IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 28th March 2018, 01:56 AM   #1
Samson
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,253
James Webb Telescope

https://phys.org/news/2018-03-nasa-n...telescope.html

I think we should all march if there is any further delay to the launch. Mankind depends on the results of James Webb and our escape to the stars, because American politicians cannot be relied on to do their duty as protectors of Earth.
Samson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th March 2018, 02:36 AM   #2
wobs
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hull
Posts: 2,293
Frustrating, but I'd rather it was right.

A bit like waiting for a new album by one of my favourite artists: I'd rather wait for it to be right than get a rushed release and it not as good.
__________________
"To vowels. They stop consonants sticking together like boiled sweets in a paper bag."
wobs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th March 2018, 02:38 AM   #3
Kid Eager
Philosopher
 
Kid Eager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,819
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
https://phys.org/news/2018-03-nasa-n...telescope.html

I think we should all march if there is any further delay to the launch. Mankind depends on the results of James Webb and our escape to the stars, because American politicians cannot be relied on to do their duty as protectors of Earth.
I think you over estimate the efficacy of marching as a solution to any of the problems described in the article.
__________________
What do Narwhals, Magnets and Apollo 13 have in common? Think about it....
Kid Eager is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th March 2018, 04:23 AM   #4
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 48,544
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
https://phys.org/news/2018-03-nasa-n...telescope.html

I think we should all march if there is any further delay to the launch. Mankind depends on the results of James Webb and our escape to the stars, because American politicians cannot be relied on to do their duty as protectors of Earth.
Thanks for that. I now realize just how unimportant JWST really is.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th March 2018, 08:56 AM   #5
phunk
Illuminator
 
phunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,127
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
https://phys.org/news/2018-03-nasa-n...telescope.html

I think we should all march if there is any further delay to the launch. Mankind depends on the results of James Webb and our escape to the stars, because American politicians cannot be relied on to do their duty as protectors of Earth.
I think you're wrong. This isn't hubble, it won't be serviceable. It has to be perfect the first time, and if they need more time to get it right, then they should have it.
phunk is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th March 2018, 10:57 AM   #6
Beelzebuddy
Philosopher
 
Beelzebuddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 8,012
Quote:
"Simply put, we have one shot to get this right before going into space," explained Thomas Zurbuchen, NASA's associate administrator of science.
I really wish NASA would stop doing this prototype-only stuff. If we can justify designing a single sun-shaded telescope operating at a lagrange point a million kilometers from Earth, why not send three and have a bit of redundancy?
Beelzebuddy is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th January 2021, 06:17 AM   #7
wobs
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hull
Posts: 2,293
Is this the first time we have been in the same year as a planned launch for JWST?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_...pace_Telescope
__________________
"To vowels. They stop consonants sticking together like boiled sweets in a paper bag."
wobs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th January 2021, 09:44 AM   #8
Pixie of key
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,280
I predict that the James Webb telescope will detect galaxies formed from the center outward ��

No pulling forces are needed to explain any phenomenon. Not on a small scale, not on a large scale.

Black hole vs. Expanding black star which emit dark expanding light / pushing force

https://youtu.be/C7qXyaxK5p8

��
__________________
http://www.onesimpleprinciple.com/l4

"Math without words is meaningless.
Words without math can have meaning."
by Maartenn100
Pixie of key is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th January 2021, 02:04 PM   #9
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
 
Gord_in_Toronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,136
Originally Posted by Pixie of key View Post
I predict that the James Webb telescope will detect galaxies formed from the center outward ��

No pulling forces are needed to explain any phenomenon. Not on a small scale, not on a large scale.

Black hole vs. Expanding black star which emit dark expanding light / pushing force

https://youtu.be/C7qXyaxK5p8

��
Surely that should be: Contacting white hole vs contracting white star that sucks in contracting heavy / pulling weakness?
__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick
Gord_in_Toronto is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th January 2021, 02:06 PM   #10
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 48,544
Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
I really wish NASA would stop doing this prototype-only stuff. If we can justify designing a single sun-shaded telescope operating at a lagrange point a million kilometers from Earth, why not send three and have a bit of redundancy?
Yeah, shame on NASA for not magically tripling, quadrupling the money Congress budgets for them!
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th January 2021, 02:25 PM   #11
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 20,395
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Yeah, shame on NASA for not magically tripling, quadrupling the money Congress budgets for them!
Yeah, the bastards.

I mean, it's not like they have to spend their money on anything else...
__________________
Up the River!

Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted]
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th January 2021, 04:16 PM   #12
Jim_MDP
Philosopher
 
Jim_MDP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: N.Cal/S.Or
Posts: 7,893
Maybe Biden can pull a "Trump" and steal the funding from Spaaaace Force!
__________________
----------------------
Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything.

"Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust.
"Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000.
Jim_MDP is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th January 2021, 04:40 PM   #13
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 48,544
Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
I really wish NASA would stop doing this prototype-only stuff. If we can justify designing a single sun-shaded telescope operating at a lagrange point a million kilometers from Earth, why not send three and have a bit of redundancy?
Giving this some more thought: I don't think we can justify it. Or if we can, it's only barely. It's definitely in the "nice to have category". If we don't send this up now, we'll send it up later. Or we'll send something else up later. Or someone else will send something up at some point.

And yes, it is possible that this will be the one that finds the cure for cancer or discovers the benevolent aliens or whatever. Maybe it'll turn out that if we'd gotten off our asses and launched seventeen of them a hundred years ago, it would have prevented the Great Depression, avoided WW2 and the Cold War, and stopped the election of Donald Trump. But I doubt it.

Cosmology isn't really something that calls for redunancy at $1bn+ per item. A large part of the justification for throwing even $10bn at it is NASA's promise that they can get it right (or at least make it work) the first time.

Too, how could you do something like the JWST without at least one prototype? Even the Apollo hardware designs went through revisions and improvements as they learned the lessons of each prototype they flew.

What'll really happen is that if/when this prototype proves itself, future researchers will consider use it as a basis for future telescopes of similar principles and design. But it doesn't really make sense to fund half a dozen all at once right now. It barely makes sense to use the one.

I hate to say it, but where investing in redundancy makes sense is in national defense. Ironically, we could probably have had redundant HSTs, as that telescope used many components and design features originally developed for reconnaissance satellites. Apparently there's a couple sets of Hubble-grade optics lying around, that could be put into orbit to replace the HST. But... NASA would rather focus on the JWST right now. And I agree with that priority.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th January 2021, 06:47 PM   #14
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
 
a_unique_person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 42,975
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Yeah, the bastards.



I mean, it's not like they have to spend their money on anything else...
Maybe if they said they want to build a space wall to keep the aliens out.
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
“Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos
a_unique_person is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2021, 09:26 AM   #15
Mikemcc
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 1,864
The only thing taking longer is George R.R. Martin finishing off A Song of Ice and Fire!
Mikemcc is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:38 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.