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Old 10th October 2020, 01:28 AM   #281
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
You should have highlighted "regardless of their content" which I didn't post or intend to post.
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Old 12th October 2020, 01:58 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post

Succinctly put.

I am even more confused than you however.
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Old 12th October 2020, 02:27 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post

IT’S A CONSPIRACY!
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Old 12th October 2020, 11:00 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
IT’S A CONSPIRACY!
You're not far off. Pretending that you don't understand the person you are debating with (so that you can imply that they are posting nonsense) is one of the oldest tricks in the book

Most readers who don't have an agenda would understand what I posted.
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Old 12th October 2020, 11:02 PM   #285
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Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post

My thought exactly.
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Old 12th October 2020, 11:05 PM   #286
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
You're not far off. Pretending that you don't understand the person you are debating with (so that you can imply that they are posting nonsense) is one of the oldest tricks in the book
And if someone really doesn't understand the nonsensical drivel you're posting?

Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Most readers who don't have an agenda would understand what I posted.
Trying to poisoning the well again I see!

Seriously, what you posted looks a lot like a Jasper Carrot joke - specifically, the one about the guy who collects motor vehicle insurance claim forms.
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Old 12th October 2020, 11:43 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
And if someone really doesn't understand the nonsensical drivel you're posting?
There is no unmoderatable response to that.
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Old 12th October 2020, 11:50 PM   #288
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
You're not far off. Pretending that you don't understand the person you are debating with (so that you can imply that they are posting nonsense) is one of the oldest tricks in the book

Most readers who don't have an agenda would understand what I posted.
Of course instead of indulging in being the victim you could have cleared it up in a civil manner. I genuinely did not understand what you were trying to say.

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Old 13th October 2020, 03:08 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
Of course instead of indulging in being the victim you could have cleared it up in a civil manner. I genuinely did not understand what you were trying to say.
You'll get used to it!
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Old 13th October 2020, 05:01 AM   #290
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
You're not far off. Pretending that you don't understand the person you are debating with (so that you can imply that they are posting nonsense) is one of the oldest tricks in the book

Most readers who don't have an agenda would understand what I posted.

What “agenda” would that be?
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Old 13th October 2020, 05:38 AM   #291
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This should cheer them up, it’s about someone successfully taking their employer to a tribunal for religious harassment: https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...-raffle-switch
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Old 13th October 2020, 10:43 AM   #292
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 11.
This has gone well beyond practising discrimination. It is now becoming unlawful to express biblical views if they are politically incorrect.
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Old 13th October 2020, 11:55 AM   #293
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
This has gone well beyond practising discrimination. It is now becoming unlawful to express biblical views if they are politically incorrect.
Another lie.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with the Law per se. Expressing Biblical views, even if reprehensible and objectionable, is not unlawful. If it were, then Higgs could have been prosecuted for her posts!
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Old 13th October 2020, 12:11 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Another lie.
It matters not a whit what words have been passed by Parliament. If you can be sacked for expressing biblically based views then you are being punished for your views and that makes your views unlawful.
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Old 13th October 2020, 01:19 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Seriously, what you posted looks a lot like a Jasper Carrot joke - specifically, the one about the guy who collects motor vehicle insurance claim forms.
I know exactly the one you mean as well!
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Old 13th October 2020, 01:21 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
It matters not a whit what words have been passed by Parliament. If you can be sacked for expressing biblically based views then you are being punished for your views and that makes your views unlawful.
I can be sacked for not turning up to work. That doesn't make it unlawful.

Dave
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Old 13th October 2020, 01:51 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
It matters not a whit what words have been passed by Parliament. If you can be sacked for expressing biblically based views then you are being punished for your views and that makes your views unlawful.
Do you have a problem with someone being punished for homophobic views? Being punished for homophobic views is the textbook definition of lawful.

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Old 13th October 2020, 03:39 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
I can be sacked for not turning up to work. That doesn't make it unlawful.
It may not be illegal to absent yourself from work without reason but lawful and legal are two different things.
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Old 13th October 2020, 04:07 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
Do you have a problem with someone being punished for homophobic views?
Yes. Suppression reeks of "something to hide" and gives these views more credibility to some.
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Old 13th October 2020, 04:24 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Yes. Suppression reeks of "something to hide" and gives these views more credibility to some.
Removing and punishing hateful speech gives more credibility than not removing it?

Your 'more credibility' thingy is irrelevant.

BTW the bible thumping bitch is still totally free to spam 1000 Facebook groups with her hateful views. She just does not work at the school anymore. Guess she has a lot more time now. She was never suppressed in any way and she is not being suppressed right now.

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Old 13th October 2020, 06:02 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
It matters not a whit what words have been passed by Parliament. If you can be sacked for expressing biblically based views then you are being punished for your views and that makes your views unlawful.
Nope. Again, you are wilfully mis-characterising what happened so that it fits your religious agenda.

Higgs was not sacked for her biblical views, she was sacked for expressing homophobic and trans-phobic views against the stated policy of her employers.

The test for this is, would an Atheist holding those same views also have been sacked for expressing them? The answer is yes, so that eliminates any chance of it being religious discrimination. Case closed.
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Old 13th October 2020, 06:36 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Nope. Again, you are wilfully mis-characterising what happened so that it fits your religious agenda.

Higgs was not sacked for her biblical views, she was sacked for expressing homophobic and trans-phobic views against the stated policy of her employers.

The test for this is, would an Atheist holding those same views also have been sacked for expressing them? The answer is yes, so that eliminates any chance of it being religious discrimination. Case closed.
This is the key point, well summarized. Conversely a deeply religious person who does not choose to express hateful views could continue to teach.
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Old 14th October 2020, 12:28 AM   #303
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Higgs was not sacked for her biblical views, she was sacked for expressing homophobic and trans-phobic views against the stated policy of her employers.
You posted the texts of her facebook posts yourself. So you know that this is a lie.

She was sacked for explaining what the Government Consultation into making Relations Education mandatory in primary schools and Relationships and Sex Education mandatory in secondary schools was about and for pointing out that because of this program, expressing and teaching fundamental Christian beliefs would in practice be forbidden. She also committed the capital crime of starting a petition to uphold the rights of parents to have their children educated in line with their religious beliefs.

None of that is "homophobic" but it was labeled as such because mere criticism of government policy should not be a sackable offence.

And it is not the schools "policy" to follow government edicts. They have no choice in the matter.
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
The test for this is, would an Atheist holding those same views also have been sacked for expressing them? The answer is yes, so that eliminates any chance of it being religious discrimination. Case closed.
Do you really think that all atheists believe that suppressing the bible is more important than the freedom to comment on and criticize the government?
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Old 14th October 2020, 12:42 AM   #304
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Higgs was not sacked for her biblical views,
True, this is the one clear conclusion from the tribunal.


Quote:
she was sacked for expressing homophobic and trans-phobic views against the stated policy of her employers.
Up to a point.

She was sacked by the school for posting something which could indicate she held those views.

The tribunal did not conclude that she actually held those views, or that she could be fairly dismissed for expressing them. The judgement goes a long way in implying that the dismissal for gross misconduct was unfair and that saying "biological sex is real" is protected; however that was not what the tribunal was being asked to judge on.
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Old 14th October 2020, 12:47 AM   #305
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
None of that is "homophobic"
Just to be clear. Is it your view that what she said is NOT homophobic and transphobic, or that it is but that wasn't why she was sacked.
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Old 14th October 2020, 01:06 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
This has gone well beyond practising discrimination. It is now becoming unlawful to express biblical views if they are politically incorrect.
Where?
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Old 14th October 2020, 01:12 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
It matters not a whit what words have been passed by Parliament. If you can be sacked for expressing biblically based views then you are being punished for your views and that makes your views unlawful.
Are you unaware that we have many state funded religious schools in the UK? How are they possible. given your claim?
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Old 14th October 2020, 01:14 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
It may not be illegal to absent yourself from work without reason but lawful and legal are two different things.
Now you're just making up new definitions to suit your argument.

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Old 14th October 2020, 01:16 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Do you really think that all atheists believe that suppressing the bible is more important than the freedom to comment on and criticize the government?
Congratulations on the most outrageous non sequitur in the thread so far.

Dave
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Old 14th October 2020, 01:17 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
You posted the texts of her facebook posts yourself. So you know that this is a lie.

She was sacked for explaining what the Government Consultation into making Relations Education mandatory in primary schools and Relationships and Sex Education mandatory in secondary schools was about and for pointing out that because of this program, expressing and teaching fundamental Christian beliefs would in practice be forbidden. She also committed the capital crime of starting a petition to uphold the rights of parents to have their children educated in line with their religious beliefs.

None of that is "homophobic" but it was labeled as such because mere criticism of government policy should not be a sackable offence.

And it is not the schools "policy" to follow government edicts. They have no choice in the matter.

Do you really think that all atheists believe that suppressing the bible is more important than the freedom to comment on and criticize the government?
She was sacked for homophobic bs. Deal with it. (Or pray to your god to make things right,lol)

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Old 14th October 2020, 01:19 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Nope. Again, you are wilfully mis-characterising what happened so that it fits your religious agenda.

Higgs was not sacked for her biblical views, she was sacked for expressing homophobic and trans-phobic views against the stated policy of her employers.

The test for this is, would an Atheist holding those same views also have been sacked for expressing them? The answer is yes, so that eliminates any chance of it being religious discrimination. Case closed.
And to be clear, she first of all claimed to have been dismissed because of her religious beliefs however she withdrew that claim before it could be judged.

She has not in fact ever argued in court that she was dismissed because of religious beliefs.

She has argued that the process used to dismiss her discriminated against her because of her religious beliefs, the court decided that no such discrimination happened.
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Old 14th October 2020, 01:22 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
This is the key point, well summarized. Conversely a deeply religious person who does not choose to express hateful views could continue to teach.
It really isn't in this case. She withdrew her claim for unfair dismissal because of her religious beliefs and has not resubmitted such a claim.

As ever the CLC is being dishonest in their press materials.
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Old 14th October 2020, 01:34 AM   #313
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Originally Posted by Aber View Post
True, this is the one clear conclusion from the tribunal.







Up to a point.



She was sacked by the school for posting something which could indicate she held those views.



The tribunal did not conclude that she actually held those views, or that she could be fairly dismissed for expressing them. The judgement goes a long way in implying that the dismissal for gross misconduct was unfair and that saying "biological sex is real" is protected; however that was not what the tribunal was being asked to judge on.
This is the key point.

I still think she would win a tribunal based on her dismissal for gross misconduct, however that could still establish that her posts were grounds for disciplinary action just didn't rise to the level of gross misconduct and of course the CLC doesn't want that, that's why I think "she" withdrew that claim last year.

psionio - are you unaware that the UK is a religious state with a couple of established Christian churches? That CofE has bishops in one of our legislative houses? That the head of state is also the head of the largest Christian church? That we state fund religious schools? Are you really claiming all those are now expressing illegal views because of a single employment tribunal decision that the process used to discipline her did not discriminate against her based on her religious beliefs?
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Old 14th October 2020, 01:37 AM   #314
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Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
She was sacked for homophobic bs. Deal with it. (Or pray to your p-god to make things right,lol)
FTFY
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Old 14th October 2020, 01:38 AM   #315
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
FTFY
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Old 14th October 2020, 01:42 AM   #316
smartcooky
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
And to be clear, she first of all claimed to have been dismissed because of her religious beliefs however she withdrew that claim before it could be judged.

She has not in fact ever argued in court that she was dismissed because of religious beliefs.

She has argued that the process used to dismiss her discriminated against her because of her religious beliefs, the court decided that no such discrimination happened.
This might be a distinction with differences, but they are minor and inconsequential. Any way you slice it, she was arguing that she lost her job because she expressed her religious beliefs on LGBTQ+.
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Old 14th October 2020, 01:51 AM   #317
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Do you really think that all atheists believe that suppressing the bible is more important than the freedom to comment on and criticize the government?
Again, you dishonestly mis-characterize the arguments of others to suit your personal religious agenda. This debate has absolutely nothing to do with atheists suppressing the bible.

Again, with more detail, I ask the question, "would an Atheist teaching at a school who expressed the same homophobic and transphobic views that Higgs expressed, be dismissed for doing so?"

Answer the question.

No dodging!
No evasion!
No rephrasing the question!
No strawmanning!
No mis-characterization!
No god-splaining!
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If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
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Old 14th October 2020, 01:56 AM   #318
Mojo
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
It may not be illegal to absent yourself from work without reason but lawful and legal are two different things.
Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Now you're just making up new definitions to suit your argument.

Dave

I think he’s borrowed that from the FOTLers.
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Old 14th October 2020, 02:07 AM   #319
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Again, you dishonestly mis-characterize the arguments of others to suit your personal religious agenda. This debate has absolutely nothing to do with atheists suppressing the bible.

Again, with more detail, I ask the question, "would an Atheist teaching at a school who expressed the same homophobic and transphobic views that Higgs expressed, be dismissed for doing so?"

Answer the question.

No dodging!
No evasion!
No rephrasing the question!
No strawmanning!
No mis-characterization!
No god-splaining!
Just the basic facts...Let me show you where it hurts.
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Old 14th October 2020, 02:11 AM   #320
psionl0
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Again, with more detail, I ask the question, "would an Atheist teaching at a school who expressed the same homophobic and transphobic views that Higgs expressed, be dismissed for doing so?"
Such a stupid question but to answer you, if an atheist teaching at the school made the same facebook posts as she did then I suspect that the school would respond in the same way - sack her.

She wasn't sacked for simply being a Christian but because she criticized a government educational policy.
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