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Old 15th November 2022, 09:36 AM   #281
wareyin
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Yeah, it comes back to what we said before about what 'mixed company' is. A black guy can use it however he likes. A white guy still needs to read the room.
Yep, so theprestige's claim is something with which you also disagree.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
When I was younger, you could be somewhat formally given The Pass to use the term. I think now, The Pass can sometimes be assumed, as with Rosenbaum (who seems to have assumed correctly). Things change.
If you were ever given The Pass to use the term, it was by the person who gave you The Pass and only for use with that person. You certainly couldn't use the word willy nilly with any group you find yourself in (as d4m10n and theprestige are claiming) and then whip out an actual signed "allowed to use the n-word" pass that your neighbor/friend gave you.

And Rosenbaum using the word as a provocative insult (per your description) towards Rittenhouse is, yet again, evidence that it is not cool for white dudes to use in mixed company as a synonym for "dude".
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Old 15th November 2022, 10:12 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Yep, so theprestige's claim is something with which you also disagree.



If you were ever given The Pass to use the term, it was by the person who gave you The Pass and only for use with that person. You certainly couldn't use the word willy nilly with any group you find yourself in (as d4m10n and theprestige are claiming)
I don't think either of them are claiming it is carte blanche. they both say the conditions exist for a white guy to use it in mixed company sometimes, in contradiction to arth's implication that no such condition exists ever.

Quote:
and then whip out an actual signed "allowed to use the n-word" pass that your neighbor/friend gave you.
Actually, it worked that if you got The Pass, it was actually transferable in the presence other black guys of their acquaintance, even if The Pass Giver was not there ("hey man, Johnny gave me The Pass").

Quote:
And Rosenbaum using the word as a provocative insult (per your description) towards Rittenhouse is, yet again, evidence that it is not cool for white dudes to use in mixed company as a synonym for "dude".
Maybe I wasn't clear. I think Rosenbaum used it in the 'come at me, bro' sense, but Kyle would have taken it offensively, being more of a suburban white-bread little mama's boy who was out of his depth.

All in, words mean different things to different people. You and I prob grew up with the N-word meaning one thing to a white guy: it was a derisive way to show contempt for what a black person was born as. Just a hateful, ugly word, and a white guy would be a total douche to use it.

Kids today, though, hear it as a mixed use catch all, like M-Fer. That's what they are growing up with. It doesn't change anything for me. Still sounds ugly, because it was meant as an ugly term during my lifetime. But how I hear things is not how someone a generation younger has been hearing it used in their lifetimes.
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Old 15th November 2022, 10:26 AM   #283
wareyin
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I don't think either of them are claiming it is carte blanche. they both say the conditions exist for a white guy to use it in mixed company sometimes, in contradiction to arth's implication that no such condition exists ever.
Yeah, they both say conditions exist for a white guy to use it in mixed company. I disagree, and based on your "read the room" comment, you disagree as well. "You can use this term in mixed company with no offense taken" is quite literally carte blanche. If you have to be careful who you use the word around (read the room), then that's the opposite of "mixed company".

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Actually, it worked that if you got The Pass, it was actually transferable in the presence other black guys of their acquaintance, even if The Pass Giver was not there ("hey man, Johnny gave me The Pass").
Not in my experience. If Johnny wasn't physically there to agree he gave you The Pass, you were assumed to be without The Pass.



Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Maybe I wasn't clear. I think Rosenbaum used it in the 'come at me, bro' sense, but Kyle would have taken it offensively, being more of a suburban white-bread little mama's boy who was out of his depth.
"Come at me, bro" in the context of a physical altercation is literally a provocation. And a suburban white-bread little mama's boy would definitely take being called n-word offensively. I know it, you know it, and Rosenbaum knew it as well. For an example of a white dude using the n-word towards a black person even when he claims to have The Pass in contemporary times, look up the "Twisted Tea Smackdown".

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
All in, words mean different things to different people. You and I prob grew up with the N-word meaning one thing to a white guy: it was a derisive way to show contempt for what a black person was born as. Just a hateful, ugly word, and a white guy would be a total douche to use it.

Kids today, though, hear it as a mixed use catch all, like M-Fer. That's what they are growing up with. It doesn't change anything for me. Still sounds ugly, because it was meant as an ugly term during my lifetime. But how I hear things is not how someone a generation younger has been hearing it used in their lifetimes.
I grew up with (and worked with as an adult) white people who used the word derisively, certainly. 'You're asking me to sweep the floor?!?! That's n-word work!' 'You want me to do job x?!?! What am I, an n-word?'
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Old 15th November 2022, 11:42 AM   #284
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
You certainly couldn't use the word willy nilly with any group you find yourself in (as d4m10n and theprestige are claiming)
Not what I'm claiming, though.
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Old 15th November 2022, 11:53 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Not what I'm claiming, though.
I see. You're going with some unique to yourself definition of "in mixed company" "with no offense taken", then?
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Old 15th November 2022, 12:11 PM   #286
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
I see. You're going with some unique to yourself definition of "in mixed company" "with no offense taken", then?
Not that, either.
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Old 15th November 2022, 12:16 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Not that, either.
You're contradicting yourself.
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Old 15th November 2022, 12:43 PM   #288
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I want to complain about the renaming of traditional street names like ********* lane.
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Old 15th November 2022, 12:45 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
You're contradicting yourself.
Not at all. You've conjured up a false dichotomy.
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Old 15th November 2022, 01:01 PM   #290
wareyin
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Not at all. You've conjured up a false dichotomy.
Nonsense. You're claiming to be using the common definition of "in mixed company" and yet denying that definition applies to your claim about usage of the n-word.
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Old 15th November 2022, 01:43 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Nonsense. You're claiming to be using the common definition of "in mixed company" and yet denying that definition applies to your claim about usage of the n-word.
Thermal was able to figure out a third option. I'm confident others will be, too. I'll let the readers decide if they share your confusion or not.
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Old 15th November 2022, 02:22 PM   #292
wareyin
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Thermal was able to figure out a third option. I'm confident others will be, too. I'll let the readers decide if they share your confusion or not.
Thermal's "third option" specifically contradicted the "in mixed company" part of your claim with the "read the room" bit.
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Old 15th November 2022, 02:39 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Thermal's "third option" specifically contradicted the "in mixed company" part of your claim with the "read the room" bit.
Nope, that's just you being confused.
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Old 16th November 2022, 06:39 AM   #294
wareyin
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Nope, that's just you being confused.
As witty as you apparently think you're being, if you are ok to be doing something in mixed company you don't have to worry about reading the room. It's what those phrases mean. Which is why I asked if you were using some unique to yourself definition of mixed company. You say you aren't, which is where we find you contradicting yourself.

But, as fun as you vaguely waving your hands because you've been caught out again and don't have an actual explanation is, I hope that anyone considering taking your advice that the n-word can be acceptable in mixed company in the US can recognize how bad that advice is. Speaking as a life-long USAian, not as someone who has variously claimed to be Brazilian, from Hong Kong, or (the latest I've seen) from Portland, that is.
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Old 16th November 2022, 09:08 AM   #295
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
I want to complain about the renaming of traditional street names like ********* lane.
Does it rhyme with rope runt?
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Old 16th November 2022, 09:14 AM   #296
theprestige
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
As witty as you apparently think you're being, if you are ok to be doing something in mixed company you don't have to worry about reading the room. It's what those phrases mean. Which is why I asked if you were using some unique to yourself definition of mixed company. You say you aren't, which is where we find you contradicting yourself.

But, as fun as you vaguely waving your hands because you've been caught out again and don't have an actual explanation is, I hope that anyone considering taking your advice that the n-word can be acceptable in mixed company in the US can recognize how bad that advice is. Speaking as a life-long USAian, not as someone who has variously claimed to be Brazilian, from Hong Kong, or (the latest I've seen) from Portland, that is.
Nope. You think you've found a contradiction in my meaning, but I know what I meant so I know there's no contradiction. And other people figured it out, so I now it's not just my unique definition. I think your concern about my semantics is misplaced and irrelevant, which is why I haven't been catering to it. Sorry about that. Better luck next time, I guess.
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Old 16th November 2022, 09:40 AM   #297
wareyin
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Nope. You think you've found a contradiction in my meaning, but I know what I meant so I know there's no contradiction. And other people figured it out, so I now it's not just my unique definition. I think your concern about my semantics is misplaced and irrelevant, which is why I haven't been catering to it. Sorry about that. Better luck next time, I guess.
Vague, content free face saving attempt noted, and filed where appropriate.
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