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Old 14th May 2018, 09:19 AM   #121
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https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/sta...09747278069760

Quote:
Matt Schlapp says that "Kelly Sadler is a little bit of a victim here." (via CNN)
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Old 14th May 2018, 09:58 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
If I canít prove that 100% of leftists hate the military then we need to ignore what the left has said and done, even done to John McCain?
If you actually wanted to have a productive discussion, you could have opened up a thread on what percentage of leftists hate the military vs. what percentage or right wingers do. Instead we get illogical BS that fails to make a case.

But in order to do that, you have to think in a way that does not assume you already know the answer and be open to learning something new. If you don't want your world view challenged, then you are in the wrong place.
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Old 14th May 2018, 10:15 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by Doubt View Post
If you actually wanted to have a productive discussion, you could have opened up a thread on what percentage of leftists hate the military vs. what percentage or right wingers do. Instead we get illogical BS that fails to make a case.

But in order to do that, you have to think in a way that does not assume you already know the answer and be open to learning something new. If you don't want your world view challenged, then you are in the wrong place.
Instead of complaining the discussion isnít going your way, go ahead and put up the right wingers who hate the military.
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Old 14th May 2018, 10:39 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
The difference is that we don't need to abide by logger's various "theories". We do need to abide by what happens in the US government.

"[T]he despicable things the current US administration is saying" are frequently the source of logger's "theories".

It verges on a distinction without a difference. Our "current administration" operates with the same sort of standards as logger.

Possibly Probably less sincere, though.
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Old 14th May 2018, 10:46 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Instead of complaining the discussion isnít going your way, go ahead and put up the right wingers who hate the military.
We can start with Trump - who hates them so much that he lies to their spouses (first pay raise in 10 years), besmirches Gold Star families, and their own contributions (I like people who didn't get captured).

The fish rots from the head.

We can also cite Reagan, who used the current head of the NRA to illegally sell weapons to terrorists so that he could fund other terrorists.
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Old 14th May 2018, 11:00 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
We can start with Trump - who hates them so much that he lies to their spouses (first pay raise in 10 years), besmirches Gold Star families, and their own contributions (I like people who didn't get captured).

The fish rots from the head.

We can also cite Reagan, who used the current head of the NRA to illegally sell weapons to terrorists so that he could fund other terrorists.
There's also the current crop who have been attacking McCain personally.
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Old 14th May 2018, 11:08 AM   #127
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How about all the people who use veterans as convenient excuses for why we don't have resources to help other groups, then continue to do nothing for the veterans once the other groups are gone?
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Old 14th May 2018, 11:29 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Instead of complaining the discussion isn’t going your way, go ahead and put up the right wingers who hate the military.
The discussion went my way. I won. I made no argument regarding right wingers that hate the military. Do you often have this much trouble paying attention?
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Old 14th May 2018, 11:49 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Instead of complaining the discussion isnít going your way, go ahead and put up the right wingers who hate the military.
Donald Trump. I can't believe this is a left/right issue. Donald Trump seriously maligned a true military hero and I don't throw that word out willy nilly-McCain was given the option to leave Hanoi Hilton because of his military family and he refused to go unless everyone went with him. Let me put that in there again. He was given a chance to leave that hell hole and refused because of the other men that would be left behind.
McCain's politics aside (and I don't agree with a lot of it) he is a genuine hero that deserves our respect and when Donald Trump says that hateful, venomous bile it really gets under my skin.
So is Donald Trump a left wing, military spittin' fool or is he just a fool?
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Old 14th May 2018, 12:06 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Scootch View Post
Donald Trump. I can't believe this is a left/right issue. Donald Trump seriously maligned a true military hero and I don't throw that word out willy nilly-McCain was given the option to leave Hanoi Hilton because of his military family and he refused to go unless everyone went with him. Let me put that in there again. He was given a chance to leave that hell hole and refused because of the other men that would be left behind.
McCain's politics aside (and I don't agree with a lot of it) he is a genuine hero that deserves our respect and when Donald Trump says that hateful, venomous bile it really gets under my skin.
So is Donald Trump a left wing, military spittin' fool or is he just a fool?
Just a fool, same as McCain. But both have sure done a lot to advance my causes. Iíd take them over a leftist any day.
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Old 14th May 2018, 12:07 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Doubt View Post
The discussion went my way. I won. I made no argument regarding right wingers that hate the military. Do you often have this much trouble paying attention?
Correct, you don’t make any argument except to complain about my assertion, but you do seem to be having a problem with admitting what the left thinks about our military.

Last edited by logger; 14th May 2018 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 14th May 2018, 12:27 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Just a fool, same as McCain. But both have sure done a lot to advance my causes. Iíd take them over a leftist any day.
Here it is. He is okay with the right disparaging military heroes, he just doesn't like it when the left does it. So as long as you think like Logger, it is okay to spit on the military.

And McCain and Trump are not the same in any way, not in any way.
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Old 14th May 2018, 12:51 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Correct, you donít make any argument except to complain about my assertion, but you do seem to be having a problem with admitting what the left thinks about our military.
Incorrect again on your part.

1.) My argument was that you are wrong and I proved it.
2.) The left is not a monolithic entity. I could wade into that issue but choose to confine my argument to one simple point knowing you don't have a valid argument to start with. You cannot build a good house on a bad foundation. You started with an invalid premises and only got worse from there. Once you learn that you might become an effective advocate for your "side".
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Old 14th May 2018, 12:56 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Doubt View Post
Incorrect again on your part.

1.) My argument was that you are wrong and I proved it.
2.) The left is not a monolithic entity. I could wade into that issue but choose to confine my argument to one simple point knowing you don't have a valid argument to start with. You cannot build a good house on a bad foundation. You started with an invalid premises and only got worse from there. Once you learn that you might become an effective advocate for your "side".
You seem to be assuming a desire that has not ever been evident.
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Old 14th May 2018, 01:50 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
We can also cite Reagan, who used the current head of the NRA to illegally sell weapons to terrorists so that he could fund other terrorists.

That is something that conservatives just seem to enjoy doing! Here's a photo of the current Danish PM posing with his Mujahedin friends back in the late 1980s. He's the one with the machine gun!
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Old 14th May 2018, 03:49 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by Scootch View Post
Here it is. He is okay with the right disparaging military heroes, he just doesn't like it when the left does it. So as long as you think like Logger, it is okay to spit on the military.

And McCain and Trump are not the same in any way, not in any way.
Not at all, I disagree with his rino politics, which Iíve said before. He is a war hero Trump was wrong.
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Old 14th May 2018, 03:50 PM   #137
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Al Frankenstein seems to think he wasn’t a war hero.

http://dailycaller.com/2018/05/14/al...cain-war-hero/

Last edited by logger; 14th May 2018 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 14th May 2018, 03:53 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by Doubt View Post
Incorrect again on your part.

1.) My argument was that you are wrong and I proved it.
2.) The left is not a monolithic entity. I could wade into that issue but choose to confine my argument to one simple point knowing you don't have a valid argument to start with. You cannot build a good house on a bad foundation. You started with an invalid premises and only got worse from there. Once you learn that you might become an effective advocate for your "side".
No you didnít prove it. The left certainly is a monolithic bunch of fools, and they donít respect our military. Quote after quote of them disparaging the military can be shown. Itís been that way for decades.
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Old 14th May 2018, 03:55 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
No you didnít prove it. The left certainly is a monolithic bunch of fools, and they donít respect our military. Quote after quote of them disparaging the military can be shown. Itís been that way for decades.
Do you want me to find quotes of left-wingers praising the military? Cause I can find them for you if you really want. And they're just as valid criticisms.
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Old 14th May 2018, 04:01 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
Do you want me to find quotes of left-wingers praising the military? Cause I can find them for you if you really want. And they're just as valid criticisms.
Wouldnít it be better to find right wingers criticising the military?
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Old 14th May 2018, 04:11 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Al Frankenstein seem to think he wasnít a war hero.

http://dailycaller.com/2018/05/14/al...cain-war-hero/
It seems you have something in common with Al Franken (I am sure he would be more alarmed at that than you though). Maybe you can organize a spit party with Trump and Franken.
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Old 14th May 2018, 04:21 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by Scootch View Post
It seems you have something in common with Al Franken (I am sure he would be more alarmed at that than you though). Maybe you can organize a spit party with Trump and Franken.
Oh, another personal attack. Thankfully itís not about me.

How about commenting on idiot Frankens words then commenting on me?
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Old 14th May 2018, 05:58 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
We can also cite Reagan, who used the current head of the NRA to illegally sell weapons to terrorists so that he could fund other terrorists.
Why I never liked North, and am ambivalent about Reagan.
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Old 14th May 2018, 06:10 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
Do you want me to find quotes of left-wingers praising the military? Cause I can find them for you if you really want. And they're just as valid criticisms.
No true socialist would praise the military. No true socialist would even pledge allegiance to his country. Oh wait...
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Old 14th May 2018, 07:57 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
A bit of critical thinking would show you...
Ha ha ha!
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Old 14th May 2018, 08:01 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Wouldnít it be better to find right wingers criticising the military?
Well, Bob did upthread.
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Old 14th May 2018, 08:19 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
No you didnít prove it. The left certainly is a monolithic bunch of fools, and they donít respect our military. Quote after quote of them disparaging the military can be shown. Itís been that way for decades.
ďNo you didnít prove it,Ē followed by unproven crayon scribbles. Comedy gold.
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Old 14th May 2018, 09:21 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Why I never liked North, and am ambivalent about Reagan.
I'm not. I was in Nicaragua when Somoza was living in his bunker and the Contras were terrorizing the peasant population with horrendous tactics they learned from The School of the Americas.

I wasn't there long, I was too afraid. I had no idea what I'd stumbled into, just a traveling young 20-something out to see the world.

The Contras were not Freedom Fighters. Reagan and North were war criminals.
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Old 15th May 2018, 01:20 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
The left certainly is a monolithic bunch of fools, and they donít respect our military.
...

Originally Posted by logger View Post
I donít make absolutist claims on anything
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Old 15th May 2018, 05:04 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
No you didnít prove it. The left certainly is a monolithic bunch of fools, and they donít respect our military. Quote after quote of them disparaging the military can be shown. Itís been that way for decades.
and there can be shown hundreds of examples of the right saying how much they respect and love the military while simultaneously inadequately funding both the military and veterans care, while relying on the skill and professionalism of those members to figure out a way to make it work.

Hells, the contempt shown to the US military by the "right" started right after the Revolution when Congress decided to not follow through on back pay for returning soldiers. It was a perfunctory "Thank you for your service," and a "By the way, we've assessed the back taxes accrued during your period of service and your farm should just about cover it. You and your family need to leave." Unless of course, you consider the Founding Fathers to be a bunch of lefties....
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Old 15th May 2018, 05:23 AM   #151
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This could all become a bit meta, given that many thousands of leftists (by logger's metric) are actually serving in the military. I guess they could all have issues with self-loathing, but it seems unlikely.
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Old 15th May 2018, 06:16 AM   #152
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Expanding on what Squeegee pointed out. All quotes from Logger

Quote:
The left certainly is a monolithic bunch of fools, and they donít respect our military
Quote:
I donít make absolutist claims on anything
Quote:
When I say liberals or the left in general a reasonable person can understand Iím not talking about every last one. Itís a game to think people argue that way. Next time Iíll add in the word ďmanyĒ so youíll be able to understand.
First and third quotes are mutually exclusive. Second quote directly conflicts with the first.

This is what happens when you don't think through empty rhetoric and leave a record behind of what you said.
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Old 15th May 2018, 06:33 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by Worm View Post
This could all become a bit meta, given that many thousands of leftists (by logger's metric) are actually serving in the military. I guess they could all have issues with self-loathing, but it seems unlikely.
Probably. I'm a lefty by logger's standards and have served for 32 years so far.

I'd rather have a left leaning government that adequately funds and equips the military for the tasks that it expects them to do, than any number of right wingers going decrying the "theft of their $" to pay for government services like the military.

45's big plan to increase spending on the military while simultaneously cutting the tax base is frankly stupid. To do that while engaging in diplomacy that is best described as "Bully tactics" is compounding the stupidity.

We can use the withdrawal from the Iran Deal as an example. 45 is claiming that Iran is cheating on the deal - based on documents that were drafted years before the deal came into effect. Meanwhile, the inspection agency is going, "No, Iran is compliant", your allies are going "What are you talking about - Iran is compliant". Followed by The US is withdrawing from the deal.

Now, as a mere Chief Warrant Officer I may not have the great insights into the high strategy, but even a Gunner can see that getting rid of a deal that places limits on a nation's ability to refine uranium, allows for international monitoring of nuclear sites (and it's not like these can be hidden in basement of run-down tenement) and gives incentives for the complying nation and putting in place a system that gives no ability to restrict such development (and incentivizes Iran to develop its own capability because, ***** it - at this point why not?) displays a lack of foresight usually only seen in people with no concept of object permanence.

If Trump want to be able to threaten the use of the military stick his ability to project force is limited by the potential lack of neighbouring nations that may be willing to allow him to use their national territory as a staging area and are not in a location where they may be threatened by non-friendly nations.

Essentially, the military may get to be the people sent in to clean up a mess that is frankly going to be much more challenging than the years long debacle that Iraq and Afghanistan have been.
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Old 15th May 2018, 09:10 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
At least with McCain the left isnít still spitting on our soldiers and POWs. The hypocrisy of the left knows no bounds.
Straight out of the Rush Limbaugh playbook. "The left" is assigned collective guilt for any crazy or despicable act or statement made by any person arbitrarily identified as a member.
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Old 15th May 2018, 09:37 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
Straight out of the Rush Limbaugh playbook. "The left" is assigned collective guilt for any crazy or despicable act or statement made by any person arbitrarily identified as a member.
No, it's totally the same. Some radical leftist anti-war fringe, which held no elected positions or made any real policy, spat on soldiers back in the 60's. That's totally the same as the POTUS (and head of the Republican political machine) publicly attacking the conduct of a POW while in captivity, using the apparatus of the white house to do so with not so much as a wrist slap from his "patriotic" colleagues in Congress.

If you hit your head hard, squint your eyes, and turn the lights off, you will see it's the same thing.
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Old 15th May 2018, 09:45 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by Doubt View Post


This is what happens when you don't think through empty rhetoric and leave a record behind of what you said.
Not at all, I do it on purpose because people already understand when I talk about the left or democrats or any group, itís obvious Iím not saying 100% of them. Youíre just using a tactic to dodge what the left is clearly guilty of. Look how squeegee has been following me around thinking Iím making an absolutist claim now on everything I post. Itís really a lot of fun.

Care to admit now the left has some serious problems with our military, many who express absolute hatred?
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Old 15th May 2018, 09:46 AM   #157
ponderingturtle
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
No, it's totally the same. Some radical leftist anti-war fringe, which held no elected positions or made any real policy, spat on soldiers back in the 60's. That's totally the same as the POTUS (and head of the Republican political machine) publicly attacking the conduct of a POW while in captivity, using the apparatus of the white house to do so with not so much as a wrist slap from his "patriotic" colleagues in Congress.

If you hit your head hard, squint your eyes, and turn the lights off, you will see it's the same thing.
Look Trump was always clear about how he felt about soldiers who get captured. This was broadly popular and not a big deal in republican circles. Why should this new thing be shocking? Service means nothing to republicans when it comes to crushing all who stand before them.
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Old 15th May 2018, 09:46 AM   #158
Shalamar
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
No, it's totally the same. Some radical leftist anti-war fringe, which held no elected positions or made any real policy, spat on soldiers back in the 60's. That's totally the same as the POTUS (and head of the Republican political machine) publicly attacking the conduct of a POW while in captivity, using the apparatus of the white house to do so with not so much as a wrist slap from his "patriotic" colleagues in Congress.

If you hit your head hard, squint your eyes, and turn the lights off, you will see it's the same thing.
It's only bad if a leftist/lib/porg/demoncrap does it.
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Old 15th May 2018, 09:49 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
and there can be shown hundreds of examples of the right saying how much they respect and love the military while simultaneously inadequately funding both the military and veterans care, while relying on the skill and professionalism of those members to figure out a way to make it work.
Agreed! McCain should get some of the blame.
Quote:
Hells, the contempt shown to the US military by the "right" started right after the Revolution when Congress decided to not follow through on back pay for returning soldiers. It was a perfunctory "Thank you for your service," and a "By the way, we've assessed the back taxes accrued during your period of service and your farm should just about cover it. You and your family need to leave." Unless of course, you consider the Founding Fathers to be a bunch of lefties....
Wrong, contempt is certainly the wrong word, carelessness is more appropriate. All military personel should be well taken care of, even for life if they see combat, certainly if they are injured.
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Old 15th May 2018, 09:56 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Some radical leftist anti-war fringe, which held no elected positions or made any real policy, spat on soldiers back in the 60's.
Actually we're yet to see any evidence of that. Logger has been suspiciously unforthcoming on the subject.
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