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Old 27th May 2018, 12:02 AM   #241
Meadmaker
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
His only mistake was that he kept the camera on ...

and let Brown live through the encounter.
I've been kind of wondering why there has been only one body cam image released. Were the others turned off?

There are some perfectly innocent explanations for why the other cam footage might not have yet been released. There are also some not so innocent explanations. I suppose we'll probably figure it all out as the lawsuit goes forward.


ETA: And, can anyone explain why the first cop needed backup to write a parking ticket?

Last edited by Meadmaker; 27th May 2018 at 12:05 AM.
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Old 27th May 2018, 01:10 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
ETA: And, can anyone explain why the first cop needed backup to write a parking ticket?
...as I mentioned before: I don't mind the request for another "squad." The officer was on his own, I suspect it may be routine to call for backup if an encounter starts "badly" and this encounter started on the wrong foot. If I was in their place I would have called for back-up.

More than one car was overkill though, something that the initial officer acknowledges, but they didn't do anything to send the other cars away (from what I could see.)
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Old 27th May 2018, 01:14 AM   #243
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We have one person telling us about being pulled over 80 times, 80 times for ***** sake!

We have another story where a person is pulled from their car and drawn down upon by 6 officers and this is met with a “that happened to me too!” response.

There may be other such stories within the thread but those three above are passed over without much comment. It’s almost like that most Americans expect that much interaction with their LEO’s and the pulling of a service revolver so easily beggars belief to me.

What a **** place in to live.
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Old 27th May 2018, 01:25 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
I yawn at this level of hyperbole. And so do most. I suggest changing tactics.
True, it's uncommon but it's occured sufficiently often enough for people to consider that, especially if they are black and have suffered from previous "racial profiling".

It's easy to miss prejudice that's not targeted at you. Based on what I have observed as a straight white male in a job requiring a graduate degree, racism and sexism is very rare. However people I trust have told me their experiences, which tally with the wider statistics.

Mumbles has given plenty of examples of his experiences and those of his friends. There are some inadequate statistics and they've inadequate because the police forces don't all collate and report how many people they have shot.

We now have increasing video evidence that a lot of police officers in a lot of forces are at best incompetent. We do have some in-depth analyses of particular forces where by chance they managed to kill someone in such a way that it led to an investigation. I see no reason to believe that Ferguson, for example, is an outlier amongst its neighbouring forces.
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Old 27th May 2018, 01:30 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
We have one person telling us about being pulled over 80 times, 80 times for ***** sake!
...I've been pulled over twice.

The first time the police were "fishing" for something, but they didn't find anything, so they let me go.

The second time was a rather brilliant encounter. I'm a photographer. And I saw something that caught my eye on a slightly dangerous stretch of State Highway One known as the "Desert Road." (It really isn't a desert, for a good part of the year the place is full of snow.)

So I pull my car over in a spot I really shouldn't have, grabbed my camera and went to take a few quick snaps. Next thing I know a police car had pulled over, and the officer came over to talk to me.

"Are you okay bro?" The officer asked.

"I'm sorry sir" I replied, "I know I shouldn't have parked there..."

"No, all good bro. You taking some pictures?"

"Yeah, I'm sorry, I'll move my car..."

"Nah its all good bro. I was just checking to see you were okay. You take some nice pictures bro. And have a safe trip."

And with that...he was gone.
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Old 27th May 2018, 03:06 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I wonder if the cop called in the car's plates before Brown came out of the store? That would be normal procedure if he was suspicious about a car parked askew of two spaces in front of a store entrance at 2:00 in the morning, wouldn't it?

Could he have had an idea of whose car it was before Brown ever came out?
At the very start of the video, you see him walking around the car and specifically looking at the rear plates. That's before Sterling Brown comes out of the store.

And "call in"? Surely they have an app on their phone for that right now? Maybe even one that you point the camera at the license plate and does the OCR for you as well?

ETA: the time from looking at the license plate until Sterling Brown comes out of the store certainly seems enough to key in a license plate number in an app, not for phoning in.

Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
His only mistake was that he kept the camera on ...
He even seems proud of the encounter. The way he walks around and gives us a view of everything seems intentional. The way he flips the camera upward when he asks Sterling to back up, so we can see Sterling's face, certainly seems intentional. I wonder though what's with the flipping the camera 90 degrees and back, before that.
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Old 27th May 2018, 05:05 AM   #247
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I think his attitude from the start was reasonable. He asked for the officer to write him a ticket and they would all be on their way.



Why it had to go any further than that I have no idea. The officer says he first of all has to call backup and then he will think of what he will do next. What else was their to do but write a ticket and drive off?
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Old 27th May 2018, 05:06 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
Breaking even a minor law will likely prompt the police to approach you.

Refusing to obey basic commands like taking your hands out of your pockets isn't a good idea.

Why not just apologize for the parking deal, do what the officer says and move on with your evening?

I think the officer could have got exactly that if he wanted, long before the request to take his hands out of his pockets.
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Old 27th May 2018, 05:16 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
He even seems proud of the encounter. The way he walks around and gives us a view of everything seems intentional. The way he flips the camera upward when he asks Sterling to back up, so we can see Sterling's face, certainly seems intentional. I wonder though what's with the flipping the camera 90 degrees and back, before that.
It's worth pointing out that footage of even egregious misconduct doesn't always get much of anything to happen. The white guy in Arizona that was gunned down for...failure to Hokey Pokey or something was caught on bodycam, and obvious murders like John Crawford or Tamir Rice were caught on surveillance cameras. I assume they look proud because they've been repeatedly told that this sort of misconduct is something to take pride in.
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Old 27th May 2018, 06:20 AM   #250
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
At the very start of the video, you see him walking around the car and specifically looking at the rear plates. That's before Sterling Brown comes out of the store.

And we don't know what he did before he turned on his camera, and started walking around.

Quote:

And "call in"? Surely they have an app on their phone for that right now? Maybe even one that you point the camera at the license plate and does the OCR for you as well?

<snip>

Figure of speech. Would "run the plate" make you feel better? That's another one. Means the same thing.

When someone says they "dialed the phone", do you explain to them that they probably pushed buttons?
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Old 27th May 2018, 07:22 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Figure of speech. Would "run the plate" make you feel better? That's another one. Means the same thing.

When someone says they "dialed the phone", do you explain to them that they probably pushed buttons?
No, but there's no material difference between operating a dial and pushing buttons. A dial may take a bit more time, but not materially so.

But more seriously, in the recent Yale incident, the officers did have to actually phone the administration to check the student's ID. And that took 11 minutes, IIRC.
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Old 27th May 2018, 07:49 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
No, but there's no material difference between operating a dial and pushing buttons. A dial may take a bit more time, but not materially so.

But more seriously, in the recent Yale incident, the officers did have to actually phone the administration to check the student's ID. And that took 11 minutes, IIRC.

And radioing back to the police department dispatcher of a major city to "call in" a plate is materially different from phoning the admin office of a college.
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Old 27th May 2018, 02:13 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
In the video, operating a stolen vehicle. Brown, parking violation and someone who tried to push past the cop and get in his car while being lawfully questioned.
Could have been a terrorist. Who knows?
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Old 27th May 2018, 02:56 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It's almost like we expect the police to be able to interact with lawbreakers in a professional and proportionate manner. It's literally their job to interact with people engaged in anti-social behavior. If they can't do that in a dispassionate, reasonable way then they shouldn't be police officers.

So yeah, Sterling is a dickhead for parking across two handicap parking spaces. A cop ought to be able to issue him a ticket for it without causing a major incident.
Lol

More of them would be buried if they acted that way. The thugs need to learn yes sir, no sir. That wonít happen either.
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Old 27th May 2018, 03:33 PM   #255
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logger, don't beat about the bush,use "masser"rather than" sir", it fits better and doesn't make it much more obvious.
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Old 27th May 2018, 03:45 PM   #256
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I have never addressed a cop as "sir" and they wouldn't expect me to. Must be some weird kind murrican tradition.
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Old 27th May 2018, 04:54 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
logger, don't beat about the bush,use "masser"rather than" sir", it fits better and doesn't make it much more obvious.
Lol

Itís how I treat police officers. Itís called respect since I know how impossible their job is. Way to keep your sides narrative going though.
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Old 27th May 2018, 04:55 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
I have never addressed a cop as "sir" and they wouldn't expect me to. Must be some weird kind murrican tradition.
It works quite well when trying to avoid a ticket. Plus it just shows respect.
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Old 27th May 2018, 10:30 PM   #259
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It would never occur to me to be disrespectful to a cop. When Iíve been pulled over I always follow their instructions. Iím friendly and respectful. I call them sir or officer. Iíve been pulled over and thought I was in the right. Iíve argued against the ticket. I have refused permission for a search. I have refused to answer questions. But Iíve never given them ďattitude.Ē Ever. Iíve also never had a gun pulled on me, been tasered or thrown to the ground. Iím brown, btw, Hispanic, for whatever thatís worth.

It seems obvious to me that being respectful, friendly and compliant is always the best course of action no matter what ďcolorĒ you are. Iíd be willing to bet that the vast majority of the thousands of traffic stops that happen every day in every city in America go off without a hitch because of respect and compliance.

If Brown had come out and been apologetic about illegally parking and respectful from the get-go, does anyone really think that it would have gone exactly the same?


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Old 27th May 2018, 10:50 PM   #260
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It ended up with him being tasered for not showing the required respect. No, still not buying it.
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Old 28th May 2018, 12:00 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
It would never occur to me to be disrespectful to a cop. When Iíve been pulled over I always follow their instructions. Iím friendly and respectful. I call them sir or officer. Iíve been pulled over and thought I was in the right. Iíve argued against the ticket. I have refused permission for a search. I have refused to answer questions. But Iíve never given them ďattitude.Ē Ever. Iíve also never had a gun pulled on me, been tasered or thrown to the ground. Iím brown, btw, Hispanic, for whatever thatís worth.

It seems obvious to me that being respectful, friendly and compliant is always the best course of action no matter what ďcolorĒ you are. Iíd be willing to bet that the vast majority of the thousands of traffic stops that happen every day in every city in America go off without a hitch because of respect and compliance.

If Brown had come out and been apologetic about illegally parking and respectful from the get-go, does anyone really think that it would have gone exactly the same?
Sure, treating other people with respect is good. Not doing so can be a bit dickish sometimes.

Beating and tasing people is a lot worse.
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Old 28th May 2018, 02:02 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
If Brown had come out and been apologetic about illegally parking and respectful from the get-go, does anyone really think that it would have gone exactly the same?
Well, since you're really just making things up, I'll go right ahead and say it: they'd have beaten and tased him even more had he been more respectful and compliant. After all, I've already pointed out multiple people who were tackled or shot by police you literally just ran up to them or jumped around a corner, so why *wouldn't* it happen?
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Old 28th May 2018, 05:03 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Well, since you're really just making things up, I'll go right ahead and say it: they'd have beaten and tased him even more had he been more respectful and compliant. After all, I've already pointed out multiple people who were tackled or shot by police you literally just ran up to them or jumped around a corner, so why *wouldn't* it happen?
It's the soft bigotry of low expectations...of police officers. We simply can't expect them not to physically assault or even kill any civilian who doesn't show them what they - in the moment - consider the proper (read obsequious) respect. It's not their fault. It's a symptom of wearing a badge.
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Old 28th May 2018, 07:40 AM   #264
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol

More of them would be buried if they acted that way. The thugs need to learn yes sir, no sir. That wonít happen either.
ďSirĒ is a salutation used when addressing a superior. You are, or course, free to subjugate yourself to anyone you want, however, in a free society to demand other people subjugate themselves to government representatives in that fashion.
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Old 28th May 2018, 08:16 AM   #265
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It's funny to me that Americans who pride themselves on freedom think they should act subservient to police officers while in Shanghai people get in shouting matches with police and the police are generally calm and polite.

Recently the lady on my street who sells DVDs was screaming at a couple of police officers who wanted her to move. One of them got a little fired up too so I walked over and tried to calm him down (his partner was also trying to calm him down), basically I just said she's here all the time and never caused any harm to anyone, and at the same time get the lady to chill a little. But every time they started to leave she'd yell like "Who do you think you are, trying to mess with me?" etc. and then it would start up again. In the end they left and let her stay there, selling her fake DVDs in the street without any permits.

And yet in spite of that Shanghai is also one of the safest places you can go. Walk around the streets of this giant metropolis at 2 am and you will feel completely safe.
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Old 28th May 2018, 08:24 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
If Brown had come out and been apologetic about illegally parking and respectful from the get-go, does anyone really think that it would have gone exactly the same?

It certainly would not have. Officer Grams,the cop who first confronted Brown, even says so near the end of the released body cam footage.

Which is why the PD will not have a chance in Hell of winning the lawsuit, and why Grams was suspended. Grams admitted right there on tape that his actions had nothing to do with actual law enforcement duties. It had nothing to do with enforcing the law, or keeping the public safe. He didn't like the fact that Brown wasn't respectful, and so he used his police power to make Brown's life miserable.

As lomiller noted, a society in which that happens is not a free society.

Fortunately, the USA is a (mostly) free society, and when evidence of abuse of power is available, there will be a remedy available. Body cams make it much harder to carry on with that abuse of power than it used to be. A few years ago, it would have been Brown's word against the cops, and in that situation, judges and juries almost always believe the cops, but now, they've got the video, so the bogus charges against Brown had to be dropped. What saddens me is that so many people seem to think that "attitude" is somehow a justification for detention of American citizens, and they think that the police can order the citizenry about even when there is no evidence of a crime.


(Some people might be confused about that last part, but illegal parking is not a crime. It just isn't.)

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Old 28th May 2018, 09:01 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
ďSirĒ is a salutation used when addressing a superior. You are, or course, free to subjugate yourself to anyone you want, however, in a free society to demand other people subjugate themselves to government representatives in that fashion.
"Sir" also serves another purpose, which is not submissive. When interacting with someone (male) who you do not know, it is often used as a social signal that the interaction is non-hostile. If you are in a crowded place, and someone is blocking your way, it is common to say, "Excuse me, sir" to let them know that you need to pass by.

The cop could have said, "Good evening, sir. Is this your vehicle?" When asked what the problem was, the officer could have said, "Sir, your vehicle is illegally parked in a handicapped zone.", instead of "You don't see a problem here?!" Had he done that, the interaction would have gone very differently, and he wouldn't have ended up suspended without pay.
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Old 28th May 2018, 11:08 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
ďSirĒ is a salutation used when addressing a superior. You are, or course, free to subjugate yourself to anyone you want, however, in a free society to demand other people subjugate themselves to government representatives in that fashion.
Lol

And here I just look at as being respectful.
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Old 28th May 2018, 12:19 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
I have never addressed a cop as "sir" and they wouldn't expect me to. Must be some weird kind murrican tradition.
Indeed, they'd probably suspect something. I think the last time I stopped a policeman, I called him officer - there'd been a burglary which the police were attending, and I had just seen a couple of scallies running across a field.


I am polite to police officers - I try not to be rude to anyone, but that is different from a police officer feeling entitled to polite behaviour.
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Old 28th May 2018, 12:29 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol

And here I just look at as being respectful.
So why didn't the cop address Mr. Brown as "sir" when approaching him?

"Good evening, sir. Is this your vehicle?"

Last edited by Meadmaker; 28th May 2018 at 12:30 PM.
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Old 28th May 2018, 12:46 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
...I would never ever commit perjury. Where is your moral compass?
I am also not obligated to testify against myself, so in my little scenario I would never perjure myself.
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Old 28th May 2018, 01:01 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
1. You apparently don't know what civil disobedience is.
2. Restating a childish premise does not make it any less childish.

Civil disobedience is committing a crime in order to make a point. Trespassing or other similar offenses. Doesn't have to be against the state, could be against a corporation or since corporations are people too, it could be against anther person.

You are the one defending a childish premise that parking in a handicapped spot is no big deal.
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Old 28th May 2018, 02:00 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
Civil disobedience is committing a crime in order to make a point. Trespassing or other similar offenses. Doesn't have to be against the state, could be against a corporation or since corporations are people too, it could be against anther person.

You are the one defending a childish premise that parking in a handicapped spot is no big deal.
I would argue that your idea of civil disobedience is not correct, at least in terms of what it originally meant. If you use the more narrow definition that Thoreau and others used, civil disobedience is disobeying a law which compels you to disobey a higher law, or to participate in immoral behavior. There's a vast difference, for example, between violating drug laws and violating segregation laws, for example.

However, I don't think the subject is particularly relevant here.
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Old 28th May 2018, 02:36 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
<snip>

It seems obvious to me that being respectful, friendly and compliant is always the best course of action no matter what “color” you are. I’d be willing to bet that the vast majority of the thousands of traffic stops that happen every day in every city in America go off without a hitch because of respect fear and compliance.

FTFY. (And that is just the way they like it.)

Quote:

If Brown had come out and been apologetic about illegally parking and respectful from the get-go, does anyone really think that it would have gone exactly the same?


<delete stupid Tapatalk sig>

I certainly believe it probably would have. That cop had his own script already set in his mind before Brown ever came out of the store. His questions and actions pretty much proved that.

The cop might have tried to be more respectful from the get-go. What would have been wrong about that?

Do you really think that if he had it would have gone exactly the same?
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Old 28th May 2018, 02:55 PM   #275
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Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
Civil disobedience is committing a crime in order to make a point. Trespassing or other similar offenses. Doesn't have to be against the state, could be against a corporation or since corporations are people too, it could be against anther person.

You are the one defending a childish premise that parking in a handicapped spot is no big deal.
Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I would argue that your idea of civil disobedience is not correct, at least in terms of what it originally meant. If you use the more narrow definition that Thoreau and others used, civil disobedience is disobeying a law which compels you to disobey a higher law, or to participate in immoral behavior. There's a vast difference, for example, between violating drug laws and violating segregation laws, for example.

However, I don't think the subject is particularly relevant here.
Well said. I would add that committing an act of civil disobedience also requires being willing to accept the consequences of violating the law one is protesting. For example, if one thought it would be unjust to be given a ticket for illegally parking in an empty parking lot at 2 o'clock in the morning, one might try to get a ticket for doing so. It's not much of a protest if one lies about the reason for committing the offense.

That isn't what happened here of course, but the fact remains that the parking offense was a trivial one.

Last edited by Babbylonian; 28th May 2018 at 02:57 PM.
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Old 28th May 2018, 04:16 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
I am also not obligated to testify against myself, so in my little scenario I would never perjure myself.
...well I'd like to believe what you say here, but you also say this:

Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
No, my defense would be that I heard/felt something wrong, stopped to investigate and found my tire to be flat.
So its really hard to figure out your position here. You don't seem to have a position. You dodge and weave with every rebuttal.

So your new position is to take the fifth, to avoid perjuring yourself. Gotcha. Pleading the fifth because somebody parked in a disabled spot. Are you still imagining that you have the moral high-ground here? Because I have to say your imagination is extremely vivid.
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Old 28th May 2018, 04:27 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
I have never addressed a cop as "sir" and they wouldn't expect me to. Must be some weird kind murrican tradition.
...to be fair, in my anecdote with my interaction with a police officer I called the officer "sir." And I'm in New Zealand. So it really isn't a "weird kind murrican tradition." I think different people just do things differently.
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Old 28th May 2018, 05:10 PM   #278
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
It certainly would not have. Officer Grams,the cop who first confronted Brown, even says so near the end of the released body cam footage.

Which is why the PD will not have a chance in Hell of winning the lawsuit, and why Grams was suspended. Grams admitted right there on tape that his actions had nothing to do with actual law enforcement duties. It had nothing to do with enforcing the law, or keeping the public safe. He didn't like the fact that Brown wasn't respectful, and so he used his police power to make Brown's life miserable.
Yes, the police will hopefully and rightly lose the lawsuit. But really, what is that going to change? Probably nothing. All I'm saying is that respect from the get-go costs almost nothing except maybe a little bit of pride and can gain so much beyond it's cost.

Quote:
As lomiller noted, a society in which that happens is not a free society.

Fortunately, the USA is a (mostly) free society, and when evidence of abuse of power is available, there will be a remedy available. Body cams make it much harder to carry on with that abuse of power than it used to be. A few years ago, it would have been Brown's word against the cops, and in that situation, judges and juries almost always believe the cops, but now, they've got the video, so the bogus charges against Brown had to be dropped. What saddens me is that so many people seem to think that "attitude" is somehow a justification for detention of American citizens, and they think that the police can order the citizenry about even when there is no evidence of a crime.


(Some people might be confused about that last part, but illegal parking is not a crime. It just isn't.)
And again, I agree with you. It should not be this way. However, it IS this way. So while it's this way, the first thing we should all do is change our own behavior because that's the only thing we can do for sure. If the choices are, 1)Be respectful and probably avoid a hassle OR 2)Stand up for yourself and risk getting tackled, tasered and arrested the utility obviously lies with choice 1. Now, we definitely need to do something about the propensity of cops to fly off the handle if they don't get the respect they feel entitled to; but, that's a much harder problem to tackle than simply deciding to change our own behavior. Step one for us as individuals is to avoid the hassles in the first place. We, as a society, can still fight for reform in the police forces at the same time. I, for one, don't think merely suspending these bad cops is enough. They assaulted Brown for Pete's sake! They should face assault charges if we want to send a message that this **** isn't OK anymore. That's the bigger discussion we should be having -why is the police chief being so lenient and why aren't more citizens demanding more?

*<Personal anecdote you can skip if you want.>
I have a big problem with Border Patrol checkpoints that I have to stop at every time I want to leave town. Most of the time, it's nothing more than a slight delay while I answer, "yes," to the question, "are you an American citizen?" But every once in awhile an agent will ask me, "Where are you going? What is your business there." A big part of me wants to say, "Wherever I want to go and it's none of your business what I'm doing there." They have no business asking those questions. All they need to know is if I'm an American citizen. But the other part of me knows I'm risking getting moved to secondary inspection and I just want to get where I'm going -so I answer.

Is it right that I, an American citizen, have to answer questions about my movements in my own country? I don't think so. But it is what it is and while I'm in their control is not the place for me to fight that.
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Old 28th May 2018, 05:27 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Yes, the police will hopefully and rightly lose the lawsuit. But really, what is that going to change? Probably nothing. All I'm saying is that respect from the get-go costs almost nothing except maybe a little bit of pride and can gain so much beyond it's cost.

And again, I agree with you. It should not be this way. However, it IS this way. So while it's this way, the first thing we should all do is change our own behavior because that's the only thing we can do for sure. If the choices are, 1)Be respectful and probably avoid a hassle OR 2)Stand up for yourself and risk getting tackled, tasered and arrested the utility obviously lies with choice 1. Now, we definitely need to do something about the propensity of cops to fly off the handle if they don't get the respect they feel entitled to; but, that's a much harder problem to tackle than simply deciding to change our own behavior. Step one for us as individuals is to avoid the hassles in the first place. We, as a society, can still fight for reform in the police forces at the same time. I, for one, don't think merely suspending these bad cops is enough. They assaulted Brown for Pete's sake! They should face assault charges if we want to send a message that this **** isn't OK anymore. That's the bigger discussion we should be having -why is the police chief being so lenient and why aren't more citizens demanding more?

*<Personal anecdote you can skip if you want.>
I have a big problem with Border Patrol checkpoints that I have to stop at every time I want to leave town. Most of the time, it's nothing more than a slight delay while I answer, "yes," to the question, "are you an American citizen?" But every once in awhile an agent will ask me, "Where are you going? What is your business there." A big part of me wants to say, "Wherever I want to go and it's none of your business what I'm doing there." They have no business asking those questions. All they need to know is if I'm an American citizen. But the other part of me knows I'm risking getting moved to secondary inspection and I just want to get where I'm going -so I answer.

Is it right that I, an American citizen, have to answer questions about my movements in my own country? I don't think so. But it is what it is and while I'm in their control is not the place for me to fight that.
Agreed, on all counts. I know I am always polite and respectful to cops, even if they are not that way to me. As a purely practical matter, it makes my life easier.
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Old 28th May 2018, 05:46 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post


Because I have to say your imagination is extremely vivid.

You also have a vivid imagination that if I blocked someone who was illegally parked in a handicapped spot, that I would be the one arrested.

I have heard of it being done, and no, the person who blocked the able bodied person from moving his car that was illegally parked did not face any consequences.
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