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Old 24th May 2018, 04:46 PM   #121
Silly Green Monkey
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Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
You should be careful, there are people who would park you in and get out of their vehicle and let the air out of one of their tires and be on the phone to triple A when you come out of the store.

I may be one of them.
Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
You used the word "their" in your post not "my", I didn't pick up who "they" were. So you would do that, in a deserted parking lot in the middle of the night, where there are multiple empty handicap spots? May I suggest finding a hobby?
Not only 'their', but 'you'! Indeed there was no 'my', but that would have been even more confusing.
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Old 24th May 2018, 04:54 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
What's this stolen vehicle thing Bogative is referring to? Did I miss that in the video?
In the video you watched earlier and immediately accused the cops of being racist.

This is the guy you are siding with instead of the cops:

Quote:
“You are currently on probation, parole or bond for some of the following offenses: two counts of attempted murder, possession of a weapon during a violent crime, four counts of burglary, two counts of grand larceny with a value of $10,000 or more, two counts of break-in to auto tanks where fuel was stored,” Judge Grizzle read in open court.
Why is he on probation, you ask? Attempted murder.

Pretty extensive list of crimes he's committed. You can ignore those though and just blame it on "driving while black."


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Old 24th May 2018, 04:59 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
...in those 70-80 times you've been pulled over by law enforcement: did on any of those occasions did you tell them your name when they asked you to, and they refused to believe you and accuse you of trying to be a "bad ass"?
No, but I did have one call me a "stupid mother ******" among a few other choice explicitives. But I didn't feel entitled to hop back on my motorcycle and take off because I didn't approve his behavior.
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Old 24th May 2018, 05:04 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
No, but I did have one call me a "stupid mother ******" among a few other choice explicitives. But I didn't feel entitled to hop back on my motorcycle and take off because I didn't approve his behavior.
How many times did you refuse to give up your drivers license?
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Old 24th May 2018, 05:04 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
No, but I did have one call me a "stupid mother ******" among a few other choice explicitives. But I didn't feel entitled to hop back on my motorcycle and take off because I didn't approve his behavior.
...huh. Coincidentally Sterling didn't feel entitled to hop back into his car and take off either after he was accused of being a bad ass.
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Old 24th May 2018, 05:06 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
Not only 'their', but 'you'! Indeed there was no 'my', but that would have been even more confusing.
Your lack of command of the English language is not my problem.

In case you don't get it, I was referring to the group of people who would take action against able bodied jackasses who park in handicapped parking spots.
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Old 24th May 2018, 05:28 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
Your lack of command of the English language is not my problem.

In case you don't get it, I was referring to the group of people who would take action against able bodied jackasses who park in handicapped parking spots.
...thus breaking more significant laws than the person parking incorrectly. Hooray?
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Old 24th May 2018, 05:31 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
You are going to have to explain why the presence or non-presence of the initial officer makes any kind of difference to the encounter. Its a really weird argument to make. If, when the initial officer walked away and then we cut to the camera of one of the other officers, is it still a de-escalation?
Yes, unless the other officer is escalating the situation. The mere presence of another cop is not an escalation in my opinion.

Quote:
I would be careful before accusing a fellow poster of "lying." Why did you choose to change "detained" to "questioned?" Why do you think he was being detained? At which stage was the communicated clearly do you think?
Brown was first questioned as he approached his car. Once he tried to push his way past the cop, he was detained and then questioned. I think he was being detained because he tried to push a police officer out of his way and enter his vehicle while being lawfully questioned. I don't believe officers have to inform you when you're being detained unless you ask, I may be wrong though.


Quote:
I didn't argue it was "okay to disobey lawful commands."
Right, you just believe it is wrong for cops to escalate to physical force when Brown refused to obey a lawful command.


Quote:
After a series of escalations that they were entirely responsible for, which ultimately lead to no arrest being made because no crime was committed, which ultimately lead to the police involved getting disciplined, which ultimately will probably lead to a lawsuit which may cost the city millions.
If the citizens of Milwaukee are dumb enough to allow their law enforcement agencies to settle this out-of-court to avoid bad PR, they deserve the loss.


One other de-escalation that everybody is ignoring is when the officer told Brown multiple times that he was being recorded. To me that indicates he wanted Brown to understand any further escalation would be recorded and not to be an idiot.
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Old 24th May 2018, 05:33 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
How many times did you refuse to give up your drivers license?
Zero.
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Old 24th May 2018, 05:39 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
...huh. Coincidentally Sterling didn't feel entitled to hop back into his car and take off either after he was accused of being a bad ass.
This statement is 100% correct. He tried it before the officer said that.
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Old 24th May 2018, 05:48 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
Yes, unless the other officer is escalating the situation. The mere presence of another cop is not an escalation in my opinion.
...so "walking away" in itself is not de-escalation, as you claimed it was. Gotcha.
Quote:
Brown was first questioned as he approached his car. Once he tried to push his way past the cop, he was detained and then questioned. I think he was being detained because he tried to push a police officer out of his way and enter his vehicle while being lawfully questioned. I don't believe officers have to inform you when you're being detained unless you ask, I may be wrong though.
At what point was it explained to Brown that he was being detained for "trying to push his way past the initial cop?" At what point did the initial officer relay this information to the other officers in order so that they could tell Brown that this was the reason he was being detained?

You said what I said was "a lie." Yet here you are, guessing why you think he was detained. If we can't be sure exactly why they detained him, why are you so confident that Brown knew?

Quote:
Right, you just believe it is wrong for cops to escalate to physical force when Brown refused to obey a lawful command.
I believe that it is wrong to escalate to physical force when there are other options on the table. I shared the anecdote about the two security-orderlies earlier in the thread for a reason. In that case the subject threw a punch at the orderly and the orderly still chose not to escalate to using physical force. The officers chose to escalate to using physical force well before they should have, not only in my opinion, but in the opinion of the police force, which has chosen to discipline those involved.

Quote:
If the citizens of Milwaukee are dumb enough to allow their law enforcement agencies to settle this out-of-court to avoid bad PR, they deserve the loss.
It isn't about "bad PR." Its about bad policing.

Quote:
One other de-escalation that everybody is ignoring is when the officer told Brown multiple times that he was being recorded. To me that indicates he wanted Brown to understand any further escalation would be recorded and not to be an idiot.
ROFL!!!

Yeah, that really worked out for the cop, didn't it?

That isn't a "de-escalation" technique. In the manner it was being used it escalated tensions. I really don't think you know what de-escalation means.
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Old 24th May 2018, 05:50 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
This statement is 100% correct.
...of course that statement is 100% correct. That's why I said it.
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Old 24th May 2018, 05:55 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
In the video you watched earlier and immediately accused the cops of being racist.

This is the guy you are siding with instead of the cops:


Why is he on probation, you ask? Attempted murder.

Pretty extensive list of crimes he's committed. You can ignore those though and just blame it on "driving while black."


link
What does that have to do with this situation? You can't have your hands in your pockets when a cop's writing you a parking ticket? How paranoid are these guys anyway?
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Old 24th May 2018, 06:12 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
...thus breaking more significant laws than the person parking incorrectly. Hooray?
Please explain which laws I would be breaking.

As far as I know stopping my vehicle and letting the air out of one of the tires is not illegal.
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Old 24th May 2018, 06:16 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
As far as I know stopping my vehicle and letting the air out of one of the tires is not illegal.
...first hit on google:

https://www.chron.com/neighborhood/b...al-1906751.php

And looking further into it I would advise you that no, letting air out of the tyres of a car you don't own is not a very clever idea.
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Old 24th May 2018, 06:17 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
Please explain which laws I would be breaking.

As far as I know stopping my vehicle and letting the air out of one of the tires is not illegal.
As far as I know, parking outside of a designated parking space is worse than parking in the wrong parking space. Intentionally blocking someone in is worse than that.


In short, why don't you leave the law enforcement to the violent pigs to which that duty is assigned by our society? Fortunately, most of the time, they won't go out of their way to harass and provoke a civilian who commits a parking violation.
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Old 24th May 2018, 06:20 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
Zero.
So when approached and an officer asks "How ya doing? Got a drivers license?"

You would produce said document.

Sterling thinks he's entitled to do otherwise.
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Old 24th May 2018, 06:21 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
Yes, unless the other officer is escalating the situation. The mere presence of another cop is not an escalation in my opinion.
No? No, you're right. The mere presence of another cop is not escalation.


But why is the second (through sixth) cop there? Why did the first cop call for backup? Why did he demand Mr. Brown wait until backup showed up? It was a parking ticket. You don't need backup. You don't even need the offender to be present, much less a second cop. Why call for backup?

If Mr. Brown was planning some sort of violence against the cop, he would have done it before backup arrived, right? There's no probable cause that a crime has been committed. There's no reason for searching the car. There's nothing. It's a parking ticket. Write the ticket. Photograph the license plate. Hand it to the driver or stick it under the wiper blade. Job done case closed get on to better things. Why call for backup?


The answer should be pretty darned obvious. That cop knew there was going to be a fight.


By the way, just in case you think I'm some sort of left winger who always opposes the cops, you're wrong. You aren't even right in this one instance. I am standing with the cops in this case. The Chief of Police could see that this was wrong, and has acted accordingly. He did the right thing. I'm standing with him, and with all the other cops who condemn the actions of Officer "I own this."
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Old 24th May 2018, 06:23 PM   #139
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I've watched the first couple of minutes of the video a few times, and I have to say that I don't think that Brown was trying to force his way past the cop. I think the cop deliberately got in Brown's way then used Brown's approaching him as an excuse to become belligerent.

I've seen this move before in the LARPs I've played, where people try to abuse the rules against physically charging people to slow down opposing players by "inadvertently" stepping in front of them. It's a douchebag move, but once the idea popped into my head, the scene made a lot more sense.

Brown is heading to his car, a cop deliberately steps in front of him and tells him to back up, gives him a shove, then starts grilling him. It makes the bit at 2:00 make more sense. "I got up in your face? Really?"

Yeah, now I can't unsee it. The cop clearly steps into Brown's path into order to use Brown's "approaching" as an excuse to become belligerent.
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Old 24th May 2018, 06:24 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Random View Post
I've watched the first couple of minutes of the video a few times, and I have to say that I don't think that Brown was trying to force his way past the cop. I think the cop deliberately got in Brown's way then used Brown's approaching him as an excuse to become belligerent.
Absolutely. The idea that Brown was trying to push past the cop is fantasy.
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Old 24th May 2018, 06:25 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
As far as I know, parking outside of a designated parking space is worse than parking in the wrong parking space. Intentionally blocking someone in is worse than that.


In short, why don't you leave the law enforcement to the violent pigs to which that duty is assigned by our society? Fortunately, most of the time, they won't go out of their way to harass and provoke a civilian who commits a parking violation.
Not parking, my car is having mechanical difficulties, something slightly different.

And I am not trying to enforce the law, I would just be trying to make a douchebags day a little worse.

Some risk in that of course.
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Old 24th May 2018, 06:25 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I've got an appropriate 'while black' for this one:

'Being an Entitled, Arrogant, Aggressive Nitwit While Black.'

Minorities face real racism and unfair treatment on the daily. Thie OP story is not one of these times. What does a story like this demonstrate? That cops will apologize if it turns out the suspect is a local celebrity? PR 101. So what?
If Milo or that nazi Spencer guy had parked across multiple disabled spots and flashed their awesomeness to the cops and got treated the same way this would be a completely different thread. This would be a cheering section for the cops.

And who above said "with everything going on in this country right now"? What exactly is going on? The way I see it the media have decided that reporting on racism is the trendy thing to do and is so important that they will report on anything involving a black person and then hope there's racism. Here is another such story.

The cops apologize publicly because they are pressured to do so (see previous paragraph).

Do people here think the recent reports are due to a spike (Massive Wave) in racism?
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Old 24th May 2018, 06:29 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Do people here think the recent reports are due to a spike (Massive Wave) in racism?
Nah, this stuff has been going on for decades. It's just that ever cheaper video recording technology has allowed more and more of these incidents to be caught on camera.
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Old 24th May 2018, 06:31 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
...first hit on google:

https://www.chron.com/neighborhood/b...al-1906751.php

And looking further into it I would advise you that no, letting air out of the tyres of a car you don't own is not a very clever idea.
Letting the air out of one of the tires of my vehicle.


I'm having a flat tire.

Probably will have to say it again though.
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Old 24th May 2018, 06:43 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
Letting the air out of one of the tires of my vehicle.


I'm having a flat tire.

Probably will have to say it again though.
...ya know that these sort of rhetorical tricks don't work in a real court of law, don't you? There is a difference between an accidental flat tyre and intentionally flattening your tyre to obstruct someone.
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Old 24th May 2018, 06:47 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
Not parking, my car is having mechanical difficulties, something slightly different.

And I am not trying to enforce the law, I would just be trying to make a douchebags day a little worse.

Some risk in that of course.
Answering inconsideration with childishness is, literally, a habit one should grow out of.
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Old 24th May 2018, 06:47 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
If Milo or that nazi Spencer guy had parked across multiple disabled spots and flashed their awesomeness to the cops and got treated the same way this would be a completely different thread. This would be a cheering section for the cops.
...except of course if it had been Milo or that nazi Spencer guy who had parked across multiple disabled spots in the early hours of the morning it is very very likely they wouldn't have been treated in the same way. At most they probably would have gotten a ticket. They may even have been told just "not to do it again."

Quote:
And who above said "with everything going on in this country right now"? What exactly is going on? The way I see it the media have decided that reporting on racism is the trendy thing to do and is so important that they will report on anything involving a black person and then hope there's racism. Here is another such story.
No racism isn't "trendy." Its always existed. You've just been privileged enough that you don't have to live with it every single day.

Quote:
The cops apologize publicly because they are pressured to do so (see previous paragraph).
The cops apologised because Sterling deserved an apology.

Quote:
Do people here think the recent reports are due to a spike (Massive Wave) in racism?
You may be seeing a "spike in reports." But there isn't a "spike in incidents." This is the way its always been.
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Old 24th May 2018, 06:52 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
...ya know that these sort of rhetorical tricks don't work in a real court of law, don't you? There is a difference between an accidental flat tyre and intentionally flattening your tyre to obstruct someone.

That would be difficult to prove in court.

I'll take my chances.
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Old 24th May 2018, 06:56 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
That would be difficult to prove in court.

I'll take my chances.
...you've just admitted it here for all to see.

Its a crime: you've just conceded its a crime, and its a crime significantly worse than what you are "protesting", which was Babbylonian's contention. That you choose to "take your chances" doesn't change any of that.
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Old 24th May 2018, 06:56 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Answering inconsideration with childishness is, literally, a habit one should grow out of.
That's illegal inconsideration.

Those who think they are special and entitled to park in handicapped spots and those that defend them deserve a special place.
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Old 24th May 2018, 06:58 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
Those who think they are special and entitled to park in handicapped spots and those that defend them deserve a special place.
...nobody is defending them.
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Old 24th May 2018, 07:05 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
...you've just admitted it here for all to see.

Its a crime: you've just conceded its a crime, and its a crime significantly worse than what you are "protesting", which was Babbylonian's contention. That you choose to "take your chances" doesn't change any of that.
So what is the fine for intentionally letting the air out my own tires?

I'm sure you can cite the relevant statute.

Fines for parking in handicapped spots without a permit are a minimum of 125 bucks in Wisconsin.
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Old 24th May 2018, 07:08 PM   #153
Roboramma
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Absolutely. The idea that Brown was trying to push past the cop is fantasy.
Yeah, again, this.
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Old 24th May 2018, 07:11 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
...nobody is defending them.

Try Lobosrul5 for one.

He's defending his own actions which include parking in a handicapped spot.
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Old 24th May 2018, 07:13 PM   #155
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I certainly would not defend the parking violation. He deserved a ticket. In fact, I would go further and say he deserved a good bit of tongue-lashing for his careless sense of entitlement and his seeming willingness to think laws don't apply when he judges they don't. There''s nothing wrong with a good bout of righteous indignation here.

That has nothing to do with the fact that I also believe the cops fabricated a situation which was beyond the need for a parking violation - even a gross parking violation or a traffic stop - and I believe their demonstrated attitude could easily be perceived as capriciously belligerent and and dangerous, if not fatal, to a black man alone at night.
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Old 24th May 2018, 07:14 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
I can't comprehend why it took six cops to issue a parking ticket. Does that seem like overkill to you? And I can definitely understand why a black guy, surrounded by jumpy cops, might not want to take his hands out of his pockets.
Because he is a *********** moron?

Seriously the "he was afraid if he did what they told him he would be harmed" defense is just laughable. If the man felt that he needs a helper for daily tasks.

If a mugger pulls a gun on me and demands my wallet I'm not going to assume he is going to shoot me if I do so. One should extend the police that much courtesy, to assume they are not just out to murder you in full public view.

And if you feel that is the case, explain to me how you can morally justify not arming yourself and killing police.
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Old 24th May 2018, 07:15 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by Random View Post
Nah, this stuff has been going on for decades. It's just that ever cheaper video recording technology has allowed more and more of these incidents to be caught on camera.
Same gets said for ghosts. Doesn't make it accurate.
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Old 24th May 2018, 07:17 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
So what is the fine for intentionally letting the air out my own tires?

I'm sure you can cite the relevant statute.
...the "crime" is not "intentionally letting the air out my own tires."

Quote:
Fines for parking in handicapped spots without a permit are a minimum of 125 bucks in Wisconsin.
Thats nice. Whats the fine for intentionally blocking a legal right-of-way?
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Old 24th May 2018, 07:18 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
Try Lobosrul5 for one.

He's defending his own actions which include parking in a handicapped spot.
...this is a very unsympathetic characterization of Lobosrul5's posts.
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Old 24th May 2018, 07:19 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
So what is the fine for intentionally letting the air out my own tires?

I'm sure you can cite the relevant statute.

Fines for parking in handicapped spots without a permit are a minimum of 125 bucks in Wisconsin.
It would likely not be a fine but an obstruction charge for wasting the cops time with your stunt. I'm assuming in your scenario you tell the police you intentionally let the air out of your tire.

Otherwise your point boils down to if you lie and get away with it you don't get charged. And im sorry but I saw that on last night's episode of "no **** ".
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