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Tags Catholic incidents , church scandals , George Pell , sex scandals , sexual abuse charges , sexual abuse incidents , sexual misconduct charges

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Old 27th August 2019, 02:37 AM   #281
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https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/...27-p52l4d.html
Quote:
Satirical comedy group The Chaser is organising a welder to permanently add the label "convicted paedophile" to a plaque of George Pell at St Mary's Cathedral in Sydney.

It follows claims from the Catholic Church that footage of the group's previous attempt to add the label was photoshopped. The group first attempted to "permanently update" Pell’s plaque last Wednesday, using Blu-Tack to add "and convicted pedophile" (sic) to his label as the eighth archbishop of Sydney.

After it was quickly removed, the group returned and again added the gold-coloured plate, this time using super glue.
There is video in the link showing the second attempt to add the plaque. The problem is that the person who did the deed did not read the instructions on how to use the glue. For example were both surfaces clean and dry? He also failed to hold the plaque for 30 seconds.

How to use superglue https://www.doityourself.com/stry/8-...ing-super-glue
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Old 27th August 2019, 02:52 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
One person claimed to have photographs of then Father Pell having sex, but he wanted $20,000 for them and could not produce the negatives. The second alleged victim denied being abused before he died. Not all of the facts that were outside of the trial support the prosecution's case.
Did you bother to read the majority judgement?
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Old 27th August 2019, 02:57 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Did you bother to read the majority judgement?
No why would he do that? It didn't support his existing beliefs.
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Old 27th August 2019, 03:09 AM   #284
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
No why would he do that? It didn't support his existing beliefs.
Yeah, there’s a trend in this whole thread for him to latch on to anything exonerating Pell. Two judgements down, and the tactic hasn’t changed. If a High Court appeal is not granted, it will be no doubt evidence of an injustice, if not a major conspiracy.
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Old 27th August 2019, 10:52 PM   #285
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Did you bother to read the majority judgement?
Did you?

2 out of 3 judges may have formed conclusions that fit in with your prejudices but that doesn't mean that you studied the judgements in detail.
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Old 27th August 2019, 11:10 PM   #286
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When a majority of judges make a ruling on a case, it doesn't matter what our prejudices are.
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Old 27th August 2019, 11:21 PM   #287
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Old 27th August 2019, 11:32 PM   #288
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Did you?

2 out of 3 judges may have formed conclusions that fit in with your prejudices but that doesn't mean that you studied the judgements in detail.
Another one where two exemplary judgements are not good enough.

Hoping against hope your hero will return to his flock. Laughable.
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Old 27th August 2019, 11:45 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Another one where two exemplary judgements and one faulty judgement are not good enough.
ftfy.
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Old 27th August 2019, 11:47 PM   #290
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Why should a minority opinion count? That's not how the law works.
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Old 27th August 2019, 11:50 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Why should a minority opinion count? That's not how the law works.
Yes, I know.
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 28th August 2019, 12:02 AM   #292
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So you disagree with the decision. We know that. The church has signalled that they will take it to the High Court. If the High Court declines to hear the case, will that settle it for you?
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Old 28th August 2019, 12:03 AM   #293
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
ftfy.
Clutching at straws as always. Pell sat at the very summit of Catholicism, and is condemned as a vile criminal. A bit of a metaphor for the church as a whole.

Schadenfreude at its most sublime.
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Old 28th August 2019, 01:45 AM   #294
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
So you disagree with the decision. We know that. The church has signalled that they will take it to the High Court. If the High Court declines to hear the case, will that settle it for you?
I don't know if Pell is guilty or not.

I only questioned whether this case should have been tried before a jury. Considering the number of members just in this forum who think that Pell should have been jailed regardless of whether he did the deed or not, I think that is a fair question.
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Old 28th August 2019, 02:05 AM   #295
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I don't know if Pell is guilty or not.

I only questioned whether this case should have been tried before a jury. Considering the number of members just in this forum who think that Pell should have been jailed regardless of whether he did the deed or not, I think that is a fair question.
Very funny. Your opinion is that membership of this forum is representative of the Australian population at large. Do you really look at your posts before you press submit?

Your bias is clear. You are pissed off about the decision. Big deal. You are wrong.
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Old 28th August 2019, 02:22 AM   #296
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Your opinion is that membership of this forum is representative of the Australian population at large.
Maybe your bias is more extreme than that of the Australian population at large.
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Old 28th August 2019, 03:24 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Maybe your bias is more extreme than that of the Australian population at large.
Bias? How about being right.

Come on, time to do a Fonzie. It’s not that hard.....
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Old 28th August 2019, 04:02 AM   #298
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Bias? How about being right.
You are not interested in being right. You just want to punish Pell.
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Old 28th August 2019, 04:03 AM   #299
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Myth NO. 6

Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
So you disagree with the decision. We know that. The church has signalled that they will take it to the High Court. If the High Court declines to hear the case, will that settle it for you?
Lindy Chamberlain lost all of her appeals. Cameron Todd Willingham lost ten appeals IIRC. Larry Swearingen lost all of his appeals, despite having an alibi that was a strong as the door to a jail cell. The Supreme Court of the United States declined to take action in the Catherine Fuller case, despite there being strong evidence of a different perpetrator. See Chapter 45 "Myth NO. 6 Conviction Errors Get Corrected on Appeal" in Jim and Nance Petro's book False Justice.

When an appeals court in any country overturns a conviction, I am often happy, but I am always a little surprised. When an appeals court declines to do so, I attach very little weight to it, in regards to factual innocence or guilt. Justice systems may value finality over getting things right.
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Old 28th August 2019, 06:11 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
Lindy Chamberlain lost all of her appeals. Cameron Todd Willingham lost ten appeals IIRC. Larry Swearingen lost all of his appeals, despite having an alibi that was a strong as the door to a jail cell. The Supreme Court of the United States declined to take action in the Catherine Fuller case, despite there being strong evidence of a different perpetrator. See Chapter 45 "Myth NO. 6 Conviction Errors Get Corrected on Appeal" in Jim and Nance Petro's book False Justice.

When an appeals court in any country overturns a conviction, I am often happy, but I am always a little surprised. When an appeals court declines to do so, I attach very little weight to it, in regards to factual innocence or guilt. Justice systems may value finality over getting things right.
For a start, the Australian High Court is the functional equivalent of the US Supreme Court. It is the last appeal. High Court decisions can be and have been overturned by later courts, but if the High Court declines to take the case - and it will - there are no more options.

Pell has been tried and found guilty. His appeal was based on whether the verdict was arrived at fairly, and a majority opinion said that it was. It's now going to the High Court - the highest court in the land - and my prediction is that they will not hear the case, and Pell will remain in jail as a convicted child molester. And he'll probably die there.
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Old 28th August 2019, 07:05 PM   #301
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Where have I heard this story before?

There are a number of similarities between the account Cardinal Pell's accuser gave and an account of something that was alleged to have happened in Philadelphia many years earlier. Quadrant's Keith Windschuttle was the first person to write about this similarity IIUC. Sabrina Erdely wrote a story that appeared on 15 September 2011 for Rolling Stone magazine. Her article told of a boy who served at mass and was abused afterward. Erdley was reporter who unwittingly enabled "Jackie" with respect to the University of Virginia hoax. A Newsweek reporter Ralph Cipriano wrote a lengthy article that undercut the credibility of the Philadelphia accuser as well as not reflecting well on Erdely's work.

I think that it is possible to overstate the similarity of the two accusations. Yet they are too close for comfort, and the correspondence is one more pebble on the scale IMO.
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Old 28th August 2019, 09:03 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
There are a number of similarities between the account Cardinal Pell's accuser gave and an account of something that was alleged to have happened in Philadelphia many years earlier. Quadrant's Keith Windschuttle was the first person to write about this similarity IIUC. Sabrina Erdely wrote a story that appeared on 15 September 2011 for Rolling Stone magazine. Her article told of a boy who served at mass and was abused afterward. Erdley was reporter who unwittingly enabled "Jackie" with respect to the University of Virginia hoax. A Newsweek reporter Ralph Cipriano wrote a lengthy article that undercut the credibility of the Philadelphia accuser as well as not reflecting well on Erdely's work.

I think that it is possible to overstate the similarity of the two accusations. Yet they are too close for comfort, and the correspondence is one more pebble on the scale IMO.
Keith Windschuttle? Are you serious?

This clown has written that the stolen generation was a hoax and that aboriginal slaughter by settlers did not occur. His "Fabrication of Aboriginal History" has been dismissed as, in fact, a fabrication. He lacks credibility and only a rag like Quadrant will publish him.
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Old 29th August 2019, 01:42 AM   #303
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Did you?

2 out of 3 judges may have formed conclusions that fit in with your prejudices but that doesn't mean that you studied the judgements in detail.

Or maybe they looked at the evidence and determined appropriately from it.
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Old 29th August 2019, 01:43 AM   #304
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Another one where two exemplary judgements are not good enough.

Hoping against hope your hero will return to his flock. Laughable.
Yeah, there's a clique here who don't seem to believe men commit sexual assault.
The Holtzclaw thread has been bumped (he lost his appeal ) and the denial is strong there too.
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Old 29th August 2019, 01:48 AM   #305
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
Lindy Chamberlain lost all of her appeals.
She was convicted on biased and unscientific forensics. Not comparable.
Also your assertion isn't true. The Chamberlain's had two appeals, one in the Federal Court system and one to the AHC. She was released after Azaria Chamberlain's
jacket was found and then formally acquitted. Then there was the Royal Commission.
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Old 29th August 2019, 01:53 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
There are a number of similarities between the account Cardinal Pell's accuser gave and an account of something that was alleged to have happened in Philadelphia many years earlier. Quadrant's Keith Windschuttle <snip>
That'd be Windschuttle the right-wing, racist, loon who maintains, against all the evidence, that the "stolen generations" of Aboriginal children are a myth.

Sweet Jeebus, that's not someone I'd trust to tell me it's raining. But then I suppose you and the other Pell-ites are that desperate.
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Old 29th August 2019, 01:54 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Keith Windschuttle? Are you serious?

This clown has written that the stolen generation was a hoax and that aboriginal slaughter by settlers did not occur. His "Fabrication of Aboriginal History" has been dismissed as, in fact, a fabrication. He lacks credibility and only a rag like Quadrant will publish him.
Don't forget the time Kathy Wilson hoxed him into showing his true colours.
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Old 29th August 2019, 02:17 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Or maybe they looked at the evidence and determined appropriately from it.
Anything is possible.

At the end of the day, it came down to deciding if the victim was a reliable witness. Two judges said "yea" and one said "nay".
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Old 29th August 2019, 02:34 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
She was convicted on biased and unscientific forensics. Not comparable.
Also your assertion isn't true. The Chamberlain's had two appeals, one in the Federal Court system and one to the AHC. She was released after Azaria Chamberlain's
jacket was found and then formally acquitted. Then there was the Royal Commission.
That is the problem right there. A wild fluke saw the jacket found and was a sine qua non for the people to understand she told the truth from the get go.
Maybe Pell tells the truth but proof is beyond reach.
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Old 29th August 2019, 02:41 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
That is the problem right there. A wild fluke saw the jacket found and was a sine qua non for the people to understand she told the truth from the get go.
Maybe Pell tells the truth but proof is beyond reach.
Maybe, maybe, maybe. That’s all supporters of Pell have.

Others have rigorous judgements presided over by the best judges.

Come on. I know you look for miscarriages of justice everywhere, but this is not one.
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Old 29th August 2019, 02:48 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
That is the problem right there. A wild fluke saw the jacket found and was a sine qua non for the people to understand she told the truth from the get go.
Maybe Pell tells the truth but proof is beyond reach.
Eeeeeh, no. Maybe you should familiarise yourself with facts of the case?
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Old 29th August 2019, 04:00 AM   #312
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Cardinal to be charged with sex offences...

Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
She was convicted on biased and unscientific forensics. Not comparable.
Also your assertion isn't true. The Chamberlain's had two appeals, one in the Federal Court system and one to the AHC. She was released after Azaria Chamberlain's
jacket was found and then formally acquitted. Then there was the Royal Commission.
Before Azaria's jacket was found by accident, did Lindy Chamberlain have any more chances to appeal left? That was my point.
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Old 29th August 2019, 04:15 AM   #313
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2011 Rolling Stone article

Windschuttle's political or other beliefs are irrelevant to this discussion. In fact, one can leave him out entirely and go right to Erdely's Rolling Stone article.

"One morning, after serving Mass, Rev. Charles Engelhardt caught Billy in the church sacristy sipping leftover wine. Rather than get mad, however, the priest poured Billy more wine. According to the grand jury, he also showed him some pornographic magazines, asking the boy how the pictures made him feel and whether he preferred the images of naked men or women. He told Billy it was time to become a man and that they would soon begin their 'sessions.'" The key passage of Billy's account continues from this point in the article. BTW a previous link to the Newsweek article discussed Billy's credibility and other aspects of the Philadelphia case.
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Old 29th August 2019, 04:19 AM   #314
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
Windschuttle's political or other beliefs are irrelevant to this discussion. In fact, one can leave him out entirely and go right to Erdely's Rolling Stone article.

"One morning, after serving Mass, Rev. Charles Engelhardt caught Billy in the church sacristy sipping leftover wine. Rather than get mad, however, the priest poured Billy more wine. According to the grand jury, he also showed him some pornographic magazines, asking the boy how the pictures made him feel and whether he preferred the images of naked men or women. He told Billy it was time to become a man and that they would soon begin their 'sessions.'" The key passage of Billy's account continues from this point in the article. BTW a previous link to the Newsweek article discussed Billy's credibility and other aspects of the Philadelphia case.
Nothing at all to do with Pell.

Your attempts to exonerate the criminal Pell is quite telling. And disgusting.
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Old 29th August 2019, 09:22 AM   #315
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
Maybe you should explain what you mean.
There was no significant evidence for the Chamberlain's guilt. The initial inquest showed this.
The same is not true for the child molesting cardinal.
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Old 29th August 2019, 09:24 AM   #316
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
Windschuttle's political or other beliefs are irrelevant to this discussion.
Rubbish. The point is not his racism it's his bias and well documented history of unreliability when it comes to facts that he doesn't like.
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Old 29th August 2019, 09:34 AM   #317
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no substance

Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Rubbish. The point is not his racism it's his bias and well documented history of unreliability when it comes to facts that he doesn't like.
Sabrina Erdely, not Windschuttle, was the reporter on the 2011 story. Therefore your point evaporates.
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Old 30th August 2019, 08:55 AM   #318
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
Sabrina Erdely, not Windschuttle, was the reporter on the 2011 story. Therefore your point evaporates.
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Old 8th October 2019, 07:36 PM   #319
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George Pell's appeal bid based on 'false premise', Victorian prosecutors tell High Court

Quote:
Victorian Prosecutors have said there is no justification for the High Court to grant special leave for Cardinal George Pell to appeal against his child sexual abuse convictions.

The Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) lodged its reply to Pell's application to have his conviction quashed and a two-one ruling by the Victorian Court of Appeal thrown out.

...

Justices Anne Ferguson and Chris Maxwell dismissed the claim the jury's decision was unreasonable, saying the complainant was a compelling witness who came across as truthful.

But Justice Mark Weinberg was not convinced. He said there were discrepancies and inconsistencies in the evidence.

Pell's High Court application challenges the preference for the complainant's evidence by the majority of the Court of Appeal.

His lawyers will tell the High Court their belief in the complainant was an error that would have required him to show the offending was impossible.

But documents filed by the DPP said there was no error, and Pell's argument was based on inaccurate assertions.
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Old 11th October 2019, 01:53 PM   #320
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Cardinal Pell's defense at the June hearing

"He [Bret Walker SC] said based on the evidence, the indications of impossibility were so strong they could not have excluded reasonable doubt." Link.
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