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Tags donald trump , E. Jean Carroll , rape charges , Trump controversies

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Old 1st July 2019, 11:38 AM   #121
Minoosh
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C'mon, folks, do you really think Trump would hit on woman over 50? Let alone rape one ... because everyone knows we're old hags and past it by that age. And rape is all about how attractive the victim is ...

IMO whatever she gains from the anecdote is more than offset by Trump's utter lack of credibility. Her hesitancy to call it rape makes her more credible to me, not less.
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Old 1st July 2019, 12:26 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
How many of the other 2 dozen or so women had you heard of before their claims against Trump became public? Are they not believable because you hadn't heard of them, or because they are saying something you don't want to hear about your guy?
I mean, they're all believable.
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Old 1st July 2019, 01:00 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
C'mon, folks, do you really think Trump would hit on woman over 50? Let alone rape one ... because everyone knows we're old hags and past it by that age. And rape is all about how attractive the victim is ...

IMO whatever she gains from the anecdote is more than offset by Trump's utter lack of credibility. Her hesitancy to call it rape makes her more credible to me, not less.
I can imagine Trump raping a woman over 50, but hitting on one that he doesn't know? Back when he was slightly younger than her? I'd be surprised. Of course, it's possible that he was an equal opportunity lech. Back when my wife was 50, guys were still hitting on her, but she could put a stop to it by mentioning her age. She still looks twenty years younger than she actually is, but that's old enough that she very rarely gets hit on anymore.

Believe me, I wish that age didn't affect the looks or the sex appeal of either men or women, but there are some realities we have to accept.


But, I'm most curious about the highlighted part. I don't see how that could add credibility. To me, it suggests a certain bizarreness of behavior. What she describes is clearly, 100%, rape. The fact that she won't call it what it is is hard for me to explain. The only explanation I can come up with is a certain element of public presentation, of drama, and drama makes me question her truthfulness.


As I said, though, I think either she is telling the truth, or she has a habit of concocting stories, and only those who know her well could talk to the latter possibility.
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Old 1st July 2019, 01:13 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post

IMO whatever she gains from the anecdote is more than offset by Trump's utter lack of credibility. Her hesitancy to call it rape makes her more credible to me, not less.
Same here. In fact this is incredibly common among survivors.
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Old 1st July 2019, 01:17 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I hadn't even heard of this woman until her CNN interview blew up. This is the same credibility arc Dr Lee of the Yale group has to contend with.
Why is the fact that you live under a flat stone and are unaware of the world at large, relevant to anything?
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Old 1st July 2019, 01:20 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
But, I'm most curious about the highlighted part. I don't see how that could add credibility. To me, it suggests a certain bizarreness of behavior. What she describes is clearly, 100%, rape. The fact that she won't call it what it is is hard for me to explain. The only explanation I can come up with is a certain element of public presentation, of drama, and drama makes me question her truthfulness.
My understanding is that she says that she called two friends after it happened (the contemporaneous corroborators). The first one said something like "that's rape." And she replied that calling it rape was victim-language, and that she wasn't comfortable taking a passive role in the narrative. So she chooses to call it a fight instead.

I think the lady is probably some kind high-functioning crazypants, but she does make a certain amount of sense in this (assuming that conversation happened the way I saw it reported).
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Old 1st July 2019, 01:20 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I hadn't even heard of this woman until her CNN interview blew up. This is the same credibility arc Dr Lee of the Yale group has to contend with.
Just like Bill Cosby's so called victims. Or those accusing the catholic church.
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Old 1st July 2019, 01:21 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Why is the fact that you live under a flat stone and are unaware of the world at large, relevant to anything?
Because the magazine that runs her advice column might like to get their hands on my subscription payments?
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Old 1st July 2019, 01:25 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Because the magazine that runs her advice column might like to get their hands on my subscription payments?

That isn't a reason why your unawareness is relevant.
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Old 1st July 2019, 01:26 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Just like Bill Cosby's so called victims. Or those accusing the catholic church.
Substantially different from most of those, actually. There's a reason I compared her to Dr Lee and not, say Tamara Green.
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Old 1st July 2019, 01:27 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
That isn't a reason why your unawareness is relevant.
It's extremely relevant to people who would like my money and don't know how unaware I actually am.
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Old 1st July 2019, 02:25 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's extremely relevant to people who would like my money and don't know how unaware I actually am.
Note that smartcooky didn't say it was irrelevant to everything, it's merely irrelevant to the topic at hand.
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Old 1st July 2019, 02:41 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
Note that smartcooky didn't say it was irrelevant to everything, it's merely irrelevant to the topic at hand.
Note that smartcooky asked if it was relevant to anything. Which it is. And it even comes around full circle to the topic at hand. An advice columnist I never heard of, writing for a magazine I never read or even think about, has been brought to my awareness by means of sensationalist claims that are getting broadcast in channels I'm actually aware of. Coincidentally I'm sure, I've become aware of her just at the moment when she's selling a book.
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Old 1st July 2019, 02:47 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Note that smartcooky asked if it was relevant to anything. Which it is. And it even comes around full circle to the topic at hand. An advice columnist I never heard of, writing for a magazine I never read or even think about, has been brought to my awareness by means of sensationalist claims that are getting broadcast in channels I'm actually aware of. Coincidentally I'm sure, I've become aware of her just at the moment when she's selling a book.
"Anything" relative to the topic at hand, obviously. And your ignorance/knowledge of the accuser is irrelevant to her credibility....

...and yet, credibility issues concerning Donald Trump are routinely dismissed by you.

Fascinating!
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Old 1st July 2019, 02:49 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I can imagine Trump raping a woman over 50, but hitting on one that he doesn't know?
At least he couldn't get her pregnant.

Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
But, I'm most curious about the highlighted part. I don't see how that could add credibility.
Mostly because I've done it myself. I can identify.
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Old 1st July 2019, 03:09 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
"Anything" relative to the topic at hand, obviously. And your ignorance/knowledge of the accuser is irrelevant to her credibility....

...and yet, credibility issues concerning Donald Trump are routinely dismissed by you.
It's not a question of credibility, but of significance.


Quote:
Fascinating!
Not really, but it's a slow day.
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Old 1st July 2019, 03:13 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's not a question of credibility, but of significance.
To you, sure. To anyone else, no.



Quote:
Not really, but it's a slow day.
Hey, I'll take it where I can get it.
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Old 1st July 2019, 03:28 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I think the lady is probably some kind high-functioning crazypants,
Based on what?
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Old 1st July 2019, 03:30 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
To you, sure. To anyone else, no.
To anyone else it's a question of credibility?

Do you think there's a question of credibility here? I don't. I think the credibility question in this case is moot. She's not pressing charges. She's just selling a book.
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Old 1st July 2019, 04:33 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
"Anything" relative to the topic at hand, obviously. And your ignorance/knowledge of the accuser is irrelevant to her credibility....

...and yet, credibility issues concerning Donald Trump are routinely dismissed by you. Fascinating!
As usual, when the subject is Trump, I see a one-sided discussion. The Trumpites just repeat talking points: That 'there's nothing to this,' because-
  1. I never heard of her.
  2. She's trying to make money selling a book.
  3. She's a nut job.

Yet I have a sneaky feeling the deniers are probably more sure he did it than the people who think it sounds 'credible.' I think Trump getting nasty with a honey is probably one of the reasons they adore him.
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Old 1st July 2019, 04:49 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
To anyone else it's a question of credibility?
No, significance. Isn't that what you just said it's a question of? Your ignorance of who the accuser is is significant to you. It's not significant to anyone else.

Quote:
Do you think there's a question of credibility here? I don't. I think the credibility question in this case is moot. She's not pressing charges. She's just selling a book.
I don't think there's a question of credibility. If it's true that you don't, either, then why were you bringing up book sales as possible motivation?
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Old 1st July 2019, 05:47 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
To anyone else it's a question of credibility?

Do you think there's a question of credibility here? I don't. I think the credibility question in this case is moot. She's not pressing charges. She's just selling a book.
It doesn't have to be true, it just has to stick.
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Old 1st July 2019, 05:58 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
As usual, when the subject is Trump, I see a one-sided discussion. The Trumpites just repeat talking points: That 'there's nothing to this,' because-
  1. I never heard of her.
  2. She's trying to make money selling a book.
  3. She's a nut job.

Yet I have a sneaky feeling the deniers are probably more sure he did it than the people who think it sounds 'credible.' I think Trump getting nasty with a honey is probably one of the reasons they adore him.
Don't forget "she's not his type."

Her credibility doesn't matter if you don't mind a rapey president.
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Old 1st July 2019, 10:00 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
"Anything" relative to the topic at hand, obviously. And your ignorance/knowledge of the accuser is irrelevant to her credibility....

...and yet, credibility issues concerning Donald Trump are routinely dismissed by you.

Fascinating!
"No, 'fascinating' is a word I use for the unexpected. In this case, I should think 'interesting' would suffice."
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Old 1st July 2019, 10:02 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
To anyone else it's a question of credibility?

Do you think there's a question of credibility here? I don't. I think the credibility question in this case is moot. She's not pressing charges. She's just selling a book.
Meh! She's just selling a book, so Trump raping her is OK with you
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Old 1st July 2019, 10:32 PM   #146
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The Pro-Trump / Anti-Trump "book to end all books" promotion is now running for something like four years.
It's a surefire way to make some money for everyone, since people buy the books to signal support for their cause more than for the purpose of reading them.
The deluge of Trump Fan-fiction pouring in from the Right doesn't have the problem of requiring at least a few verifiable facts, so the volume is even greater, but the exposure is less.

If you are against this sort of thing, never buy a first edition.
Most of these books don't get a reprint.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 07:07 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Her hesitancy to call it rape makes her more credible to me, not less.
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
But, I'm most curious about the highlighted part. I don't see how that could add credibility. To me, it suggests a certain bizarreness of behavior.
Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Mostly because I've done it myself. I can identify.
This is quite common. Other behaviour that is often seen as "bizarre" but which is not is not fighting back, not going straight to the police, and variations of what on earth was she doing taking risk <x> in the first place?
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Old 2nd July 2019, 08:38 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by Francesca R View Post
This is quite common. Other behaviour that is often seen as "bizarre" but which is not is not fighting back, not going straight to the police, and variations of what on earth was she doing taking risk <x> in the first place?
All of those other things make sense to me. I get that someone might not go to police, and I get that she might feel foolish for putting herself in that place.


I get all that.


20 years later, not calling something rape when you acknowledge that it meets every definition of rape seems bizarre to me.


On the other hand, I suppose I see variations of it all the time. I'm constantly amazed when I see people asked a very straightforward question, and instead of saying "yes", they say "I would prefer to say...." Several times in my life I have brought business meetings to a sudden stop by saying "yes" to a question, and not elaborating. People are so used to weasel words that when someone doesn't use them, it can be kind of shocking.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 08:44 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by Francesca R View Post
This is quite common. Other behaviour that is often seen as "bizarre" but which is not is not fighting back, not going straight to the police, and variations of what on earth was she doing taking risk <x> in the first place?
According to her account, she did fight back. Also, it seems like she's been pretty clear about what she was doing taking the risk. The only thing she didn't do is go straight to the police, but apparently she considered the matter closed after she fought back and the encounter came to an end.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 02:33 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
20 years later, not calling something rape when you acknowledge that it meets every definition of rape seems bizarre to me.
For some women (and men) rape can be so scarring and so life altering that 20 years is nowhere near enough. Some of them are never able to get past it.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 10:02 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
20 years later, not calling something rape when you acknowledge that it meets every definition of rape seems bizarre to me.
Translation - she's an opportunistic lying bitch.

And she was asking for it.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 03:59 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
But they're broadly supported by the "Access Hollywood" audio. He said he did it; women came forward and confirmed what he said. A plus B equals C.
Plus his divorce trial.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 04:17 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
According to her account, she did fight back. Also, it seems like she's been pretty clear about what she was doing taking the risk. The only thing she didn't do is go straight to the police, but apparently she considered the matter closed after she fought back and the encounter came to an end.
One of her friends told her that Trump and his "army of lawyers" would ruin her if she went to the police. Pretty much the same as with Bill Cosby.

It's perfectly reasonable to want to avoid reliving a traumatic experience when you are not sure you would be believed and where your private life would be picked over in public by defence lawyers. And were you could easily end up financially ruined.

Also minimizing the event to oneself is a common coping mechanism.

If you are unaware of that, then you are even less qualified to comment on this subject than me.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 08:01 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Translation - she's an opportunistic lying bitch.

And she was asking for it.
You would think I would learn not to participate in threads like this.




Or any others..........
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Old 3rd July 2019, 08:39 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
You would think I would learn not to participate in threads like this.




Or any others..........
Look it is totally unacceptable to treat new allegations of supposed old crimes seriously. That is why we need to apologize to the catholic church for the pennsylvania "investigation" I mean they supposedly found hundreds of child victims and yet only 3 of them were under 50. Total crazy BS by money grubbers just like all the allegations against Trump.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 04:25 PM   #156
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Trump could video a rape and post it to social media titled, “When your first time is rape” and nobody would do a damned thing.
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Old 9th July 2019, 03:49 AM   #157
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I believe this is a rather poorly-titled thread.
I sort of expect more allegations every 5-8 months and a year from now people will have no idea which sexual assault allegation this thread is referring to without checking the thread’s creation date.
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Old 9th July 2019, 04:07 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
I believe this is a rather poorly-titled thread.
I sort of expect more allegations every 5-8 months and a year from now people will have no idea which sexual assault allegation this thread is referring to without checking the threadís creation date.
Katie Johnson who accused Trump of raping her at 13 years old seems topical again.

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Old 9th July 2019, 04:38 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
For some, Trump's criminal deeds only reinforces their support for him. They idolize power, and the lack of consequences for blatant misdeeds only confirms that Trump is powerful. The president is (and has been in his prior life) above the laws and norms that govern the little people, and that's exactly what they want out of him. They do not deny that Trump has been wicked, but instead embrace wickedness without consequence as his, and vicariously their, right.
Assuming some overlap with the evangelicals, it sure helps confirm their oft-given hint that, without post-life consequences, they would be utterly immoral.
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Old 9th July 2019, 04:48 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Assuming some overlap with the evangelicals, it sure helps confirm their oft-given hint that, without post-life consequences, they would be utterly immoral.
Many evangelical leaders act as if they donít believe in those consequences at all so live up the material life full of Biblical sin.
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