Evangelicals and Trump - after the Washington riots

dann · 8th January 2021, 11:07 AM

Quote:

With the White House in the background, Pastor Paula White leads a prayer Wednesday, Jan. 6, 2021, in Washington, at a rally in support of President Donald Trump called the "Save America Rally." (AP Photo/Jacquelyn Martin) AP
Trump supporters clash with police near White House as they protest election results (MarketWatch, Jan. 6, 2021)

I don't think Paula White is one of the White House staffers who have abandoned Trump after the attack on the Capitol Building, and she condemned the violence only after Trump had told people to go home (and that they were right about the election having been stolen): Paula White-Cain on Twitter

But what will the Evangelicals be doing politically now that Trump has lost all power? Will they stick to him after the riots? After he's out the White House?

An op-ed in WP hopes for this:

Quote:

The collapse of one disastrous form of Christian social engagement should be an opportunity for the emergence of a more faithful one. And here there are plenty of potent, hopeful Christian principles lying around unused by most evangelicals: A consistent and comprehensive concern for the weak and vulnerable in our society, including the poor, immigrants and refugees. A passion for racial reconciliation and criminal justice reform, rooted in the nonnegotiable demands of human dignity. A deep commitment to public and global health, reflecting the priorities of Christ’s healing ministry. An embrace of political civility as a civilizing norm. A commitment to the liberty of other people’s religions, not just our own. An insistence on public honesty and a belief in the transforming power of unarmed truth.
Trump’s evangelicals were complicit in the desecration of our democracy (WP, Jan. 7, 2021)

But that doesn't really seem to be of this world ...

GDon · 8th January 2021, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by dann

But what will the Evangelicals be doing politically now that Trump has lost all power? Will they stick to him after the riots? After he's out the White House?

Is there anything to stick to once Trump is out of the White House? They'll wait for the next person who promises them things to come along.

If anything, it's shown that there is still such a thing as 'the Evangelical vote'. Trump was a popularist thug, but an incompetent one. Prepare for someone worse than Trump -- a popularist competent thug -- to exploit the Evangelical vote to come along.

Skeptic Ginger · 8th January 2021, 03:13 PM

One thing is for sure, expect rationalizations that this was God's plan, they just aren't clear yet what the goal is.

Trebuchet · 8th January 2021, 05:48 PM

Off to Right Wing Watch now, will report back....

ETA1: Michele Bachmann.

ETA2, from the night before.

dejudge · 8th January 2021, 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by GDon

Is there anything to stick to once Trump is out of the White House? They'll wait for the next person who promises them things to come along.

If anything, it's shown that there is still such a thing as 'the Evangelical vote'. Trump was a popularist thug, but an incompetent one. Prepare for someone worse than Trump -- a popularist competent thug -- to exploit the Evangelical vote to come along.

The majority of people who voted for the incompetent one were not Evangelicals.

dann · 9th January 2021, 04:24 AM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

Off to Right Wing Watch now, will report back....

ETA1: Michele Bachmann.

ETA2, from the night before.

Most of those aren't Evangelicals, but ...

Quote:

California pastor Ché Ahn, a leader of the dominionist New Apostolic Reformation, called this week the most important in U.S. history. “I believe that this week we’re going to throw Jezebel out and Jehu’s gonna rise up, and we’re gonna rule and reign through President Trump and under the lordship of Jesus Christ.” (In the Bible, Jehu overthrew the wicked queen Jezebel and slaughtered her family; Pentecostal Christians often refer to the “Jezebel spirit” as a demonic influence in the world.) Ahn said the election was “stolen” from Trump in “the most egregious fraud” in U.S. history. He predicted that Trump would be president for four more years and the U.S. would become a “red” nation “in perpetuity.”

However, the question is what they'll be doing after Trump.
1) What will they do merely for opportunistic reasons?
2) What will be the Biblical interpretation of what they do? Why didn't the Trump-as-a-modern-day-Cyrus interpretation work out the way it was supposed to?

turingtest · 10th January 2021, 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

Off to Right Wing Watch now, will report back....

ETA1: Michele Bachmann.

ETA2, from the night before.

I guess none of those folks got the "heal the divide" memo the GOP is so anxiously passing around as its face (ntm ass)-saving policy going forward. But of course, even if they knew of it, they wouldn't pay any attention, self-righteousness is too potent a high- remember what Barry Goldwater said?

Quote:

Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.

Resume · 11th January 2021, 08:10 PM

There is a photo of a person standing on the gallows platform erected at the Capitol Sunday wearing a sweatshirt that read:

Faith
Family
Freedom.

Family values, I guess.

Trebuchet · 11th January 2021, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by dejudge

The majority of people who voted for the incompetent one were not Evangelicals.

Maybe.
But I guarantee most evangelicals voted for Trump.

dejudge · 11th January 2021, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

Maybe.
But I guarantee most evangelicals voted for Trump.

I can guarantee that most white people voted for Trump.

RolandRat · 12th January 2021, 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

Off to Right Wing Watch now, will report back....

ETA1: Michele Bachmann.

ETA2, from the night before.

This stuff actually seems to be turning off some people on the right, especially the far right. Some comments I've seen are from people happy to own what happened on that day and they're disgusted at the Antifa rhetoric that's being pushed.

How widespread that opinion is /shrug but I find it interesting to see how the "event" is being used.

Crossbow · 12th January 2021, 01:53 PM

It sure is amazing just how incredibly stupid religious people can be.

After all, these idiots knew right from the start just Trump is just a worthless POS who is using them to get his own way, and yet these people supported that worthless POS Trump all the same.

And now that the Capitol building was attacked, a few people killed, hundreds have been hurt, and millions of dollars in damage incurred, now the religious types are re-evaluating their support of that POS Trump.

Butter! · 12th January 2021, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by dann

But what will the Evangelicals be doing politically now that Trump has lost all power? Will they stick to him after the riots? After he's out the White House?

This victory lap may be premature. He hasn't lost all power yet, and he and his deranged attack dogs can still do a great deal of damage. I half-believe we're going to be living in the Handmaid's Tale come the 17th-20th.

That being said, assuming you're correct that it's over (really hope you are!), I imagine the evangelicals will go back to the same para-political bull **** they always do. Harassing young girls outside abortion clinics, for example.

Honestly, we've basically got a theocratic majority on the Supreme Court at this point, though, so I'm pretty worried.

Skeptical Greg · 12th January 2021, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by Resume

There is a photo of a person standing on the gallows platform erected at the Capitol Sunday wearing a sweatshirt that read:

Faith
Family
Freedom.

Family values, I guess.

Christian values.

Since when have evangelicals had a problem with murder when it suited them?

Trebuchet · 12th January 2021, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg

Christian values.

Since when have evangelicals had a problem with murder when it suited them?

Not for about 2000 years.

arthwollipot · 12th January 2021, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

Not for about 2000 years.

Evangelicals - as a movement - did not exist until around the 1730s. Prior to that but still a lot less than 2000 years ago there were inquisitions and crusades, which had zero qualms about murdering people whom they thought didn't fit with their ideology. But they were (mostly) Catholics, not evangelicals.

Sorry, minor nitpick. Carry on.

maximara · 14th January 2021, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by Butter!

This victory lap may be premature. He hasn't lost all power yet, and he and his deranged attack dogs can still do a great deal of damage. I half-believe we're going to be living in the Handmaid's Tale come the 17th-20th.

That being said, assuming you're correct that it's over (really hope you are!), I imagine the evangelicals will go back to the same para-political bull **** they always do. Harassing young girls outside abortion clinics, for example.

Honestly, we've basically got a theocratic majority on the Supreme Court at this point, though, so I'm pretty worried.

I don't know. The Supreme Court has surprised people in the past.

Also as one story points out liberal lawyers will try to bring only strong cases before the federal courts and the conservatives have so far gone with weak ones. Whole Woman’s Health v. Hellerstedt case in point. Also the conservative have been sloppy with their paperwork to the point the court had no choice but to throw the thing out (Department of Homeland Security v. Regents of the University of California,)

dudalb · 15th January 2021, 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by Resume

There is a photo of a person standing on the gallows platform erected at the Capitol Sunday wearing a sweatshirt that read:

Faith
Family
Freedom.

Family values, I guess.

Corleone and Soprano family values.

8th January 2021, 11:07 AM	#1
dann Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 13,246	Evangelicals and Trump - after the Washington riots Quote: With the White House in the background, Pastor Paula White leads a prayer Wednesday, Jan. 6, 2021, in Washington, at a rally in support of President Donald Trump called the "Save America Rally." (AP Photo/Jacquelyn Martin) AP Trump supporters clash with police near White House as they protest election results (MarketWatch, Jan. 6, 2021) I don't think Paula White is one of the White House staffers who have abandoned Trump after the attack on the Capitol Building, and she condemned the violence only after Trump had told people to go home (and that they were right about the election having been stolen): Paula White-Cain on Twitter But what will the Evangelicals be doing politically now that Trump has lost all power? Will they stick to him after the riots? After he's out the White House? An op-ed in WP hopes for this: Quote: The collapse of one disastrous form of Christian social engagement should be an opportunity for the emergence of a more faithful one. And here there are plenty of potent, hopeful Christian principles lying around unused by most evangelicals: A consistent and comprehensive concern for the weak and vulnerable in our society, including the poor, immigrants and refugees. A passion for racial reconciliation and criminal justice reform, rooted in the nonnegotiable demands of human dignity. A deep commitment to public and global health, reflecting the priorities of Christ’s healing ministry. An embrace of political civility as a civilizing norm. A commitment to the liberty of other people’s religions, not just our own. An insistence on public honesty and a belief in the transforming power of unarmed truth. Trump’s evangelicals were complicit in the desecration of our democracy (WP, Jan. 7, 2021) But that doesn't really seem to be of this world ...
	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx Last edited by dann; 8th January 2021 at 11:08 AM.

8th January 2021, 02:06 PM	#2
GDon Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 1,288	Originally Posted by dann But what will the Evangelicals be doing politically now that Trump has lost all power? Will they stick to him after the riots? After he's out the White House? Is there anything to stick to once Trump is out of the White House? They'll wait for the next person who promises them things to come along. If anything, it's shown that there is still such a thing as 'the Evangelical vote'. Trump was a popularist thug, but an incompetent one. Prepare for someone worse than Trump -- a popularist competent thug -- to exploit the Evangelical vote to come along.
GDon Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 1,288

8th January 2021, 03:13 PM	#3
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 85,702	One thing is for sure, expect rationalizations that this was God's plan, they just aren't clear yet what the goal is.
	__________________ Trump lost and he knows it.

8th January 2021, 05:48 PM	#4
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 30,582	Off to Right Wing Watch now, will report back.... ETA1: Michele Bachmann. ETA2, from the night before.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant. Last edited by Trebuchet; 8th January 2021 at 05:55 PM.

8th January 2021, 11:44 PM	#5
dejudge Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 5,823	Originally Posted by GDon Is there anything to stick to once Trump is out of the White House? They'll wait for the next person who promises them things to come along. If anything, it's shown that there is still such a thing as 'the Evangelical vote'. Trump was a popularist thug, but an incompetent one. Prepare for someone worse than Trump -- a popularist competent thug -- to exploit the Evangelical vote to come along. The majority of people who voted for the incompetent one were not Evangelicals.
dejudge Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 5,823

9th January 2021, 04:24 AM	#6
dann Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 13,246	Originally Posted by Trebuchet Off to Right Wing Watch now, will report back.... ETA1: Michele Bachmann. ETA2, from the night before. Most of those aren't Evangelicals, but ... Quote: California pastor Ché Ahn, a leader of the dominionist New Apostolic Reformation, called this week the most important in U.S. history. “I believe that this week we’re going to throw Jezebel out and Jehu’s gonna rise up, and we’re gonna rule and reign through President Trump and under the lordship of Jesus Christ.” (In the Bible, Jehu overthrew the wicked queen Jezebel and slaughtered her family; Pentecostal Christians often refer to the “Jezebel spirit” as a demonic influence in the world.) Ahn said the election was “stolen” from Trump in “the most egregious fraud” in U.S. history. He predicted that Trump would be president for four more years and the U.S. would become a “red” nation “in perpetuity.” However, the question is what they'll be doing after Trump. 1) What will they do merely for opportunistic reasons? 2) What will be the Biblical interpretation of what they do? Why didn't the Trump-as-a-modern-day-Cyrus interpretation work out the way it was supposed to?
	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

10th January 2021, 07:05 AM	#7
turingtest Mistral, mistral wind... Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Embedded, reporting from Mississippi Posts: 4,529	Originally Posted by Trebuchet Off to Right Wing Watch now, will report back.... ETA1: Michele Bachmann. ETA2, from the night before. I guess none of those folks got the "heal the divide" memo the GOP is so anxiously passing around as its face (ntm ass)-saving policy going forward. But of course, even if they knew of it, they wouldn't pay any attention, self-righteousness is too potent a high- remember what Barry Goldwater said? Quote: Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.
	__________________ I'm tired of the bombs, tired of the bullets, tired of the crazies on TV; I'm the aviator, a dream's a dream whatever it seems Deep Purple- "The Aviator" Life was a short shelf that came with bookends- Stephen King

11th January 2021, 08:10 PM	#8
Resume Troublesome Passenger Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 18,624	There is a photo of a person standing on the gallows platform erected at the Capitol Sunday wearing a sweatshirt that read: Faith Family Freedom. Family values, I guess.
	__________________ He must be removed. George Will on President Donald J. Trump. June 1, 2020 Last edited by Resume; 11th January 2021 at 08:11 PM.

11th January 2021, 08:32 PM	#9
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 30,582	Originally Posted by dejudge The majority of people who voted for the incompetent one were not Evangelicals. Maybe. But I guarantee most evangelicals voted for Trump.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

11th January 2021, 10:30 PM	#10
dejudge Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 5,823	Originally Posted by Trebuchet Maybe. But I guarantee most evangelicals voted for Trump. I can guarantee that most white people voted for Trump.
dejudge Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 5,823

12th January 2021, 12:00 AM	#11
RolandRat Muse Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 857	Originally Posted by Trebuchet Off to Right Wing Watch now, will report back.... ETA1: Michele Bachmann. ETA2, from the night before. This stuff actually seems to be turning off some people on the right, especially the far right. Some comments I've seen are from people happy to own what happened on that day and they're disgusted at the Antifa rhetoric that's being pushed. How widespread that opinion is /shrug but I find it interesting to see how the "event" is being used.
RolandRat Muse Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 857

12th January 2021, 01:53 PM	#12
Crossbow Seeking Honesty and Sanity Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Charleston, WV Posts: 13,231	It sure is amazing just how incredibly stupid religious people can be. After all, these idiots knew right from the start just Trump is just a worthless POS who is using them to get his own way, and yet these people supported that worthless POS Trump all the same. And now that the Capitol building was attacked, a few people killed, hundreds have been hurt, and millions of dollars in damage incurred, now the religious types are re-evaluating their support of that POS Trump.
	__________________ On 22 JUL 2016, Candidate Donald Trump in his acceptance speech: "There can be no prosperity without law and order." On 15 FEB 2019 'BobTheCoward' said: "I constantly assert I am a fool." A man's best friend is his dogma.

12th January 2021, 02:51 PM	#13
Butter! Rough Around the Edges Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Deep Storage Posts: 7,062	Originally Posted by dann But what will the Evangelicals be doing politically now that Trump has lost all power? Will they stick to him after the riots? After he's out the White House? This victory lap may be premature. He hasn't lost all power yet, and he and his deranged attack dogs can still do a great deal of damage. I half-believe we're going to be living in the Handmaid's Tale come the 17th-20th. That being said, assuming you're correct that it's over (really hope you are!), I imagine the evangelicals will go back to the same para-political bull **** they always do. Harassing young girls outside abortion clinics, for example. Honestly, we've basically got a theocratic majority on the Supreme Court at this point, though, so I'm pretty worried.
	__________________ Abhore that which is spelled wrong

12th January 2021, 05:40 PM	#14
Skeptical Greg Agave Wine Connoisseur Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Just past ' Resume Speed ' . Posts: 16,832	Originally Posted by Resume There is a photo of a person standing on the gallows platform erected at the Capitol Sunday wearing a sweatshirt that read: Faith Family Freedom. Family values, I guess. Christian values. Since when have evangelicals had a problem with murder when it suited them?
	__________________ " The main problem I have with the idea of heaven, is the thought of spending eternity with most of the people who claim to be going there. "

12th January 2021, 05:47 PM	#15
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 30,582	Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg Christian values. Since when have evangelicals had a problem with murder when it suited them? Not for about 2000 years.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

12th January 2021, 06:07 PM	#16
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 69,479	Originally Posted by Trebuchet Not for about 2000 years. Evangelicals - as a movement - did not exist until around the 1730s. Prior to that but still a lot less than 2000 years ago there were inquisitions and crusades, which had zero qualms about murdering people whom they thought didn't fit with their ideology. But they were (mostly) Catholics, not evangelicals. Sorry, minor nitpick. Carry on.
	__________________ Please scream inside your heart.

14th January 2021, 11:21 PM	#17
maximara Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,434	Originally Posted by Butter! This victory lap may be premature. He hasn't lost all power yet, and he and his deranged attack dogs can still do a great deal of damage. I half-believe we're going to be living in the Handmaid's Tale come the 17th-20th. That being said, assuming you're correct that it's over (really hope you are!), I imagine the evangelicals will go back to the same para-political bull **** they always do. Harassing young girls outside abortion clinics, for example. Honestly, we've basically got a theocratic majority on the Supreme Court at this point, though, so I'm pretty worried. I don't know. The Supreme Court has surprised people in the past. Also as one story points out liberal lawyers will try to bring only strong cases before the federal courts and the conservatives have so far gone with weak ones. Whole Woman’s Health v. Hellerstedt case in point. Also the conservative have been sloppy with their paperwork to the point the court had no choice but to throw the thing out (Department of Homeland Security v. Regents of the University of California,)
maximara Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,434

15th January 2021, 12:51 AM	#18
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 49,869	Originally Posted by Resume There is a photo of a person standing on the gallows platform erected at the Capitol Sunday wearing a sweatshirt that read: Faith Family Freedom. Family values, I guess. Corleone and Soprano family values.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.