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Old 1st July 2019, 11:43 AM   #41
Mycroft
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
It looks nothing like a Biden site, see for yourself.

https://joebiden.info
I want to get one of the t-shirts. Maybe my wife would like the one with the hands.
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Old 1st July 2019, 11:44 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Do you believe this is an official Trump campaign website, commissioned and funded by the Trump campaign?
I believe several people in this thread are trying to distract from the issue with their usual shiny object distraction: Nitpick something in the thread title then try to steer the discussion into a debate about the nitpick.

This is an oft' repeated tactic used by the same people, probably done unconsciously. Shift the argument to something about the OP and away from anything about Trump.

I think I'll copy/save that last paragraph to paste into other applicable threads.
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Old 1st July 2019, 11:47 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I'm not arguing with any of that. That being said, he wasn't working in any form of official capacity when he made those sites. He was using his own free time.

I'm of the mindset that this means little to me. I live in the tech world, I can identify fake sites easily, especially one that looks like that.

That being said, as we have concluded in other threads, words mean things. These sites weren't requested, they weren't paid for, they were done by a person on their free time that also happened to work for the company that Trump does business with.

That's it, I have no dog in this race.
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Old 1st July 2019, 11:49 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I believe several people in this thread are trying to distract from the issue with their usual shiny object distraction: Nitpick something in the thread title then try to steer the discussion into a debate about the nitpick.

This is an oft' repeated tactic used by the same people, probably done unconsciously. Shift the argument to something about the OP and away from anything about Trump.

I think I'll copy/save that last paragraph to paste into other applicable threads.
I think it's fair to say that I'm not doing that, and the only reason I brought anything up at all is because the statement of the OP is wrong. As in, it's not correct.

Nonetheless, as we've stated, this has little to nothing to do with Trump. I hate that stupid sack of limp dicks as much as anyone, but the fact remains that there is no proof Trump had any input at all. In fact, outside of the guy working for a company that got hired by Trump, this has exactly **** all to do with Trump at all. As has been pointed out, Dems do this **** too. It's nothing to get bent out of shape about.
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Last edited by plague311; 1st July 2019 at 11:51 AM.
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Old 1st July 2019, 12:23 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I think it's fair to say that I'm not doing that, and the only reason I brought anything up at all is because the statement of the OP is wrong. As in, it's not correct....
OK, give it honorable mention. Don't keep the thread off-topic on that particular nitpick until Safe-Keeper says 'uncle' to your satisfaction.

If you don't think a consulting company that Trump used in 2016 and is using again in 2020 amounts to an "official" give it the label you think applies and move the discussion back to the actual issue, Trump or the Trump campaign is supporting quite dishonest tactics.

If this had been an unrelated agency of individual, Trump is less culpable. He could make an announcement the campaign doesn't approve and leave it at that.

But this is a company they used in the past and are continuing to do business with, not an unrelated individual.
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Old 1st July 2019, 12:43 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
OK, give it honorable mention. Don't keep the thread off-topic on that particular nitpick until Safe-Keeper says 'uncle' to your satisfaction.
If we take the fact that the individual isn't really related to the campaign at all, then what would the thread title say? "Guy makes Joe Biden parody site". Neat. I think that the fact that he really isn't representative of the campaign at all (which is implied by saying he's an official) is pretty important.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
If you don't think a consulting company that Trump used in 2016 and is using again in 2020 amounts to an "official" give it the label you think applies and move the discussion back to the actual issue, Trump or the Trump campaign is supporting quite dishonest tactics.
You're spending as much time as I am splitting this particular hair. This isn't "a consulting company" that's making the site. It's not even that. It's a guy that works for the consulting company pissing around on his own time, making parody websites.

I don't find this to be particularly dishonest or associated with Trump. It's a pretty big stretch to get there.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
If this had been an unrelated agency of individual, Trump is less culpable.
Again, the company isn't doing it. A person that works for the company is doing it. I know that, for some reason, that seems to be a minor detail to you, but I don't agree.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
He could make an announcement the campaign doesn't approve and leave it at that.

But this is a company they used in the past and are continuing to do business with, not an unrelated individual.
For the final time, the company isn't making the website. I run several URL's that I handle on my own time. None of them are representative of the company I work for at all, and they wouldn't claim any of them. When I build those sites, I'm not working for my company. I'm pissing around on my own time.
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Old 1st July 2019, 01:13 PM   #47
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I'm not spending any time on it except pointing out the attempt to switch the debate from Trump to the OP's wording of the thread title.
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Old 1st July 2019, 01:18 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I'm not spending any time on it except pointing out the attempt to switch the debate from Trump to the OP's wording of the thread title.
No ****. I even said that, because Trump has nothing to do with this and that's the point. The wording implies he does, not the least bit ironic that I just pointed out you were spending as much time on it as I am.

The fact is that this has nothing to do with Trump at all, as desperately as you want it too. It just doesn't.
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Old 1st July 2019, 02:15 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
No ****. I even said that, because Trump has nothing to do with this and that's the point. The wording implies he does, not the least bit ironic that I just pointed out you were spending as much time on it as I am.

The fact is that this has nothing to do with Trump at all, as desperately as you want it too. It just doesn't.
There have been many cases of people getting fired for things they do in their spare time if it brings their employer into disrepute.

It doesn't matter if this guy was paid to make the fake Biden site; he is employed by Trump's campaign, therefore any public political statement he makes is part of his job.

If he made an anti-Trump website in his spare time I'm pretty sure he'd be out of a job.
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Old 1st July 2019, 02:20 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
No ****. I even said that, because Trump has nothing to do with this and that's the point. The wording implies he does, not the least bit ironic that I just pointed out you were spending as much time on it as I am.

The fact is that this has nothing to do with Trump at all, as desperately as you want it too. It just doesn't.
So argue the highlighted point, not the OP title.

My guess is Kushner is involved in hiring this company. And given the campaign used the same company last year as well, I fail to see how you can conclude Trump has nothing to do with it.
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Old 1st July 2019, 02:21 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Brainache View Post
There have been many cases of people getting fired for things they do in their spare time if it brings their employer into disrepute.

It doesn't matter if this guy was paid to make the fake Biden site; he is employed by Trump's campaign, therefore any public political statement he makes is part of his job.

If he made an anti-Trump website in his spare time I'm pretty sure he'd be out of a job.
While not saying you are wrong, I don't agree that's generally the case. Also, again, he isn't employed by Trump's campaign. He works at the company that did business with Trump. My company has dozens of accounts I'll never touch or do any work for. Therefor I don't work for them, I work for my company. The company does work for them. That's exactly the same situation.

That does make me happy I don't work for a company that would **** on me like that though. I didn't agree with the woman getting fired that gave the POTUS the middle finger, and I don't agree with this.
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Last edited by plague311; 1st July 2019 at 02:24 PM.
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Old 1st July 2019, 02:22 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Biden is failing fine all by himself, no help is needed
That's okay, Trump is behind plenty of potential Democrat contenders in the polls.
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Old 1st July 2019, 02:24 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
So argue the highlighted point, not the OP title.

My guess is Kushner is involved in hiring this company. And given the campaign used the same company last year as well, I fail to see how you can conclude Trump has nothing to do with it.
I did argue the highlighted, repeatedly. I did it by saying "He doesn't work for the campaign, he works for the company. The company works for the campaign" but you weren't having it. In fact, I'm shocked you're pointing this out at all.

I feel like I've explained this multiple times. Perhaps you should stop telling me what I should and shouldn't be able to discuss and pay attention to what I'm saying.

The reason Trump has nothing to do with it is because he gave no directive to make this site, that's supported by any evidence. He didn't have a hand in it. He didn't design it, he didn't request the company to design it, he didn't pay for it, he didn't host it, he literally had ******* nothing to do with it. The only connection you're finding is that the employee that DID do it works for the company that has worked for the Trump campaign and might work for his campaign again. The person who did this did it all on their own time has a hobby. Just like I do, but none of my free time work represents my companies clients, and it sure as **** doesn't represent the bosses of those companies.
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Last edited by plague311; 1st July 2019 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 1st July 2019, 03:22 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I did argue the highlighted, repeatedly. I did it by saying "He doesn't work for the campaign, he works for the company. The company works for the campaign" but you weren't having it. In fact, I'm shocked you're pointing this out at all.

I feel like I've explained this multiple times. Perhaps you should stop telling me what I should and shouldn't be able to discuss and pay attention to what I'm saying.

The reason Trump has nothing to do with it is because he gave no directive to make this site, that's supported by any evidence. He didn't have a hand in it. He didn't design it, he didn't request the company to design it, he didn't pay for it, he didn't host it, he literally had ******* nothing to do with it. The only connection you're finding is that the employee that DID do it works for the company that has worked for the Trump campaign and might work for his campaign again. The person who did this did it all on their own time has a hobby. Just like I do, but none of my free time work represents my companies clients, and it sure as **** doesn't represent the bosses of those companies.
You do know you're not the only person in the thread, right? Did I quote or name you?

I have been skimming the posts that have been trying to make the argument about the wording in the thread title.

Okay, so back to the thread discussion. You're letting Trump off the hook because he put up a wall between the worst shenanigans and himself? Pretty convenient isn't it?

Is this something Trump would commonly do? Yes. Is there any reason to believe Trump would not approve of this if he knew his campaign staff were involved or had hired the company? No.

Isn't this similar to the actions that went on in 2016 that Russian Bots and Trolls used to influence voters? Are we just going to say it's OK for Trump and the Trump campaign to engage in the same behavior?

Apparently.
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Old 1st July 2019, 03:58 PM   #55
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Better thread title: "Trump behind fake Biden website."
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Old 2nd July 2019, 12:01 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
So? Aside from the begged questions, so what? Trump isn't obliged to run a "normal" campaign. You can't make something official just by complaining that the other guy didn't do "enough" to suppress it. Get over yourself.
Trump isn't running the Campaign, the RNC is in all but name.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 01:54 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Trump isn't running the Campaign, the RNC is in all but name.
The RNC is the Trump 2020 Campaign in all but name.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 08:26 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You do know you're not the only person in the thread, right? Did I quote or name you?
Yes, you did quote me, not in every post though. Either way, I was responding to your statements to me, as well as others.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Okay, so back to the thread discussion. You're letting Trump off the hook because he put up a wall between the worst shenanigans and himself? Pretty convenient isn't it?
Strawman and hyperbole. This is the "worst shenanigans"? An obvious parody site about Joe Biden? Wow. This is crazy.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Is this something Trump would commonly do? Yes. Is there any reason to believe Trump would not approve of this if he knew his campaign staff were involved or had hired the company? No.
I don't just believe things by default because I dislike someone. There's absolutely no evidence at all Trump had anything to do with this at all. If you want to continue to say he did, go right ahead, but it's not true.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Isn't this similar to the actions that went on in 2016 that Russian Bots and Trolls used to influence voters? Are we just going to say it's OK for Trump and the Trump campaign to engage in the same behavior?

Apparently.
Another strawman.

No, they aren't similar. One was carried out by a hostile country that spent literally millions in funds to create a misinformation campaign designed to target key voting locations. They didn't label themselves as parody or fake at all. In fact, they took great lengths to make sure that they didn't appear fake. i.e. blacktivist.

The other is a guy chilling at his house that paid the $15 US to get a URL, and another couple of hours putting together a website that specifically tagged as parody. They aren't even close.

You're comparing putt-putt to the Masters.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 08:49 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Trump isn't running the Campaign, the RNC is in all but name.
In that case, the correct Wrong Thread Title should be "RNC official behind fake Biden web site".

Last edited by theprestige; 2nd July 2019 at 09:12 AM. Reason: fixed spelling of initialism
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Old 2nd July 2019, 08:59 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
In that case, the correct Wrong Thread Title should be "RNS official behind fake Biden web site".
I wonder why you keep addressing these corrections to me instead of the OP.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 09:13 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I wonder why you keep addressing these corrections to me instead of the OP.
Just following the thread of the conversation.

---

Safe-Keeper, your thread title is fractally wrong.

---

Better?

Last edited by theprestige; 2nd July 2019 at 09:15 AM.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 09:16 AM   #62
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My issue is with the scummy, anti-democratic tactics used by one of the two major parties in this country, not with thread headlines.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 09:22 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
My issue is with the scummy, anti-democratic tactics used by one of the two major parties in this country, not with thread headlines.
As has been shown in this thread earlier, this isn't a one party deal. Both parties are guilty of doing this, or having people do it on their behalf. There's a name for it in the IT world, though it escapes me at the moment. Link hijacking, or URL mirroring or some such thing. It's used all of the time, by more than just politicians as well. This was actually pretty decent as the guy had the good taste to label the page as parody.

Quote:
This site is political commentary and parody of Joe Biden's Presidential campaign website. This is not Joe Biden's actual website.
It is intended for entertainment and political commentary only and is therefore protected under fair use.
It is not paid for by any candidate, committee, organization, or PAC. It is a project BY AN American citizen FOR American citizens. Self-Funded.
Lots of sites don't even do that. I mean, it's so obvious it's...funny. Almost like...a parody of what a real site would be.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 09:33 AM   #64
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I have no problem with condemning such tactics from either side.

I also know that such tactics have been used since the beginning of US democracy.

But in the current internet-heavy world of information access, politicians must either pass laws to prevent such dirty tricks, or refrain from using them.
Otherwise, they leave the policing to FB, Twitter and the like, which is inherently undemocratic.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 09:37 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I have no problem with condemning such tactics from either side.

I also know that such tactics have been used since the beginning of US democracy.

But in the current internet-heavy world of information access, politicians must either pass laws to prevent such dirty tricks, or refrain from using them.
Otherwise, they leave the policing to FB, Twitter and the like, which is inherently undemocratic.
While I can quibble with that on the basis of Free Speech, I would say it's pretty low on the dirty tricks level.

The appropriate thing to do, in my opinion, would be to give all individuals running for a federal office a .gov url that would allow them to always say that's the official site for them. States would have to do that on their own. Just my opinion.

Seriously though, just like reading fake magazines (The Sun, National Enquirer, etc) I truly believes this is the responsibility of the reader, not the provider of the information. My sites are largely just funny, ********ty type of sites. I'd be pissed if I had to take them down.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 09:48 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
As has been shown in this thread earlier, this isn't a one party deal. Both parties are guilty of doing this, or having people do it on their behalf. There's a name for it in the IT world, though it escapes me at the moment. Link hijacking, or URL mirroring or some such thing. It's used all of the time, by more than just politicians as well. This was actually pretty decent as the guy had the good taste to label the page as parody.



Lots of sites don't even do that. I mean, it's so obvious it's...funny. Almost like...a parody of what a real site would be.
Domain squatting.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 10:10 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
It's a Trump campaign official - completely innocent.

They also have websites for all the other D candidates.
I don't think Trump sees any difference between his administration, his campaign, his businesses, and the Republican party. He's pretty much right about that.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 10:52 AM   #68
plague311
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Domain squatting.
That's it! Man, it was killing me but I couldn't think of it for the life of me. Thanks.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 10:57 AM   #69
wareyin
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
While I can quibble with that on the basis of Free Speech, I would say it's pretty low on the dirty tricks level.

The appropriate thing to do, in my opinion, would be to give all individuals running for a federal office a .gov url that would allow them to always say that's the official site for them. States would have to do that on their own. Just my opinion.

Seriously though, just like reading fake magazines (The Sun, National Enquirer, etc) I truly believes this is the responsibility of the reader, not the provider of the information. My sites are largely just funny, ********ty type of sites. I'd be pissed if I had to take them down.
One reason why the Russian disinformation campaign helped Trump win is that a depressingly large number of people don't have the skills to tell the difference between real and false information.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 02:59 PM   #70
plague311
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
One reason why the Russian disinformation campaign helped Trump win is that a depressingly large number of people don't have the skills to tell the difference between real and false information.
But can we limit free speech with the justification of "saving people from themselves." I understand taking down information that's proven to be foreign funded, political, and a blatant lie. I am all for that.

This is none of those things. I firmly believe we can't limit speech or dumb down society to the lowest idiot.

Rights first. We just have to suffer the idiots.
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"Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher

“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss
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Old 2nd July 2019, 03:13 PM   #71
wareyin
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
But can we limit free speech with the justification of "saving people from themselves." I understand taking down information that's proven to be foreign funded, political, and a blatant lie. I am all for that.

This is none of those things. I firmly believe we can't limit speech or dumb down society to the lowest idiot.

Rights first. We just have to suffer the idiots.
Before the last presidential election I thought we had far fewer idiots than I think we do now. When scammers, con-men, and lairs' rights to tell falsehoods infringes on the function of society, we are going to have to decide whether we want to worship rights above a functioning society. We also need to keep in mind that these types of lies and these idiots that fall for the lies have led to putting a man in power who has already been calling for curtailing the freedom of speech.

I don't know where the cut-off lies, though.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 04:09 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Yes, you did quote me, not in every post though. Either way, I was responding to your statements to me, as well as others.
Only after you responded to my general comments!

Whatever.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 07:26 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
But can we limit free speech with the justification of "saving people from themselves." I understand taking down information that's proven to be foreign funded, political, and a blatant lie. I am all for that.

This is none of those things. I firmly believe we can't limit speech or dumb down society to the lowest idiot.

Rights first. We just have to suffer the idiots.
Hilited: Are you sure you really want to claim that. What is this, if not political? The guy runs a media company that works for the Trump Campaign. It's not some guy in his basement living off Youtube hits.
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