking guns? Sure. But you are the one who brought up the term.
Then try reading the book Collusion by Luke Harding for your answers.

There are numerous and well documented cases of Trump and important Trump supporters who received large funds from Russia and who may well be FSB assets.
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Old 28th December 2017, 11:03 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Then try reading the book Collusion by Luke Harding for your answers.

There are numerous and well documented cases of Trump and important Trump supporters who received large funds from Russia and who may well be FSB assets.
Unless they filled out the memo line on the heck, that isn't a smoking gun that the money was for collusion.
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Old 28th December 2017, 11:27 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Unless they filled out the memo line on the heck, that isn't a smoking gun that the money was for collusion.
This post makes no sense.

If you are not too busy trying to justify that torture is constitutional, then I would appreciate a re-write.
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Old 28th December 2017, 11:33 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
This post makes no sense.

If you are not too busy trying to justify that torture is constitutional, then I would appreciate a re-write.
You said they received money. Unless the check says it was for collusion, you don't have a smoking gun for collusion.
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Old 28th December 2017, 11:50 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
You said they received money. Unless the check says it was for collusion, you don't have a smoking gun for collusion.
Thanks for the re-write but you are still not making any sense.
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Old 28th December 2017, 11:52 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Thanks for the re-write but you are still not making any sense.
Payments are not smoking guns.
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Old 28th December 2017, 11:56 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Then try reading the book Collusion by Luke Harding for your answers.

There are numerous and well documented cases of Trump and important Trump supporters who received large funds from Russia and who may well be FSB assets.

In case anybody missed Luke making the case, here it is again.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 28th December 2017, 12:01 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Payments are not smoking guns.
You do not know what you are talking about.
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Old 28th December 2017, 12:03 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Well since you asked me a question, then I will do my best to answer your question.

It was a rhetorical question.
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Old 28th December 2017, 12:22 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
You do not know what you are talking about.
Okay
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Old 28th December 2017, 12:24 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
You said they received money. Unless the check says it was for collusion, you don't have a smoking gun for collusion.
You're right. It's evidence for a conspiracy which is a crime. If you and I discuss hacking e-mails and releasing them to the public in exchange for money and then I give you money, that's conspiracy. Hacking e-mails is a violation of Title 18 USC (the criminal code of the US) and we discussed doing it and then I give you said money, we are both guilty of conspiracy even if you never hacked any e-mails. We talked about breaking the law and then one of us made an overt act to further the plot (paying you).
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Old 28th December 2017, 12:25 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
You said they received money. Unless the check says it was for collusion, you don't have a smoking gun for collusion.
They still use cheques in your part of the world?

How quaint.

One day you might even get this new fangled thingy called the interwebs.
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Old 28th December 2017, 12:27 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
You're right. It's evidence for a conspiracy which is a crime. If you and I discuss hacking e-mails and releasing them to the public in exchange for money and then I give you money, that's conspiracy. Hacking e-mails is a violation of Title 18 USC (the criminal code of the US) and we discussed doing it and then I give you said money, we are both guilty of conspiracy even if you never hacked any e-mails. We talked about breaking the law and then one of us made an overt act to further the plot (paying you).
Yea,if you had a smoking gun of that, that would be awesome. But you don't.
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Old 28th December 2017, 12:33 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Yea,if you had a smoking gun of that, that would be awesome. But you don't.
I suspect the special counsel does, on Manafort and Gates.
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Old 28th December 2017, 12:45 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I suspect the special counsel does, on Manafort and Gates.
Maybe. A smoking gun wouldn't be required.
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Old 28th December 2017, 12:45 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
It was a rhetorical question.
Well then, I am sorry to have disturbed your train of thought.

After all, sometimes it can be difficult for one to determine when you are posting crap data or when you are posting gibberish or when you posting a mixture of crap data and gibberish.
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Old 28th December 2017, 12:46 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Okay
At least you have finally gotten around to acknowledging the obvious on this one point.

Good for you!
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Old 28th December 2017, 01:22 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Thanks for your concern. If you are unable to decipher my humour in response to the parrots,
I am able to decipher your 'humour' just fine. I am just an outsider to these threads who is telling you that you're making yourself look stupid.

Quote:
I recommend you stick to my "source material" to learn something, as the "source material" of the parrots is what has apparently deceived you in the first place
You don't know what 'source material' I read to form my opinions, I can say though that if you are swallowing the party line of RT hook line and sinker, then looking stupid might be the least of your concerns.

All media is slanted to a greater or lesser extent, both from inbuilt bias from the writers beliefs that unconsciously influences the writer/editor, as well as bias from outside influence. (see Fox News for an egregious example)

So you shouldn't trust any of it at face value. Instead go to the sources they used for their stories and then find other sources to corroborate/disprove them. It's easier of course to just pick your favourite flavour of journalist and believe what they tell you.
It's ironic to think that it's harder to get to the truth these days when we have so much more information thats much easier to get than in days gone by, but hey.

You can now return to calling me a moron for not slavishly following your point of view and dismissing my thoughts because I think differently to you.

Oh and as far as "Saint Mueller" goes (see how using childish names diminishes your point) lets just wait a while, I think he's just getting warmed up and the real fireworks haven't been lit yet.
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Old 28th December 2017, 01:23 PM   #261
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Given how this Part 3 of the thread developed so far, I think it would be uncool to not link to Alexander Mercouris' just published two cents on the Harding interview.
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Old 28th December 2017, 01:36 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by Ambrosia View Post
You can now return to calling me a moron

See how you completely made that up, Ambrosia? I did not call you a moron or anything close, I wasn't even unfriendly, just direct. I gave you counter-advise to your advise. I take it that you write in good faith, but that thing you just posted is full of kind of obvious "truisms", and like your previous post shows that you aren't paying close attention to this topic.

It might surprise you, but I almost never directly consume anything on RT (or Sputnik). I am subscribed to just one author of RT Deutsch who occasionally posts thoughtful pieces from the perspective of a German homosexual who went to Russia to find out what is going on there. He actually published another one last evening.
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Old 28th December 2017, 01:50 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by Ambrosia View Post
So you shouldn't trust any of it at face value.
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Given how this Part 3 of the thread developed so far, I think it would be uncool to not link to Alexander Mercouris' just published two cents on the Harding interview.
oooh seeing as it's Christmas lets indulge you.

Hmm theDuran, never heard of this site lets google it...

Originally Posted by mediabiasfactcheck website
[from here] Bias: Extreme Right, Propaganda

Notes: The Duran is an online news and opinion source with a strong right wing bias. There is evidence they have posted misleading information and they have perpetuated some conspiracies.
Well alarm bells are ringing!

So the article is basically gushing over the content of an interview between Harding and someone who looks like a genuine journalist about Hardings new book. An interview in which Harding reportedly does rather poorly.

To which we must ask the four important questions!
  1. yeah?
  2. and?
  3. so?
  4. what?

How accurate Hardings book is has little to do with whether or not Trump colluded with Russia.

Harding obviously enthusiastically thinks so, others like the writer of the article enthusiastically think not. His article is a click bait fest, replete with interspersed adverts and it's regurgitating useful copy that someone else produced in a thinly veiled attempt to drive advertising revenue by having a controversial point of view.

Sites like these make a ton of cash for someone, and that's why they exist. It's not for any newsworthy reason. It's just about milking web advertising dollars and if they sometimes have useful items on them it's for the same reason that blind squirrels find nuts sometimes.
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Old 28th December 2017, 02:28 PM   #264
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^ Ambrosia you are wrong here. It was an inside joke to post that article, and the interview he talks about is the one we are bitching about for a couple of pages now and that was just cruelly reposted by me in #249.
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Old 28th December 2017, 02:35 PM   #265
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Also, The Duran is "extreme right-wing"? That's total bollocks. What kind of "fact-checking" site is this? And it doesn't even mention Russia.

I voted in the poll expressing the opinion that it is a credible source. Who would have thought, that's the leading poll option now with over 1500 total voters in the poll.

LOL.

The stupidity.
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Old 28th December 2017, 02:39 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Ever wondered why I and my "Russian propaganda sites" make these predictions if we know that there is something to cover up and had to fear your magnificent checks and balances would finally uncover it and wash away our puppet president?

Didn't think so.
I don't think anyone has accused you of knowing anything about these matters.

To be sure, I know nothing either. I'm content to wait and see what comes of it.
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Old 28th December 2017, 03:20 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
It is almost 2018, Squeegee. You have been waiting faithfully all the time, and I told you all the time it is in vain. Saint Mueller isn't coming. You've been fooled. To the extent that everybody who hasn't is a "Russian agent" in your mind. That's embarrassing.


But arrests and charges have already been made.
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Old 28th December 2017, 03:25 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
But arrests and charges have already been made.

Two charges over totally unrelated money-laundering issues, two over "lying to the FBI" about things that aren't even crimes. None even close to anything implied by the "Russia meddled in US election" CT which is commonly known as RussiaGate.
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Old 28th December 2017, 03:33 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
With the holidays, I've fallen behind in my lurking.

I take it there are folks who don't believe that the Trump campaign was working with the Russians, but are any still denying that there was contact between the two? Is anyone denying that the Russians were actively helping the Trump campaign and the GOP in general?
Trump is still denying it. It hurts his ego to admit it.

BTW, the evidence of Russian interference is really piling up. They have been interfering for years and that includes interfering in down ballot races. In addition they have been stoking both right and left sides battling with the other.

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Old 28th December 2017, 03:59 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
<snip>

The FBI side is pretty clear, the DoJ side is under increasing open source investigation at the moment.

<snip>

"Open source investigation"? Is that your new euphemism for "making stuff up out of whole cloth"?

The Conservative Treehouse? Really? That's the best you could do?

That tree is truly full of nuts.
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Old 28th December 2017, 04:06 PM   #271
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The FBI is under attack by Trump and how supporters but only to serve Trump's interests. It's strange how they want to paint the FBI as liberal conspirators even though there is zero evidence that they are.
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Old 28th December 2017, 04:18 PM   #272
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This article has a decent summation of the so-called "collusion" charge and other potential charges. It purports that legally, whatever the Mueller investigation finds, a charge of "collusion" will not be filed.
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Old 28th December 2017, 05:46 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by Monza View Post
This article has a decent summation of the so-called "collusion" charge and other potential charges. It purports that legally, whatever the Mueller investigation finds, a charge of "collusion" will not be filed.
Indeed. However, collusion might well be demonstrated in the process of prosecuting other offenses. Not that that would make any difference to Trump and his supporters, who will claim vindication because there's no charge of collusion.


https://www.thefreedictionary.com/collusion
"An often secret action taken by two or more parties to achieve an illegal or improper purpose".
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Old 28th December 2017, 06:08 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
the interview he talks about is the one we are bitching about for a couple of pages now
Yes. And?

Just because an author is a terrible interview subject it doesn't automatically mean that their work is worthless. I'd be a bit less quick to jump on the bandwagon myself.

Trump is the single worst US president in living memory and W set *such* a low bar.

If Trump didn't collude with Russia, then why has he got himself into this mess?

It should be an easy answer. "No I didn't collude with Russia, I have nothing to hide, here are all our files"

Instead he fired the guy that was investigating him, and senior members of the Trump team are under serious investigation and/or are already indicted.
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Old 28th December 2017, 06:22 PM   #275
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Originally Posted by Monza View Post
This article has a decent summation of the so-called "collusion" charge and other potential charges. It purports that legally, whatever the Mueller investigation finds, a charge of "collusion" will not be filed.
Er, isn't that obvious? Since there literally is no charge of "collusion"?

This is an informal term regarding whether or not there were certain coordinations between Trump and the Russians involving interference in the campaign. Such coordinations would necessarily lead to other charges, if any are appropriate.

There's no such legal term as "collusion", far as I know.
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Old 28th December 2017, 06:38 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Er, isn't that obvious? Since there literally is no charge of "collusion"?

This is an informal term regarding whether or not there were certain coordinations between Trump and the Russians involving interference in the campaign. Such coordinations would necessarily lead to other charges, if any are appropriate.

There's no such legal term as "collusion", far as I know.
I read somewhere that there is, but only in some narrow anti-trust laws (e.g. price-fixing). The formal charge, if any, will be "conspiracy to commit" some crime such as espionage or illegal campaign contributions, but it means the same thing.
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Old 28th December 2017, 07:39 PM   #277
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I think the charge will be conspiracy to commit treason.
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Old 28th December 2017, 07:54 PM   #278
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I think the charge will be conspiracy to commit treason.
Would you take a signature or Avatar bet on that?
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Old 28th December 2017, 08:50 PM   #279
jimbob
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Would you take a signature or Avatar bet on that?
I wouldn't.

Due to the narrow definition of Treason in US law.
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OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 29th December 2017, 05:04 AM   #280
Beelzebuddy
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Originally Posted by Monza View Post
This article has a decent summation of the so-called "collusion" charge and other potential charges. It purports that legally, whatever the Mueller investigation finds, a charge of "collusion" will not be filed.
Do you read Seth Abramson's twit feed? I find it less... dumbed down.
https://twitter.com/SethAbramson

Briefly: since we know there were criminal acts on the part of foreign actors, and more importantly since Trump knew there were criminal acts on the part of foreign actors, any collusion with those actors immediately becomes a criminal conspiracy to aid and abet their crimes. So evidence of collusion still matters very much. The pertinent question is not "did Trump collude with Russia," but "what did he know, and when did he know it?"
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