Continuation Covid-19 and Politics pt 2

[zooterkin]

Originally Posted by catsmate

So you don't know how the app works.

It's not built on centralised, server based, data storage. It uses Bluetooth and the Exposure Notification Service APIs to identify when one person comes in close contact with another on a given day (based on Bluetooth ‘handshakes’ from their devices). This is only logged if people spend more than 15 minutes within two metres distance (more-or-less, it is based on BT).
Then if a person later voluntarily logs in the app that they have been diagnosed with Covid-19, anyone who was in close contact with them would be notified anonymously.

If you are confirmed to have Covid-19 the HSE will ask for consent to collect the random IDs of the persons (well devices really) your phone has logged as being within close contact. This is done via a time-limited SMS code to allow for the data to be transferred.

These identifiers are generated randomly and auto-delete after fourteen days.

There is an entirely voluntary opt-in based Covid Check-In option in the app. You can log if you're feeling healthy that day or if you're displaying any symptoms (and the symptoms checklist includes the six sets).
This will also help give the HSE an idea of the general population’s overall health without revealing specific personal information on users.

Users are asked, not compelled, to provide certain personal information: age, gender and locality. The latter is quite coarse, e.g. Dublin south city, Galway county. No specific addresses. There's a further op-in to provide a contact number or email. Again, this is voluntary.

The server loading in minimal, it's basically a peer-to-peer or decentralised model. Unlike the NHS attempt.
Almost all data sent through the app requires explicit user op-in and consent; these settings can be changed at any time.

It's in use by over a million people and has detected infection.

Good stuff. It would still require support on the server side to work outside Ireland. Offering the app for use is not the same as agreeing to support it in use in other countries.

[jimbob]

And here is the founder of the KBF movement

https://twitter.com/simondolan/statu...76971009044480

Quote:

Simon Dolan #KBF
@simondolan
Did COVID ever really exist? If it did, why are they now testing for coronavirus?
9:00 PM · Aug 3, 2020·Twitter for iPhone

[Rolfe]

Oh dear...

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by Rolfe

Oh dear...

Would you believe that the replies get increasingly stupider from then on.

SCAMDEMIC and PLANDEMIC are used...

[P.J. Denyer]

Originally Posted by catsmate

Common sense? Public duty?

Not having a procurement process that goes-:

1) Check if any of our old school chums could use an extra few quid
2) See how many millions of tax payer cash we can give them
3) When they fail to deliver, let them keep the cash

[catsmate]

Originally Posted by zooterkin

Good stuff. It would still require support on the server side to work outside Ireland. Offering the app for use is not the same as agreeing to support it in use in other countries.

Oh absolutely. But the server side aspect is (relatively) tiny; it's orders of magnitude less than a client-server architecture would need. Most of it is off-the-shelf WIS, hosted on Google/Apple cloud platforms.
That said modification has happened for NI (ongoing), Gibraltar (operational), Scotland (planning) and Wales (talks)

[Trebuchet]

Originally Posted by jimbob

And here is the founder of the KBF movement

https://twitter.com/simondolan/statu...76971009044480

Originally Posted by Rolfe

Oh dear...

Originally Posted by jimbob

Would you believe that the replies get increasingly stupider from then on.

SCAMDEMIC and PLANDEMIC are used...

Covidiocy. It's not just for Americans any more.

[gypsyjackson]

Originally Posted by catsmate

So you don't know how the app works.

It's not built on centralised, server based, data storage. It uses Bluetooth and the Exposure Notification Service APIs to identify when one person comes in close contact with another on a given day (based on Bluetooth ‘handshakes’ from their devices). This is only logged if people spend more than 15 minutes within two metres distance (more-or-less, it is based on BT).
Then if a person later voluntarily logs in the app that they have been diagnosed with Covid-19, anyone who was in close contact with them would be notified anonymously.

If you are confirmed to have Covid-19 the HSE will ask for consent to collect the random IDs of the persons (well devices really) your phone has logged as being within close contact. This is done via a time-limited SMS code to allow for the data to be transferred.

These identifiers are generated randomly and auto-delete after fourteen days.

There is an entirely voluntary opt-in based Covid Check-In option in the app. You can log if you're feeling healthy that day or if you're displaying any symptoms (and the symptoms checklist includes the six sets).
This will also help give the HSE an idea of the general population’s overall health without revealing specific personal information on users.

Users are asked, not compelled, to provide certain personal information: age, gender and locality. The latter is quite coarse, e.g. Dublin south city, Galway county. No specific addresses. There's a further op-in to provide a contact number or email. Again, this is voluntary.

The server loading in minimal, it's basically a peer-to-peer or decentralised model. Unlike the NHS attempt.
Almost all data sent through the app requires explicit user op-in and consent; these settings can be changed at any time.

It's in use by over a million people and has detected infection.

I did state I didn’t know how the Irish tech worked. Thanks for the detailed explanation, appreciated. I see it is very different. You do get used to what you use. There’s also an interesting difference between East and West to be examined there in terms of role of state vs individual.

So if it were to be available in the App Store for the UK, without UK or devolved Government co-operation, the anonymous notification should still work, just the bit involving the HSE wouldn’t. Or I suppose it might, but it would be at discretion of the Irish Government which presumably wouldn’t want to do it.

In which case, if you got a big enough group of people using it, it could be very helpful.

[gypsyjackson]

Originally Posted by jimbob

And here is the founder of the KBF movement

https://twitter.com/simondolan/statu...76971009044480

According to the Sunday Times rich list he is worth £200m. So of course he needed crowd funding of 200k for his legal challenge.

Does he think COVID and coronavirus are unrelated? Actually, forget I asked. I see from the comments that people are quoting AIDS deniers in support of their argument.

[The Don]

The UK Home Affairs Committee, a cross party group of MPs, has claimed that the government made serious errors when it came to UK border policy in the early days of the pandemic.

Quote:

The Home Affairs committee said a lack of border measures earlier in the pandemic was a "serious mistake".

It added ministers had underestimated the threat of importing the virus from Europe as opposed to Asia.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53654644

Of course the government refute these allegations and claims it was guided by "the science". Presumably English British science is different to that employed in much of the rest of the developed world.

[Tolls]

KBF?
Kayak Bass Fishing?
(Yes, that's pretty much the first thing that came up)

ETA: Ah!
Keep Britain Free!

(From one of jimbob's posts on the US covid thread).

[P.J. Denyer]

Originally Posted by Tolls

KBF?
Kayak Bass Fishing?
(Yes, that's pretty much the first thing that came up)

ETA: Ah!
Keep Britain Free!

(From one of jimbob's posts on the US covid thread).

Sounds suitably astroturfy. Have they been invited on Question Time yet?

[Tolls]

I expect there's at least one or two of them who were members of the Revolutionary Communist Party and/or contributors to Spiked (though they are, frankly, one and the same thing), so I wouldn't be surprised to see them on QT...

[Rolfe]

Sounds like they'd fit well with the elderly lunatic in 2014 who stood up and exhorted everyone to vote against Scotland's independence "in the name of Jesus!" The QT people were tweeting about what wonderful TV he was, instead of being thoroughly embarrassed.

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by Rolfe

Sounds like they'd fit well with the elderly lunatic in 2014 who stood up and exhorted everyone to vote against Scotland's independence "in the name of Jesus!" The QT people were tweeting about what wonderful TV he was, instead of being thoroughly embarrassed.

Jesus WAS NOT IN FAVOUR OF SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE

I am certain of that, so what's wrong?

[Rolfe]

[The Don]

Uncomfortable forecasts/predictions about Coronavirus this winter in Wales.

Quote:

"We could see a surge in the autumn and then a bigger peak in the winter and that's the most likely scenario that we're planning for,"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53663260

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Planning? What's that?

[Darat]

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

Planning? What's that?

Things such as:

• Where to spend the winter break.
• Which companies to award million pound contracts to.
• Who will be the scapegoat.
• And of course the most important: a catchy slogan!

[The Don]

Originally Posted by Darat

Things such as:

• Where to spend the winter break.
• Which companies to award million pound contracts to.
• Who will be the scapegoat.
• And of course the most important: a catchy slogan!

In this case it's the Welsh government so there is at least some hope that there's some actual planning going on such as:

• Reinstating Offa's Dyke
• Installing gates on the Severn Bridges
• Installing machine-gun nests on the A55
• Closing off the Llŷn Peninsula to Scousers and Mancs

[GlennB]

I'm reading that virtually none of the returnees from abroad who are supposed, suddenly, to be quarantining are actually being checked to see they are where they're supposed to be. The Telegraph describes it as 'a shambles' .

No surprises there, then.

[Darat]

Originally Posted by GlennB

I'm reading that virtually none of the returnees from abroad who are supposed, suddenly, to be quarantining are actually being checked to see they are where they're supposed to be. The Telegraph describes it as 'a shambles' .

No surprises there, then.

That is literally "as planned" - the government said there would be no checking.

[The Don]

Originally Posted by GlennB

I'm reading that virtually none of the returnees from abroad who are supposed, suddenly, to be quarantining are actually being checked to see they are where they're supposed to be. The Telegraph describes it as 'a shambles' .

No surprises there, then.

Our friends who came back from Ibiza 30 minutes after quarantine was imposed have been left to their own devices. Fortunately they have taken their responsibilities seriously and not left their home - in part because of a local support network of friends and neighbours who can run errands and do shopping for them.

Their 18 month old springer spaniel isn't happy. He'll enjoy his first walkies on Sunday.

[Rolfe]

Aberdeen went back into partial lockdown about ten minutes ago. Apparently some pubs in the city centre were "heaving" earlier in the afternoon with people desperate to get in some last drinking before the deadline (announced at lunchtime). This is probably a new gold standard for "brain dead".

Next time this happens they probably won't give any warning at all, just drink up and get out.

[The Don]

Originally Posted by Darat

That is literally "as planned" - the government said there would be no checking.

Exactly

All credit goes to the government, all blame is placed on the individual.

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Twitter thread about how Liz Truss funnelled at least £150m of public money to a company with a total value of £100, owned by one of her advisers, in the name of providing PPE - which then couldn't be used

[Captain_Swoop]

I was about to link that thread

[Rolfe]

Ah, the misogynist fox-murderer. I need to open a private browsing window, he blocked me. Nasty piece of work but clever with it.

[Mojo]

Guardian story: Labour calls for inquiry into purchase of 50m unusable face masks

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

https://twitter.com/51TJK/status/1291379935668510727

Quote:

Shared via Microsoft Edge: Starmer calls for inquiry into botched NHS face masks contract

Judicial Reviews also likely to happen- see ⁦@GoodLawProject
⁩

#ToryCorruption

Article/video embedded in tweet.

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by Rolfe

Ah, the misogynist fox-murderer. I need to open a private browsing window, he blocked me. Nasty piece of work but clever with it.

I know about the second ... what was the misogyny... I missed that because of not paying much attention

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Originally Posted by jimbob

I know about the second ... what was the misogyny... I missed that because of not paying much attention

The sole thing I can find from googling is an incident where he posted in support of a transgender athlete competing in women's rugby,* and some people objected to that. Given Rolfe's views on transgender people (which this is not the thread for discussion of), this seems like it fits.

Certainly, anything else a search of his name and that term brings up is either seemingly entirely unrelated, his speaking out against misogyny, or him defending himself from accusations of misogyny for believing that trans women should be able to compete in women's sports - that defence even taking the form of posting a long list of the ways he has and continues to work for women's rights.

*https://twitter.com/jolyonmaugham/st...799042?lang=en

Quote:

How the simple joy of sport can transcend fear and hate. Wonderful reporting.

No one - not her, her opponents, her team mates, the sporting regulatory authorities - is complaining in this piece. All are trying, with dignity and care, to adapt to a world that is not binary. A pity some of my respondents are unable to do the same.

Article embedded in first tweet.

[catsmate]

Originally Posted by gypsyjackson

I did state I didn’t know how the Irish tech worked. Thanks for the detailed explanation, appreciated. I see it is very different. You do get used to what you use.

True, I remember the Good Old Days of DB2 on VMS, managed via DCL. It worked. In fact for a few clients it still works it's just bloody difficult to connect it to anything created after about 1990.

Originally Posted by gypsyjackson

There’s also an interesting difference between East and West to be examined there in terms of role of state vs individual.

That would be an ecumenical matter....

Originally Posted by gypsyjackson

So if it were to be available in the App Store for the UK, without UK or devolved Government co-operation, the anonymous notification should still work, just the bit involving the HSE wouldn’t. Or I suppose it might, but it would be at discretion of the Irish Government which presumably wouldn’t want to do it.

Eh, I believe the app won't actually install but don't quote me on that. Certainly the data management could be handled in the same way, by the same people, as for the Irish users. But that is a large can of scorpions
AFAIK the versions for Gib, NI, Scotland (et cetera) will be modded to use those states' procedures.

Originally Posted by gypsyjackson

In which case, if you got a big enough group of people using it, it could be very helpful.

Indeed. I rather think a decentralised app with centralised, Europe-wide handling would have been far better.
But then compared to the UK's "world leading" track and trace a chimp with a phone book from 2018 would be more effective.

[catsmate]

Originally Posted by jimbob

Jesus WAS NOT IN FAVOUR OF SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE

I am certain of that, so what's wrong?

Caledonia was independent back them.Hence Hadrian's Wall to keep them in.

[catsmate]

Originally Posted by The Don

In this case it's the Welsh government so there is at least some hope that there's some actual planning going on such as:

• Reinstating Offa's Dyke
• Installing gates on the Severn Bridges
• Installing machine-gun nests on the A55
• Closing off the Llŷn Peninsula to Scousers and Mancs

Sound, sane, sensible policies for a happier Britain. Without any extremist nonsense like abolishing slavery.

[catsmate]

Originally Posted by GlennB

I'm reading that virtually none of the returnees from abroad who are supposed, suddenly, to be quarantining are actually being checked to see they are where they're supposed to be. The Telegraph describes it as 'a shambles' .

No surprises there, then.

I know someone who produced customised collars with GPS/cellular location finding and and electric shock disciplinary functions. Now they're quite expensive, and usually custom made for.....recreational users, but I'm sure she'd be willing to help.

[catsmate]

Originally Posted by Mojo

Guardian story: Labour calls for inquiry into purchase of 50m unusable face masks

It's all the fault of people with unsuitable faces.

[Rolfe]

It's a serious issue. Ear loops will only hold a mask loosely across your face. OK for a surgical mask or something to be worn to go to the shops ("my mask protects you" and so on), but a respirator mask must fit tightly to your face so the only air comes in the filter. That means elastic straps behind the head that you can pull tight when you put the mask on.

Someone has been sold a pup.

[sphenisc]

Originally Posted by Mojo

Guardian story: Labour calls for inquiry into purchase of 50m unusable face masks

Wow, that's enough for 25m Tory MPs.

[P.J. Denyer]

Originally Posted by sphenisc

Wow, that's enough for 25m Tory MPs.

Ok, that took me a second....