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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , donald trump , lawsuits , Michael Cohen , Stephanie Clifford , Stormy Daniels , Trump controversies

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Old 9th May 2018, 11:13 AM   #1
The Big Dog
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Mod Info This is a continuation of the previous thread. Participants are free to quote from the previous thread.
Posted By:Agatha



Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
1,442,420 > 1,135,000
One may wish to review the timing of the deposits and withdrawals...
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Old 9th May 2018, 11:14 AM   #2
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Yes, I think The Big Dog misinterpreted Elliott Broidy's payment
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Old 9th May 2018, 11:14 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I can ask them if you want, but I am pretty sure they are going to say that it is unethical to use documents that were stolen from a third party.
Presumes they were stolen.
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Old 9th May 2018, 11:14 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Maybe TBD has an accountant buddy too.
Nope, just a calendar.
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Old 9th May 2018, 11:15 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
One may wish to review the timing of the deposits and withdrawals...
Are you saying it's a cash flow issue?
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Old 9th May 2018, 11:18 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Are you saying it's a cash flow issue?
I have explained that the information released by Stormy's lawyer is obviously incomplete as simple analysis of the deposits and withdrawals can easily confirm.

I mean that it is obvious, the chart shows withdrawals through September 2017 that SUBSTANTIALLY exceed the deposits as of September
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Old 9th May 2018, 11:24 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I have explained that the information released by Stormy's lawyer is obviously incomplete as simple analysis of the deposits and withdrawals can easily confirm.
What information is missing, a running account balance with opening and ending balances?
You could just say "I don't know what cash flow means", also.
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Old 9th May 2018, 11:32 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
What information is missing, a running account balance with opening and ending balances?
You could just say "I don't know what cash flow means", also.


I literally just explained "the chart shows withdrawals through September 2017 that SUBSTANTIALLY exceed the deposits as of September."

Clearly there is information missing, this is obvious.
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Old 9th May 2018, 11:33 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
We also know that he did not issue a subpoena, rather it seems clear that he got them as the result of an improper leak, which he refuses to disclose based on 'work product' which I am sure the thread lawyers will shortly tell us is not how authenticity works.
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I can ask them if you want, but I am pretty sure they are going to say that it is unethical to use documents that were stolen from a third party.
You forgot to provide ANY EVIDENCE for these claims.
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Old 9th May 2018, 11:35 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post


I literally just explained "the chart shows withdrawals through September 2017 that SUBSTANTIALLY exceed the deposits as of September."

Clearly there is information missing, this is obvious.
The account balance, then? Did they take it down too far? Why does it matter to the analysis?
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Old 9th May 2018, 11:41 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
The account balance, then? Did they take it down too far? Why does it matter to the analysis?
They took it down well below negative according to the chart .... which shows that the information is incomplete.
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Old 9th May 2018, 11:48 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
They took it down well below negative according to the chart .... which shows that the information is incomplete.
Can you show your math? Because I don't see that.

From the list, there was $1,242,420 in the account at the time of Cohen's 1,005,000 withdrawal.

You do realize, I hope, that the arrows on the chart show whether money was put in or out, and it's source and destination? Broidy added $62,500 to the account....the rest of the expenditures on there are from him to Keith Davidson via REAG.

ETA: Actually, a correction: should have been $1,112,420 when Cohen withdrew his cash (according to the chart). I forgot to take out the $130k for Stormy.

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Old 9th May 2018, 11:49 AM   #13
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What we're looking at is cash flow for a given period.

I think some are expecting it to "balance". That's a mistaken assumption.

To which someone could just reply, "Ah, yes. I stand corrected".

I won't hold my breath.
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Old 9th May 2018, 11:49 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
They took it down well below negative according to the chart .... which shows that the information is incomplete.
Depends on what the balance before and after the timeline is. Why do you think it even matters? Do you think the information they show is all they have? Once again, you are somehow thinking the cash flow balance is important for some reason.
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Old 9th May 2018, 11:50 AM   #15
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It is kind of shocking with all the money laundering Trump has been involved in over the years that he and his employees are not better at it.
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Old 9th May 2018, 11:50 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
They took it down well below negative according to the chart .... which shows that the information is incomplete.
The chart is definitely incomplete. MSNBC is saying at least $4 million went though the LLC...
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Old 9th May 2018, 11:52 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Random View Post
The chart is definitely incomplete. MSNBC is saying at least $4 million went though the LLC...
Yes, thank you, that is what I have been trying to explain.
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Old 9th May 2018, 11:55 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Yes, thank you, that is what I have been trying to explain.
No, you were focused on a single month, September 2017.
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Old 9th May 2018, 11:57 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post


I literally just explained "the chart shows withdrawals through September 2017 that SUBSTANTIALLY exceed the deposits as of September."

Clearly there is information missing, this is obvious.
Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
No, you were focused on a single month, September 2017.
False.
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Old 9th May 2018, 12:06 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
False.
And you did not say WHY September flows were important. If the rest of the income occurred before the timeline, outflows in September are not important. If you start with a million, taking out a few hundred thousand as of September is unimportant. It's the end to end inflows and outflows.

ETA: I feel like I am debating a climate change denialist, picking two points most favorable to their argument on the global temperature timeline.
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Old 9th May 2018, 12:13 PM   #21
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From part I post 3550
Originally Posted by lomiller
Not directly since the payment to Stormy happened before the Russian money was put in the account.
That presumes there were single payments. The payments could have been made before to that account or to another one.

Originally Posted by Random View Post
The chart is definitely incomplete. MSNBC is saying at least $4 million went though the LLC...
Like I was saying.
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Old 9th May 2018, 12:13 PM   #22
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Well this absolutely has got to be a first for me, I point out that a chart is missing information and someone vociferously disagrees with me by pointing out that there may be missing information.

Oy vey....
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Old 9th May 2018, 12:20 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Well this absolutely has got to be a first for me, I point out that a chart is missing information and someone vociferously disagrees with me by pointing out that there may be missing information.

Oy vey....
Why was September important to you?
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Old 9th May 2018, 12:24 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Why was September important to you?
Because the chart shows that the $1,005,000 figure was withdraw between July and September 2017.
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Old 9th May 2018, 12:36 PM   #25
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At this stage it's probably a given that the info on the EC LLC inflow/outflow of $$ is incomplete. And so haggling over details of figures is a fool's errand. Suffice it to say that the sources and timing are awfully suggestive of pay-to-play influence peddling.
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Old 9th May 2018, 12:42 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Because the chart shows that the $1,005,000 figure was withdraw between July and September 2017.
So? Why is that important to you? Do you think it would be "overdrawn", like a bank account?
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Old 9th May 2018, 12:45 PM   #27
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It is a bank account.
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Old 9th May 2018, 12:46 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
It is a bank account.
Why does that matter?
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Old 9th May 2018, 12:46 PM   #29
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Since Cohen isn't registered as a lobbyist, wouldn't it be illegal not just for him, but for AT&T to hire him in such a capacity. Their email said he was a "consultant" and that it wasn't for lobbying but that is absurd.
Quote:
Cohen was one of those consultants. Cohen did no legal or lobbying work for us, and our contract with Cohen expired at the end of its term in December 2017. It was not until the following month in January 2018 that the media first reported, and AT&T first became aware of, the current controversy surrounding Cohen.
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Old 9th May 2018, 12:54 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by portlandatheist View Post
Since Cohen isn't registered as a lobbyist, wouldn't it be illegal not just for him, but for AT&T to hire him in such a capacity. Their email said he was a "consultant" and that it wasn't for lobbying but that is absurd.
According to the LA Times:

Quote:
Cohen wouldn't have had to register as a lobbyist unless he spent 20% of the time he devoted to AT&T on efforts to influence the federal government while having at least two contacts with one or more high-ranking government officials, including members of Congress, their staff or administration officials.
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Old 9th May 2018, 12:59 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by portlandatheist View Post
Since Cohen isn't registered as a lobbyist, wouldn't it be illegal not just for him, but for AT&T to hire him in such a capacity. Their email said he was a "consultant" and that it wasn't for lobbying but that is absurd.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/994156631440216069

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Michael Avenatti

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Priceless = Watching all of the companies that sent money to the LLC slush fund come up with different alleged reasons for hiring Mr. Cohen – “accounting advice,” “real estate consulting,” “insight,” etc. Who knew Mr. Cohen was such a brilliant renaissance man? #nonsense #basta


Again from Badscience:

Liverpoolmiss has also pointed out that Muller interviewed Novartis about their links to Cohen and Essential in November - so we know he's ahead of the curve on this.

Originally Posted by liverpoolmiss
That Korea Aerospace describes it as "accounting advice" is the killer. One excuse being so ridiculous reveals the others to be shams as well, even though in isolation "property consulting" or "insight" might have a veneer of plausibility.

But I suppose no excuse could work, given Essential was a shell company created in order to shuffle money around. Essential opened its bank accounts with lies, and the KYC rules for banks ("know your customer") expressly exist to prevent shuffling of money around. It had no employees, no premises, no marketing to try and win these clients eager for advice, not even a website. The only way AT&T and Novartis could have known about Essential Consultants is if they got told: pay here.

Giuliani tried to take the line that the Stormy Daniels was a private payment, unrelated to the campaign, something Cohen handled as Trump's private fixer. In that case, AT&T and Novartis paid huge amounts into a fund that was then used for Trump's private payment. AT&T is American, subject to US law, SEC regulations, US taxes. It's clearly a secret bribe - AT&T secretly funding the secret slush fund that had secretly paid off Trump's secret lover - at a time when AT&T was trying to get its Time Warner merger past the Trump administration's Justice Department and was trying to get net neutrality regulations repealed. I think AT&T are in deep ****.

Novartis is Swiss, not sure if being foreign helps or hinders their position. I haven't seen any explanation for why they made 4 payments of just under $100k. These payments weren't monthly instalments, they were made several days apart. Maybe $99k gets round some internal control their finance department has in place?

Trump has told so many lies about Stormy that we don't know how/if he reimbursed Cohen. Maybe these lies were forced upon him, because he contributed nothing to the $130,000 settlement and just used this bribe money to repay Cohen. Maybe there was money that flowed from the Essential bank account to Trump or another member of his crime family.

AT&T's best approach is to come clean. I'm sure that's what their lawyers are recommending. The biggest telecoms company in the world can't be seen to be hiding this sort of crap, even if what they did was technically legal. They should disclose all the paperwork and emails they received - invoices, who personally performed the "insight" work, who provided the bank account details to pay, who authorised it at their end. To be part of a cover up would be a bad mistake for a company that relies so much on regulation, lobbying and political influence.

This is all without getting into the Russian link.
Originally Posted by AMS
Originally Posted by liverpoolmiss
Novartis new statement: they paid $1.2m in total. They got nothing in return. Well, one meeting with the great Michael Cohen himself.

Quote:
Novartis said it believed Cohen "could advise the company as to how the Trump administration might approach certain U.S. health-care policy matters, including the Affordable Care Act."

But just a month after signing the deal, Novartis executives had their first meeting with Cohen, and afterward "determined that Michael Cohen and Essentials Consultants would be unable to provide the services that Novartis had anticipated."

But Novartis kept paying Cohen.

"As the contract, unfortunately, could only be terminated for cause, payments continued to be made until the contract expired by its own terms in February 2018," Novartis said.

That means that Cohen was paid up to $1.2 million for his work.
Looks like Novartis would rather pretend they're incompetent morons than bribing crooks. Sadly, this just makes them look like both.
cough due diligence cough.

No way that a company like Novartis would piss away that sort of money on a single "consultant" quite so naively.
Also, apparently the Russian company paying Cohen bought a whole bunch of "alt-right" related domain names.


ETA:

Originally Posted by liverpoolmiss
If you were a Korean company and wanted advice on US GAAP (the US technical accounting standards) would you go to:

1) KPMG, Ernst & Young, PWC, someone like that?

2) Essentials Consultants, a recently established company run entirely by a sleazy lawyer with no knowledge of accounting?

Korea Aerospace went with (2) and paid $150,000. Maybe it was for great technical accounting advice. Maybe it was because Korea Aerospace Industries was trying to sell its planes in the US. Who could possibly know.

Excluding the deal for Elliot Broidy and his Playboy model settlement, the known slush-fund payers via the First Republic account are:

Russian oligarchs (channelled via Vekselberg) $500,000 - no confirmation yet
Novartis $400,000 - they've confirmed they paid
AT&T $200,000 - they've confirmed they paid
Korea Aerospace $150,000 - they've confirmed they paid

Known payments out are:

Stormy Daniels - $130,000
Luxuries for Cohen like Mercedes-Benz, private club membership - various relatively small amounts

Where did the rest of the money go? I bet Mueller knows.
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Old 9th May 2018, 01:00 PM   #32
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What I don't get is how TBD is still defending Donald Trump and attacking Avenatti? This latest information shows money flowing into a shell company from a pharmaceutical company and a Russian oligarch with close ties to Putin that paid off Daniels, paid a woman for an abortion who was impregnated by Broidy/Trump.

Also, does anyone know if Trump's doorman was paid off by Cohen or American Media?
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Old 9th May 2018, 01:02 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Originally Posted by portlandatheist View Post
Since Cohen isn't registered as a lobbyist, wouldn't it be illegal not just for him, but for AT&T to hire him in such a capacity. Their email said he was a "consultant" and that it wasn't for lobbying but that is absurd.
According to the LA Times:

Quote:
Cohen wouldn't have had to register as a lobbyist unless he spent 20% of the time he devoted to AT&T on efforts to influence the federal government while having at least two contacts with one or more high-ranking government officials, including members of Congress, their staff or administration officials.

Well, I expect he meets the 'contact' standard without too much trouble.

Not sure what "20% of the time he devoted to AT&T" would mean.

If he spent a couple of hours on it, and talked to Trump about it for 30 minutes, would that count?
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Old 9th May 2018, 01:12 PM   #34
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Gotta be honest, if I am Mueller, I might make a quick visit to Avenatti's office and tell him to tone down the thirsty grandstanding or perhaps they will have to take a deep dive into exactly where he got his information and under what circumstances.

Having this knucklehead running around like a self appointed prosecutor is not going to help Mueller's job.

If I am working for Cohen? I start asking who is leaking to Thirsty.
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Old 9th May 2018, 01:22 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/994156631440216069





Again from Badscience:

Liverpoolmiss has also pointed out that Muller interviewed Novartis about their links to Cohen and Essential in November - so we know he's ahead of the curve on this.





Also, apparently the Russian company paying Cohen bought a whole bunch of "alt-right" related domain names.


ETA:
And Cohen wasn't registered as a foreign agent either. I can't wait for him to be arrested.
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Old 9th May 2018, 01:24 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Gotta be honest, if I am Mueller, I might make a quick visit to Avenatti's office and tell him to tone down the thirsty grandstanding or perhaps they will have to take a deep dive into exactly where he got his information and under what circumstances.

Having this knucklehead running around like a self appointed prosecutor is not going to help Mueller's job.

If I am working for Cohen? I start asking who is leaking to Thirsty.
Maybe Avenatti was just doing the obvious and asking for the details of the entity that paid his client. The fact that it was a shell company with no obvious ties to Trump would probably be a bit of a red flag to someone who had read of Trump's money laundering.

It doesn't need links, just someone with a reasonable level of competence and a case to subonea the details of the shell company that paid off his client.

I wouldn't be surprised if it transpires that Stormy Daniels' first lawyer had a conflict of interest.



As has been said elsewhere - it is surprising that Cohen hadn't set up alternative shell companies but seemed to have been lazy/greedy/stupid and used one entity for a lot of slush funding.
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Old 9th May 2018, 01:28 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
As has been said elsewhere - it is surprising that Cohen hadn't set up alternative shell companies but seemed to have been lazy/greedy/stupid and used one entity for a lot of slush funding.
We don't actually know that he didn't, of course; just that he should have at least had a couple more.
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Old 9th May 2018, 01:29 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post


I literally just explained "the chart shows withdrawals through September 2017 that SUBSTANTIALLY exceed the deposits as of September."

Clearly there is information missing, this is obvious.
Did you read the article, or just look at the picture?
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Old 9th May 2018, 01:40 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Maybe Avenatti was just doing the obvious and asking for the details of the entity that paid his client. The fact that it was a shell company with no obvious ties to Trump would probably be a bit of a red flag to someone who had read of Trump's money laundering.

It doesn't need links, just someone with a reasonable level of competence and a case to subonea the details of the shell company that paid off his client.

I wouldn't be surprised if it transpires that Stormy Daniels' first lawyer had a conflict of interest.

As has been said elsewhere - it is surprising that Cohen hadn't set up alternative shell companies but seemed to have been lazy/greedy/stupid and used one entity for a lot of slush funding.
His client signed the contract with the entity and Thirsty clearly did not at all use a subpoena to get the documents.

he was asked point blank where he got them and said it was "work product" which is bull **** if they were stolen and leaked to him.
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Old 9th May 2018, 01:40 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
If I am working for Cohen? I start asking who is leaking to Thirsty.
How long will it take for the press to get hold of the email that is sent around the administration asking about leaks related to Cohen?

Maybe it would be easier if I just set an over/under at 32 minutes.
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