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Old 18th June 2022, 10:29 PM   #1
Iamafalser
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Should illegals get a pass on vax requirements?

Current US policy is that in order to enter the country legally you need to provide proof of COVID vaccination in order to get a visa.

However, if you enter the country illegally then you are not required to be vaccinated.

Please explain how this policy makes any sense.

Last edited by Iamafalser; 18th June 2022 at 10:31 PM.
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Old 18th June 2022, 10:46 PM   #2
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This might be a bigger deal if all the alt-right idiots in the country weren't refusing to get vaccinated.

How does that make sense?
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Old 18th June 2022, 11:11 PM   #3
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You really want to use undocumented migrants to spread the Vaccine Virus? You want to give Bill Gates full control over them via 5G?
If you force them to stay unvaccinated, you could increase the heathy, natural herd immunity of all people in the United States.
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Old 18th June 2022, 11:25 PM   #4
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Uhh, they are illegal. They do not get a pass. They simply don't follow the rules.

Hans
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Old 19th June 2022, 12:23 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Iamafalser View Post
Current US policy is that in order to enter the country legally you need to provide proof of COVID vaccination in order to get a visa.

However, if you enter the country illegally then you are not required to be vaccinated.

Please explain how this policy makes any sense.

Please explain how that post makes any sense.
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Old 19th June 2022, 12:23 AM   #6
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We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!
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Old 19th June 2022, 01:52 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Iamafalser View Post
Current US policy is that in order to enter the country legally you need to provide proof of COVID vaccination in order to get a visa.

However, if you enter the country illegally then you are not required to be vaccinated.

Please explain how this policy makes any sense.
If you need this explained, illegal immigrants are the least of your worries.
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Old 19th June 2022, 02:32 AM   #8
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Define "entering the country illegally" in your own terms.
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Old 19th June 2022, 02:35 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Mr Fied View Post
If you need this explained, illegal immigrants are the least of your worries.

Wait until he finds out that murderers don’t have to carry out risk assessments for their victims.
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Old 19th June 2022, 03:27 AM   #10
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They don't get a pass on vaccine requirements. If a facility of business says they need to present proof of vaccination, they need to present proof of vaccination.
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Old 19th June 2022, 05:14 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Wait until he finds out that murderers don’t have to carry out risk assessments for their victims.
. . .And armed convenience store robbers in California often don't follow the state's laws regarding magazine capacity.

-------------
Dope Clock II: It's been 370 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth
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Old 19th June 2022, 05:56 AM   #12
sir drinks-a-lot
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Uhh, they are illegal.
Uh, no human is illegal, bro.
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Old 19th June 2022, 07:35 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Uh, no human is illegal, bro.
This.
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Old 19th June 2022, 08:07 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Iamafalser View Post
Current US policy is that in order to enter the country legally you need to provide proof of COVID vaccination in order to get a visa.

However, if you enter the country illegally then you are not required to be vaccinated.

Please explain how this policy makes any sense.
Huh?
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Old 19th June 2022, 08:13 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Uh, no human is illegal, bro.
Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
This.
The phrase was referring to their immigration status.
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Old 19th June 2022, 08:37 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Uh, no human is illegal, bro.
However, quite a few do illegal things.

Hans
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Old 19th June 2022, 09:12 AM   #17
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If you're genuinely concerned about containing the spread of a disease the answer is to provide vaccinations for everybody, regardless of all other circumstances.
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Old 19th June 2022, 09:19 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
The phrase was referring to their immigration status.
Then learn proper grammar?

The phrasing, as presented, declares the person themselves as illegal.

Our Constitution forbids bills of attainder for this exact reason.

"A person who entered the country unlawfully" is the phrase you're looking for (because even using "illegal" in that sense is incorrect).

I've never in my life heard even raping, murdering cannibals referred to as "an illegal" so I suspect this is exactly what it appears to be: a vicious pejorative applied for reasons other than their behavior.

Last edited by Delphic Oracle; 19th June 2022 at 09:21 AM.
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Old 19th June 2022, 09:28 AM   #19
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Certainly, the OP referred to people who "entered illegally". So with that stated, I find it OK to, for short, to refer to them as illegals. Just as we may refer to people who committed a crime as 'criminals'.

Anyway, I suspect the opening poster might be referred to as a 'drive-by' troll, especially if you try to actually pronounce their user handle.

Hans
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Old 19th June 2022, 09:37 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Then learn proper grammar?

The phrasing, as presented, declares the person themselves as illegal.

...snip...
Or perhaps read with slightly more attention?
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Old 19th June 2022, 10:32 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Certainly, the OP referred to people who "entered illegally". So with that stated, I find it OK to, for short, to refer to them as illegals. Just as we may refer to people who committed a crime as 'criminals'.

Anyway, I suspect the opening poster might be referred to as a 'drive-by' troll, especially if you try to actually pronounce their user handle.

Hans
This is what drew objection:
Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Uhh, they are illegal. They do not get a pass. They simply don't follow the rules.

Hans
Hilite mine, emphasis in original.
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Old 19th June 2022, 10:33 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Or perhaps read with slightly more attention?
Or perhaps stop defending bigots with feigned ignorance and pearl clutching concerns about "civility?"

Last edited by Delphic Oracle; 19th June 2022 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 19th June 2022, 10:53 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Mr Fied View Post
If you need this explained, illegal immigrants are the least of your worries.
This.


Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Uhh, they are illegal. They do not get a pass. They simply don't follow the rules.

Hans
I see nothing wrong with your post. It's understood you are referring to their legal status, not them as a person. The criticism smacks of simple virtue signaling.
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Old 19th June 2022, 11:01 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
This.




I see nothing wrong with your post. It's understood you are referring to their legal status, not them as a person. The criticism smacks of simple virtue signaling.
Right. I suppose if one were writing an essay or a magazine article it would be appropriate to point out that the expression is not optimal, but in the context of a forum thread, especially in the context of pointing out the utter absurdity of the initial post, it's picking the wrong nit.
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Old 19th June 2022, 11:13 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Or perhaps stop defending bigots with feigned ignorance and pearl clutching concerns about "civility?"
Like I said you should try to read for understanding.
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Old 19th June 2022, 11:24 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Right. I suppose if one were writing an essay or a magazine article it would be appropriate to point out that the expression is not optimal, but in the context of a forum thread, especially in the context of pointing out the utter absurdity of the initial post, it's picking the wrong nit.
It can also be used as a noun referring to an illegal immigrant according to Merriam Webster, MacMillan, Oxford Learner's, Cambridge et al dictionaries.
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Old 19th June 2022, 11:44 AM   #27
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At the border:

Agent: Next! Okay, are you legal or illegal?
Immigrant: Illegal.
Agent (checking off box): And what's your vaccine status?
Immigrant: I don't need no steenking vaccine.
Agent (triumphantly): Oh yes you do! Getcher ass over to that table 'n put out a vein!
Immigrant: Hey, I got rights!
Agent (grudgingly): Well, muh, yeah, 's true, ya got me there. But! (shouting at the departing immigrant's wet back) After the midterms, you better watch out!
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Old 19th June 2022, 11:48 AM   #28
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Another way to approach the same question: Should people who enter the country illegally be summarily deported if they cannot show proof of vaccination?

Or, even more simply, should people who enter the country illegally be summarily deported?
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Old 19th June 2022, 11:49 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Like I said you should try to read for understanding.
I'll maintain I understood the intent just fine.
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Old 19th June 2022, 12:35 PM   #30
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Yet another way to approach the question: If proof of of vaccination isn't a hard stop for illegal immigration, why should it be a hard stop for legal immigration?

Or, even more simply, if illegal immigration isn't a hard stop, why are any legal immigration applicants languishing at the border at all?
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Old 19th June 2022, 01:43 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
... I see nothing wrong with your post. It's understood you are referring to their legal status, not them as a person. The criticism smacks of simple virtue signaling.
And for a third POV: Virtue signaling goes both ways when referring to people being illegals and sometimes when objecting to it. The OP was virtue signaling.

Twelve Examples of Virtue Signaling See the examples: Slacktivism, Self-Righteousness and Political Correctness.

Which is a dilemma for some of us because when we ignore framing it allows the message to filter through loud and clear. I suppose the compromise is to not point out the error but rather just use proper framing ourselves: they are not illegal people, they crossed the border or overstayed their visa illegally.

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Old 19th June 2022, 02:49 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Another way to approach the same question: Should people who enter the country illegally be summarily deported if they cannot show proof of vaccination?

Or, even more simply, should people who enter the country illegally be summarily deported?
Depends on the situation. I don't believe "Dreamers" should be summarily deported at all unless they are proved to have committed a serious crime. Not getting vaxxed isn't a crime.
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Old 19th June 2022, 06:00 PM   #33
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Why not just vaccinate EVERY immigrant, regardless of how they entered. Don't even check their previous status, make it mandatory on arrival and note this on their record. Then you know for sure that they ARE vaccinated.
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Old 20th June 2022, 12:22 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
This is what drew objection:


Hilite mine, emphasis in original.
Yes, and I addrssed that.

Hans
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Old 20th June 2022, 12:38 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Why not just vaccinate EVERY immigrant, regardless of how they entered. Don't even check their previous status, make it mandatory on arrival and note this on their record. Then you know for sure that they ARE vaccinated.
Well, perhaps you are joking, but it vould seem that illegal immigrants are unlikely to show up anyplace where you can demand they get vaccinated. They either cross the border secretly, or enter with tourist visas and fail to leave.

The problem would seem to be rhat authrities simply cant just contact them.

All that said, isn't this a rater minor problem? If there are so many illigal immigrants in a country that their vaccination status is a general heath issue, I think there will be worse problems.

Hans
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Old 20th June 2022, 12:48 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Well, perhaps you are joking, but it vould seem that illegal immigrants are unlikely to show up anyplace where you can demand they get vaccinated. They either cross the border secretly, or enter with tourist visas and fail to leave.

The problem would seem to be rhat authrities simply cant just contact them.

All that said, isn't this a rater minor problem? If there are so many illigal immigrants in a country that their vaccination status is a general heath issue, I think there will be worse problems.

Hans
There are far more unvaccinated conservatives in this country than unvaccinated illegal immigrants because of "mah freedoms" and "secret plots" against red blooded Americans.
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Old 20th June 2022, 06:02 AM   #37
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Sometimes the phony victimhood drips off what people say. . .

"How come the blacks get a history month and the rest of us don't?"

"The girls get Title IX, but we don't get squat."

"My mamma packed my baloney sandwich every day when I was a kid! What's all this free lunch stuff?"

So now, having found the last bitch and moan slip in the "It ain't fair jar" the OP is makes a sad whine about illegal aliens not being required to be vaccinated before they sneak across the boarder.

-------------
Dope Clock II: It's been 371 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth.

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Old 20th June 2022, 06:20 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
All that said, isn't this a rater minor problem? If there are so many illigal immigrants in a country that their vaccination status is a general heath issue, I think there will be worse problems.
I'm interested in these "worse problems" you're referring to, and would like to see an example.
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Old 20th June 2022, 06:55 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Iamafalser View Post
Current US policy is that in order to enter the country legally you need to provide proof of COVID vaccination in order to get a visa.

However, if you enter the country illegally then you are not required to be vaccinated.

Please explain how this policy makes any sense.
I've started a response to this post several times, but I keep getting tripped up on the idea that there is a set of screening rules for legal entry and a separate set of screening rules for illegal entry, as if people sneaking into the country went through designated checkpoints for health screenings before sneaking in.
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Old 20th June 2022, 07:33 AM   #40
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During the potato famine many Irish who emigrated to the U.S. showed up at our shores disease ridden, often a result of years of malnourishment. The circumstances encouraged, among the bigoted, a prejudicial view of the Irish as a race of disease carrying sub-humans.

I like to think that if I was around in 1840 or so I'd be helping, if even in a small way, to feed and heal the Irish who came here.

Legalities aside, I don't see how this situation is that much different.

Consider that the answer comes through vaccines, food, water, medicine and a caring attitude.

-------------
Dope Clock II: It's been 371 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth.
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