Should illegals get a pass on vax requirements?

Iamafalser · 18th June 2022, 10:29 PM

Current US policy is that in order to enter the country legally you need to provide proof of COVID vaccination in order to get a visa.

However, if you enter the country illegally then you are not required to be vaccinated.

Please explain how this policy makes any sense.

Skeptic Ginger · 18th June 2022, 10:46 PM

This might be a bigger deal if all the alt-right idiots in the country weren't refusing to get vaccinated.

How does that make sense?

The Great Zaganza · 18th June 2022, 11:11 PM

You really want to use undocumented migrants to spread the Vaccine Virus? You want to give Bill Gates full control over them via 5G?
If you force them to stay unvaccinated, you could increase the heathy, natural herd immunity of all people in the United States.

MRC_Hans · 18th June 2022, 11:25 PM

Uhh, they are illegal. They do not get a pass. They simply don't follow the rules.

Hans

Mojo · 19th June 2022, 12:23 AM

Originally Posted by Iamafalser

Current US policy is that in order to enter the country legally you need to provide proof of COVID vaccination in order to get a visa.

However, if you enter the country illegally then you are not required to be vaccinated.

Please explain how this policy makes any sense.

Please explain how that post makes any sense.

Mojo · 19th June 2022, 12:23 AM

We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!

Mr Fied · 19th June 2022, 01:52 AM

Originally Posted by Iamafalser

Current US policy is that in order to enter the country legally you need to provide proof of COVID vaccination in order to get a visa.

However, if you enter the country illegally then you are not required to be vaccinated.

Please explain how this policy makes any sense.

If you need this explained, illegal immigrants are the least of your worries.

Norman Alexander · 19th June 2022, 02:32 AM

Define "entering the country illegally" in your own terms.

Mojo · 19th June 2022, 02:35 AM

Originally Posted by Mr Fied

If you need this explained, illegal immigrants are the least of your worries.

Wait until he finds out that murderers don’t have to carry out risk assessments for their victims.

Random · 19th June 2022, 03:27 AM

They don't get a pass on vaccine requirements. If a facility of business says they need to present proof of vaccination, they need to present proof of vaccination.

arayder · 19th June 2022, 05:14 AM

Originally Posted by Mojo

Wait until he finds out that murderers don’t have to carry out risk assessments for their victims.

. . .And armed convenience store robbers in California often don't follow the state's laws regarding magazine capacity.

-------------
Dope Clock II: It's been 370 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth

sir drinks-a-lot · 19th June 2022, 05:56 AM

Originally Posted by MRC_Hans

Uhh, they are illegal.

Uh, no human is illegal, bro.

Delphic Oracle · 19th June 2022, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot

Uh, no human is illegal, bro.

This.

angrysoba · 19th June 2022, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by Iamafalser

Current US policy is that in order to enter the country legally you need to provide proof of COVID vaccination in order to get a visa.

However, if you enter the country illegally then you are not required to be vaccinated.

Please explain how this policy makes any sense.

Huh?

Darat · 19th June 2022, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot

Uh, no human is illegal, bro.

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle

This.

The phrase was referring to their immigration status.

MRC_Hans · 19th June 2022, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot

Uh, no human is illegal, bro.

However, quite a few do illegal things.

Hans

TragicMonkey · 19th June 2022, 09:12 AM

If you're genuinely concerned about containing the spread of a disease the answer is to provide vaccinations for everybody, regardless of all other circumstances.

Delphic Oracle · 19th June 2022, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

The phrase was referring to their immigration status.

Then learn proper grammar?

The phrasing, as presented, declares the person themselves as illegal.

Our Constitution forbids bills of attainder for this exact reason.

"A person who entered the country unlawfully" is the phrase you're looking for (because even using "illegal" in that sense is incorrect).

I've never in my life heard even raping, murdering cannibals referred to as "an illegal" so I suspect this is exactly what it appears to be: a vicious pejorative applied for reasons other than their behavior.

MRC_Hans · 19th June 2022, 09:28 AM

Certainly, the OP referred to people who "entered illegally". So with that stated, I find it OK to, for short, to refer to them as illegals. Just as we may refer to people who committed a crime as 'criminals'.

Anyway, I suspect the opening poster might be referred to as a 'drive-by' troll, especially if you try to actually pronounce their user handle.

Hans

Darat · 19th June 2022, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle

Then learn proper grammar?

The phrasing, as presented, declares the person themselves as illegal.

...snip...

Or perhaps read with slightly more attention?

Delphic Oracle · 19th June 2022, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by MRC_Hans

Certainly, the OP referred to people who "entered illegally". So with that stated, I find it OK to, for short, to refer to them as illegals. Just as we may refer to people who committed a crime as 'criminals'.

Anyway, I suspect the opening poster might be referred to as a 'drive-by' troll, especially if you try to actually pronounce their user handle.

Hans

This is what drew objection:

Originally Posted by MRC_Hans

Uhh, they are illegal. They do not get a pass. They simply don't follow the rules.

Hans

Hilite mine, emphasis in original.

Delphic Oracle · 19th June 2022, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Or perhaps read with slightly more attention?

Or perhaps stop defending bigots with feigned ignorance and pearl clutching concerns about "civility?"

Stacyhs · 19th June 2022, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Mr Fied

If you need this explained, illegal immigrants are the least of your worries.

This.

Originally Posted by MRC_Hans

Uhh, they are illegal. They do not get a pass. They simply don't follow the rules.

Hans

I see nothing wrong with your post. It's understood you are referring to their legal status, not them as a person. The criticism smacks of simple virtue signaling.

bruto · 19th June 2022, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

This.

I see nothing wrong with your post. It's understood you are referring to their legal status, not them as a person. The criticism smacks of simple virtue signaling.

Right. I suppose if one were writing an essay or a magazine article it would be appropriate to point out that the expression is not optimal, but in the context of a forum thread, especially in the context of pointing out the utter absurdity of the initial post, it's picking the wrong nit.

Darat · 19th June 2022, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle

Or perhaps stop defending bigots with feigned ignorance and pearl clutching concerns about "civility?"

Like I said you should try to read for understanding.

Stacyhs · 19th June 2022, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by bruto

Right. I suppose if one were writing an essay or a magazine article it would be appropriate to point out that the expression is not optimal, but in the context of a forum thread, especially in the context of pointing out the utter absurdity of the initial post, it's picking the wrong nit.

It can also be used as a noun referring to an illegal immigrant according to Merriam Webster, MacMillan, Oxford Learner's, Cambridge et al dictionaries.

sackett · 19th June 2022, 11:44 AM

At the border:

Agent: Next! Okay, are you legal or illegal?
Immigrant: Illegal.
Agent (checking off box): And what's your vaccine status?
Immigrant: I don't need no steenking vaccine.
Agent (triumphantly): Oh yes you do! Getcher ass over to that table 'n put out a vein!
Immigrant: Hey, I got rights!
Agent (grudgingly): Well, muh, yeah, 's true, ya got me there. But! (shouting at the departing immigrant's wet back) After the midterms, you better watch out!

theprestige · 19th June 2022, 11:48 AM

Another way to approach the same question: Should people who enter the country illegally be summarily deported if they cannot show proof of vaccination?

Or, even more simply, should people who enter the country illegally be summarily deported?

Delphic Oracle · 19th June 2022, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Like I said you should try to read for understanding.

I'll maintain I understood the intent just fine.

theprestige · 19th June 2022, 12:35 PM

Yet another way to approach the question: If proof of of vaccination isn't a hard stop for illegal immigration, why should it be a hard stop for legal immigration?

Or, even more simply, if illegal immigration isn't a hard stop, why are any legal immigration applicants languishing at the border at all?

Skeptic Ginger · 19th June 2022, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

... I see nothing wrong with your post. It's understood you are referring to their legal status, not them as a person. The criticism smacks of simple virtue signaling.

And for a third POV: Virtue signaling goes both ways when referring to people being illegals and sometimes when objecting to it. The OP was virtue signaling.

Twelve Examples of Virtue Signaling See the examples: Slacktivism, Self-Righteousness and Political Correctness.

Which is a dilemma for some of us because when we ignore framing it allows the message to filter through loud and clear. I suppose the compromise is to not point out the error but rather just use proper framing ourselves: they are not illegal people, they crossed the border or overstayed their visa illegally.

Stacyhs · 19th June 2022, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

Another way to approach the same question: Should people who enter the country illegally be summarily deported if they cannot show proof of vaccination?

Or, even more simply, should people who enter the country illegally be summarily deported?

Depends on the situation. I don't believe "Dreamers" should be summarily deported at all unless they are proved to have committed a serious crime. Not getting vaxxed isn't a crime.

Norman Alexander · 19th June 2022, 06:00 PM

Why not just vaccinate EVERY immigrant, regardless of how they entered. Don't even check their previous status, make it mandatory on arrival and note this on their record. Then you know for sure that they ARE vaccinated.

MRC_Hans · 20th June 2022, 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle

This is what drew objection:

Hilite mine, emphasis in original.

Yes, and I addrssed that.

Hans

MRC_Hans · 20th June 2022, 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Why not just vaccinate EVERY immigrant, regardless of how they entered. Don't even check their previous status, make it mandatory on arrival and note this on their record. Then you know for sure that they ARE vaccinated.

Well, perhaps you are joking, but it vould seem that illegal immigrants are unlikely to show up anyplace where you can demand they get vaccinated. They either cross the border secretly, or enter with tourist visas and fail to leave.

The problem would seem to be rhat authrities simply cant just contact them.

All that said, isn't this a rater minor problem? If there are so many illigal immigrants in a country that their vaccination status is a general heath issue, I think there will be worse problems.

Hans

Stacyhs · 20th June 2022, 12:48 AM

Originally Posted by MRC_Hans

Well, perhaps you are joking, but it vould seem that illegal immigrants are unlikely to show up anyplace where you can demand they get vaccinated. They either cross the border secretly, or enter with tourist visas and fail to leave.

The problem would seem to be rhat authrities simply cant just contact them.

All that said, isn't this a rater minor problem? If there are so many illigal immigrants in a country that their vaccination status is a general heath issue, I think there will be worse problems.

Hans

There are far more unvaccinated conservatives in this country than unvaccinated illegal immigrants because of "mah freedoms" and "secret plots" against red blooded Americans.

arayder · 20th June 2022, 06:02 AM

Sometimes the phony victimhood drips off what people say. . .

"How come the blacks get a history month and the rest of us don't?"

"The girls get Title IX, but we don't get squat."

"My mamma packed my baloney sandwich every day when I was a kid! What's all this free lunch stuff?"

So now, having found the last bitch and moan slip in the "It ain't fair jar" the OP is makes a sad whine about illegal aliens not being required to be vaccinated before they sneak across the boarder.

-------------
Dope Clock II: It's been 371 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth.

plague311 · 20th June 2022, 06:20 AM

Originally Posted by MRC_Hans

All that said, isn't this a rater minor problem? If there are so many illigal immigrants in a country that their vaccination status is a general heath issue, I think there will be worse problems.

I'm interested in these "worse problems" you're referring to, and would like to see an example.

Upchurch · 20th June 2022, 06:55 AM

Originally Posted by Iamafalser

Current US policy is that in order to enter the country legally you need to provide proof of COVID vaccination in order to get a visa.

However, if you enter the country illegally then you are not required to be vaccinated.

Please explain how this policy makes any sense.

I've started a response to this post several times, but I keep getting tripped up on the idea that there is a set of screening rules for legal entry and a separate set of screening rules for illegal entry, as if people sneaking into the country went through designated checkpoints for health screenings before sneaking in.

arayder · 20th June 2022, 07:33 AM

During the potato famine many Irish who emigrated to the U.S. showed up at our shores disease ridden, often a result of years of malnourishment. The circumstances encouraged, among the bigoted, a prejudicial view of the Irish as a race of disease carrying sub-humans.

I like to think that if I was around in 1840 or so I'd be helping, if even in a small way, to feed and heal the Irish who came here.

Legalities aside, I don't see how this situation is that much different.

Consider that the answer comes through vaccines, food, water, medicine and a caring attitude.

-------------
Dope Clock II: It's been 371 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth.

18th June 2022, 10:29 PM	#1
Iamafalser Thinker Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 140	Should illegals get a pass on vax requirements? Current US policy is that in order to enter the country legally you need to provide proof of COVID vaccination in order to get a visa. However, if you enter the country illegally then you are not required to be vaccinated. Please explain how this policy makes any sense.
Iamafalser Thinker Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 140	Last edited by Iamafalser; 18th June 2022 at 10:31 PM.

18th June 2022, 11:11 PM	#3
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 18,288	You really want to use undocumented migrants to spread the Vaccine Virus? You want to give Bill Gates full control over them via 5G? If you force them to stay unvaccinated, you could increase the heathy, natural herd immunity of all people in the United States.
	__________________ "When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me." - Emo Philips

18th June 2022, 11:25 PM	#4
MRC_Hans Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 24,117	Uhh, they are illegal. They do not get a pass. They simply don't follow the rules. Hans
	__________________ Experience is an excellent teacher, but she sends large bills.

19th June 2022, 12:23 AM	#5
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 36,166	Originally Posted by Iamafalser Current US policy is that in order to enter the country legally you need to provide proof of COVID vaccination in order to get a visa. However, if you enter the country illegally then you are not required to be vaccinated. Please explain how this policy makes any sense. Please explain how that post makes any sense.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

19th June 2022, 12:23 AM	#6
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 36,166	We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

18th June 2022, 10:46 PM	#2
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 92,445	This might be a bigger deal if all the alt-right idiots in the country weren't refusing to get vaccinated. How does that make sense?

19th June 2022, 01:52 AM	#7
Mr Fied Muse Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 645	Originally Posted by Iamafalser Current US policy is that in order to enter the country legally you need to provide proof of COVID vaccination in order to get a visa. However, if you enter the country illegally then you are not required to be vaccinated. Please explain how this policy makes any sense. If you need this explained, illegal immigrants are the least of your worries.
Mr Fied Muse Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 645

19th June 2022, 02:32 AM	#8
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 11,937	Define "entering the country illegally" in your own terms.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

19th June 2022, 02:35 AM	#9
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 36,166	Originally Posted by Mr Fied If you need this explained, illegal immigrants are the least of your worries. Wait until he finds out that murderers don’t have to carry out risk assessments for their victims.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

19th June 2022, 03:27 AM	#10
Random Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 3,410	They don't get a pass on vaccine requirements. If a facility of business says they need to present proof of vaccination, they need to present proof of vaccination.
Random Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 3,410	__________________ The road to Fascism is paved with people saying, "You're overreacting!".

19th June 2022, 05:14 AM	#11
arayder Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,467	Originally Posted by Mojo Wait until he finds out that murderers don’t have to carry out risk assessments for their victims. . . .And armed convenience store robbers in California often don't follow the state's laws regarding magazine capacity. ------------- Dope Clock II: It's been 370 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth
arayder Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,467

19th June 2022, 05:56 AM	#12
sir drinks-a-lot Philosopher Join Date: May 2004 Location: Cole Valley, CA Posts: 5,153	Originally Posted by MRC_Hans Uhh, they are illegal. Uh, no human is illegal, bro.
	__________________ I don't like that man. I must get to know him better. --Abraham Lincoln

19th June 2022, 07:35 AM	#13
Delphic Oracle Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 6,274	Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot Uh, no human is illegal, bro. This.

19th June 2022, 08:07 AM	#14
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 33,036	Originally Posted by Iamafalser Current US policy is that in order to enter the country legally you need to provide proof of COVID vaccination in order to get a visa. However, if you enter the country illegally then you are not required to be vaccinated. Please explain how this policy makes any sense. Huh?
	__________________ Слава Україні! **** Putin!

19th June 2022, 08:13 AM	#15
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 103,097	Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot Uh, no human is illegal, bro. Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle This. The phrase was referring to their immigration status.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

19th June 2022, 08:37 AM	#16
MRC_Hans Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 24,117	Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot Uh, no human is illegal, bro. However, quite a few do illegal things. Hans
	__________________ Experience is an excellent teacher, but she sends large bills.

19th June 2022, 09:12 AM	#17
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 63,459	If you're genuinely concerned about containing the spread of a disease the answer is to provide vaccinations for everybody, regardless of all other circumstances.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

19th June 2022, 09:19 AM	#18
Delphic Oracle Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 6,274	Originally Posted by Darat The phrase was referring to their immigration status. Then learn proper grammar? The phrasing, as presented, declares the person themselves as illegal. Our Constitution forbids bills of attainder for this exact reason. "A person who entered the country unlawfully" is the phrase you're looking for (because even using "illegal" in that sense is incorrect). I've never in my life heard even raping, murdering cannibals referred to as "an illegal" so I suspect this is exactly what it appears to be: a vicious pejorative applied for reasons other than their behavior.
	Last edited by Delphic Oracle; 19th June 2022 at 09:21 AM.

19th June 2022, 09:28 AM	#19
MRC_Hans Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 24,117	Certainly, the OP referred to people who "entered illegally". So with that stated, I find it OK to, for short, to refer to them as illegals. Just as we may refer to people who committed a crime as 'criminals'. Anyway, I suspect the opening poster might be referred to as a 'drive-by' troll, especially if you try to actually pronounce their user handle. Hans
	__________________ Experience is an excellent teacher, but she sends large bills.

19th June 2022, 09:37 AM	#20
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 103,097	Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle Then learn proper grammar? The phrasing, as presented, declares the person themselves as illegal. ...snip... Or perhaps read with slightly more attention?
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

19th June 2022, 10:32 AM	#21
Delphic Oracle Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 6,274	Originally Posted by MRC_Hans Certainly, the OP referred to people who "entered illegally". So with that stated, I find it OK to, for short, to refer to them as illegals. Just as we may refer to people who committed a crime as 'criminals'. Anyway, I suspect the opening poster might be referred to as a 'drive-by' troll, especially if you try to actually pronounce their user handle. Hans This is what drew objection: Originally Posted by MRC_Hans Uhh, they are illegal. They do not get a pass. They simply don't follow the rules. Hans Hilite mine, emphasis in original.

19th June 2022, 10:33 AM	#22
Delphic Oracle Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 6,274	Originally Posted by Darat Or perhaps read with slightly more attention? Or perhaps stop defending bigots with feigned ignorance and pearl clutching concerns about "civility?"
	Last edited by Delphic Oracle; 19th June 2022 at 10:35 AM.

19th June 2022, 10:53 AM	#23
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 25,888	Originally Posted by Mr Fied If you need this explained, illegal immigrants are the least of your worries. This. Originally Posted by MRC_Hans Uhh, they are illegal. They do not get a pass. They simply don't follow the rules. Hans I see nothing wrong with your post. It's understood you are referring to their legal status, not them as a person. The criticism smacks of simple virtue signaling.

19th June 2022, 11:01 AM	#24
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 32,748	Originally Posted by Stacyhs This. I see nothing wrong with your post. It's understood you are referring to their legal status, not them as a person. The criticism smacks of simple virtue signaling. Right. I suppose if one were writing an essay or a magazine article it would be appropriate to point out that the expression is not optimal, but in the context of a forum thread, especially in the context of pointing out the utter absurdity of the initial post, it's picking the wrong nit.
	__________________ I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver) "There is another world, but it's in this one." (Paul Eluard)

19th June 2022, 11:13 AM	#25
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 103,097	Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle Or perhaps stop defending bigots with feigned ignorance and pearl clutching concerns about "civility?" Like I said you should try to read for understanding.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

19th June 2022, 11:24 AM	#26
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 25,888	Originally Posted by bruto Right. I suppose if one were writing an essay or a magazine article it would be appropriate to point out that the expression is not optimal, but in the context of a forum thread, especially in the context of pointing out the utter absurdity of the initial post, it's picking the wrong nit. It can also be used as a noun referring to an illegal immigrant according to Merriam Webster, MacMillan, Oxford Learner's, Cambridge et al dictionaries.

19th June 2022, 11:44 AM	#27
sackett Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 7,610	At the border: Agent: Next! Okay, are you legal or illegal? Immigrant: Illegal. Agent (checking off box): And what's your vaccine status? Immigrant: I don't need no steenking vaccine. Agent (triumphantly): Oh yes you do! Getcher ass over to that table 'n put out a vein! Immigrant: Hey, I got rights! Agent (grudgingly): Well, muh, yeah, 's true, ya got me there. But! (shouting at the departing immigrant's wet back) After the midterms, you better watch out!
	__________________ If you would learn a man's character, give him authority. If you would ruin a man's character, let him seize power. Last edited by sackett; 19th June 2022 at 11:45 AM.

19th June 2022, 11:48 AM	#28
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Antimemetics Division Posts: 60,141	Another way to approach the same question: Should people who enter the country illegally be summarily deported if they cannot show proof of vaccination? Or, even more simply, should people who enter the country illegally be summarily deported?
	__________________ There is no Antimemetics Division.

19th June 2022, 11:49 AM	#29
Delphic Oracle Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 6,274	Originally Posted by Darat Like I said you should try to read for understanding. I'll maintain I understood the intent just fine.

19th June 2022, 12:35 PM	#30
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Antimemetics Division Posts: 60,141	Yet another way to approach the question: If proof of of vaccination isn't a hard stop for illegal immigration, why should it be a hard stop for legal immigration? Or, even more simply, if illegal immigration isn't a hard stop, why are any legal immigration applicants languishing at the border at all?
	__________________ There is no Antimemetics Division.

19th June 2022, 01:43 PM	#31
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 92,445	Originally Posted by Stacyhs ... I see nothing wrong with your post. It's understood you are referring to their legal status, not them as a person. The criticism smacks of simple virtue signaling. And for a third POV: Virtue signaling goes both ways when referring to people being illegals and sometimes when objecting to it. The OP was virtue signaling. Twelve Examples of Virtue Signaling See the examples: Slacktivism, Self-Righteousness and Political Correctness. Which is a dilemma for some of us because when we ignore framing it allows the message to filter through loud and clear. I suppose the compromise is to not point out the error but rather just use proper framing ourselves: they are not illegal people, they crossed the border or overstayed their visa illegally.

19th June 2022, 02:49 PM	#32
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 25,888	Originally Posted by theprestige Another way to approach the same question: Should people who enter the country illegally be summarily deported if they cannot show proof of vaccination? Or, even more simply, should people who enter the country illegally be summarily deported? Depends on the situation. I don't believe "Dreamers" should be summarily deported at all unless they are proved to have committed a serious crime. Not getting vaxxed isn't a crime.

19th June 2022, 06:00 PM	#33
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 11,937	Why not just vaccinate EVERY immigrant, regardless of how they entered. Don't even check their previous status, make it mandatory on arrival and note this on their record. Then you know for sure that they ARE vaccinated.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

20th June 2022, 12:22 AM	#34
MRC_Hans Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 24,117	Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle This is what drew objection: Hilite mine, emphasis in original. Yes, and I addrssed that. Hans
	__________________ Experience is an excellent teacher, but she sends large bills.

20th June 2022, 12:38 AM	#35
MRC_Hans Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 24,117	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander Why not just vaccinate EVERY immigrant, regardless of how they entered. Don't even check their previous status, make it mandatory on arrival and note this on their record. Then you know for sure that they ARE vaccinated. Well, perhaps you are joking, but it vould seem that illegal immigrants are unlikely to show up anyplace where you can demand they get vaccinated. They either cross the border secretly, or enter with tourist visas and fail to leave. The problem would seem to be rhat authrities simply cant just contact them. All that said, isn't this a rater minor problem? If there are so many illigal immigrants in a country that their vaccination status is a general heath issue, I think there will be worse problems. Hans
	__________________ Experience is an excellent teacher, but she sends large bills. Last edited by MRC_Hans; 20th June 2022 at 12:39 AM.