Merged: Money/inequalities - Part 3 / Poll - willing to work for free?

[Gaetan]

Originally Posted by RoboTimbo

If I say that I'll be a supercar test driver and yacht test driver and bikini model photographer and professional game player and have all the mansions I want if everything was free, I also won't change my mind.

When i say that i'll vote for Bernie Sanders i'll vote according my convictions while you just say that as a disgrace to support your point of view.

[RoboTimbo]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

When i say that i'll vote for Bernie Sanders i'll vote according my convictions while you just say that as a disgrace to support your point of view.

When I say I'll drive supercars and yachts and photograph bikini models, it's to show how wrong you are. When you say you'll vote for Bernie Sanders, it's a religious lie because you aren't American and can't vote for our President.

Is lying one of those "wicked things" or is it something you disgracefully do to support your religious opinion?

[Leftus]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

When i say that i'll vote for Bernie Sanders i'll vote according my convictions while you just say that as a disgrace to support your point of view.

If you find Robotimbos Scenario as unrealistic, you need to explain why since it follows your rules to the letter. The only disgrace it exposes is your inability to explain why he couldn't do what he said he would do under your system?

Supercars need to be tested. Bikini models need to be photographed. Why is his work to not be rewarded with unlimited free stuff?

[Gaetan]

Originally Posted by RoboTimbo

When I say I'll drive supercars and yachts and photograph bikini models, it's to show how wrong you are. When you say you'll vote for Bernie Sanders, it's a religious lie because you aren't American and can't vote for our President.

Is lying one of those "wicked things" or is it something you disgracefully do to support your religious opinion?

If you don't like Jésus you shouldn't give Christmas gift and do any fiesta for Christmas.

[Leftus]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

If you don't like Jésus you shouldn't give Christmas gift and do any fiesta for Christmas.

You realize that Christmas is a stolen pagan holiday, right?

The symbology is all wrong (it's clearly a springtime story, but forced into a winter narrative). The history is wrong (you do not return to your home town for a census).

Also, the Christmas tree is idolatry. Tread carefully.

[RoboTimbo]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

If you don't like Jésus you shouldn't give Christmas gift and do any fiesta for Christmas.

Isn't it your Jesus character who was made to talk about "wicked things" like lying in that novel that was plagiarized from earlier works of other weird religions?

[abaddon]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

If you don't like Jésus you shouldn't give Christmas gift and do any fiesta for Christmas.

Hahahahahahaha. You think Christmas is a christian festival. That is hilarious.

[Gaetan]

Originally Posted by RoboTimbo

Isn't it your Jesus character who was made to talk about "wicked things" like lying in that novel that was plagiarized from earlier works of other weird religions?

This is hypocrisy to give Christmas gift and celebrate on Christmas if you don't like Jesus. Christmas gifts represent the gifts given by the tree wise men to Jesus on his birthday.

[Leftus]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

This is hypocrisy to give Christmas gift and celebrate on Christmas if you don't like Jesus. Christmas gifts represent the gifts given by the tree wise men to Jesus on his birthday.

Or the gifts pagans gave to each other during the winter solstice. It's a stolen holiday, with stolen traditions. As I mentioned before, the alleged birth of Christ would have been in the spring. But they needed that time period for the alleged rebirth, so they moved it back a season.

[RoboTimbo]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

This is hypocrisy to give Christmas gift and celebrate on Christmas if you don't like Jesus. Christmas gifts represent the gifts given by the tree wise men to Jesus on his birthday.

Not really much into history, are you? I mean actual history, not weird religion history.

Christmas is when we celebrate Santa Claus's birthday and he celebrates it by bringing good boys and girls presents. If you do "wicked things" like lying, then Santa doesn't bring you anything.

[Gaetan]

Originally Posted by RoboTimbo

Not really much into history, are you? I mean actual history, not weird religion history.

Christmas is when we celebrate Santa Claus's birthday and he celebrates it by bringing good boys and girls presents. If you do "wicked things" like lying, then Santa doesn't bring you anything.

Ya but Santa means Holy and refers to God, throw your Christmas gift to garbage, that's all you can do.

[RoboTimbo]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

Ya but Santa means Holy and refers to God, throw your Christmas gift to garbage, that's all you can do.

Any that were intended for you will certainly be thrown in the garbage. Repent of your "wicked things" NOW before Santa's birthday, Gaetan! Santa is an anagram of Satan, you know.

What is your opinion of all those religious who have abused children who should be getting presents on Santa's birthday, Gaetan? Have you stopped using money yet? Have you shared your wealth with the starving children in Africa? Why do you religiously flaunt your riches of internet access and a cell phone and computer when so many do without?

[The Man]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

If you ask the opinion of people about abolish money they tell you that maybe people won't work if everything is free, but if you ask a specific person if he, she, will continue to work free of charge if in return everything is free, they say yes.

Again, working for things is not working free of charge, the charge for the work is those things. Again, by your own assertions, all you do is remove any obligation for those workers to actually get those things. Ask your "specific person" how they like that. If you can't be honest, even just to yourself, about what you claim then responses to your claims, even yours, will simply reflect back that lack of honesty.

[The Man]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

All the people i asked said they would work free of charge if in return everything is free.

And again what you haven't told them is that there will be no obligation that they actually get anything for working. You just can't seem to be honest about what you actually want in that questioning of others.

[Gaetan]

Originally Posted by RoboTimbo

Any that were intended for you will certainly be thrown in the garbage. Repent of your "wicked things" NOW before Santa's birthday, Gaetan! Santa is an anagram of Satan, you know.

What is your opinion of all those religious who have abused children who should be getting presents on Santa's birthday, Gaetan? Have you stopped using money yet? Have you shared your wealth with the starving children in Africa? Why do you religiously flaunt your riches of internet access and a cell phone and computer when so many do without?

Jesus said, this is God or money, if you are for the money you are not for God.

[RoboTimbo]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

Jesus said, this is God or money, if you are for the money you are not for God.

Which gods of the thousands are you referring to?

[Gaetan]

Originally Posted by RoboTimbo

Which gods of the thousands are you referring to?

The one above your shoulders and your creator.

[abaddon]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

Jesus said, this is God or money, if you are for the money you are not for God.

How do you know jesus said that? There are no eyewitnesses or contemporaneous reports.

[RoboTimbo]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

The one above your shoulders

You worship my head as a god? It isn't the nuttiest idea you've come up with.

Quote:

and your creator.

And you worship my mom as a god too? You do have one weird religion.

Do you worship any of the other tens of thousands of gods?

[The Man]

Originally Posted by abaddon

Originally Posted by Gaetan

Jesus said, this is God or money, if you are for the money you are not for God.

How do you know jesus said that? There are no eyewitnesses or contemporaneous reports.

Doesn't matter as Gaetan regularly, and perhaps deliberately, quite fundamentally misrepresents what was just purportedly said by Jesus. It's not "God or money" but God or Mammon. Mammon simply meaning material wealth and not specifically money.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mammon

Also it is "You cannot serve God and mammon.” so the purported prohibition is on servitude to the latter in the service of god and not the simple existence or use thereof, even in that service of god. Heck, it would be impossible to serve any god in a material way and in a material existence without the simple use and existence of material wealth. The simple fact of a material existence means material wealth (an uneven distribution of materials) exists and must be used to more evenly distribute.

[Leftus]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

Jesus said, this is God or money, if you are for the money you are not for God.

And Pink Floyd said "Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash"

I can prove not only that they said it, but they exist.

[The Man]

Originally Posted by Leftus

And Pink Floyd said "Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash"

I can prove not only that they said it, but they exist.

...oh by the way, which one's Pink?

[Leftus]

Originally Posted by The Man

...oh by the way, which one's Pink?

Given they are British and not exposed to much sunlight, all of them?

[The Man]

Well played sir.

[abaddon]

Originally Posted by The Man

Doesn't matter as Gaetan regularly, and perhaps deliberately, quite fundamentally misrepresents what was just purportedly said by Jesus. It's not "God or money" but God or Mammon. Mammon simply meaning material wealth and not specifically money.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mammon

Also it is "You cannot serve God and mammon.” so the purported prohibition is on servitude to the latter in the service of god and not the simple existence or use thereof, even in that service of god. Heck, it would be impossible to serve any god in a material way and in a material existence without the simple use and existence of material wealth. The simple fact of a material existence means material wealth (an uneven distribution of materials) exists and must be used to more evenly distribute.

Sure. Were it not for the possession of a material surplus, the good samaritan would have been unable to help anyone, after all.

I was more curious to see how gaetan might answer that.

[The Man]

Originally Posted by abaddon

Sure. Were it not for the possession of a material surplus, the good samaritan would have been unable to help anyone, after all.

I was more curious to see how gaetan might answer that.

I expect he wouldn't answer. One of the reasons he deliberately misrepresents the parable as specifically against just money instead of opposing avarice and covetousness in any form.

[Gaetan]

Originally Posted by The Man

I expect he wouldn't answer. One of the reasons he deliberately misrepresents the parable as specifically against just money instead of opposing avarice and covetousness in any form.

Money is a body trap because it put you in a situation of injustice. The less you pay for the work your neighbour and the more you get paid for your work reward you and that is always what people want. If people would be just they should pay the maximum for the work of neighbour because you want to be paid the maximum for your work as you have to love your neighbour as yourself, the just consigne, the just rule. Money is a body trap from el diablo.

[Leftus]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

Money is a body trap because it put you in a situation of injustice. The less you pay for the work your neighbour and the more you get paid for your work reward you and that is always what people want. If people would be just they should pay the maximum for the work of neighbour because you want to be paid the maximum for your work as you have to love your neighbour as yourself, the just consigne, the just rule. Money is a body trap from el diablo.

How much you get paid is a function of market value and negotiation. Everyone here has stated they would pay their neighbor market rate.

The only one here who would enslave their neighbor is you. And you think we are the unjust ones.

[The Man]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

Money is a body trap because it put you in a situation of injustice. The less you pay for the work your neighbour and the more you get paid for your work reward you and that is always what people want.

No they don't. People here have told you specifically that's not what they want. Again you are the only one here who claims anyone wants that.

Originally Posted by Gaetan

If people would be just they should pay the maximum for the work of neighbour because you want to be paid the maximum for your work as you have to love your neighbour as yourself, the just consigne, the just rule. Money is a body trap from el diablo.

You do understand that there is an entire range between "maximum" and your personal minimum of "zero"? This is called the fallacy of the excluded middle or the false dilemma.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma


Somewhere between those extremes of maximum and your zero are three simple averages. The mean, the mode and the median. The mean is what most people think of when thinking of an average. The sum of the values divided by the number a values used. However, the other two are important as well. The median simply being the mid-point between the maximum and minimum values given. While the mode is the value that is given most often. In a normal or Gaussian distribution these three averages are the same. The mode probably having the most significance here, and for varied distributions, as it would be what most similar workers are paid. As such it is possible to pay or be paid more than most without being paid the maximum in the field.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_tendency

So plenty of values, plenty of ways of figuring and paying higher values or lower values without resorting to maximums or minimums. Thus by deliberately excluding the middle range you concede the inability of your notions to deal with that rage, which is where most people actually reside, even in intent.


Additionally, as noted before, you claimed one's self and one's family are the people they should be least concerned with. Which makes, in loving your neighbor as you love yourself, your neighbor also one of the people you should be least concerned with.

Finally, even if one grants you your preferred precept, that everyone wants to screw over their neighbors. That makes what you proportionately want, 'a gift economy', the worst idea possible as it makes it as easy as possible for people to screw over their neighbors.

You continue with a self-inconsistent mess of disjointed, limited, naive and demonstrably incorrect notions, but heck, everyone needs a hobby. One would just hope you'd find a more productive and less deliberately self-aggrandizing one.

Though I do thank you for demonstrating my point of you not answering abaddon's question.

[BStrong]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

When i say that i'll vote for Bernie Sanders i'll vote according my convictions while you just say that as a disgrace to support your point of view.

iIRC you're not a U.S. citizen.

[abaddon]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

Money is a body trap because it put you in a situation of injustice. The less you pay for the work your neighbour and the more you get paid for your work reward you and that is always what people want.

Is a hammer a "body trap"? is a saw a "body trap"? Is a screwdriver a "body trap"?

Nope, those are merely tools. One could use a hammer, a saw and a screwdriver to build a house. One could also use them to go on a mass murder spree. That is not the fault of the tools, it is the fault of the person in whose hands they are.

Money is a tool in the same way. It is a mere tool. The use to which it is assigned is a function of the person wielding it. The tool knows nothing of morals any more than a hammer can tell whether it is hitting a nail or a skull.

I do not believe for a second that you are incapable of making such a simple distinction. Your magic book has no such problem. Only you seem to have a difficulty understanding that.

Originally Posted by Gaetan

If people would be just they should pay the maximum for the work of neighbour because you want to be paid the maximum for your work as you have to love your neighbour as yourself, the just consigne, the just rule. Money is a body trap from el diablo.

So what? I actually do work for free from time to time. I donate my efforts and expertise gratis to people. I can only have the ability to do so because I EARN enough money to have the ability to donate my excess time and money to deserving causes.

According to your mad claim I should simply stop all of that and quietly strave to death along with those I am helping.

Fundamentally, the idea you are proposing is utterly selfish in nature, and morally repulsive.

Since you seem to think that money is evil, let me ask a direct question.

Should I stop my monthly automatic donation of money to Syrian refugees?

[abaddon]

Originally Posted by BStrong

iIRC you're not a U.S. citizen.

Correct. He has no vote in that matter. A charitable interpretation would be that it might be how he would vote if he had one to cast.

A realistic assessment would be that porkies abound.

[Gaetan]

Originally Posted by The Man

No they don't. People here have told you specifically that's not what they want. Again you are the only one here who claims anyone wants that.




You do understand that there is an entire range between "maximum" and your personal minimum of "zero"? This is called the fallacy of the excluded middle or the false dilemma.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma


Somewhere between those extremes of maximum and your zero are three simple averages. The mean, the mode and the median. The mean is what most people think of when thinking of an average. The sum of the values divided by the number a values used. However, the other two are important as well. The median simply being the mid-point between the maximum and minimum values given. While the mode is the value that is given most often. In a normal or Gaussian distribution these three averages are the same. The mode probably having the most significance here, and for varied distributions, as it would be what most similar workers are paid. As such it is possible to pay or be paid more than most without being paid the maximum in the field.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_tendency

So plenty of values, plenty of ways of figuring and paying higher values or lower values without resorting to maximums or minimums. Thus by deliberately excluding the middle range you concede the inability of your notions to deal with that rage, which is where most people actually reside, even in intent.


Additionally, as noted before, you claimed one's self and one's family are the people they should be least concerned with. Which makes, in loving your neighbor as you love yourself, your neighbor also one of the people you should be least concerned with.

Finally, even if one grants you your preferred precept, that everyone wants to screw over their neighbors. That makes what you proportionately want, 'a gift economy', the worst idea possible as it makes it as easy as possible for people to screw over their neighbors.

You continue with a self-inconsistent mess of disjointed, limited, naive and demonstrably incorrect notions, but heck, everyone needs a hobby. One would just hope you'd find a more productive and less deliberately self-aggrandizing one.

Though I do thank you for demonstrating my point of you not answering abaddon's question.

I have no time to read such a long post, sorry. Don't forget when i read your posts i don't charge so don't abuse.

[The Man]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

I have no time to read such a long post, sorry. Don't forget when i read your posts i don't charge so don't abuse.

Clearly not a lack of time but a simple lack of willingness or perhaps even ability. Heck, charge whatever you want I doubt anyone will pay any more than they already do to address your claims and trying to educate you isn't abuse.

ETA:

Oh, if you reading a post in any way inhibited your deliberate ignorance of said post your assertion of not reading some post might actually carry some meaningful difference.

[RoboTimbo]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

Money is a body trap because it put you in a situation of injustice. The less you pay for the work your neighbour and the more you get paid for your work reward you and that is always what people want. If people would be just they should pay the maximum for the work of neighbour because you want to be paid the maximum for your work as you have to love your neighbour as yourself, the just consigne, the just rule. Money is a body trap from el diablo.

How much do you pay others? You do still use money, right? Do you think hypocrisy is one of those "wicked things" your Jesus character talked about?

[abaddon]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

I have no time to read such a long post, sorry. Don't forget when i read your posts i don't charge so don't abuse.

Wait. Is it not the case that you want everyone to do everything for free? But you want to be "paid"?
You want to be paid to read answers to your idiotic proposals?

Well there we are, everybody. Gaetan's rules apply to everyone but Gaetan.

/Thread right there. It is quite a thing when a proponent of everyone working for free thinks that his time is of sufficient money value that he need not read responses unless one pays him to read with money.

[Joecool]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

I have no time to read such a long post, sorry. Don't forget when i read your posts i don't charge so don't abuse.

Gaetan,you like to state that Jesus sent out his disiples with no money, but in John 22:36, Jesus tells that disiples that they lacked nothing, but NOW, take yiur purse with money and if you have no sword, sell your cloak buy one.

That completely debunks your assertion that Jesus is against money because he sent the disciples out without money.

[Gaetan]

I don't think it is necessary to read your stupidities.

[RoboTimbo]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

I don't think it is necessary to read your stupidities.

But you read the stupidities of your bible novel. Admittedly, you don't understand them and everything you try to interpret you get totally oppositely wrong.

Have you found anything in your bible that you've interpreted correctly? What do you think of your Jesus character actually using money like you do?

[Gaetan]

Originally Posted by RoboTimbo

But you read the stupidities of your bible novel. Admittedly, you don't understand them and everything you try to interpret you get totally oppositely wrong.

Have you found anything in your bible that you've interpreted correctly? What do you think of your Jesus character actually using money like you do?

Repeating your lies again.