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Old 8th March 2019, 07:55 PM   #161
JayUtah
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
This guy, Tyler Henry, projects an innocent, fresh-behind-the-ears, mama's boy. Yes, he lives with his mother. And yes, he came out as gay. Oh the shock. So over all, the kind of sweet, young, shy, fresh-face young man is someone to trust!
Or someone we want to please. Psychology teaches us that we curry more favor with beautiful people, regardless of the person's sex or our orientation. We want to please handsome men and beautiful women more than we do the less attractive. And a common way to curry favor is lenience, letting people get away with more.

And obviously he's a better television personality if he's young, handsome, and charming. That helps answer the question of why him and not some other equally talented person.

Part of the technique is to lower the subject's standards for a hit. You do this explicitly by emphasizing the inherent uncertainty of the exercise. But you can do it implicitly just by being someone the subject wants to please. That way, if you get reasonably close to a hit the subject gives a beautiful person the benefit of the doubt.
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Old 8th March 2019, 08:13 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by MEequalsIxR View Post
...and arranges a contract and a rate.
...and the rider. Those effing riders...
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Old 8th March 2019, 08:51 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
...and the rider. Those effing riders...
Or of you're a country and western fan and in keeping with the the theme ghost riders (in the sky).
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Old 9th March 2019, 12:10 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by Frank McLaughlin View Post
Why don't you educate me as to how a magical performer can duplicate what Henry does. I'd love to see that.
James Randi did it many times. Of the current crop of stage magicians who do it Derren Brown is the best known here in the UK.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derren_Brown

There are loads of clips of Brown duplicating mediumship on YouTube, pick any one.

ETA Derren Brown's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/OfficialDerren

and a 10 minute clip called Derren Brown Fools Psychic Readers & Talks To The Dead

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acnUkYNTk90

He gives three impressive readings at a spiritualist church and convinces the resident medium that he has a gift.

Here it is embedded so you don't even need to click on the link:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Last edited by Pixel42; 9th March 2019 at 01:53 AM.
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Old 9th March 2019, 05:10 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
James Randi did it many times. Of the current crop of stage magicians who do it Derren Brown is the best known here in the UK.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derren_Brown

There are loads of clips of Brown duplicating mediumship on YouTube, pick any one.

ETA Derren Brown's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/OfficialDerren

and a 10 minute clip called Derren Brown Fools Psychic Readers & Talks To The Dead

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acnUkYNTk90

He gives three impressive readings at a spiritualist church and convinces the resident medium that he has a gift.

Here it is embedded so you don't even need to click on the link:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
I've seen his live show, what he does in front of an audience, without the possibility of editing, is incredible. It's a very good thing he's an "honest liar".

Of course the same is true of most good stage magicians, but his particular interest in, and skill at that particular style of illusion would make him a particularly effective con man.
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Old 9th March 2019, 09:11 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
I've seen his live show, what he does in front of an audience, without the possibility of editing, is incredible. It's a very good thing he's an "honest liar".

Of course the same is true of most good stage magicians, but his particular interest in, and skill at that particular style of illusion would make him a particularly effective con man.
Not sure if you're referring to Randi or Brown, but I imagine the same accolade applies to both, though I've seen neither in person. Sadly, in his later television offerings, Brown has at least edged up to the line of shady actions or claims; some say he's crossed over it. It's not really in mediumship that he's done so but rather in claims about psychological manipulation.

Still, Brown remains among the best of all time, in my opinion, in regard to mentalism, and his books are certainly among the best out there.
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Old 9th March 2019, 11:24 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
James Randi did it many times. Of the current crop of stage magicians who do it Derren Brown is the best known here in the UK.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derren_Brown

There are loads of clips of Brown duplicating mediumship on YouTube, pick any one.

ETA Derren Brown's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/OfficialDerren

and a 10 minute clip called Derren Brown Fools Psychic Readers & Talks To The Dead

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acnUkYNTk90

He gives three impressive readings at a spiritualist church and convinces the resident medium that he has a gift.

Here it is embedded so you don't even need to click on the link:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
James Randi did it many times. Of the current crop of stage magicians who do it Derren Brown is the best known here in the UK.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derren_Brown

There are loads of clips of Brown duplicating mediumship on YouTube, pick any one.

ETA Derren Brown's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/OfficialDerren

and a 10 minute clip called Derren Brown Fools Psychic Readers & Talks To The Dead

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acnUkYNTk90

He gives three impressive readings at a spiritualist church and convinces the resident medium that he has a gift.

Here it is embedded so you don't even need to click on the link:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
I watched one video in its entirety--"Darren Brown fools readers and talks to the dead"--and if your point is there are magicians capable of fooling some people in an easy to work crowd environment while staring directly at the people and making a comical number of false starts, I already know this. (I did enjoy watching it, so thanks for sending).

There is a profound difference between what this magician did picking three receptive people out of a low sophistication crowd, never filling more than a few minutes of air time with each person...

....and what Henry did last night reading the Grammy-nominated Macklemore one-on-one with no false starts, his wife and manager watching and confirming on video from another room with no vague guesses (Brown: "you have lots of hats").

I play piano (I'd like to think) exceptionally well. A friend, a musician, came over, sat at my piano and began to noodle around. Noise really--he does not play. My dinner guests got excited. "How long have you been playing?" "You play piano too? Wow." (He's a guitarist).

The fact that some musically challenged friends of mine got fooled by crap noodling does not change the fact that I can play--and he can't. Henry can play; Brown can't. This might not be obvious in the 2 min:40 he spent with each guest before moving on, but it sure would be glaringly obvious during a longer time duration.

If Darren Brown is setting the bar, I need to re-evaluate Theresa Cupito. What she does is so much better than Brown, maybe she is real after all?
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Old 9th March 2019, 11:32 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by Frank McLaughlin View Post
three receptive people...
Assumes facts not in evidence.

Quote:
...a low sophistication crowd
Assumes facts not in evidence.'

Quote:
...never filling more than a few minutes of air time with each person...
<skip>
...Macklemore one-on-one with no false starts
Do you understand how editing works?

Quote:
...the Grammy-nominated...
Why does this matter?

Quote:
I play piano...
Irrelevant analogy. You seem fond of distraction.

Quote:
...maybe she is real after all?
Is your goal to prove that psychics are real, or to examine the evidence and come to an evidence-based conclusion either way?
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Old 9th March 2019, 11:37 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by Frank McLaughlin View Post
I watched one video in its entirety--"Darren Brown fools readers and talks to the dead"--and if your point is there are magicians capable of fooling some people in an easy to work crowd environment while staring directly at the people and making a comical number of false starts, I already know this. (I did enjoy watching it, so thanks for sending).

There is a profound difference between what this magician did picking three receptive people out of a low sophistication crowd, never filling more than a few minutes of air time with each person...

....and what Henry did last night reading the Grammy-nominated Macklemore one-on-one with no false starts, his wife and manager watching and confirming on video from another room with no vague guesses (Brown: "you have lots of hats").

I play piano (I'd like to think) exceptionally well. A friend, a musician, came over, sat at my piano and began to noodle around. Noise really--he does not play. My dinner guests got excited. "How long have you been playing?" "You play piano too? Wow." (He's a guitarist).

The fact that some musically challenged friends of mine got fooled by crap noodling does not change the fact that I can play--and he can't. Henry can play; Brown can't. This might not be obvious in the 2 min:40 he spent with each guest before moving on, but it sure would be glaringly obvious during a longer time duration.

If Darren Brown is setting the bar, I need to re-evaluate Theresa Cupito. What she does is so much better than Brown, maybe she is real after all?
Anyone can talk to dead people. The insurmountable problem is that dead people don't talk back, for the simple reason that dead people do not exist in any form.

Any person that claims to be a 'medium' is either a fraud or delusional.

Any person that believes that 'mediums' exist is delusional. Any person who thinks that a prerecorded and edited TV show provides proof that 'mediums' exist is somewhere beyond delusional.
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Old 9th March 2019, 11:49 AM   #170
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The only important difference between what Brown did in that video and what Henry does on TV is that Brown had no prior knowledge of the people he was reading, whilst Henry has plenty of notice of who it will be and, as they are celebrities, lots of information about them freely available. IOW Brown was limited to cold reading, unlike Henry who has plenty of opportunities for both warm and hot reading in addition. Yet Brown managed to produce readings every bit as accurate as most mediums, and considerably better than most. Anyone who tries to brush that performance off as unimpressive is so far down the rabbit hole of woo that they are probably beyond help.

I notice that he has still not responded to the challenge to post a link to the reading by Henry he considers the best evidence of genuine paranormal ability so the sceptics here can analyse and assess it. I wonder why?
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Old 9th March 2019, 12:11 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Any person that claims to be a 'medium' is either a fraud or delusional.
Prove it, or its just your biased opinion.
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Old 9th March 2019, 12:17 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Prove it, or its just your biased opinion.
It is indeed my opinion. Very much biased based on the fact that compelling evidence for the existence of 'mediums' is completely lacking.
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Old 9th March 2019, 12:34 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
It is indeed my opinion. Very much biased based on the fact that compelling evidence for the existence of 'mediums' is completely lacking.
If you had attended a spiritualist church for years, as I have, you might have got convincing messages. But then you would be in the same boat as me, because subjective personal evidence does not count.
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Old 9th March 2019, 12:38 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
It is indeed my opinion. Very much biased based on the fact that compelling evidence for the existence of 'mediums' is completely lacking.
Specifically, we have the category of mediums who admit they use the various well-known reading techniques. People in this category can generally provide convincing proof of this by explaining and demonstrating how the techniques work. Then there is the category of mediums who "work strong" and claim to be able to really talk to the dead. None in this category has been able to provide convincing proof that their results are achieved through actual necromancy. Most, in fact, eschew the opportunity to provide such proof, typically citing fears of unfair bias on the part of the examiners. So their claims are left unsubstantiated.

However, there is the subset of this category who have been proven convincingly to rely on the same reading techniques as the first category -- the honest entertainers. This is the troubling subcategory, because it informs how we should resolve the uncertainty in the working-strong group. Since some of them are known to be fake, and none of them is proven to be real, it seems the most reasonable position, given the current picture of evidence, to presume they are frauds until they can show evidence of authenticity. It's only a presumption, so it can be overturned by evidence. But the picture of evidence as it stands favors fraudulence over authenticity.
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Old 9th March 2019, 12:39 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
But then you would be in the same boat as me, because subjective personal evidence does not count.
No, it does not.
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Old 9th March 2019, 12:40 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
If you had attended a spiritualist church for years, as I have, you might have got convincing messages. But then you would be in the same boat as me, because subjective personal evidence does not count.
The difference is that Steve understands why anecdotal evidence "does not count" and consequently the sort of messages that convinced you would not have convinced him.
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Old 9th March 2019, 12:42 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
If you had attended a spiritualist church for years, as I have, you might have got convincing messages. But then you would be in the same boat as me, because subjective personal evidence does not count.
It is not possible to receive messages from things that do not exist. Subjective personal evidence has nothing to do with it. The basic premise of all churches is belief, without evidence, in messages from things that do not exist.
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Old 9th March 2019, 12:45 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
It is not possible to receive messages from things that do not exist. Subjective personal evidence has nothing to do with it. The basic premise of all churches is belief, without evidence, in messages from things that do not exist.
Yea! well its my experience that the spirit world does exist, and you just don't know anything about it.
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Old 9th March 2019, 12:50 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Yea! well its my experience that the spirit world does exist, and you just don't know anything about it.
But that's just an expression of personal belief stapled to a veiled insult.
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Old 9th March 2019, 12:52 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Yea! well its my experience that the spirit world does exist, and you just don't know anything about it.
No, it is your belief that the spirit world exists. Your actual experiences are likely the same as most people's. You just choose to interpret them to match your beliefs rather than to match reality.
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Old 9th March 2019, 12:53 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
But that's just an expression of personal belief stapled to a veiled insult.
Well Steve admits his beliefs are just his opinion too. In fact there may be personal evidence of the existence of the spirit world being given in spiritualist churches every week.
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Old 9th March 2019, 12:55 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
No, it is your belief that the spirit world exists. Your actual experiences are likely the same as most people's. You just choose to interpret them to match your beliefs rather than to match reality.
Ho ! do tell me about 'reality'. Because if you truly know what reality is you have me beaten. Why don't you start by defining it.
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Old 9th March 2019, 12:56 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Well Steve admits his beliefs are just his opinion too.
As I explained, a presumption based on a rational look at the evidence as it stands. You're just telling us what you believe and suggesting that everyone else is somehow hobbled by disbelief.

Quote:
In fact there may be personal evidence of the existence of the spirit world being given in spiritualist churches every week.
We don't care. You have a whole thread nextdoor where you can talk about your personal beliefs. I don't read it because I don't care what your personal beliefs are.

Do you have something to say about Tyler Henry? Is there something about your personal beliefs -- the only thing you seem able to talk about -- that sheds light on whether he is real or not?

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Old 9th March 2019, 01:00 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Well Steve admits his beliefs are just his opinion too. In fact there may be personal evidence of the existence of the spirit world being given in spiritualist churches every week.
Belief an opinion are two very different things. I have said nothing about having any beliefs. I have opinions that I have formed based on non-anecdotal evidence from studies on the topic.
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Old 9th March 2019, 01:09 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Ho ! do tell me about 'reality'. Because if you truly know what reality is you have me beaten. Why don't you start by defining it.
Ho, indeed. Enjoy your time down that dark rabbit hole. I will not be following.

Moving back somewhat toward the thread topic - would you agree that if every person is capable of interacting with the 'spirit world' (whatever that may be) then 'mediums' as discussed in this thread are irrelevant?
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Old 9th March 2019, 03:17 PM   #186
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I recognize you have many people to respond to whereas I generally just have you, so perhaps it's just that you haven't gotten to it, but did you not read my latest posts? Including my comments on the Macklemore reading? The one I talked about was a short bit that focused on a vague talk about Macklemore's dad wondering whether or not to pass on his business and then about someone "needing to remove something off the skin."

That bit was completely unconvincing.

Originally Posted by Frank McLaughlin View Post
I watched one video in its entirety--"Darren Brown fools readers and talks to the dead"--and if your point is there are magicians capable of fooling some people in an easy to work crowd environment while staring directly at the people and making a comical number of false starts, I already know this. (I did enjoy watching it, so thanks for sending).

There is a profound difference between what this magician did picking three receptive people out of a low sophistication crowd, never filling more than a few minutes of air time with each person...
Yes. The difference is that without any prep, the magicians did just as well.

Originally Posted by Frank McLaughlin
....and what Henry did last night reading the Grammy-nominated Macklemore one-on-one with no false starts, his wife and manager watching and confirming on video from another room with no vague guesses (Brown: "you have lots of hats").
"No false starts?" There were misses. See below. There was also prep time.

Originally Posted by Frank McLaughlin
I play piano (I'd like to think) exceptionally well. A friend, a musician, came over, sat at my piano and began to noodle around. Noise really--he does not play. My dinner guests got excited. "How long have you been playing?" "You play piano too? Wow." (He's a guitarist).

The fact that some musically challenged friends of mine got fooled by crap noodling does not change the fact that I can play--and he can't. Henry can play; Brown can't. This might not be obvious in the 2 min:40 he spent with each guest before moving on, but it sure would be glaringly obvious during a longer time duration.
This is more relevant than you think, but in exactly the opposite direction you think. You, as a musician, can tell when non-musicians give too much musical credit. By this standard, you must accept that magicians can tell when non-magicians are giving too much credit. You're giving too much credit. In this scenario you are your non-musical friends who have been fooled.

Originally Posted by Frank McLaughlin
If Darren Brown is setting the bar, I need to re-evaluate Theresa Cupito. What she does is so much better than Brown, maybe she is real after all?
Utter tripe. Pick one thing Caputo does that has comparable constraints and stands up to what Brown does. You can't.


This morning I found another bit of the Macklemore reading which turned out to be about Macklemore's friend Kevin who died from an overdose. It seems convincing at first, but only at first.

Some comments:

  • Macklemore specifically asks for messages from a friend who has passed
  • Henry starts with generalities, leaving plenty of room to maneuver in case the place he wants this to go isn't where Macklemore wants it to go. He talks about a young man with a "monkey on his back" and about being shown an IV except it might not be an IV it might just mean something put in the body but it might not be that it could be just "some sort of a substance."
  • Henry talks about a female presence next to the young man he has been seeing, but only says it is the young man's sister when Macklemore answers the question "Do you know if he had a sister or a girlfriend?" by saying "Sister."
  • Henry makes only two specific statements:
    (1) The man died of an overdose because he tolerance was lower than it had been since he had been sober for a while
    (2) In the months before his overdose someone triggered the overdose by making him think now would be a good time for "him to do this."

    For (1) above, Macklemore calls it a hit at the end because the friend had been sober for 7 days prior to the overdose. I'd call it a decent cold read hit but not a great one, though Macklemore thinks it was exceptional

    For (2) above, it was a complete miss, never confirmed, and entirely contradictory to #1 which indicates it was not intentional and his later specific comments in which the young man wants his sister to know it was not intentional. This isn't just a miss, this is absolutely perfect tactics in that the reading can go either route -- intentional or accidental overdose -- depending on the reaction of the subject, and Macklemore played right into it, completely missing this part and forgetting it was ever said.
  • Then, in response to Henry's question "Does that make some sense" Macklemore tells him about his childhood friend Kevin who fit the reading.
  • Note that it is only after Macklemore says the name "Kevin" that Henry goes into his longest bit about the young man wanting something that he didn't finish to be followed through on "that other people will do in his honor, in his legacy, that they will help create some things....my name's [meaning Kevin's] going to be attached to it even though I'm not physically here."
  • At the end, Macklemore says "I have a song named after him."

    When the reading is done, when Henry isn't there, Macklemore says "All of that was extremely specific. No Googling could have been done to get any of that information whatsoever."


Now let me tell you what I did yesterday before I watched either excerpt of the Macklemore reading. I started with Wikipedia. I used it to Google some people and items listed on the Wikipedia page. I made a list of topics I would try to steer a reading to if I were giving it. Below is the list, but note first that it is incomplete in that I didn't go down rabbit holes too far to find people or businesses (finding his father's business would have been child's play if I actually followed through) and second, if I were actually going to do the reading I would prepare it in much more detail and do much more research:

Just from Wikipedia
  • Heritage (Irish), Bill Haggerty and Julie Schott
  • Gateways for Incarcerated Youth
  • Recovery Fest
  • Dave Niehaus

From searches spawned by the Wikipedia entries
  • Kevin
  • We Day Movement
  • 30/30 Project
  • Half of Us Initiative

Now remember what Macklemore said about this not being able to be Googled, and remember that this reading happened in just the past couple of days:

Note the songs it says Macklemore sang at Recovery Fest last November at this link.

Read the lyrics of the song "Kevin".

Read what was posted by Macklemore online in 2015 and which I found with a quick Google search.

Before I say anything else, what are your in depth thoughts on that, Frank?
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Old 9th March 2019, 05:52 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Yea! well its my experience that the spirit world does exist, and you just don't know anything about it.
Here's the thing, if there is a "Spirit World" then that world has CONSISTENT laws, rules, and operational physics. These all should be observable under a specific set of conditions. If they can be consistently observed they can be proven to exist.

I'm not some slick TV ghost hunter, I have to work with the facts, and state only what I can prove. I had a unique opportunity when the Army closed Fort Ord in that I was handed 1,500 buildings of different shapes, sizes, and functions in which to hunt "spirits". Over 7 years I was able to search over 400 of these buildings at different times of the day, and on multiple days in this time frame. Out of 400 buildings I found 8 that I flagged for extra attention.

So right off the bat only 2% of the buildings had anything weird going on. Of the 8 buildings with "activity" only one came close to being consistent. Over those seven years I was able to identify the causes of the different activities I experienced in 7 of those buildings. The last building I'm forced to set aside due to my lack of objectivity as I was well aware of two high-profile murders that took place inside. This knowledge made impartiality an impossibility, so whatever I experienced is questionable within the context of objective research.

If I want to play by YOUR rules, I'm still left with a 1 in 400 ratio for haunted houses, and that means our TV medium should come up dry over 95% of the time. Spirits just aren't roaming in large numbers the earth like some people think they are.

And no, I don't believe in the other 5% either.
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Old 9th March 2019, 11:37 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by Garrette View Post
Now remember what Macklemore said about this not being able to be Googled
In a clip John Oliver played a guy called Matt Lauer acts amazed when Henry tells him a few facts about his late father when it would much more amazing if Henry didn't know such easily ascertained facts. So either the celebrities are extremely dumb or they are willingly playing along and the people watching and believing are extremely dumb.
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Old 10th March 2019, 03:18 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
In a clip John Oliver played a guy called Matt Lauer acts amazed when Henry tells him a few facts about his late father when it would much more amazing if Henry didn't know such easily ascertained facts. So either the celebrities are extremely dumb or they are willingly playing along and the people watching and believing are extremely dumb.
I saw that one. My money mostly on naive, but only on mostly and sometimes with a pinch of wilful naivete.

Years ago I made a friendly challenge to another member of this forum regarding how little he could find out about me without any help beyond what he already knew. I was astounded what he came up with.
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Old 10th March 2019, 06:50 AM   #190
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Has anyone ever deliberately mislead a cold reading into oblivion?

Just understanding how it is done should make it possible to do. I have mislead psychologists into bad conclusions in grade school. I felt a need to hide my motivation for a behavior. Same basic tactics employed by him. Later I learned just not reacting to correct suggestions always lead to others that would make for very confusing conclusions.
Again, I didn't hit full on either but it was enough to throw the entire.
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Old 10th March 2019, 07:49 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by 8enotto View Post
Has anyone ever deliberately mislead a cold reading into oblivion?

Just understanding how it is done should make it possible to do. I have mislead psychologists into bad conclusions in grade school. I felt a need to hide my motivation for a behavior. Same basic tactics employed by him. Later I learned just not reacting to correct suggestions always lead to others that would make for very confusing conclusions.
Again, I didn't hit full on either but it was enough to throw the entire.
I've done this in a different context. Part of Aircrew Survival Training is time spent in a POW camp setting. Interrogation of prisoners uses the same sort of cold reading techniques that psychic scammers use. During the initial interrogation I was told that if I did not cooperate, they would put out a story that I had. I reacted to a statement that my kids would be harassed at school when the story that I was cooperating with the enemy came out. The interrogator picked up on that, and it became the theme in subsequent interrogations. I was not married at the time, and have no children, so the pressure was ineffective.

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Old 10th March 2019, 08:05 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by 8enotto View Post
Has anyone ever deliberately mislead a cold reading into oblivion?

Just understanding how it is done should make it possible to do. I have mislead psychologists into bad conclusions in grade school. I felt a need to hide my motivation for a behavior. Same basic tactics employed by him. Later I learned just not reacting to correct suggestions always lead to others that would make for very confusing conclusions.
Again, I didn't hit full on either but it was enough to throw the entire.
Yes, there are people who have done so, particularly if you expand it from cold readers to psychometric readers and the like. Personally, I have not misled a reader, but I have on multiple occasions not reacted to their statements. Without fail, the result has been the reader giving up on me.
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Old 10th March 2019, 08:07 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by Pope130 View Post
I've done this in a different context. Part of Aircrew Survival Training is time spent in a POW camp setting. Interrogation of prisoners uses the same sort of cold reading techniques that psychic scammers use. During the initial interrogation I was told that if I did not cooperate, they would put out a story that I had. I reacted to a statement that my kids would be harassed at school when the story that I was cooperating with the enemy came out. The interrogator picked up on that, and it became the theme in subsequent interrogations. I was not married at the time, and have no children, so the pressure was ineffective.
Nice usage, though in real world possibly ultimately fatal. My SERE interrogations gave me multiple tactics to practice, but I didn't do this one.
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Old 10th March 2019, 08:09 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by Pope130 View Post
[...] I reacted to a statement that my kids would be harassed at school when the story that I was cooperating with the enemy came out. The interrogator picked up on that, and it became the theme in subsequent interrogations. I was not married at the time, and have no children, so the pressure was ineffective.

A wonderful example of this, although in a fictional setting, is Code Name Verity, by Elizabeth Wein.
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Old 10th March 2019, 09:10 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by Garrette View Post
Nice usage, though in real world possibly ultimately fatal. My SERE interrogations gave me multiple tactics to practice, but I didn't do this one.
Yeah, I'm not sure how that would have worked out in the real world. Fortunately I never got the chance to find out, my number of takeoffs and landings came out even.

The original point I was getting around to was that a lot of people other than psychics use cold reading techniques. Interrogators, as mentioned above, also salespeople, teachers, counselors, comedians, and security personnel come to mind. Many of them probably don't even think of what they're doing as cold reading.
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Old 10th March 2019, 08:50 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by Pope130 View Post
Yeah, I'm not sure how that would have worked out in the real world. Fortunately I never got the chance to find out, my number of takeoffs and landings came out even.



The original point I was getting around to was that a lot of people other than psychics use cold reading techniques. Interrogators, as mentioned above, also salespeople, teachers, counselors, comedians, and security personnel come to mind. Many of them probably don't even think of what they're doing as cold reading.


In my management career, I have used cold reading. Oftentimes, it will be when someone is having an off day. I’ll start off with something like; “Ok, something is obviously bothering you. Everything OK with the kids?” And bingo, their reactions tell me that indeed, something is going on with the kids.

Cold reading is almost entirely dependent on the reactions of the sitter. The reader only needs to come up with something that generally applies to most people. The more you know a person, the more it becomes hot reading.

If I were a medium, I think the smartest thing for me to do would be to focus on famous people to make my name. Think about it: 1)Their lives are pretty much out there in the forms of interviews, Wikipedia, lyrics, writings, etc. 2)They generally live in relatively isolated bubbles with very few people who will talk straight to them or listen to their real concerns and 3)They tend to be extroverted and a bit over the top so they will be much easier to read.

Tyler puts on a better show than someone like John Edward because he has such excellent cold/hot reading subjects.


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Old 10th March 2019, 08:55 PM   #197
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Hell, I've used elements of cold reading in my job in IT Support.
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Old 10th March 2019, 09:23 PM   #198
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Cold reading isn't a dirty trick in itself. It is a useful tool in most relationships in a lifetime.


But like anything else there are those that will abuse it. I have to agree that unless the person doing it makes a promise that endangers your health or finances drastically there is no crime in a legal sense.

Most times the mark chose to visit the reader so the act is voluntary. All the way to the bank for one of them.

Money is powerful motivation and if I could make a decent living just talking, hell yeah. It beats fixing broken cars.
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Old 11th March 2019, 02:33 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by Frank McLaughlin View Post
Well....that settles it....Henry must be a fraud...reading D list celebrities!



I see you have a keen eye for this celebrity thing. I'll check with you for a celebrity rating after next week's show.
I am not sure what you are talking about. I didn't say anything about Henry. Did you confuse me with someone else.

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Old 11th March 2019, 11:32 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by Frank McLaughlin View Post
You are claiming that Corbett Stern Productions, Michael Corbett and 44 Blue Productions are committing blatant fraud in collusion with E! Entertainment by editing a TV show to provide false and misleading information to 2 million people? Interesting.

If what you are telling me is true, it is curious that not one of these celebrities has stepped forward to object to the interview editing and the final product. Just the opposite, celebrities rave about the quality of the reading if the video is to be believed.

And no one on the TV crew, the background research team, the camera operators, the film editors, the kid holding the mike boom--no one comes forward after four years of this? Maybe. Not likely.

You would agree with me that eventually some celebrity will get pissed about the reading or just decide to be honest and expose what Corbett Productions is doing? It's been four years. I'll wait.
You do know what appears on TV is not reality? Criminal Minds is not a documentary following an actual team of FBI investigators with lovely hair tracking down serial killers.

His programme is promoted as entertainment not a documentary.
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