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Old 14th October 2020, 02:12 AM   #321
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Such a stupid question but to answer you, if an atheist teaching at the school made the same facebook posts as she did then I suspect that the school would respond in the same way - sack her.

She wasn't sacked for simply being a Christian but because she criticized a government educational policy.
So you agree that there was no religious discrimination here?

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Old 14th October 2020, 02:14 AM   #322
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Now you're just making up new definitions to suit your argument.
I know the difference between the terms "lawful" and "legal" but feel free to quote a reference that says there is no difference.

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
So you agree that there was no religious discrimination here?
Did I say there was?
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Old 14th October 2020, 02:15 AM   #323
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post

She wasn't sacked for simply being a Christian but because she criticized a government educational policy.
Is it your view then that had she criticised class sizes, how maths is taught or the presence of French on the curriculum that she would also have been sacked?
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Old 14th October 2020, 02:17 AM   #324
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Did I say there was?
You said that it was now official that Christian beliefs are homophobic and transphobic and must be outlawed, so yes, you did.
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Old 14th October 2020, 02:22 AM   #325
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I know the difference between the terms "lawful" and "legal" but feel free to quote a reference that says there is no difference.
How about you post a source that explains how not going to work is unlawful?

Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Did I say there was?
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
It's official - Christian beliefs are "homophobic and transphobic" and must be outlawed.
Now, I'm sure you can come up with some sophistry that allows you to insert a fag paper between that statement and an accusation of religious discrimination, but do you really think anyone will believe it?

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Old 14th October 2020, 02:24 AM   #326
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
You said that it was now official that Christian beliefs are homophobic and transphobic and must be outlawed, so yes, you did.
That's not religious discrimination.

One can still (presumably) call themself a Christian or go to church without being persecuted. But dare to mention the biblical view point on homosexuality and suddenly you are "homophobic" and must be punished.
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Old 14th October 2020, 02:28 AM   #327
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Did I say there was?
Yes. You did

Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
It's official - Christian beliefs are "homophobic and transphobic" and must be outlawed.
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
If you can be sacked for expressing biblically based views then you are being punished for your views and that makes your views unlawful.
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
This has gone well beyond practising discrimination. It is now becoming unlawful to express biblical views if they are politically incorrect.
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Old 14th October 2020, 02:28 AM   #328
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Now, I'm sure you can come up with some sophistry that allows you to insert a fag paper between that statement and an accusation of religious discrimination, but do you really think anyone will believe it?
LOL Do you really think that you can poison the well that easily?
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Old 14th October 2020, 02:28 AM   #329
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
That's not religious discrimination.

One can still (presumably) call themself a Christian or go to church without being persecuted. But dare to mention the biblical view point on homosexuality and suddenly you are "homophobic" and must be punished.
Welcome to reality, where most people are against homophobic bs. Why aren't you?
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Old 14th October 2020, 02:32 AM   #330
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
I've tried similar lines before. The retort I got back was God is infallible. He gave man free will. It is man who has used this free will to corrupt the world.
That was a mistake, right there!
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Old 14th October 2020, 02:33 AM   #331
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Now, I'm sure you can come up with some sophistry that allows you to insert a fag paper between that statement and an accusation of religious discrimination, but do you really think anyone will believe it?

I saw what you did there!
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Old 14th October 2020, 02:49 AM   #332
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Again, with more detail, I ask the question, "would an Atheist teaching at a school who expressed the same homophobic and transphobic views that Higgs expressed, be dismissed for doing so?"
Based on the tribunal judgement:

Yes, the school would dismiss them, and the school would have been judged to have unfairly dismissed them.
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Old 14th October 2020, 03:00 AM   #333
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
That's not religious discrimination.
There you have it, folks. An official policy that religious beliefs must be outlawed is not, by psionl0's definition, religious discrimination. It seems like the only aim here is to avoid losing an argument by denying any possible position, thus making the argument impossible to refute due to its complete absence of content.

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Old 14th October 2020, 03:01 AM   #334
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
It seems like the only aim here is to avoid losing an argument by denying any possible position, thus making the argument impossible to refute due to its complete absence of content.

Dave
So, business as usual...
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Old 14th October 2020, 03:05 AM   #335
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
That's not religious discrimination.
Yes it is.

Quote:
One can still (presumably) call themself a Christian or go to church without being persecuted. But dare to mention the biblical view point on homosexuality and suddenly you are "homophobic" and must be punished.
Then it's not Christian beliefs that are outlawed but at best homophobic and transphobic views.

And in actual fact, as pointed out previously, Christian beliefs are actually protected in law to a far greater extent than non-religious expressions of the same views.
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Old 14th October 2020, 03:14 AM   #336
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
There you have it, folks. An official policy that religious beliefs must be outlawed is not, by psionl0's definition, religious discrimination. It seems like the only aim here is to avoid losing an argument by denying any possible position, thus making the argument impossible to refute due to its complete absence of content.
If you didn't delete the word "expressing" from my argument then this wouldn't make sense.
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Old 14th October 2020, 03:16 AM   #337
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Yes it is.
No it isn't.

Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Then it's not Christian beliefs that are outlawed but at best homophobic and transphobic views.
No, it is quoting the bible that has effectively been outlawed.
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Old 14th October 2020, 03:21 AM   #338
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
If you didn't delete the word "expressing" from my argument then this wouldn't make sense.
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
It's official - Christian beliefs are "homophobic and transphobic" and must be outlawed.
Having a bit of a problem finding the word "expressing" here. Perhaps you left it under the sofa cushions.

Dave
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Old 14th October 2020, 03:21 AM   #339
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
This might be a distinction with differences, but they are minor and inconsequential. Any way you slice it, she was arguing that she lost her job because she expressed her religious beliefs on LGBTQ+.
They really aren't.

Being sacked for your religious/philosophical beliefs (beliefs as laid out in the equalities act) is illegal in UK domestic law and also at the level of the ECHR.

And the CLC knows this to be the case. So how do they try and gain support for their wanting the country to be controlled by their interpretation of Christianity? They go after cases like this one, when you look at their agenda you'll see it is not about being honest but being able to spin cases to build support for their paranoid beliefs.

Given the poor reporting on this case I can well imagine folk who have a casual interest would read it and think that a Christian has been "unfairly" discriminated against because of her religious beliefs.

What they hoped to do with this case is what they have done, which is to create an "impression" that she was discriminated against because of her "Christian" beliefs.

That's why it is important to be careful and stick to the actual facts, not the spin that the CLC is applying to it.
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Old 14th October 2020, 03:24 AM   #340
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post


No, it is quoting the bible that has effectively been outlawed.
Nope, it's stating homophobic views that have been outlawed. Long ago. You lost again. Don't you get tired of lying and falsely accusing others of deleting words from your quoted posts?

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Old 14th October 2020, 03:26 AM   #341
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Is it your view then that had she criticised class sizes, how maths is taught or the presence of French on the curriculum that she would also have been sacked?
Did you miss the mass arrest and imprisonment of the entire membership of the National Union of Teachers last year when they passed a few motions criticising the government's policies?

And the recent deportation to the gulags of all the thousands of teachers criticizing the governments' policies on schools reopening after the (first) pandemic lockdown?
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Old 14th October 2020, 03:27 AM   #342
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Did you miss the mass arrest and imprisonment of the entire membership of the National Union of Teachers last year when they passe a few motions criticising the government's policies?

And the recent deportation to the gulags of all the thousands of teachers criticizing the governments' policies on schools reopening after the (first) pandemic lockdown?
All these good people we lost So many schools unable to function because most of the teachers were sent to Siberia by the SJWPC moralists.

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Old 14th October 2020, 03:30 AM   #343
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Originally Posted by Aber View Post
Based on the tribunal judgement:

Yes, the school would dismiss them, and the school would have been judged to have unfairly dismissed them.
That's not clear cut, although atheism can fall under the equalities act's definition of beliefs I doubt someone would be able to claim that those beliefs were part and parcel of their "philosophical beliefs" and therefore are protected from discrimination in employment.
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Old 14th October 2020, 03:32 AM   #344
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
No it isn't.


No, it is quoting the bible that has effectively been outlawed.
Can you point me to the scripture quotes that mention trans people?
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Old 14th October 2020, 03:35 AM   #345
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Having a bit of a problem finding the word "expressing" here. Perhaps you left it under the sofa cushions.

Found it for you.
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
If you can be sacked for expressing biblically based views then you are being punished for your views and that makes your views unlawful.
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
This has gone well beyond practising discrimination. It is now becoming unlawful to express biblical views if they are politically incorrect.
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Old 14th October 2020, 03:37 AM   #346
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Found it for you.
Neither of which makes your statement that 'It's official - Christian beliefs are "homophobic and transphobic" and must be outlawed' go away. Would you like to retract it, or are you simply planning to keep on pretending that you never said it?

Dave
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Old 14th October 2020, 03:38 AM   #347
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Can you point me to the scripture quotes that mention trans people?
I find it difficult to believe that after all these years in the Religious section you haven't seen anybody put up quotes from the bible that prohibit homosexuality or men wearing womens' clothing.
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Old 14th October 2020, 03:40 AM   #348
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Neither of which makes your statement that 'It's official - Christian beliefs are "homophobic and transphobic" and must be outlawed' go away. Would you like to retract it, or are you simply planning to keep on pretending that you never said it?
I know that you would prefer it to mean that I am saying that even if you secretly believe biblical teachings then you have committed a crime but I am not going to indulge you.
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Old 14th October 2020, 03:46 AM   #349
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I know that you would prefer it to mean that I am saying that even if you secretly believe biblical teachings then you have committed a crime but I am not going to indulge you.
I see, so you're saying that secret beliefs are not beliefs, and when you say 'Christian beliefs are "homophobic and transphobic" and must be outlawed' you're not using 'beliefs' to mean 'things that people believe' but 'things that people say'. Well, that's perfectly clear.

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Old 14th October 2020, 03:48 AM   #350
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I find it difficult to believe that after all these years in the Religious section you haven't seen anybody put up quotes from the bible that prohibit homosexuality or men wearing womens' clothing.
As I thought no quotes about trans people.
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Old 14th October 2020, 03:56 AM   #351
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I find it difficult to believe that after all these years in the Religious section you haven't seen anybody put up quotes from the bible that prohibit homosexuality or men wearing womens' clothing.
You could of course just show us these quotes.
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Old 14th October 2020, 04:16 AM   #352
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
No it isn't.
yes, it is.

Quote:
No, it is quoting the bible that has effectively been outlawed.
How have you concluded that given that a) she didn't quote the bible b) it isn't outlawed?
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Old 14th October 2020, 04:19 AM   #353
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
How have you concluded that given that a) she didn't quote the bible b) it isn't outlawed?
I suspect psionl0's definitions of the words 'quoting' and 'outlawed' are as unconventional as psionl0's definition of the word 'belief'.

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Old 14th October 2020, 04:26 AM   #354
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
I see, so you're saying that secret beliefs are not beliefs, and when you say 'Christian beliefs are "homophobic and transphobic" and must be outlawed' you're not using 'beliefs' to mean 'things that people believe' but 'things that people say'. Well, that's perfectly clear.
Fail.
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Old 14th October 2020, 04:28 AM   #355
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
As I thought no quotes about trans people.
OK, no quotes about sex change operations nor identifying as the opposite sex. Did I fall into your trap?
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Old 14th October 2020, 04:30 AM   #356
psionl0
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
yes, it is.
No it isn't - times infinity.

Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
How have you concluded that given that a) she didn't quote the bible b) it isn't outlawed?
Read the facebook quotes for yourself.
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Old 14th October 2020, 06:15 AM   #357
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
No it isn't - times infinity.


Read the facebook quotes for yourself.
She didn't post any Bible quotes and it's not outlawed to quote the Bible since ministers and priests do it here every Sunday.

Of course, your respond doesn't answer the question. So no amount of reading her posts will tell me how YOU concluded something

You sir are talking through a hole in your head.
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Old 14th October 2020, 07:07 AM   #358
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Does the church she belongs to still teach the homophobic views?
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Old 14th October 2020, 07:43 AM   #359
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
She didn't post any Bible quotes.
If you want to be precisely technical about it, she didn't quote any chapter and verse from the bible. she pointed out in the facebook post that as a result of the proposed relationship education, "expressing and teaching fundamental Christian beliefs would in practice be forbidden".

In the Guardian article, she is quoted as saying “As a Christian, I believe it is morally necessary to speak out in defence of the Bible truth when false and harmful doctrines are being promoted".
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Old 14th October 2020, 07:49 AM   #360
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
If you want to be precisely technical about it,


You're denying half the things you said, making up new definitions whenever you realise something you said didn't make sense, and refusing to acknowledge you're arguing things happened that didn't, and when you get called on it suddenly it's everybody else's fault for being too pedantic. You've painted yourself into a corner, and now you're blaming the architect for putting the door in the wrong place.

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