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Old 14th October 2020, 09:13 AM   #361
psionl0
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
You're denying half the things you said, making up new definitions whenever you realise something you said didn't make sense, and refusing to acknowledge you're arguing things happened that didn't, and when you get called on it suddenly it's everybody else's fault for being too pedantic. You've painted yourself into a corner, and now you're blaming the architect for putting the door in the wrong place.
I have been consistent throughout. Anybody who quotes the bible, paraphrases the bible, makes statements consistent with the bible or indicates concurrence with what is written is the bible is to be labeled "homophobic" and punished.

Because I haven't used this long form every time I have posted, you have searched for an absent phrase in each post to try and say I meant something else.
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Old 14th October 2020, 09:17 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I have been consistent throughout. Anybody who quotes the bible, paraphrases the bible, makes statements consistent with the bible or indicates concurrence with what is written is the bible is to be labeled "homophobic" and punished.
You've said that 'Christian beliefs are "homophobic and transphobic" and must be outlawed' and that 'She wasn't sacked for simply being a Christian but because she criticized a government educational policy'. These are copy-and-paste quotes from your own posts, and they are not consistent with what you claim you've been consistently saying.

Dave
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Old 14th October 2020, 09:22 AM   #363
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I'm still not clear why someone should be allowed to be anti-gay or trans, just 'cos mebbe it says something like that in the version of the bible which has finally come down to us. Nor why the wording currently used, after however many translations of whatever accuracy, should take precedence over laws made by democratic governments (which in the UK, as has been repeatedly pointed out, contains senior christians).

If someone could clear that one up for me it would be a help...
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Old 14th October 2020, 10:55 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King View Post
I'm still not clear why someone should be allowed to be anti-gay or trans, just 'cos mebbe it says something like that in the version of the bible which has finally come down to us. Nor why the wording currently used, after however many translations of whatever accuracy, should take precedence over laws made by democratic governments (which in the UK, as has been repeatedly pointed out, contains senior christians).

If someone could clear that one up for me it would be a help...
I completely agree. Being a bigot is fine if your special book says so. In-fact it's not just fine, you have protection under law and can sue people who take umbrage at it. It's disgusting.
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Old 14th October 2020, 10:57 AM   #365
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
OK, no quotes about sex change operations nor identifying as the opposite sex. Did I fall into your trap?
Trap?



I merely asked you to source your evidence.
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Old 14th October 2020, 10:59 AM   #366
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I have been consistent throughout. Anybody who quotes the bible, paraphrases the bible, makes statements consistent with the bible or indicates concurrence with what is written is the bible is to be labeled "homophobic" and punished.

Because I haven't used this long form every time I have posted, you have searched for an absent phrase in each post to try and say I meant something else.
Punished by who and certainly not in the UK.
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Old 14th October 2020, 11:02 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King View Post
I'm still not clear why someone should be allowed to be anti-gay or trans, just 'cos mebbe it says something like that in the version of the bible which has finally come down to us. Nor why the wording currently used, after however many translations of whatever accuracy, should take precedence over laws made by democratic governments (which in the UK, as has been repeatedly pointed out, contains senior christians).

If someone could clear that one up for me it would be a help...
They have been “grandfathered” in, not based on any principle as the reason is simply they have been the views of the established churches over centuries.
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Old 14th October 2020, 11:12 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
She didn't post any Bible quotes and it's not outlawed to quote the Bible since ministers and priests do it here every Sunday.

Of course, your respond doesn't answer the question. So no amount of reading her posts will tell me how YOU concluded something

You sir are talking through a hole in your head.

In his head?
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Old 14th October 2020, 11:12 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
I suspect psionl0's definitions of the words 'quoting' and 'outlawed' are as unconventional as psionl0's definition of the word 'belief'.

Dave

Apparently 'Capital Crime' too


Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
She also committed the capital crime of starting a petition to uphold the rights of parents to have their children educated in line with their religious beliefs.
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Old 14th October 2020, 11:16 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I have been consistent throughout...
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Old 14th October 2020, 11:23 AM   #371
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The religious have the right to hold and express their beliefs, but LGBT folk have the right to live their lives without having to endure hate speech and persecution. When rights conflict, the courts have to decide which takes precedence.
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Old 14th October 2020, 11:39 AM   #372
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
The religious have the right to hold and express their beliefs, but LGBT folk have the right to live their lives without having to endure hate speech and persecution. When rights conflict, the courts have to decide which takes precedence.
Bingo!

And that is what the relevant bits of human rights rules, quoted by the tribunal, say...

It's almost like some people don't want to know what rules actually apply in the UK and Europe, but want to trot out the tired "victimised christian" routine and apply it to countries where it clearly doesn't happen.
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Old 14th October 2020, 11:52 AM   #373
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Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King View Post
Bingo!

And that is what the relevant bits of human rights rules, quoted by the tribunal, say...

It's almost like some people don't want to know what rules actually apply in the UK and Europe, but want to trot out the tired "victimised christian" routine and apply it to countries where it clearly doesn't happen.
Straight from the CLC's secret Handbook.
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Old 14th October 2020, 09:02 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Trap?



I merely asked you to source your evidence.
Nobody questions that the bible (especially OT) contains prohibitions against homosexual acts or cross dressing. As for other forms of transgenderism, they weren't an issue in those times but if they were then a reasonable person would suppose that they are off the cards too.

Why you would suddenly want me to dig out the quotes to prove it is beyond me.
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Old 14th October 2020, 10:43 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Nobody questions that the bible (especially OT) contains prohibitions against homosexual acts or cross dressing. As for other forms of transgenderism, they weren't an issue in those times but if they were then a reasonable person would suppose that they are off the cards too.

Why you would suddenly want me to dig out the quotes to prove it is beyond me.
But this god of yours is all powerful and all knowing, and being all knowing, he must be able to see into the future. He should have known that transgenderism would raise its ebil head in that future, and have pre-emptively written ahead in the bibble to account for it.
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Last edited by smartcooky; 14th October 2020 at 10:46 PM.
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Old 14th October 2020, 10:51 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
That's not clear cut, although atheism can fall under the equalities act's definition of beliefs I doubt someone would be able to claim that those beliefs were part and parcel of their "philosophical beliefs" and therefore are protected from discrimination in employment.
I think this is conflating 2 concepts under employment law.

"Discrimination" is around beliefs and other protected characteristics.

"Unfair dismissal" is around whether the sacking is justified under the facts of the case.

The key difference is that there is a cap on damages for unfair dismissal, but not for discrimination; which is why almost every claim by a woman for unfair dismissal will also include something for sex discrimination.
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Old 14th October 2020, 11:35 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
But this god of yours is all powerful and all knowing, and being all knowing, he must be able to see into the future. He should have known that transgenderism would raise its ebil head in that future, and have pre-emptively written ahead in the bibble to account for it.
The bible doesn't mention electricity, nuclear energy, internet, motor cars, etc etc etc either.

You can take that as proof that there is no god if you wish but an equally valid hypothesis is that this god is more all powerful and all knowing than you are and had good reason to avoid revealing these future developments ahead of time.
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Old 14th October 2020, 11:37 PM   #378
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Anybody who quotes the bible, paraphrases the bible, makes statements consistent with the bible or indicates concurrence with what is written is the bible is to be labeled "homophobic" and punished.

Can you cite any authority for that?
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Old 14th October 2020, 11:56 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Can you cite any authority for that?
Count the number of posters in this thread who haven't said that just the facebook posts alone prove that the woman in question is "homophobic" and her sacking is justified (it won't take long).

I realize that she wasn't dismissed because she is homophobic. Instead, it was decided that a facebook post pointing out the incompatibility of the relations program and biblically based teaching was an act of "gross misconduct".
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Old 15th October 2020, 12:00 AM   #380
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Count the number of posters in this thread who haven't said that just the facebook posts alone prove that the woman in question is "homophobic" and her sacking is justified (it won't take long).

I realize that she wasn't dismissed because she is homophobic. Instead, it was decided that a facebook post pointing out the incompatibility of the relations program and biblically based teaching was an act of "gross misconduct".

The opinions of posters in this thread are not legal precedents. You need to cite legislation or case law.
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Old 15th October 2020, 01:20 AM   #381
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Count the number of posters in this thread who haven't said that just the facebook posts alone prove that the woman in question is "homophobic" and her sacking is justified (it won't take long).
Nice conjunction there. There are plenty of posters saying that her facebook posts demonstrate her homo- and transphobia, but who have been questioning whether that alone justified her sacking; Darat and me, to name but two. But we don't align with your prejudices, so you've pretended we're saying something different all along.

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Old 15th October 2020, 01:54 AM   #382
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This school employee complained on Facebook that official government policy specifying what should be taught in schools contradicts the Bible. I can see only two possible reactions to that complaint:

1. Agree that the Biblical teaching that homosexuals and transexuals are abominations can be taught in schools, thus giving her right to express her religious beliefs precedence over the right of LGBT children (and children of LGBT adults) not to be subjected to hate speech.

2. Say "tough".

Did making that complaint justify her dismissal from her position? It's a question for the courts, but I'd personally be very uneasy about someone with those beliefs being in such a position.
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Old 15th October 2020, 02:06 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
The opinions of posters in this thread are not legal precedents. You need to cite legislation or case law.
I'm guessing that you don't regard a tribunal ruling as part of case law.
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Old 15th October 2020, 03:24 AM   #384
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I have been consistent throughout. Anybody who quotes the bible, paraphrases the bible, makes statements consistent with the bible or indicates concurrence with what is written is the bible is to be labeled "homophobic" and punished.
You keep saying it, but you haven't shown this is anything other than a bizarre misinterpretation of what is actually going on. Given the vast amount of evidence to the contrary then it is a ridiculous claim. She worked in a CofE school where the bible would be quoted and paraphrased on a daily basis and statements consistent with the bible and indicating concurrence with the bible would be not only commonplace but probably part of the school's core values and principles.
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Old 15th October 2020, 03:26 AM   #385
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Straight from the CLC's not so secret Handbook.
FTFY!

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Old 15th October 2020, 03:29 AM   #386
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Nobody questions that the bible (especially OT) contains prohibitions against homosexual acts or cross dressing. As for other forms of transgenderism, they weren't an issue in those times but if they were then a reasonable person would suppose that they are off the cards too.

Why you would suddenly want me to dig out the quotes to prove it is beyond me.
I wanted you to provide your evidence, I am unaware of any quotes from the Bible that supported your claim that I referenced but whilst I know a lot of biblical quotes it may have been one I don’t know.

You thinking it is a “trap” for me to ask you to provide the evidence for your claim is very puzzling to me.

I will now conclude you can’t actually provide any evidence for your claim.
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Old 15th October 2020, 03:30 AM   #387
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Nobody questions that the bible (especially OT) contains prohibitions against homosexual acts or cross dressing.
That's not true either.
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Old 15th October 2020, 03:32 AM   #388
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Originally Posted by Aber View Post
I think this is conflating 2 concepts under employment law.

"Discrimination" is around beliefs and other protected characteristics.

"Unfair dismissal" is around whether the sacking is justified under the facts of the case.

The key difference is that there is a cap on damages for unfair dismissal, but not for discrimination; which is why almost every claim by a woman for unfair dismissal will also include something for sex discrimination.
That’s not the key difference, the key difference is that you can raise a complaint about (some forms of) discrimination regardless of your employment status, but you can only make a claim for unfair dismissal if you have been dismissed.
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Old 15th October 2020, 03:32 AM   #389
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Count the number of posters in this thread who haven't said that just the facebook posts alone prove that the woman in question is "homophobic" and her sacking is justified (it won't take long).

I realize that she wasn't dismissed because she is homophobic. Instead, it was decided that a facebook post pointing out the incompatibility of the relations program and biblically based teaching was an act of "gross misconduct".
You are aware that here Facebook posts aren't part of the Bible ???
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Old 15th October 2020, 03:33 AM   #390
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Count the number of posters in this thread who haven't said that just the facebook posts alone prove that the woman in question is "homophobic" and her sacking is justified (it won't take long).

I realize that she wasn't dismissed because she is homophobic. Instead, it was decided that a facebook post pointing out the incompatibility of the relations program and biblically based teaching was an act of "gross misconduct".
Decided by the school, not by the court, remember she didn’t think she had a winnable case for religious discrimination.
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Old 15th October 2020, 03:37 AM   #391
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I wanted you to provide your evidence, I am unaware of any quotes from the Bible that supported your claim that I referenced but whilst I know a lot of biblical quotes it may have been one I don’t know.
Deuteronomy 22.5 is the quote that prohibits women from wearing men's garments or men from wearing a woman's cloak. Bras and panties appear to be fine. Also, Galacians 3.28 says that there is no male and female, which seems to suggest that transitioning is fine by God.

I'd also be interested to know whether the subject of our discussion covers her head while praying, which according to 1 Corinthians 11.3-15 dishonours her head, or whether she thinks that doesn't matter because the Bible only mentions it once.

Everybody picks and chooses from the Bible to suit their prejudices. It contradicts itself so reliably that it can be used to support pretty much any belief system, however dire.

Dave
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Old 15th October 2020, 03:38 AM   #392
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I'm guessing that you don't regard a tribunal ruling as part of case law.
She withdrew her claim of unfair dismissal based on religious discrimination. The last of her claims to be judged was that the process the school used in its disciplinary SOP discriminated against her based on her religious beliefs. The court decided it didn’t.
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Old 15th October 2020, 04:46 AM   #393
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
The bible doesn't mention electricity, nuclear energy, internet, motor cars, etc etc etc either.

You can take that as proof that there is no god if you wish but an equally valid hypothesis is that this god is more all powerful and all knowing than you are and had good reason to avoid revealing these future developments ahead of time.
How is that an equally valid hypothesis?
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Old 15th October 2020, 05:22 AM   #394
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I'm guessing that you don't regard a tribunal ruling as part of case law.

Can you cite one that has ruled that anybody who quotes the bible, paraphrases the bible, makes statements consistent with the bible or indicates concurrence with what is written is the bible is to be labeled "homophobic" and punished?
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Old 15th October 2020, 09:01 AM   #395
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I am unaware of any quotes from the Bible that supported your claim
This is the first time you have used the word "claim" in our exchange. What claim is that? What exactly do you want me to prove?
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Old 15th October 2020, 09:02 AM   #396
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
How is that an equally valid hypothesis?
Neither is provable. You can make up any theory you like about a god - especially one you believe doesn't exist.
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Old 15th October 2020, 09:10 AM   #397
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It's all OK, the boss has a religious prohibition of employing religiously motivated bigots. So she had to be fired to preserve his religious freedom.
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Old 15th October 2020, 09:11 AM   #398
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Neither is provable. You can make up any theory you like about a god - especially one you believe doesn't exist.
That doesn't make them equally valid.
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Old 15th October 2020, 10:05 AM   #399
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
That doesn't make them equally valid.
So why is one more valid than the other?
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Old 15th October 2020, 10:21 AM   #400
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
So why is one more valid than the other?
Parsimony.

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