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Tags abortion issues , abortion laws

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Old 25th May 2019, 04:22 PM   #601
Roger Ramjets
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
Are you not capable of even a cursory look into history so as to derive some inkling of what lesson might be gleaned therefrom and applied today? Even if the chances of an echoing repetition may not be likely?
Those who cannot remember...

Quote:
To take just one example. We can look to Tricky Dick's antics and see all the more clearly the playbook by which Trump is operating today, and predict the next moves.
But but but, Trump is the greatest president since Lincoln!
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Old 17th June 2019, 09:17 AM   #602
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When the police catch a contract killer they almost always are willing to cut a deal if the killer will testify against the person who paid for the murder.

If abortion is to be treated like murdder, and
If the opening statement is true

Then shouldn't the current round of anti-abortion laws have prison time for people who pay for abortions?
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Old 27th June 2019, 05:07 AM   #603
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Alabama woman indicted for Manslaughter after she miscarries following being shot in the stomach.

Quote:
An Alabama woman has been charged with manslaughter in connection to a shooting where her unborn child was killed.

The indictment for 27-year-old Marshae Jones was handed down Wednesday by a grand jury following the December 2018 shooting outside of a Dollar General in Pleasant Grove, Alabama.

According to AL.com, Jones was taken into custody in Jefferson County on Wednesday and is being held on a $50,000 bond.

The altercation between Jones and the alleged shooter, 23-year-old Ebony Jemison, was reportedly related to the father of Jones' unborn child, the Washington Post said. At the time, Jones was five months pregnant.
https://www.newsweek.com/alabama-wom...rriage-1446198
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Old 27th June 2019, 07:37 AM   #604
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Okay. That's seriously crazy.
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Old 27th June 2019, 07:37 AM   #605
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
Okay. That's seriously crazy.
Oh no, apparently not. I'm doing told it makes perfect sense in another thread right now.
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Old 27th June 2019, 08:51 AM   #606
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Alabama? The state that recently approved church police forces? Shocking!
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Old 27th June 2019, 11:34 AM   #607
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Oh no, apparently not. I'm doing told it makes perfect sense in another thread right now.
Dishonest.

In that other thread you're being told that it might make sense, depending on information we don't have yet.

Why are you lying about this?
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Old 27th June 2019, 12:14 PM   #608
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
What's the difference between a church having a police force and a university having a police force?
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Old 27th June 2019, 12:39 PM   #609
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
What's the difference between a church having a police force and a university having a police force?
Giving a religion police (government) powers is a violation of establishment of religion clause;
Giving an educational institution such powers is not.
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Old 27th June 2019, 01:03 PM   #610
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Dishonest.
Ironic.
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Old 27th June 2019, 01:10 PM   #611
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
What's the difference between a church having a police force and a university having a police force?
Nothing. University shouldn't have police forces either.
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Old 27th June 2019, 01:11 PM   #612
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
Ironic.
And yet not untrue.
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Old 27th June 2019, 01:12 PM   #613
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Dishonest.

In that other thread you're being told that it might make sense, depending on information we don't have yet.

Why are you lying about this?
Oh I'm sorry I misspoke.

We're "having a civil discussion about" whether or not it's absolutely insane to charge a pregnant woman with miscarriage after someone else shoots her.

Next we'll "have a civil discussion" about whether or not killing someone and wearing their face like a mask to their children's birthday party is appropriate behavior.
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Old 27th June 2019, 01:18 PM   #614
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Originally Posted by The Greater Fool View Post
Giving a religion police (government) powers is a violation of establishment of religion clause;
Giving an educational institution such powers is not.
Seems like refusing to allow a religious organization to do what non-religious organizations get to do is discrimination against religion.

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Nothing. University shouldn't have police forces either.
That's a consistent and defensible position, and I might even agree with it. But it's unlikely to win the day.
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Old 27th June 2019, 01:33 PM   #615
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Seems like refusing to allow a religious organization to do what non-religious organizations get to do is discrimination against religion.
The issue is addressed specifically in the constitution, which is why we have the concept of church/state separation. Granting police powers to religion violates that separation.
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Old 27th June 2019, 01:53 PM   #616
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
What's the difference between a church having a police force and a university having a police force?
Besides the church/state issue (which is a monstrously huge problem), universities with police forces tend to have at least hundreds if not thousands of students living on their property.

While I'm in agreement that universities shouldn't have police forces either, at least they have what could reasonably be called a "population." Churches don't. Also, they're ******* churches and shouldn't be permitted to be involved in law enforcement.
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Old 27th June 2019, 01:58 PM   #617
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Misquoted.
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Old 27th June 2019, 02:07 PM   #618
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Nothing. University shouldn't have police forces either.
Aggreed, though a lot of university police forces are really rent a cops without any real police powers,no different then the rent a cops you see at every shopping mall.
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Old 27th June 2019, 02:09 PM   #619
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I think it's clear that couple of the die hard GOPers here have no problem living in a oppressive theocracy so long as they get their damn tax cuts.
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Old 27th June 2019, 02:12 PM   #620
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Besides the church/state issue (which is a monstrously huge problem), universities with police forces tend to have at least hundreds if not thousands of students living on their property.
The church in question runs a seminary, maybe they do have student living on campus. Certainly there are churches which do.
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Old 27th June 2019, 02:14 PM   #621
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I think it's clear that couple of the die hard GOPers here have no problem living in a oppressive theocracy so long as they get their damn tax cuts.
Having a police department doesn't mean you get to make the laws. Such a police department would be legally constrained to enforce the same laws as any other police department, so I'm not seeing how you get to "oppressive theocracy". I mean, I get the general objection to non-government entities having police, which applies to secular universities too, but otherwise this just seems like animosity to religion, which is neither good legal grounds nor effective politics.
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Old 27th June 2019, 09:12 PM   #622
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This seems like a better story:

https://www.al.com/news/birmingham/2...dismissed.html

It's still seriously messed up. Charge her with assault, not manslaughter.

Quote:
“The investigation showed that the only true victim in this was the unborn baby,’’ Pleasant Grove police Lt. Danny Reid said at the time of the shooting. “It was the mother of the child who initiated and continued the fight which resulted in the death of her own unborn baby.”
Interesting choice of words.
Quote:
Reid said the fight stemmed over the unborn baby’s father. The investigation showed, he said, that it was Jones who initiated and pressed the fight, which ultimately caused Jemison to defend herself and unfortunately caused the death of the baby.

"Let’s not lose sight that the unborn baby is the victim here,’’ Reid said. “She had no choice in being brought unnecessarily into a fight where she was relying on her mother for protection."

The 5-month fetus was "dependent on its mother to try to keep it from harm, and she shouldn’t seek out unnecessary physical altercations,” Reid added.
Well, if it's true, if she physically attacked the other woman, why isn't she charged with some kind of assault and battery charge?

It's also interesting that they tried to prosecute the other woman first, but a grand jury wouldn't even indict her. I thought that any prosecutor worth his salt could "indict a ham sandwich"? How weak does your case have to be if a grand jury won't even indict?

Maybe that's what happens here, too. We'll see.
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Old 1st July 2019, 06:05 AM   #623
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Aggreed, though a lot of university police forces are really rent a cops without any real police powers,no different then the rent a cops you see at every shopping mall.
Except the ones who are legally full state troopers like in NY.
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Old 1st July 2019, 09:26 AM   #624
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
It's also interesting that they tried to prosecute the other woman first, but a grand jury wouldn't even indict her. I thought that any prosecutor worth his salt could "indict a ham sandwich"? How weak does your case have to be if a grand jury won't even indict?
Grand juries only see what the prosecutor wants them to see. The whole "indict a ham sandwich" thing comes from the fact that a prosecutor can present a very skewed picture of the available evidence. Prosecutors aren't supposed to do that, but they can and sometimes do. But not always. If they're acting ethically, they will present a fairly complete picture of the available evidence. And in such cases, the grand jury may refuse to indict if the case is weak. A less ethical prosecutor with the same case might be able to secure an indictment, though.
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Old 1st July 2019, 11:28 AM   #625
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
When the police catch a contract killer they almost always are willing to cut a deal if the killer will testify against the person who paid for the murder.

If abortion is to be treated like murdder, and
If the opening statement is true

Then shouldn't the current round of anti-abortion laws have prison time for people who pay for abortions?
For any rational consistency, the woman as well would be charged, but she is specifically exempted for no logical reason, as far as I can see. The seek to punish the hit man but not the person who ordered the hit.

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
A less ethical prosecutor with the same case might be able to secure an indictment, though.
The prosecutor is probably being ethical, under a certain set of ethics.

She's not going to be prosecuted, though. The DA will hem and haw and drop the charges. They screwed up not seeking an assault charge.
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