Riots, looting, vandalism, etc.

[HoverBoarder]

Originally Posted by portlandatheist

Just to address this one point for a moment. We went through quite a profound and pronounced period of urban revitalization from 1995-2000 ish. We built a light rail system. We built the Eastbank Esplanade and many other walking/biking access. We completely transformed the Pearl District from a drug trafficers paradise to some of the most desirable real estate in the city. We had great zoning laws to make downtown retail and restaurant friendly as possible. Sorry for a bit of a distraction but this is a real concern of many people living here.
Downtown Portland businesses, derailed by pandemic, say protests present a new challenge[Oregon live article]

That article is just tragic. I grew up next to Portland, and I remember all of those amazing improvements you are talking about. For me, the heart of the city has always been Powells Books. It has always been such a fun and quirky city where people really care and help each other.

I completely understand the hesitation of people to visit the city though. I am going to be down in the area next month, and am unsure where in the city it is safe. 23rd is probably OK, and the waterfront on the opposite side near OMSI, plus the Rose Gardens of course. I bet they are beautiful this time of year. That article just makes me want to visit and support a city that I love.

It really is sad to see people turn on each other and attack that beautiful city. It will come back to its height and better. It just needs some time to heal.

[HoverBoarder]

Originally Posted by portlandatheist

Just to address this one point for a moment. We went through quite a profound and pronounced period of urban revitalization from 1995-2000 ish. We built a light rail system. We built the Eastbank Esplanade and many other walking/biking access. We completely transformed the Pearl District from a drug trafficers paradise to some of the most desirable real estate in the city. We had great zoning laws to make downtown retail and restaurant friendly as possible. Sorry for a bit of a distraction but this is a real concern of many people living here.
Downtown Portland businesses, derailed by pandemic, say protests present a new challenge[Oregon live article]

There have been a few reported cases in Portland where Antifa/blak clad Anarchists have stalked people for long times including to their homes. It happened to the black protester the other day who was sitting on the steps with an American flag asking the protesters there not to be violent. A pretty serious offense to them apparently.

In this case according to his account, the guy kept stalking him and his friends, and when he tried to deescalate and talk to the guy, he stabbed him with a long knife in his kidney. Than people started to get raucous when the police showed up.


That kind of crap should definitely not be winning the hearts and minds of people, but the sad reality of this Country is that it still does.

[Brainster]

Originally Posted by HoverBoarder

There have been a few reported cases in Portland where Antifa/blak clad Anarchists have stalked people for long times including to their homes. It happened to the black protester the other day who was sitting on the steps with an American flag asking the protesters there not to be violent. A pretty serious offense to them apparently.

In this case according to his account, the guy kept stalking him and his friends, and when he tried to deescalate and talk to the guy, he stabbed him with a long knife in his kidney. Than people started to get raucous when the police showed up.


That kind of crap should definitely not be winning the hearts and minds of people, but the sad reality of this Country is that it still does.

Black lives matter, except when the black life is standing in the way of a white radical. There's a bit about that in this terrific photo essay:

Quote:

A deli operated by a Somali man in Minneapolis remained fully boarded up with bullet holes still visible in the partially shattered windows — caused by shots fired from an armed private security force that was summoned to protect businesses during the peak of the riots. (Residents recall with astonishment that Minneapolis Police were essentially nowhere to be found as the destruction unfolded.) According to this man, who like many others did not want to be formally interviewed, the majority of those who wreaked havoc on his establishment were white. Note that scrawled onto the plywood boarding up the Somali man’s shop is the classic anarchist “A” symbol, popular among white left-wing activists.

<snip>

Quote:

An open question is who actually initiated the arson attacks in Minneapolis. According to multiple accounts relayed to me, those who instigated these most extreme acts of destruction appeared to be white left-wing activists who were not from the area. This then consumed municipal resources and created a vacuum that enabled a portion of the local, largely black and minority populations to engage in opportunistic looting — hence the distinction I mentioned earlier. Here’s an account from a young man, Matthew, who took part in the riot at the Third Police Precinct building, which was the Ground Zero for rioting in Minneapolis. Among other observations, he remarks that those who carried out the arson attacks were exclusively white — at least according to his own first-hand observations — and at certain points, says he witnessed non-white business owners warding off white rioters.

Looking at the photos I wonder if I should have invested in plywood stocks; sure looks like business is booming.

[Faydra]

I went into downtown Portland Saturday night to join the protest.

What I saw was mostly people protesting very peacefully.

95% of the people I saw were wearing masks.

Yep, lots of white people, Portland is VERY white with a long history of white supremacy.
But, most of the white people I saw were deferring to black voices.

I saw one woman being rushed to the medic tent, her hands were hurt pretty badly, I don't know from what and I got a little taste of tear gas.

At that point I had to leave for two reasons. 1) I had taken the Max train and I had to catch the last train before I would have been stuck down there all night and 2) as it turns out I'm a big chicken ****.

[Distracted1]

Originally Posted by Brainster

Black lives matter, except when the black life is standing in the way of a white radical. There's a bit about that in this terrific photo essay:



<snip>



Looking at the photos I wonder if I should have invested in plywood stocks; sure looks like business is booming.

Another good observation from the piece:

Seldom acknowledged is that a large segment of black residents in urban areas over a certain age — and particularly recent immigrants from the Caribbean and Africa — are more-or-less small “c” conservative in their social and political attitudes. In general, they are far more outwardly repulsed by riots that ravaged their neighborhoods than the activist media liberals and leftists who so eagerly imbued these riots with some kind of coherent, obviously virtuous political meaning — a meaning that was evidently not apparent to many of the people who actually live in the affected areas. It should be noted that this “small c” conservative reaction by local minority populations doesn’t in any way mean that they would be motivated to support the Republican Party or Donald Trump — as Trump is also widely seen as an agent of chaos in his own right, who exacerbates Culture War animosities rather than alleviates them. But their baseline aversion toward Trump doesn’t negate that their sentiments diverge extremely sharply from self-appointed left/liberal journalists and activists who often claim to speak on their behalf. (For example, they were almost uniformly supportive of the deployment of National Guard to quell the chaos — unlike journalists and activists, who tend to portray the deployment of military forces to urban areas as an unambiguous sign of fascist terror.)


The people who will live with the consequences of this behavior are considerably less enthusiastic about it than the white suburban kids coming in to throw a bottle, take a selfie, and get their "I Protested" sticker.

[HoverBoarder]

https://thepostmillennial.com/radio-...tment-building

A radio host mocked Trump, and said that the protests were peaceful. "walked through it last night out of curiosity, and saw no burning, pillaging, or deaths. Chill dawg."


Than rioters destroyed his apartment building. He commented that Police told him know to stay away from the building at the moment, as there might still be explosives inside.

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status...84351776878592

Now he is saying "I feel like I need to buy a firearm right now, because clearly this is going to keep happening. Enough is enough."


The whole situation is pretty tragic, and the fact that rioters are running around throwing explosives, and you still have people defending them is even worse. However, it's hard not to find situation like this at least a little funny.

[SuburbanTurkey]

"Destroyed his apartment building" apparently means the Starbucks on the ground floor had the windows broken.

The Post Millennial, never change baby!

[Belz...]

"Destroyed".

[TahiniBinShawarma]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

"Destroyed his apartment building" apparently means the Starbucks on the ground floor had the windows broken.

The Post Millennial, never change baby!

Oh that makes it ok then.

[SuburbanTurkey]

Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma

Oh that makes it ok then.

I mean, if you want to talk about shop front vandalism, that's fine.

It's dishonest that moderate vandalism is being conflated to mean that a gang of anarchists is turning the entire city into a ThunderDome. Curious that you rely on a news outlet that is widely regarded as a willful platform for misinformation.

Originally Posted by wikipedia

(The post millennial) has been criticized for releasing misinformation and articles written by fake personas,[1] for employing an editor with ties to white supremacist-platforming and pro-Kremlin media outlets,[2] and for opaque funding and political connections.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Post_Millennial

Literally a propaganda shop, but let it rip chief.

The cops in Portland cracked a mans skull with a rubber bullet for the crime of holding a stereo above his head in the streets. He likely will have permanent brain injury. This is one of a number of permanent injuries caused by police who are clearly intentionally misusing "less lethal" ballistic weapons to maim.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/1130916...-gruesome-vid/

I hope the Starbucks window is ok.

[Beelzebuddy]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

I hope the Starbucks window is ok.

Our thoughts and prayers go to Starbucks in these trying times. They've already taken the wallets.

[Brainster]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

"Destroyed his apartment building" apparently means the Starbucks on the ground floor had the windows broken.

The Post Millennial, never change baby!

I know, right, and what an overreaction from the radio host! I mean, he's a nice, liberal guy, supported the protests and a few broken windows (not even his windows) later, he sounds like a Trump supporter.

Hmmm.

[SuburbanTurkey]

Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy

Our thoughts and prayers go to Starbucks in these trying times. They've already taken the wallets.

I threw a few dollars to a Go Fund Me for Mr. Starbuck, he's having a rough time and this little boutique coffee shop is what puts food on his family's table.

[Mike!]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

I threw a few dollars to a Go Fund Me for Mr. Starbuck, he's having a rough time and this little boutique coffee shop is what puts food on his family's table.

Nice guy. He's an immigrant too, I hear, a generation or so removed. They moved here from Caprica, I believe.

[Skeptic Ginger]

I told my neighbors these weren't riots in Seattle. A 'riot' is what happened in LA, Watts, and Detroit.

Now they are all "see, see, the police declared what was happening in Seattle a riot".

Turns out the police needed to do that in order to meet the court's exception to a council/mayor order so the police could use tear gas and flash bangs.

[Distracted1]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

I told my neighbors these weren't riots in Seattle. A 'riot' is what happened in LA, Watts, and Detroit.

Now they are all "see, see, the police declared what was happening in Seattle a riot".

Turns out the police needed to do that in order to meet the court's exception to a council/mayor order so the police could use tear gas and flash bangs.

What is the word for the destruction and looting that occasionally takes place after a sports victory?
A protest?

[Mike!]

Originally Posted by Distracted1

What is the word for the destruction and looting that occasionally takes place after a sports victory?
A protest?

Depends on who won. Sometimes it's just played off as a "rowdy celebration".

[Delphic Oracle]

Originally Posted by Mike!

Depends on who won. Sometimes it's just played off as a "rowdy celebration".

A "few isolated individuals" engaged in "excessive enthusiasm" and "unfortunately" committed "acts of public disorder"

They were given "citations" and then "released shortly thereafter."

The contrast might be made a little clearer if they provided a free trip to Burger King.

[Distracted1]

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle

A "few isolated individuals" engaged in "excessive enthusiasm" and "unfortunately" committed "acts of public disorder"

They were given "citations" and then "released shortly thereafter."

The contrast might be made a little clearer if they provided a free trip to Burger King.

In Philly and Detroit we just call them riots. Accurately.

[Stacyhs]

Rep. Gym Jordan dishonestly presented a carefully edited video during Barr's appearance today showing violent protests with reporters saying "peaceful protests". The video did not show the complete sentences which did cover the violence. It's not surprising that a scumbag like Jordan would blatantly lie like this; he's learned from the best.

[Sherkeu]

Originally Posted by Distracted1

What is the word for the destruction and looting that occasionally takes place after a sports victory?
A protest?

I believe that would be called hooliganism.

That's violence and vandalism related to sports games.

[Captain_Swoop]

In the UK if it is football related it is a riot by hooligans.
If it is Rugby or cricket related then it is 'high spirits'

Difference being. football is a mainly working class sport and the other two are favoured by the public schoolboys and the Oxbridge types.

[Ron Obvious]

Cricket: a gentlemen's game played by gentlemen.
Rugby: a thug's game played by gentlemen
Football: a gentlemen's game played by thugs

Or did I mangle that?

[Puppycow]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

I told my neighbors these weren't riots in Seattle. A 'riot' is what happened in LA, Watts, and Detroit.

Now they are all "see, see, the police declared what was happening in Seattle a riot".

Turns out the police needed to do that in order to meet the court's exception to a council/mayor order so the police could use tear gas and flash bangs.

Sorry, but you're wrong. Not all riots are of the same scale and intensity, just as not all wars are the same (not every war is World War 2, for example, there are smaller wars). Some riots may be bigger than others, but what happened in Seattle was definitely a riot.

It sounds like saying it's only a rape when a stranger forces it at gunpoint. Or it's not really stealing if the value of the stolen property is less than $200.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Sorry, but you're wrong. Not all riots are of the same scale and intensity, just as not all wars are the same (not every war is World War 2, for example, there are smaller wars). Some riots may be bigger than others, but what happened in Seattle was definitely a riot.

It sounds like saying it's only a rape when a stranger forces it at gunpoint. Or it's not really stealing if the value of the stolen property is less than $200.

Your rape analogy is a total fail.

Using your war analogy, is every battle a war?

As was noted upthread, one can call a bar brawl a riot.

Here's the bottom line: Trump keeps describing the protests in Seattle and Portland as out of control rioting, involving the whole city.

It's a BS exaggeration.

[Sherkeu]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Your rape analogy is a total fail.

Using your war analogy, is every battle a war?

As was noted upthread, one can call a bar brawl a riot.

Here's the bottom line: Trump keeps describing the protests in Seattle and Portland as out of control rioting, involving the whole city.

It's a BS exaggeration.

The LA riots did not involve the whole city. It was actually a pretty condensed area with a few spots here and there around it. I lived there at the time and watched the fires from my rooftop over 10 miles away. I had an LA address.

(I actually felt I was much closer but google maps told me different!)

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Sherkeu

The LA riots did not involve the whole city. It was actually a pretty condensed area with a few spots here and there around it. I lived there at the time and watched the fires from my rooftop over 10 miles away. I had an LA address.

(I actually felt I was much closer but google maps told me different!)

Of course they didn't. But they burned out blocks of buildings, looted widely and a lot of people died.

There were murders associated with CHOP. They weren't killed by rioters. A couple construction trailers burned. No buildings burned. I believe some have tried to burn the courthouse in Portland and a small fire was set in the police precinct in Seattle.

There's no comparison. I grew up in LA. Lived there during the Watts riots and my family still lives in the area now. One of my nephews (by marriage) and his friend drove around the LA area after the riots taking pictures, which I have seen.

People who aren't in Seattle or Portland hear that there have been riots and they think it's like the LA or Watts riots when it is no such thing, not even close.


Involving the whole city was never my criteria for a riot. I said Trump implies the whole cities of Portland and Seattle are involved.

[CapelDodger]

Originally Posted by Ron Obvious

Cricket: a gentlemen's game played by gentlemen.
Rugby: a thug's game played by gentlemen
Football: a gentlemen's game played by thugs

Or did I mangle that?

No, that's right. One point though : violence amongst rugby fans is unheard of. I think it might be to do with the physicality of the contest being played out on the field of play. Soccer is much more artificial, which creates tension rather than catharsis.

One wonders what the stand-off in Portland between rioters and feds creates in the two tribes of spectators.

[CapelDodger]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Involving the whole city was never my criteria for a riot. I said Trump implies the whole cities of Portland and Seattle are involved.

The hyperbolic rhetoric produced by the right is beyond ludicrous, and I can't believe that it's working with anyone but the already lost souls. Yes, the rioters are self-indulgent twats who should be arrested and duly processed into a harsh reality. and I hope they will be. It's not ubiquitous, it's not expanding, it's not even widespread in Portland, and the threat of rabid anarchism fuelled by "truly evil" Democrats has been grossly exaggerated. I predict it will end in a yawn (except for those unlucky enough to be caught caught up in the rut).


What has happened is that the Triumvirate has tipped its hand. This was their trial run and it's flopped, but we know who the muscle is now - the definitely rabid Border Patrol. Sad.

[Puppycow]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Your rape analogy is a total fail.

I'm not endorsing that view of rape; I'm saying it's a ridiculous way to define rape. Just like it's ridiculous to say that it isn't a riot unless it matches Watts, LA or Detroit in the amount of destruction and mayhem.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Puppycow

I'm not endorsing that view of rape; I'm saying it's a ridiculous way to define rape. Just like it's ridiculous to say that it isn't a riot unless it matches Watts, LA or Detroit in the amount of destruction and mayhem.

You ignored the analogy of yours I did say was valid, big wars/little wars.

So is a battle a war? Or is there a qualitative difference in addition to the quantitative difference?

[Distracted1]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

You ignored the analogy of yours I did say was valid, big wars/little wars.

So is a battle a war? Or is there a qualitative difference in addition to the quantitative difference?

SAT question, maybe.

Battle is to War what

Riot is to _________
a) rebellion
b) civil unrest
c) insurrection
d) all of the above

I think you are comparing the wrong nouns.

[SuburbanTurkey]

Daniel Perry, the man who shot and killed Garrett Foster at a BLM protest in Austin openly fantasized about killing protesters on Twitter.

According to witnesses on the scene, he initiated the confrontation by driving his car dangerously into the crowd. No witnesses have corroborated his claim that Foster ever raised his rifle or threatened the shooter in any way. Open carrying a rifle is lawful in Texas.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/28/us/au...ess/index.html

https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/man...-says-attorney

Below is a dubious source, but it contains screenshots of Perry's now deleted twitter account:

https://tribuneofthepeople.news/2020...arrett-foster/

[CapelDodger]

Originally Posted by HoverBoarder

ttps://thepostmillennial.com/radio-host-dunks-on-trump-by-claiming-seattle-riots-are-peaceful-then-rioters-torched-his-apartment-buildingh

A radio host mocked Trump, and said that the protests were peaceful. "walked through it last night out of curiosity, and saw no burning, pillaging, or deaths. Chill dawg."

Have you any reason to believe that the protests he was commenting on weren't peaceful?

Quote:

Than rioters destroyed his apartment building.

An excllent example of the ludicrously hyperbolic rhetoric I referred to previously (Post Millenial had it as "torched his apartment building" when in reality some windows were broken). The fact that you feel the need to engage in it demonstrates that you don't actually have anything real to work with.

Quote:

He commented that Police told him know to stay away from the building at the moment, as there might still be explosives inside.

Those would be fireworks, which are low-explosives.

Quote:

Now he is saying "I feel like I need to buy a firearm right now, because clearly this is going to keep happening. Enough is enough."

If that's true he's over-reacting.

Quote:

The whole situation is pretty tragic, and the fact that rioters are running around throwing explosives ...

They're throwing fireworks, and not even serious ones. They are low-explosives technically. Throwing explosives is what serious rioters did in 70's Belfast and Derry. Get a grip (and not just on your pearls).

Quote:

... and you still have people defending them is even worse.

Who's defending them?

When Gallard reported on peaceful protests in June they were peaceful protests. That's not defending rioters. Give an example of somebody defending rioters.

Quote:

However, it's hard not to find situation like this at least a little funny.

You're behaviour is amusing me no end, I'll give you that.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Fed troops are withdrawing from Portland. A peaceful demonstration ensues with the protesters policing themselves.

Guardian: Portland sees peaceful night of protests following withdrawal of federal agents

Quote:

Protesters in support of Black Lives Matter once again rallied near the federal courthouse that became a flashpoint, and the scene of nightly battles amid the swirl of teargas, after Donald Trump dispatched agents to end what he called anarchy in the city after weeks of demonstrations.

But in the absence of the federal officers, Thursday night’s protest passed off without major incident or intervention by the police.

[Trebuchet]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Fed troops are withdrawing from Portland. A peaceful demonstration ensues with the protesters policing themselves.

Guardian: Portland sees peaceful night of protests following withdrawal of federal agents

FAKE NEWS!!!!!

[Sherkeu]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Fed troops are withdrawing from Portland. A peaceful demonstration ensues with the protesters policing themselves.

So the protesters could have policed themselves to be peaceful protesters... but chose not to before today?
Or did the fire-bombing faction decide to leave?

eta:
Is someone following the destructive dangerous rioters to see where they are off to next? I hope so!

eta2: why say 'troops'? Was the military there?

[Safe-Keeper]

Originally Posted by Sherkeu

So the protesters could have policed themselves to be peaceful protesters... but chose not to before today?
Or did the fire-bombing faction decide to leave?

eta:
Is someone following the destructive dangerous rioters to see where they are off to next? I hope so!

eta2: why say 'troops'? Was the military there?

So the police could have left at any time without the sky falling... but didn't do so before today?

Is anyone following those faceless stormtroopers who abducted peaceful protesters in unmarked vans, to see where they're off to next? No? All right, then.

Why say fire-bombing faction? Were there terrorists there?

[No Other]

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

Is anyone following those faceless stormtroopers who abducted peaceful protesters in unmarked vans, to see where they're off to next? No? All right, then.

There needs to be a method of identification of these government troops. I am not suggesting embroidering on their names and addresses yet there absolutely needs to be a method for tracking and punishing wrongful and/or illegal actions. This is like watching Stars Wars Storm Troopers or the Wizard of Oz flying chimps. Some sort of hologram could easily be applied.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

So the police could have left at any time without the sky falling... but didn't do so before today?

Is anyone following those faceless stormtroopers who abducted peaceful protesters in unmarked vans, to see where they're off to next? No? All right, then.

Why say fire-bombing faction? Were there terrorists there?

Touché.

They weren't "police". So what does that leave, something in between police and troops? These were supposedly military contractors from Homeland Security, prison guards and border guards.

Federal guards?

Examples: USA Today: Homeland Security requests more troops at U.S.-Mexico border

Book on HSA

Quote:

Homeland security is an important extension of the Army’s historical role of providing military support to civilian authorities. The Army will be called on to assist the lead federal agency, the Department of Homeland Security, in meeting a wide range of demands for consequence management and recovery of public order and critical services.

I'm comfortable calling them federal troops.