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Old 12th March 2019, 06:03 PM   #1
wasapi
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A friend of 44 yrs is dying. As a believer, he said he will visit me.

So, this is an odd situation. A friend of 44yrs is dying. I met him when we were in our 20's. He was a wild, well educated, silly gay man who had always been out as gay, with his parents blessings. He was wealthy and traveled well into his late 70's. Always a quick wit. We spent most of our time laughing. He was an atheist for the first several years that I knew him.

Then, he turned 70, and about that time became interested in NDE's. Soon it was mediums and the after life. I told him about cold/warm/hot reading, but besides, we always had a lot to talk about. Daily on the phone for 24 years.

He probably will not make it more then a few days. He wants to die. I saw him yesterday and told him goodbye. He told me he would make contact with me after he dies.


Of course I said, "OK". Has anyone had an experience like this?
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Old 12th March 2019, 07:03 PM   #2
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Sorry for what you are losing. You did the right thing. There is nothing but hope, I say let the man have it.

No, I've not been in that situation.
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Old 12th March 2019, 07:05 PM   #3
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That's pretty sad. Dying, and being aware of it, is a pretty devastating experience.

My mother contacted me after she died. Of course, by objective standards, pulse, respiration, body temperature, etc; she was still alive, but was sure she had died. She actually died a few days later.
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Old 12th March 2019, 07:15 PM   #4
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wasapi, out of compassion, kindness, and 44 years of friendship, there was absolutely no other response you could have made.


Sympathy to you on the loss of your friend.
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Old 12th March 2019, 07:30 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
He probably will not make it more then a few days. He wants to die. I saw him yesterday and told him goodbye. He told me he would make contact with me after he dies.


Of course I said, "OK". Has anyone had an experience like this?

If it's comforting to him, I see no reason to do anything but agree with him.
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Old 12th March 2019, 10:06 PM   #6
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Set it all up with the Randi people so you can get $1 million bucks.
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Old 12th March 2019, 10:28 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Set it all up with the Randi people so you can get $1 million bucks.

The MDC has not been operative for several years.
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Old 13th March 2019, 01:45 AM   #8
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Didn't Conan Doyle say the same thing?
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Old 13th March 2019, 02:07 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
He probably will not make it more then a few days. He wants to die. I saw him yesterday and told him goodbye. He told me he would make contact with me after he dies.


Of course I said, "OK".
Quite right too; he's actually going about the process of rational skepticism in an admirable way. He's proposed an experiment and specified a desired outcome, and he's prepared to test his hypothesis that he will still have some form of consciousness after his physical death. I think his experiment will fail, but I applaud him for trying. And, if it helps him have a sense of purpose in his last few days, I can't see any reason why you shouldn't discuss what form his communication might take, and how you might know for certain if it succeeds. I haven't been in a similar situation, but I'd hope if I am that I'd do the same thing you have.

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Old 13th March 2019, 07:43 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
So, this is an odd situation. A friend of 44yrs is dying. I met him when we were in our 20's. He was a wild, well educated, silly gay man who had always been out as gay, with his parents blessings. He was wealthy and traveled well into his late 70's. Always a quick wit. We spent most of our time laughing. He was an atheist for the first several years that I knew him.

Then, he turned 70, and about that time became interested in NDE's. Soon it was mediums and the after life. I told him about cold/warm/hot reading, but besides, we always had a lot to talk about. Daily on the phone for 24 years.

He probably will not make it more then a few days. He wants to die. I saw him yesterday and told him goodbye. He told me he would make contact with me after he dies.


Of course I said, "OK". Has anyone had an experience like this?
Well, it is quite normal for those facing the end of a long life to suddenly become rather 'wooish' (if there is such a word).

However, you did the right thing by humoring him. After all, he already has plenty to contend with so dealing with a non-woo friend would simply add to his consternation.

Also, sorry for you loss.

As for me, I have personally dealt with this sort of situation with my one grandmother who hung on until she was 94.
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Old 13th March 2019, 08:30 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
So, this is an odd situation. A friend of 44yrs is dying. I met him when we were in our 20's. He was a wild, well educated, silly gay man who had always been out as gay, with his parents blessings. He was wealthy and traveled well into his late 70's. Always a quick wit. We spent most of our time laughing. He was an atheist for the first several years that I knew him.

Then, he turned 70, and about that time became interested in NDE's. Soon it was mediums and the after life. I told him about cold/warm/hot reading, but besides, we always had a lot to talk about. Daily on the phone for 24 years.

He probably will not make it more then a few days. He wants to die. I saw him yesterday and told him goodbye. He told me he would make contact with me after he dies.


Of course I said, "OK". Has anyone had an experience like this?
How does he propose to contact you after he dies? It will not normally be possible for him to speak to you unless you regularly attend spiritualist church services for as long as it takes for him to get a message through. You could of course pay mediums for private sittings to try and speed the process up.

My grandmother was a believer and I was not at the time she was alive. I scoffed at her beliefs, and said "what will you do if you live after death". She said "I will watch over you darling" She was as good as her word as I had many messages from her in spiritualist churches over several years.
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Old 13th March 2019, 08:38 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
How does he propose to contact you after he dies? It will not normally be possible for him to speak to you unless you regularly attend spiritualist church services for as long as it takes for him to get a message through. You could of course pay mediums for private sittings to try and speed the process up.

My grandmother was a believer and I was not at the time she was alive. I scoffed at her beliefs, and said "what will you do if you live after death". She said "I will watch over you darling" She was as good as her word as I had many messages from her in spiritualist churches over several years.
What is so special about a church? Why can't the spirits just talk to us, without the intervention of priests and mediums?
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Old 13th March 2019, 08:47 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
What is so special about a church? Why can't the spirits just talk to us, without the intervention of priests and mediums?
Most people are not psychic. They are protected from psychic perceptions by their healthy auras. But some people can see or hear or feel spirits, and some of them become mediums to help others and give evidence of survival.
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Old 13th March 2019, 09:04 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Didn't Conan Doyle say the same thing?
Houdini, too
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Old 13th March 2019, 09:27 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
How does he propose to contact you after he dies? It will not normally be possible for him to speak to you unless you regularly attend spiritualist church services for as long as it takes for him to get a message through. You could of course pay mediums for private sittings to try and speed the process up.

My grandmother was a believer and I was not at the time she was alive. I scoffed at her beliefs, and said "what will you do if you live after death". She said "I will watch over you darling" She was as good as her word as I had many messages from her in spiritualist churches over several years.
Ummmm ...

In the first place, it is not very classy, or even practical, to pester a dying man about the details of his post-death communication methodology.

In the second place, are you actually claiming that you can talk to dead people?
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Old 13th March 2019, 09:46 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
How does he propose to contact you after he dies? It will not normally be possible for him to speak to you unless you regularly attend spiritualist church services for as long as it takes for him to get a message through. You could of course pay mediums for private sittings to try and speed the process up.

My grandmother was a believer and I was not at the time she was alive. I scoffed at her beliefs, and said "what will you do if you live after death". She said "I will watch over you darling" She was as good as her word as I had many messages from her in spiritualist churches over several years.
When he first started as a believer, he talked about it now and then, always in a laughing way. For example, knowing of my phobia about spiders, he would tell me that if he died first, expect to see them everywhere. Big ones. Hairy ones.

But know. I won't be looking for pennies or other silly things, I don't expect large spiders to appear, and I won't be in need of a medium.
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Old 13th March 2019, 10:13 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
When he first started as a believer, he talked about it now and then, always in a laughing way. For example, knowing of my phobia about spiders, he would tell me that if he died first, expect to see them everywhere. Big ones. Hairy ones.

But know. I won't be looking for pennies or other silly things, I don't expect large spiders to appear, and I won't be in need of a medium.
Some mediums claim to be able to talk directly to spirits, and the spirits can tell the medium what to say to you to give evidence of their survival. If you don't go to a medium I don't see it being very likely you will hear from your friend after he dies.
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Old 13th March 2019, 10:16 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post


In the second place, are you actually claiming that you can talk to dead people?
If you want an answer to that question, ask me again on my thread, 'Scorpions spiritualism'
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Old 13th March 2019, 10:32 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Some mediums claim to be able to talk directly to spirits, and the spirits can tell the medium what to say to you to give evidence of their survival. If you don't go to a medium I don't see it being very likely you will hear from your friend after he dies.
I can live with that.
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Old 13th March 2019, 11:15 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
If you want an answer to that question, ask me again on my thread, 'Scorpions spiritualism'
I just did ask you in the thread you referred to.

Thanks much.
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Old 13th March 2019, 12:05 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
So, this is an odd situation. A friend of 44yrs is dying. I met him when we were in our 20's. He was a wild, well educated, silly gay man who had always been out as gay, with his parents blessings. He was wealthy and traveled well into his late 70's. Always a quick wit. We spent most of our time laughing. He was an atheist for the first several years that I knew him.

Then, he turned 70, and about that time became interested in NDE's. Soon it was mediums and the after life. I told him about cold/warm/hot reading, but besides, we always had a lot to talk about. Daily on the phone for 24 years.

He probably will not make it more then a few days. He wants to die. I saw him yesterday and told him goodbye. He told me he would make contact with me after he dies.


Of course I said, "OK". Has anyone had an experience like this?
I started a thread last July when I lost my drummer.

Our guitarist and I have a proof word for him to contact us with from the other side.

No word yet.
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Old 13th March 2019, 02:19 PM   #22
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An old teacher of mine whom I kept i touch with was diagnosed with a terminal illness. Two of my classmates and I drove about a hundred miles to visit him in hospice and say goodbye. He cheerfully assured us, "You'll hear from me after I pass on."

He died a month later. And a few days after that I got a postcard with a tacky print of the pearly gates. The message was "Told you! Thanks for the visit." And he signed it with another little personal note. My two classmates got identical cards. One of us called the hospice and learned the professor had left dozens of these, one for everyone who had come to see him, even several for people who came when he was unresponsive. The nurse had addressed those and mailed the whole bunch the day the professor was cremated, as he had asked.

Not a dramatic from beyond the grave story, but I still have the card on my office wall, and after 10+ years I still miss him and his sense of humor.
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Old 13th March 2019, 02:39 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Spektator View Post
An old teacher of mine whom I kept i touch with was diagnosed with a terminal illness. Two of my classmates and I drove about a hundred miles to visit him in hospice and say goodbye. He cheerfully assured us, "You'll hear from me after I pass on."

He died a month later. And a few days after that I got a postcard with a tacky print of the pearly gates. The message was "Told you! Thanks for the visit." And he signed it with another little personal note. My two classmates got identical cards. One of us called the hospice and learned the professor had left dozens of these, one for everyone who had come to see him, even several for people who came when he was unresponsive. The nurse had addressed those and mailed the whole bunch the day the professor was cremated, as he had asked.

Not a dramatic from beyond the grave story, but I still have the card on my office wall, and after 10+ years I still miss him and his sense of humor.
That was a great story! Thanks. I love the humor of your friend, as I love Dans. As I stood there, telling him goodbye, he was funny right up to the end, asking me if I had noticed any spiders around. "No", I said. "You just wait", - his last words to me.
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Old 14th March 2019, 02:07 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
What is so special about a church? Why can't the spirits just talk to us, without the intervention of priests and mediums?
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Most people are not psychic. They are protected from psychic perceptions by their healthy auras. But some people can see or hear or feel spirits, and some of them become mediums to help others and give evidence of survival.
That actually raises more questions.
Are you saying that mediums are unhealthy, and somehow at risk?
Why don't mediums give evidence of survival, instead of saying things like 'you were painting a blue and white picture'?
Why are mediums so often wrong about survival or death?
What exactly is the physical, biological difference between a psychic and a non-psychic? What do most people lack?
Why don't the spirits expose fraudulent mediums?
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Old 14th March 2019, 02:21 AM   #25
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I think the inescapable conclusion is that the spirits are ass holes. Some medium is just trying to help some people and a bunch of spirits with nothing better to do are sitting around going "Give him a B... no, T... ha ha, he fell for that!"
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Old 14th March 2019, 04:44 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Some mediums claim to be able to talk directly to spirits, and the spirits can tell the medium what to say to you to give evidence of their survival. If you don't go to a medium I don't see it being very likely you will hear from your friend after he dies.

And if you do go to a medium, you will hear nothing but lies and/or delusions. Some of the lies, the very worst, will be pretend messages from beyond the grave, and you'll have to pay for them, too. It's really a lose-lose option.
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Old 14th March 2019, 05:26 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
And, if it helps him have a sense of purpose in his last few days, I can't see any reason why you shouldn't discuss what form his communication might take, and how you might know for certain if it succeeds. I haven't been in a similar situation, but I'd hope if I am that I'd do the same thing you have.

Dave


My Dad and I had a bit of a chuckle about this when he was in hospice care his last month. We figured it would be trivially easy to establish a protocol that would convince me he'd communicated from beyond, but we got bogged down on a double-blinded system that could convince someone else that he'd communicated. You'd really need some kind of disinterested third party to coordinate things for you, and that group would need to be above reproach, in the opinions of everyone on all sides of the issue. Which I just can't see happening.
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Old 14th March 2019, 10:34 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
That actually raises more questions.
Are you saying that mediums are unhealthy, and somehow at risk?
Why don't mediums give evidence of survival, instead of saying things like 'you were painting a blue and white picture'?
Why are mediums so often wrong about survival or death?
What exactly is the physical, biological difference between a psychic and a non-psychic? What do most people lack?
Why don't the spirits expose fraudulent mediums?
I moved your post to my thread , Scorpions spiritualism.
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Old 18th March 2019, 12:28 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by HansMustermann View Post
I think the inescapable conclusion is that the spirits are ass holes. Some medium is just trying to help some people and a bunch of spirits with nothing better to do are sitting around going "Give him a B... no, T... ha ha, he fell for that!"
Seems to me that if they were ass holes in life they would remain as such once they are dead. Seems the nice ones have better things to do than communicate with the living through interpreters.

I have always wondered how the psychics manage to find the correct spirits out of the billions that must be out there.
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Old 19th March 2019, 10:01 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
Of course I said, "OK". Has anyone had an experience like this?


My brother.

I always called him the lucky one. He got married in 1956, too young for Korea, too old for Vietnam, retired from Delta at age 55, got diagnosed with prostate cancer the same year but was busy building his retirement condo in Destin and postponed his treatment until it was too late. Died at 59.

Never went to church or took his family to it. Had no religion I ever knew of but at the time of death was married to his 2nd wife who apparently was religious and it was mentioned at his funeral service that he had ultimately "found Jesus" before the end, which probably wasn't hard to do given being surrounded by church people and doped up with morphine.

But my paternal grandmother was a root woman who didn't find her Jesus until she was well into her sixties. Before she died at 95, she spent her days sitting quietly on her deathbed, said she was just listening to the angels sing and it was so comforting. Though I believe it was all in her mind, I wouldn't try to dissuade her or anyone else from that experience.

Whatever gets one through the night is all right as long as they don't try to bring me with them.
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Old 20th March 2019, 02:52 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Some mediums claim to be able to talk directly to spirits, and the spirits can tell the medium what to say to you to give evidence of their survival. If you don't go to a medium I don't see it being very likely you will hear from your friend after he dies.

This just makes me wanna vomit.
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Old 20th March 2019, 03:17 PM   #32
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Last night, after Dan said clearly, "Well, time to go," he slipped into a coma. He is not expected to survive through the day.


No. I will not be seeking a "medium". I will simply enjoy all of the many things I remember about him, and appreciate the reminders.
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Old 20th March 2019, 10:02 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Spektator View Post
An old teacher of mine whom I kept i touch with was diagnosed with a terminal illness. Two of my classmates and I drove about a hundred miles to visit him in hospice and say goodbye. He cheerfully assured us, "You'll hear from me after I pass on."

He died a month later. And a few days after that I got a postcard with a tacky print of the pearly gates. The message was "Told you! Thanks for the visit." And he signed it with another little personal note. My two classmates got identical cards. One of us called the hospice and learned the professor had left dozens of these, one for everyone who had come to see him, even several for people who came when he was unresponsive. The nurse had addressed those and mailed the whole bunch the day the professor was cremated, as he had asked.

Not a dramatic from beyond the grave story, but I still have the card on my office wall, and after 10+ years I still miss him and his sense of humor.
I saw a similar story once; this fellow arranged with his barber to mail a bunch of postcards from Heaven. The postcards said something like "I asked the Big Guy if I could come down and mail these; he said 'Sure, but don't tarry there; I kinda stretched a point to let you in the first time. Don't press your luck.' "

ETA: Here's the story. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/22394223/n.../#.XJMcIJhKiM8
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Old 20th March 2019, 11:22 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
Last night, after Dan said clearly, "Well, time to go," he slipped into a coma. He is not expected to survive through the day.


No. I will not be seeking a "medium". I will simply enjoy all of the many things I remember about him, and appreciate the reminders.
Sorry for your loss, happy for your common sense.
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Old 23rd March 2019, 02:20 PM   #35
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Wasapi, my condolences.

Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
I saw a similar story once; this fellow arranged with his barber to mail a bunch of postcards from Heaven. The postcards said something like "I asked the Big Guy if I could come down and mail these; he said 'Sure, but don't tarry there; I kinda stretched a point to let you in the first time. Don't press your luck.' "

ETA: Here's the story. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/22394223/n.../#.XJMcIJhKiM8
How long ago was that? My teacher passed away around 2007-2008. I can't remember exactly when, and the postmark on the card isn't readable. I wonder if he got the idea from that. On the other hand, he was an old-time radio fan, and if I recall correctly, he told me once about the comedian Jack Benny, who prearranged (secretly) with a florist to deliver one red rose every day to his wife Mary after he passed on.
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Old 23rd March 2019, 07:02 PM   #36
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I only bring this up, NOT as proof of an after life, but as an interesting anecdote to illustrate how easily believers can see validation. Two things happened shortly after Dan died.

Last night I lit a memorial candle, just a life long ritual of mine since youth. It was dark, but the overhead ceiling chandelier with 3 new bulbs suddenly turned on and off, 3 separate times. The interesting thing to me is that this was a method he talked about many times when we spoke of his impending death. WOW. What a HIT - I could have thought. What I thought/believed, . . . later.

The second 'hit'. Dan was a luddite. Hated computers, cell phones, TV's, and even avoided call-waiting on his landline. He 'threatened' to come back and mess with my computer. Since, it has begun to suddenly shut completely off. When it is off it has suddenly turned on to a 'significant' song. Loud and creepy sounds are coming from it, louder then the speakers allow.


Cool, huh? To a believer. But I know what happened in both situations; The first with the 3 lights, 3 times? Though the wiring is good, it had rained earlier in the day. I believe moisture was the cause of the blinking on and off.


The computer? It is just about a year old. Well worn. I believe the battery is acting up and it needs service. A coincidence. No magical-only proof.


It really would have been nice, and I understand how a believer would jump on it as proof, instead of coincidence. Oh well.
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Old 23rd March 2019, 07:36 PM   #37
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When a skeptic friend of ours (the Seattle Skeptics) died suddenly of a heart attack, we all went to the memorial service a couple of members and his sister organized. The sister and her husband told us how they believed some coincidence finding the lawyer to settle the estate matters meant she was sure that was her brother acting from beyond the grave. We all just smiled.
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Old 23rd March 2019, 08:07 PM   #38
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Sorry for your loss. Dan sounded like a character although I suspect he enjoyed computers more than he let on. I've never had an issue with saying vague stuff like "let's hope so."
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Old 8th April 2019, 09:09 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
I only bring this up, NOT as proof of an after life, but as an interesting anecdote to illustrate how easily believers can see validation. Two things happened shortly after Dan died.

Last night I lit a memorial candle, just a life long ritual of mine since youth. It was dark, but the overhead ceiling chandelier with 3 new bulbs suddenly turned on and off, 3 separate times. The interesting thing to me is that this was a method he talked about many times when we spoke of his impending death. WOW. What a HIT - I could have thought. What I thought/believed, . . . later.

The second 'hit'. Dan was a luddite. Hated computers, cell phones, TV's, and even avoided call-waiting on his landline. He 'threatened' to come back and mess with my computer. Since, it has begun to suddenly shut completely off. When it is off it has suddenly turned on to a 'significant' song. Loud and creepy sounds are coming from it, louder then the speakers allow.


Cool, huh? To a believer. But I know what happened in both situations; The first with the 3 lights, 3 times? Though the wiring is good, it had rained earlier in the day. I believe moisture was the cause of the blinking on and off.


The computer? It is just about a year old. Well worn. I believe the battery is acting up and it needs service. A coincidence. No magical-only proof.


It really would have been nice, and I understand how a believer would jump on it as proof, instead of coincidence. Oh well.
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