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Old 19th June 2018, 03:34 PM   #41
casebro
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
He's a felon so he can't have any. .....
Not true in all cases. Non violent, pot possession, some other exemptions. And if you have the cash, you can get a judicial pardon too.
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Old 19th June 2018, 03:39 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Finally, to you and Parcher: You are the ones talking about 1,000+ years in prison. I never suggested any such thing. Perhaps you're ignorant of things like suspended or concurrent sentences. Maybe you've never heard of lifetime parole (a condition I would consider acceptable if convicted of 500 non-violent felonies). These gaps in your knowledge are by no means my responsibility.
You now know that the thousands of years sentence thing was a sarcastic joke.
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Old 19th June 2018, 03:42 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Why are you saying a thousand dollars each? Some or most of those old common military rifles are cheap stuff, aren't they?
You can shop on Gunbroker.com. Try <m1 garand>

The most valuable items in my safe are "common old military rifles" . My WWII Garand cost me $89 directly from the US army- can you say "member of the well regulated militia"? Worth um, $1500 now. My semi auto ala 1963 cost me 450 in 1986, worth the same $1500. Old shotguns, $100 in the 80s, $400 today. I shot trap today, $20,000 shotguns were in evidence. Multiply whaterver figure you want, times 550...Can you say "Investment"?
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Old 19th June 2018, 03:42 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Not true in all cases. Non violent, pot possession, some other exemptions. And if you have the cash, you can get a judicial pardon too.
What? Carrying a joint is a felony in California?
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Old 19th June 2018, 03:46 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
You can shop on Gunbroker.com. Try <m1 garand>

The most valuable items in my safe are "common old military rifles" . My WWII Garand cost me $89 directly from the US army- can you say "member of the well regulated militia"? Worth um, $1500 now. My semi auto ala 1963 cost me 450 in 1986, worth the same $1500. Old shotguns, $100 in the 80s, $400 today. I shot trap today, $20,000 shotguns were in evidence. Multiply whaterver figure you want, times 550...Can you say "Investment"?
Look again at post #18. Start talking about guns that you see that are worth $1,000. Be specific.
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Old 19th June 2018, 04:03 PM   #46
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Felon + guns = prison. Not a new development.

I gotta wonder as to his thought process, though.
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Old 19th June 2018, 04:04 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
You can shop on Gunbroker.com. Try <m1 garand>

The most valuable items in my safe are "common old military rifles" . My WWII Garand cost me $89 directly from the US army- can you say "member of the well regulated militia"? Worth um, $1500 now. My semi auto ala 1963 cost me 450 in 1986, worth the same $1500. Old shotguns, $100 in the 80s, $400 today. I shot trap today, $20,000 shotguns were in evidence. Multiply whaterver figure you want, times 550...Can you say "Investment"?
Sounds about right. I want to add a Garand to my collection, but can't justify the cost atm.
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Old 19th June 2018, 04:20 PM   #48
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Finally got to see that BBC link (dodgy Micky D's free WiFi).
It's eight hours old with no follow up yet. Haven't Googled the story.

Not much to go on, and zero mention of ammo. Speaking of...
On the bright side... with that many Garand types, we finally get a thread where we can legit use the term "clips".


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Old 19th June 2018, 04:21 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
Sounds about right. I want to add a Garand to my collection, but can't justify the cost atm.
But it's not a description of what this guy has. It's a hip-shooting assumption that this guy has 550 guns worth $1,000 each.

Anyway, I'm not sure where his M1 Garands are, if he has any. Maybe there are five of them above this dude's left shoulder. What do you think?

https://s.abcnews.com/images/US/500-...in_4x3_992.jpg
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Old 19th June 2018, 04:32 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I think in California they have to give them out to illegal immigrants so they have a real chance at being a productive gang member.
Yes, MS-13.


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Old 19th June 2018, 04:39 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
But it's not a description of what this guy has. It's a hip-shooting assumption that this guy has 550 guns worth $1,000 each.

Anyway, I'm not sure where his M1 Garands are, if he has any. Maybe there are five of them above this dude's left shoulder. What do you think?

https://s.abcnews.com/images/US/500-...in_4x3_992.jpg
I see a lot of Soviet WWII-era Mosin-Nagant rifles. Those are cheap - they used to be under $100 each, but due to embargos and the supply drying up they're closer to $250 these days (retail). You can probably still find them for less at places like Cabela's if you're not picky about matching serial numbers and such.

I see some in the back that look like they could be M1s, but I don't know for sure.

I'm not an expert, but broadly looking at it, I don't see a collection of ~$1000 rifles, I see more of a collection of ~$200-400 rifles. If he bought 10-15 years ago, he could've made a good chunk of change if he'd sold them.
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Old 19th June 2018, 04:43 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Yes, MS-13.


Microsoft Office Suit 2013! There's a mandatory distrobution* clause.



*See what I did there?



A cheap attemp at getting us to actually read the EULA?
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Old 19th June 2018, 04:53 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
But it's not a description of what this guy has. It's a hip-shooting assumption that this guy has 550 guns worth $1,000 each.

Anyway, I'm not sure where his M1 Garands are, if he has any. Maybe there are five of them above this dude's left shoulder. What do you think?

https://s.abcnews.com/images/US/500-...in_4x3_992.jpg
Looks like an M-14 in his hands, $1500. And on the ground at his left elbow, a gold inlayed shotgun, sky is the limit on that without better ID- $1500-15,000. Then over a couple are a pair of Browning A-5 Squarebacks, $500- maybe $1500 depending oin model and condition.

But so far as the majority, even the Carcanos or ummm the Japanese rifle of WWII are not the worthless junk they were a couple decades ago. Some Mausers are worth thousands too, looks like lots of those. Maybe the whole batch avg $500? $275,000 of asset seizure?

But I didn't see any "assault rifles". Closest is the M-14, but it lacks sufficient features in the pic.

Most are "curio and relics". I don't think you even needed papers on them in California until a couple years ago.

But the controversy here is in what kind of felony conviction he had? They can't think he is a really really bad guy with only $32k bond.

Or maybe he is a Joe-Got-Rocks, looking to set a precedent. Or maybe the Sheriff is the one looking for precedent.
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Old 19th June 2018, 05:03 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
I don't see a collection of ~$1000 rifles, I see more of a collection of ~$200-400 rifles.
That's what I see too. Though it's hard to be specific because the photos aren't good, I just don't see any $1,000 anything.

This is his and it's an assault style rifle with matching ammunition, probably maybe.

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/asse...m-plus-169.jpg
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Old 19th June 2018, 05:09 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I don't care about this guy and wouldn't say that felons should be allowed to own guns, but I really do like old guns and that's what he mostly has. I just don't want them to be destroyed.

Old guns aren't so much for shooting as they are for admiring as objects of beauty and history.

His collection doesn't seem to be directed towards quality of condition or rarity but rather towards variety and quantity. He may have had a budget where he spent no more than $500 each or something like that.
I believe it was also the L.A. sheriff that confiscated $2m woth of guns a few years ago. The owner fought it through the courts, who finally said it was an illegal confiscation. After which the sherrif had them all shredded. I haven't heard the outcome of the civil suit. IIRC, the legality was that the owner's wife was in a mental hospital at the time. Sick wife? You lose $2,000,000. It's scarey.

On a lesser scale, there is a LEFR, Law Enforcement Firearms Release, used to regain confiscated guns. Unregistered ones usually I think- about $50 and 90 days. It is not illegal to own unregistered guns, even in California. The transfer might have been, but statute of limitations? I think inheritances are the usual.
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Old 19th June 2018, 05:19 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Maybe the whole batch avg $500?
Now I think you are walking towards reality. It could be lower if it's dominated by war surplus junk in poor condition. Is that really a gold-inlaid shotgun and if so is it a valuable one?

None of the long guns appear to be with cases or even bags. Many of the handguns have cases but it doesn't look like very valuable stuff. I think that this guy wanted quantity and variety over expensive value or excellent condition. If the long guns were minty and/or high value they would be cased or soft-bagged, I think.
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Old 19th June 2018, 05:30 PM   #57
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It's hard to find hi-definition photos to get good identification. This one is sorta decent. Looks like the assault style rifles are propped up towards the back. He's got a cool old pistol in there - Mauser C96 - a "broomhandle" without the broomhandle.

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/asse...uper-tease.jpg
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Old 19th June 2018, 06:00 PM   #58
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LOL... starting to remind me of my visit to the Springfield Armory museum and displays.



(finally back on the laptop... I can zoom in where the pics allow)


eta: Still not seeing a single box of ammo. Whatever this guy is, he's not a shooter.
Can't find the CNN story to see the pics William is linking.
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Old 19th June 2018, 06:04 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Now I think you are walking towards reality. It could be lower if it's dominated by war surplus junk in poor condition. Is that really a gold-inlaid shotgun and if so is it a valuable one?

None of the long guns appear to be with cases or even bags. Many of the handguns have cases but it doesn't look like very valuable stuff. I think that this guy wanted quantity and variety over expensive value or excellent condition. If the long guns were minty and/or high value they would be cased or soft-bagged, I think.
The cops don't give a **** about banging up confiscated property. Uncase them to inspect, toss them into the truck.

300 Mausers is a good start on a collection.
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Old 19th June 2018, 06:11 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
.... Many of the handguns have cases but it doesn't look like very valuable stuff....., I think.
So now you can evaluate a pistol from a grainy pic? Do I see a Smith & Wesson 629 stainless 44 mag, 8" barrel? If you say Twelve hundred dollars you can "Make My Day".

Ga head, shop Gunbroker.com

But this is all a side track. I'm wondering if he had a mental logic trail that made it OK to own all that.

Hmmm, Sheriff up for election? No, wait, ALL the dems running in CA are rabid anti-gun. They are all running against the NRA. Just a bit of cronyism I guess.

And before you spout off on how the NRA's 3M members are a minority,- Last I heard there are more gun owners in the country than there were voters in the last Presidential election. NRA is a pretty squeaky voice for that large of a bloc.
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Old 19th June 2018, 06:18 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Uncase them to inspect, toss them into the truck.
There is one soft bag bunched up next to a long gun. That's probably because none of the others were cased or bagged. Many of the pistols are cased or boxed. Why wouldn't they uncase those as well?

Quote:
300 Mausers is a good start on a collection.
I'll betcha a bunch of money that there aren't 300 Mausers there. Casebro, aren't you a gun guy?
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Old 19th June 2018, 06:28 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Jim_MDP View Post
Can't find the CNN story to see the pics William is linking.
Go to Google images and search "Manuel Fernandez guns". You might get the option of also choosing HD images.

He seems to also collect many AR-15 barrels or something that looks like that.
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Old 19th June 2018, 06:31 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Go to Google images and search "Manuel Fernandez guns". You might get the option of also choosing HD images.

He seems to also collect many AR-15 barrels or something that looks like that.


I was wondering what those things were
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Old 19th June 2018, 06:33 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
So now you can evaluate a pistol from a grainy pic?
Grainy pic and yet you can see 300 Mauser rifles. Tell me when I can start laughing.
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Old 19th June 2018, 06:53 PM   #65
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What a classless loser.

Over 500 guns, and only one break action double?

At least it's an older (looking) SxS, but still. This is no gentleman's collection.
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Old 19th June 2018, 07:25 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
What a classless loser.

Over 500 guns, and only one break action double?

At least it's an older (looking) SxS, but still. This is no gentleman's collection.

It is weird, I'll give you that.

Long arms have never got my heart racing (and those DE .50s are just silly IMO).
I'll need to see some very worrying associations before I think of this guy as more than just an eclectic collector.

It's the "arsenal" equivalent of OJ's slow speed chase.
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Old 19th June 2018, 08:44 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
He's a felon so he can't have any. The photos seem to show almost entirely long guns that look pretty old. I see some lever-action rifles and probably some shotguns.

Convicted US felon arrested with more than 500 guns in California home
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44537028
So... 500 guns off the street. A great start. Only 299,999,500 to go.
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Old 19th June 2018, 08:55 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Nobody's ever killed anyone with an old gun.
Sure they have. It's not the norm today, though.
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Old 20th June 2018, 01:45 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
This is a very eclectic collection. I think he has some guns that are older than 100 years. I'm not seeing percussion or flintlock but they could be there. Have a look.

https://s.abcnews.com/images/US/500-...in_4x3_992.jpg
I would expect the police would have put them well towards the back. Even I laugh some times when British police release a "look at all the guns we've confiscated" photo, and at least half of them are obviously cheap air weapons.
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Old 20th June 2018, 03:54 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Jim_MDP View Post
No, it's what you get for blithly suggesting life in prison (in essence) for a collector who's situation you don't know the details of.
I don't know them either.
So much for the BS of actually following and enforcing federal gun laws.
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Old 20th June 2018, 03:59 AM   #71
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I will have to bring up the investment value that the government should recompense the owner of all illegally kept busts in mind.

Next time they seize a million dollars of coke we can talk about how that was a serious coke collection and the government shouldn't confiscate it.
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Old 20th June 2018, 04:29 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
I see a lot of Soviet WWII-era Mosin-Nagant rifles. Those are cheap - they used to be under $100 each, but due to embargos and the supply drying up they're closer to $250 these days (retail). You can probably still find them for less at places like Cabela's if you're not picky about matching serial numbers and such.

I see some in the back that look like they could be M1s, but I don't know for sure.

I'm not an expert, but broadly looking at it, I don't see a collection of ~$1000 rifles, I see more of a collection of ~$200-400 rifles. If he bought 10-15 years ago, he could've made a good chunk of change if he'd sold them.
I think I see a fair few Mosin-Nagants, a Mannlicher Carcano or two, and at least one Karabiner 98k. No SMLEs, so obviously some sort of barbarian. Even if we say and average price of $500, that's still a tidy total.

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Old 20th June 2018, 06:26 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Go to Google images and search "Manuel Fernandez guns". You might get the option of also choosing HD images.

He seems to also collect many AR-15 barrels or something that looks like that.
Looks like AR-15 upper receivers. This is common in states with assault weapon restrictions and I see this in MA often too. The only part of the AR-15 considered a firearms is the lower receiver. Grandfathered lower receivers (pre-ban) can be quite expensive in these states, so often people will just have multiple uppers that are interchangeable on the lowers. A lower that might only cost $100 in an unrestricted state might easily cost $1000 in a restricted state, given the specifics of what bans are in effect and local supply of pre-ban lowers.

Unless this guy is fairly wealthy and recently went on a buying frenzy, this is likely a collection acquired over many years. Don't know when he became a felon and prohibited person, but that would have been the time to sell off. Don't know if he bought any after he became a felon either. I do have some pause in thinking he might get hammered for possessing guns that, in all likelihood, were not going to be used in violence. I don't think there's a rash of street shootings with Carcano rifles or over-under shotguns. But anyone with that many firearms must surely know that a felon cannot possess firearms, so seems like willful violation of the law.

It's impossible to speculate about value without a more thorough, detailed examination of each rifle. Like most collectibles, value varies widely based on condition and exact details of each item. My $800 CMP M1 Garand is visually identical to a $3000 rifle that might sell at auction, the difference in in the details.
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Old 20th June 2018, 07:17 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Don't know when he became a felon and prohibited person, but that would have been the time to sell off.
The articles are short on the details, but many of them mention that he was sentenced in February of 2017 for the felony. No statement of what the felony might be, or if the sentencing happened immediately after conviction (sometimes there is a bit of a delay between convicting someone and handing down the actual sentence).

ETA: I googled around a bit to look for updates, such as what the felony conviction was for. I don't see any updates. I googled the name of the fellow, but he's got a common name, lots of other people have the same name as him, so that didn't help either.


ETA again: Here's an update, but still not a lot of details. Agua Dulce felon kept hundred of guns in pack-rat conditions, officials say

Quote:
A convicted felon who was allegedly in possession of more than 550 firearms lived in pack rat conditions, with boxes, cars and cameras hoarded at his Agua Dulce property, neighbors said.
Quote:
Investigators say guns were scattered throughout the residence, as well as boxes piled up in pack-rat conditions that detectives had to navigate around as they searched.

Neighbors say Fernandez lived on the property in the 34700 block of unincorporated Agua Dulce for about 14 years. A FedEx delivery person said he has delivered ammunition to the property for years.

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Old 20th June 2018, 07:45 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
No SMLEs, so obviously some sort of barbarian.
Agreed, but there is at least one No. 4 there.
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Old 20th June 2018, 07:58 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Looks like AR-15 upper receivers. This is common in states with assault weapon restrictions and I see this in MA often too. The only part of the AR-15 considered a firearms is the lower receiver. Grandfathered lower receivers (pre-ban) can be quite expensive in these states, so often people will just have multiple uppers that are interchangeable on the lowers. A lower that might only cost $100 in an unrestricted state might easily cost $1000 in a restricted state, given the specifics of what bans are in effect and local supply of pre-ban lowers.

Unless this guy is fairly wealthy and recently went on a buying frenzy, this is likely a collection acquired over many years. Don't know when he became a felon and prohibited person, but that would have been the time to sell off. Don't know if he bought any after he became a felon either. .
That is being cited as last year, and the female accomplice seemed to be doing straw purchases.
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Old 20th June 2018, 08:43 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by TX50 View Post
Agreed, but there is at least one No. 4 there.
Not all bad, then.
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Old 20th June 2018, 01:14 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
I see a lot of Soviet WWII-era Mosin-Nagant rifles. Those are cheap - they used to be under $100 each, but due to embargos and the supply drying up they're closer to $250 these days (retail). You can probably still find them for less at places like Cabela's if you're not picky about matching serial numbers and such.

I see some in the back that look like they could be M1s, but I don't know for sure.

I'm not an expert, but broadly looking at it, I don't see a collection of ~$1000 rifles, I see more of a collection of ~$200-400 rifles. If he bought 10-15 years ago, he could've made a good chunk of change if he'd sold them.
THe value of the Mosin Nagant depends on the make.
One of the ones the Finns made from 1920 on bring higher prices then the Russian made because the Finnish rifles were of much higher quality; the barrels were much better designed and much more accurate then the Russian models.
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Old 20th June 2018, 01:56 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
THe value of the Mosin Nagant depends on the make.
One of the ones the Finns made from 1920 on bring higher prices then the Russian made because the Finnish rifles were of much higher quality; the barrels were much better designed and much more accurate then the Russian models.
Everyone knows that Albanian contract Chinese T53's are best nugget.
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Old 20th June 2018, 06:36 PM   #80
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I actually have a lot of sympathy for collectors - something that may come as a bit of a surprise to some I've interacted with previously. I've said before that I'd collect swords if I could afford it. But once this guy became ineligible to own firearms, his collection should have been turned over to a museum. Or auctioned off, or something. He ought to have done this voluntarily in order to comply with the law. That he's been busted for not doing so is the law being appropriately enforced.

Damn, it looks like he had some historical pieces, though. Shame.
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