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Tags Florida politics , Frederica Wilson , political gaffes , Ryan Saavedra

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Old 3rd July 2019, 05:36 AM   #1
SuburbanTurkey
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Democrat Rep. Frederica Wilson (FL) says that people who are “making fun of members o

https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/sta...43587811258370

Democrat Rep. Frederica Wilson (FL) says that people who are “making fun of members of Congress” online “should be prosecuted”

It's nice that, in this time of political division in the US, that we can all be joined together in our shared hatred of such sheer ineptitude.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 05:39 AM   #2
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This is (deeply unAmerican) crazy talk.

ETA: She seems to be equivocating between online mockery and violent threats, though. I find that a bit confusing.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 05:40 AM   #3
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Would that include other members of Congress because... that would at least be funny to watch play out.

//Serious mode// Obviously of course not, this is insane to even consider.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 05:45 AM   #4
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I've been googling to try and find some accounts of this from anything other than the right wing echo chamber.

That's not to say that their reporting of her comments aren't necessarily accurate but when those sources are well known for misrepresenting things, selectively editing things or indeed making things up completely, IMO it's best to have independent support.

Taken at face value, her comments are both stupid and naive and seemingly drive a horse and cart through the first amendment. If they are indeed accurate then she deserves any and all criticism that comes her way.

But like I say, the sources have prior form for distortion or indeed making things up completely.


edited to add.....

I listened to her comments and it seemed clear to me that when she was talking about prosecutions, she was referring to people online who were threatening and intimidating members of congress, not merely making fun of them.

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Old 3rd July 2019, 05:47 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I've been googling to try and find some accounts of this from anything other than the right wing echo chamber.

That's not to say that their reporting of her comments aren't necessarily accurate but when those sources are well known for misrepresenting things, selectively editing things or indeed making things up completely, IMO it's best to have independent support.

Taken at face value, her comments are both stupid and naive and seemingly drive a horse and cart through the first amendment. If they are indeed accurate then she deserves any and all criticism that comes her way.

But like I say, the sources have prior form for distortion or indeed making things up completely.
There's literally a video of it. And I don't think this is a situation where someone would bother to make a deepfake.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 05:55 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/sta...43587811258370

Democrat Rep. Frederica Wilson (FL) says that people who are “making fun of members of Congress” online “should be prosecuted”

It's nice that, in this time of political division in the US, that we can all be joined together in our shared hatred of such sheer ineptitude.
She should have done more to separate the issues out a bit, granted.

But the way those two truncated quotes are mashed side by side is not what she said.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 05:58 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I've been googling to try and find some accounts of this from anything other than the right wing echo chamber.

That's not to say that their reporting of her comments aren't necessarily accurate but when those sources are well known for misrepresenting things, selectively editing things or indeed making things up completely, IMO it's best to have independent support.

Taken at face value, her comments are both stupid and naive and seemingly drive a horse and cart through the first amendment. If they are indeed accurate then she deserves any and all criticism that comes her way.

But like I say, the sources have prior form for distortion or indeed making things up completely.


edited to add.....

I listened to her comments and it seemed clear to me that when she was talking about prosecutions, she was referring to people online who were threatening and intimidating members of congress, not merely making fun of them.
The kindest interpretation I can give her statement is that she is terrible at public speaking. She very clearly says that people making fun of congress should be prosecuted. There is no context that makes that sentence more palatable.

She also mentions intimidation, but she is conflating mockery and intimidation, intentionally or not I cannot tell.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 06:01 AM   #8
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She covers a lot of ground in one long sentence, and moved from 'making fun of' to 'intimidating', with reference to a pregnant member of Congress?

Not the clearest of statements, and I only listened to it once, because her voice is pretty grating.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 06:11 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
She should have done more to separate the issues out a bit, granted.

But the way those two truncated quotes are mashed side by side is not what she said.
About what I expected from a right wing pundit.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 06:45 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
She should have done more to separate the issues out a bit, granted.

But the way those two truncated quotes are mashed side by side is not what she said.
here is a full transcript.
Quote:
Those people who are online making fun of members of Congress are a disgrace, and there is no need for anyone to think that is unacceptable. We're going to shut them down and whoever it is, to shut them down and they should be prosecuted. You cannot intimidate members of Congress, threaten members of Congress, it is against the law, and it's a shame in this United States of America.

If this statement was meant to only apply to unlawful intimidation, it was extremely unclear. "We are going to shut them down" seems to directly referring to "people making fun of Congress".
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Old 3rd July 2019, 06:56 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
here is a full transcript.



If this statement was meant to only apply to unlawful intimidation, it was extremely unclear. "We are going to shut them down" seems to directly referring to "people making fun of Congress".
That's a mess of a quote, agreed. I think it's kind of unkind to read is as if the congresswoman wants to prosecute people for making fun of congress, as I highly doubt that's what she wants.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 07:44 AM   #12
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Yeah, I think the best explanation is that her mind began to wander mid-sentence.

I'll give her a chance to clarify. In any case: No, you definitely cannot and should not prosecute being a doofus online.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 07:45 AM   #13
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Quoted in part from the quote: "Those people who are online making fun of members of Congress are a disgrace, and there is no need for anyone to think that is unacceptable."

If this is quoted correctly, I find that I agree with her that criticizing members of Congress is acceptable. Did she perhaps not mean the double negative?
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Old 3rd July 2019, 08:32 AM   #14
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Again, accepting that she just needs to stay away from microphones from now on...

If "those people who are online making fun of members of Congress" is referring to the Facebook group uncovered by ProPublica yesterday, then actually yeah, there are a lot of violations of DHS policy going on there besides the violent threats.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 02:28 PM   #15
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It's a right-wing hit job to distract from the condition of migrants.

She's talking about the Border Patrol Facebook group, which is indeed being officially investigated.

"These people" were government employees with standards of conduct who were making fun of and threatening members of Congress.

Sure, if you ignore what she was actually talking about and the surrounding sentences you can pick one sentence that could read like she was proposing that it should illegal to mock members of Congress, but that is willful stupidity.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 02:59 PM   #16
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If you don't want to be made fun of, don't wear silly hats.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 03:16 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
If you don't want to be made fun of, don't wear silly hats.
Tell it to the pope.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/26/5c...b20b7a0b4d.jpg
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Old 3rd July 2019, 07:08 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
She's talking about the Border Patrol Facebook group, which is indeed being officially investigated.

"These people" were government employees with standards of conduct who were making fun of and threatening members of Congress.
Hey, cut it out! You're ruining a perfectly good talking point.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 07:17 PM   #19
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Meanwhile, @devinnunes files billion dollar lawsuits against people who pretend to be his cow on twitter.
OK, quarter billion. But who's counting.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 07:20 PM   #20
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Is recreational marijuana now legal in Florida?
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Old 3rd July 2019, 08:23 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Meanwhile, @devinnunes files billion dollar lawsuits against people who pretend to be his cow on twitter.
OK, quarter billion. But who's counting.
Isn't he a precious little snowflake. His boss likes to chuck the insults about, but Devin can't handle it when the parody comes back to bite.
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Old 3rd July 2019, 08:59 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Meanwhile, @devinnunes files billion dollar lawsuits against people who pretend to be his cow on twitter.
OK, quarter billion. But who's counting.
I know it's off topic but.. $250 million?? Because twitter didn't regulate their platform as quickly or as much as he would like? His lawsuit even states he still won his re-election(no income lost), although not with the same percentage as he would like. And from that, claims damages? A human life's value ranges from 600k-9 mil, depending on who is covering the cost for the one lost. So.. yea. Frivolous lawsuits (especially in regards to damages sought) really should have some push back.
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Old 4th July 2019, 09:35 AM   #23
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Nunes doesn't even actually live in the state he claims to represent.
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Old 4th July 2019, 10:50 AM   #24
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Ah. Ryan Saavedra.

I'm aware of him, I assume he's lying.
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Old 4th July 2019, 10:59 AM   #25
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Her statement was so poorly worded, clearly she's needs an education in grammar, the First Amendment and common sense.
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Old 4th July 2019, 02:43 PM   #26
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In a nation where Trump is president, she's practically James Madison.
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Old 6th July 2019, 02:37 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
That's a mess of a quote, agreed. I think it's kind of unkind to read is as if the congresswoman wants to prosecute people for making fun of congress, as I highly doubt that's what she wants.
Don't be so sure. This is a regular kind of statement the clowns make before being pulled aside and having it explained to them.
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Old 6th July 2019, 03:26 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Yeah, I think the best explanation is that her mind began to wander mid-sentence.

I'll give her a chance to clarify. In any case: No, you definitely cannot and should not prosecute being a doofus online.
Originally Posted by Pope130 View Post
Quoted in part from the quote: "Those people who are online making fun of members of Congress are a disgrace, and there is no need for anyone to think that is unacceptable."

If this is quoted correctly, I find that I agree with her that criticizing members of Congress is acceptable. Did she perhaps not mean the double negative?
I think that is exactly what happened. Her thoughts switched from one subject to another and she made a very poor transition. It's pretty obvious to me that she meant people making threats or intimidating MoC should be prosecuted, not for making fun of them.

She has one of the most grating voices I've ever heard.
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Old 6th July 2019, 06:09 PM   #29
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Progressive politician talks like a normal person, nobody bats an eye. Donald Trump talks like a normal person, everyone loses their mind.
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Old 6th July 2019, 06:22 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Progressive politician talks like a normal person, nobody bats an eye. Donald Trump talks like a normal person, everyone loses their mind.
To lose one's path of thought while speaking once in a while is normal. To do it so often that it becomes a joke is not.
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Old 6th July 2019, 06:23 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
To lose one's path of thought while speaking once in a while is normal. To do it so often that it becomes a joke is not.
Confirmation bias.

Also, hate.
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Old 6th July 2019, 06:32 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Confirmation bias.

Also, hate.
No, observation of past and continuing behavior. Unless you'd like to claim that stating that "Our Army manned the air, it rammed the ramparts, it took over the airports," during the Revolution is normal. Remember that Trump claimed the teleprompter went off, but he knew the speech so well, he just carried on. If that were a one off, I'd agree that it's no big deal. But it's not a one off. His gaffs like this have become commonplace. That you can't see this IS confirmation bias.
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Old 6th July 2019, 06:34 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Confirmation bias.

Also, hate.
Denial.

Also, cult-like worship.
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Old 6th July 2019, 06:38 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
No, observation of past and continuing behavior. Unless you'd like to claim that stating that "Our Army manned the air, it rammed the ramparts, it took over the airports," during the Revolution is normal. Remember that Trump claimed the teleprompter went off, but he knew the speech so well, he just carried on. If that were a one off, I'd agree that it's no big deal. But it's not a one off. His gaffs like this have become commonplace. That you can't see this IS confirmation bias.
Cool story, bro.

Good job achieving an impasse.
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Old 6th July 2019, 06:49 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Cool story, bro.

Good job achieving an impasse.
This is a great example of how you avoid actually discussing an issue. You've turned sidestepping into an art. You resort to this kind of crap when you can't come up with a cogent counter argument.
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Old 6th July 2019, 07:55 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post

She's talking about the Border Patrol Facebook group, which is indeed being officially investigated.

Well, thank goodness it's only a Border Patrol Facebook group that is being threatened with arrest by a member of Congress for speech. That's a relief.
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Old 7th July 2019, 08:22 AM   #37
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Well at least she didn't think Guam would tip over
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Old 7th July 2019, 09:31 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
Well, thank goodness it's only a Border Patrol Facebook group that is being threatened with arrest by a member of Congress for speech. That's a relief.
Do you imagine that by neatly forgetting to mention the violent threats and other conduct that violate regulations that our awareness of these things will suddenly vanish?
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Old 7th July 2019, 12:48 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Do you imagine that by neatly forgetting to mention the violent threats and other conduct that violate regulations that our awareness of these things will suddenly vanish?
It's cute to suggest that someone who jokes that a group should do something that would pay someone if they were to commit a class C misdemeanor (a crime so petty there is no jail term that can result from a conviction) has made a "violent threat." If a person similarly suggested a GoFundMe for someone who were to throw a milkshake at a "Nazi," I wonder if you would be clutching at your pearls as tightly.

Also, Constitution > regulations. Just a friendly reminder.
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Old 7th July 2019, 01:13 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
here is a full transcript.

No, that is not a full transcript. If you listen to the video, a member of the audience says something, and Wilson then speaks in reply. The question she's responding to is an important part of the transcript, and it's missing.

When people are speaking in public, they generally don't repeat everything which was just said to them in a question -- they generally assume the people present heard the question and know what is being replied to. But their reply is a response to what was asked, so the full content of what was asked needs to be taken into account in order to understand what they're saying.

Her reply doesn't make a lot of sense when it's removed from the question asked. I think you'll find that's true a lot of the time if you listen to answers which speakers make to questions from the audience.

So a full transcript generally needs to include the statements a speaker is responding to as well as what they say in response. Otherwise it's not hard to distort what was said -- as Saavedra has done here.

If the audience member had simply asked about people making fun of members of congress, then her reply would be bad. If the audience member instead asked about people making fun of members of congress and talking about violent things they'd like to see happen to those members of congress, then her reply makes sense. And the latter does seem to be what actually happened. (Note that Saavedra is careful to omit any description of the question she was asked from what he wrote.)

Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Yeah, I think the best explanation is that her mind began to wander mid-sentence.

No, I think the best explanation is that this was a verbal reply rather than a written one. She was replying to a question about a particular group of people who made online remarks mocking members of congress, which included talking about violent things they hoped would happen to those members of congress and that they'd like to do to those members of congress. Wilson briefly criticizes them for the disrespectful tone of the comments, and then goes on to say they should be prosecuted because it's illegal to threaten violence against members of congress.

If what she said had been written as a press release, then it would be reasonable to wonder about her mental competency. That's because when writing one can take time to edit things so they flow smoothly. But as a spoken statement it's quite clear what she was saying.

Oral communication is different from written communication, so an exact transcript of what people say often isn't grammatically perfect and jumps around a bit. Dialogue in real life generally sounds very little like dialogue in movies. There are lots of digressions, lots of bits that start but don't finish, lots of things that start one place and then wander a bit before getting back to the point. When we listen to people speak, our brains generally filter those imperfections out and we hear smoother version than what was actually said. I doubt that anyone who heard the question Wilson was responding to and then heard Wilson's reply had any trouble understanding what she said in reply -- and it wasn't that people should be prosecuted for making fun of members of congress.

Last edited by Nova Land; 7th July 2019 at 01:21 PM.
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