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Old 30th September 2022, 09:19 AM   #1241
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Originally Posted by wobs View Post
I think the Lindybiege vid alluded to more than tourism though, if indeed he meant it at all. It was about putting the UK in the spotlight on the world stage, as acting as an advert for the country, so i guess, it could be good for UK business. But how do you measure such success?

This is in addition to the profits from the Crown Estate that exceeds what the Royals get.
One could agree with all of this, (I admit not being very acquainted with details of the net economics,) but still believe that the existence of any aristocracy is an affront to humanity and that any slight loss in one sector of a few natons’s economies would be more than offset by the elimination of the thought of a set of humans being superior in every way because of birth.
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Old 30th September 2022, 10:19 AM   #1242
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I am sure it'll ne nice if we all lived to 117 and passed away peacefully in our sleep of old age. The vast majority of us will die under medical care, whether in a hospital, a hospice or at home. My scientific bent would expect a perfectly objective, non-emotional, impartial, non-nosey, noncommital cause of death.

DR GLASS (for it is he): Nurse! Nurse! Come quickly! Ma'am appears to have stopped breathing.

NURSE: Are you sure? She was all right only the other day when she met Liz Truss - not much of a curtsey, I have to say - and I am sure I saw her moving ten minutes ago.

DR GLASS: Oh my goodness. Dearie, dearie, me! What on earth am I going to put on the death certificate...? It could be any of three or four things...apoplexy over Liz Truss, high blood pressure over her bickering brood...

NURSE; It's OK, there are three or four spaces where you can list several different reasons for death, together with underlying conditions...

DR GLASS: I have no idea what Ma'am passed from. Should I just put 'died peacefully as befitting a Queen of the realm...'? I know! Got it! I'll just put 'Old Age'.

NURSE: Aw, that sounds nice. Really sweet.
Ok this is getting rather weird. You just carry on with whatever is is you think you are discussing. I'm out.
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Old 30th September 2022, 01:00 PM   #1243
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Originally Posted by wobs View Post
Lindybiege has some interesting points (on a 40min vid).
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

I'm fairly ambivalent towards the royals, but I appreciate many here are anti-royal, so it would be interesting to hear what any here think of the points he makes.

These include, that over half the population of the world watched at least some of the funeral, meaning it was a fantastic advert for the country. People often say that France does fine with turism without a monarchy, with thousands ging to Versialles, but it doesn't seem to attract this kind of attention (see also Royal Weddings.

He also goes into skills built up by her, that a president wouldn't have.
Except that didn't happen (More Or Less on Radio 4 looked at it), rather there has been a lot of mis-quoting of a guesstimate someone made BEFORE the even as a count after. Many countries don't count TV figures, and even the UK's figures don't show half of us watching...
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Old 30th September 2022, 03:05 PM   #1244
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Our only site in the top 30 is at 24 - Versailles is at number 3...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._and_monuments

She was doing a crap job in terms of tourism.
Looking at that list, I'm surprised Mysore Place isn't higher up, I go there all the freakin time. But I digress.
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Old 1st October 2022, 05:03 AM   #1245
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Our only site in the top 30 is at 24 - Versailles is at number 3...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._and_monuments

She was doing a crap job in terms of tourism.
Obviously more public executions are needed. I'm sure Truss will be right on it.

Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
I'm guessing it wasn't within her job description so it's a bit harsh to criticise her for her lack of results.
And yet it has been claimed, in this thread, that the UK Monarchy was an economic benefit because of the tourism draw.
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Old 1st October 2022, 05:06 AM   #1246
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Originally Posted by wobs View Post
I think the Lindybiege vid alluded to more than tourism though, if indeed he meant it at all. It was about putting the UK in the spotlight on the world stage, as acting as an advert for the country, so i guess, it could be good for UK business. But how do you measure such success?
Truss is doing a far better job of "putting the UK in the spotlight on the world stage".

Originally Posted by wobs View Post
This is in addition to the profits from the Crown Estate that exceeds what the Royals get.
I'd like to see an independent audit for this claim; don't forget to factor in lost taxation revenue.
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Old 1st October 2022, 05:53 AM   #1247
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Truss is doing a far better job of "putting the UK in the spotlight on the world stage".


I'd like to see an independent audit for this claim; don't forget to factor in lost taxation revenue.
So would I, but my non-exhaustive search has not been productive. Most sites that claim to provide this info seem to be created to support one of the two points of view. Objective analysis is lacking.
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Old 1st October 2022, 09:42 AM   #1248
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
And yet it has been claimed, in this thread, that the UK Monarchy was an economic benefit because of the tourism draw.
What does this have to do with whether it was in her job description or not?
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Old 2nd October 2022, 03:50 AM   #1249
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Soz, I didn't have the patience to watch more than four minutes of your video although I am sure he is very interesting.

My take on the Queen's worth is twofold. One, it is my impression, which might be entirely misconceived, that having a constitutional monarchy has protected the UK from having a monster despot in charge, of the likes of Putin, Kim, Xi and the mad Mullahs (and dare I say it, Trump). Prime ministers with ambitions above their station soon have their bubble pricked. It's not a perfect system as the British class system does not allow for much social mobility. Secondly, on a more personal level.
What does having the head of the Lucky Sperm Club as head of state have to do with preventing despots? If your House of Commons selected one of Lizzie's dogs to be PM, she'd have invited it to form a government after it got done humping her leg.
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Old 2nd October 2022, 04:20 AM   #1250
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Our only site in the top 30 is at 24 - Versailles is at number 3...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._and_monuments

She was doing a crap job in terms of tourism.
In fairness, The Tower of London should be higher. The monuments in DC should all be counted as one being as they're so close together.
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Old 2nd October 2022, 07:26 AM   #1251
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
What does this have to do with whether it was in her job description or not?
Nothing. And as I never made that point you're strawmanning.
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Old 2nd October 2022, 07:27 AM   #1252
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
So would I, but my non-exhaustive search has not been productive. Most sites that claim to provide this info seem to be created to support one of the two points of view. Objective analysis is lacking.
Therefore the assertion should be rejected as unproven.
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Old 2nd October 2022, 08:51 AM   #1253
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Therefore the assertion should be rejected as unproven.
Agreed. Assertions that the royal family is a net financial benefit to the country, and assertions that the royal family is a net financial drain on the country should be equally rejected as unknown, until such time that an unbiased detailed financial analysis is available.
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Old 2nd October 2022, 11:49 AM   #1254
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Nothing. And as I never made that point you're strawmanning.
WTAF are you on? I never introduced the issue of encouraging tourism being a part of QEII's "job". Darat hinted at it and you've doubled down vaguely hinting that, because it's been mentioned herein, in must be.

What proposition have I misrepresented?

******* strawman my arse.
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Old 2nd October 2022, 12:08 PM   #1255
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Truss is doing a far better job of "putting the UK in the spotlight on the world stage".


I'd like to see an independent audit for this claim; don't forget to factor in lost taxation revenue.
The Crown Estate announces £269.3 million net revenue profit for 2020/21
- From the Crown Estate website. Down on teh previous year, which was:
"The Crown Estate announces £345.0 million net revenue profit for 2019/20"
https://www.thecrownestate.co.uk/en-...it-for-201920/

"The Crown Estate is an independent commercial business, created by an Act of Parliament, with a diverse portfolio of UK buildings, shoreline, seabed, forestry, agriculture and common land. The business generates valuable revenue for the government and over the last 10 years has contributed £2.6 billion to the Consolidated Fund.

The Crown Estate works with HM Treasury."
https://www.gov.uk/government/organi...e-crown-estate

Wiki suggests that 75% of the profits go to the Government, while the remaining 25% go to the Royal family.
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Old 2nd October 2022, 12:28 PM   #1256
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Originally Posted by wobs View Post
The Crown Estate announces £269.3 million net revenue profit for 2020/21
- From the Crown Estate website. Down on teh previous year, which was:
"The Crown Estate announces £345.0 million net revenue profit for 2019/20"
https://www.thecrownestate.co.uk/en-...it-for-201920/

"The Crown Estate is an independent commercial business, created by an Act of Parliament, with a diverse portfolio of UK buildings, shoreline, seabed, forestry, agriculture and common land. The business generates valuable revenue for the government and over the last 10 years has contributed £2.6 billion to the Consolidated Fund.

The Crown Estate works with HM Treasury."
https://www.gov.uk/government/organi...e-crown-estate

Wiki suggests that 75% of the profits go to the Government, while the remaining 25% go to the Royal family.
Well that is one side of it. Now we need something similar showing direct costs to the government for support to the royal family. Presumably this would involve such things as military costs for guards, parades etc., police costs for security, and many other things that I cannot think of but I am sure someone has.
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Old 3rd October 2022, 01:52 AM   #1257
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Well that is one side of it. Now we need something similar showing direct costs to the government for support to the royal family. Presumably this would involve such things as military costs for guards, parades etc., police costs for security, and many other things that I cannot think of but I am sure someone has.
Some good info here:
https://www.instituteforgovernment.o...royal-finances

Quote:
What other public costs are associated with the royal family?
The Sovereign Grant is the main source of taxpayer funding for the royal family, but there are other public costs associated with their activities that are not covered by the grant. These include:

Metropolitan police costs for events – with £3.5m spent on policing for the Duke and Duchess of Sussex’s wedding in 2018,[9] and £6.3m for the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge’s in 2011.[10] During the diamond jubilee celebrations, 6,000 officers and 21 police boats were on duty for the busiest days but no cost estimate has been published.[11]
General security costs for the royal family – covering senior royals at all times (including global travel) and junior royals for official engagements.[12] These costs are not discussed publicly by the royals or the police. Estimates range from several million to a hundred million pounds per year for the family.[13]
Military procession costs – such as the military parades, RAF flypasts, and navy ship processions which occurred for the diamond and platinum jubilees.[14]
Local government logistical costs – including costs for councils during royal visits and to the Greater London Authority during royal events. Costs to local councils have been reported to be between £9,000 (in 2004 prices)[15] and £58,000 (in 2007 prices) per visit.[16] The Greater London Authority budgeted £2m for screens, road closures, and signage for the 2012 diamond jubilee.[17]
However, none of the figures above are official cost estimates and the true cost is highly uncertain.
But there's more detail in the link.
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Old 3rd October 2022, 02:00 AM   #1258
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Originally Posted by wobs View Post
Some good info here:
https://www.instituteforgovernment.o...royal-finances



But there's more detail in the link.
Discounting the Diamond jubilee costs (I don't think it is likely another diamond jubilee will be had in the next 100 years, considering the ages of the king and the Prince of Wales). And even if it should occur, the country can save for 60 years for another jubilee.

Anyway. Those costs ignored, it all seems very low key in added costs. Certainly less than the published profits from above.
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Old 3rd October 2022, 04:47 AM   #1259
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Originally Posted by wobs View Post
Lindybiege has some interesting points (on a 40min vid).
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

I'm fairly ambivalent towards the royals, but I appreciate many here are anti-royal, so it would be interesting to hear what any here think of the points he makes.

These include, that over half the population of the world watched at least some of the funeral, meaning it was a fantastic advert for the country. People often say that France does fine with turism without a monarchy, with thousands ging to Versialles, but it doesn't seem to attract this kind of attention (see also Royal Weddings.

He also goes into skills built up by her, that a president wouldn't have.
One area where he is weak in his argument in favour of the Monarchy is that he cites the Queen as been really good at her job, and gives many examples. This is fine, but isn't an argument in favour of a Monarchy, especially when you can't really choose them, as its a birth right. So you could get a relaly poos Monarch, but they would still need to be worthwhile for a Monarchy to be worthwhile.

He does though make the claim that constiutional monarchies are better, and does try to support it (giving an example of Spain).

One of my issues with our monarchy is the significent we spend on the compared with other European countries. Looking at the figures I posted earlier, it doesn't look huge, given teh Crown Esate etc, generates money, but when I watched some of the funeral, I was struck by the shear quantity of ceremony we generally have relating to her/him.

Does it add value? Even if you or I don't care for it, do other people/contries take note, and are swayed by it in a positive way?
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Old 3rd October 2022, 04:59 AM   #1260
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Originally Posted by wobs View Post
One area where he is weak in his argument in favour of the Monarchy is that he cites the Queen as been really good at her job, and gives many examples. This is fine, but isn't an argument in favour of a Monarchy, especially when you can't really choose them, as its a birth right. So you could get a relaly poos Monarch, but they would still need to be worthwhile for a Monarchy to be worthwhile.

He does though make the claim that constiutional monarchies are better, and does try to support it (giving an example of Spain).

One of my issues with our monarchy is the significent we spend on the compared with other European countries. Looking at the figures I posted earlier, it doesn't look huge, given teh Crown Esate etc, generates money, but when I watched some of the funeral, I was struck by the shear quantity of ceremony we generally have relating to her/him.

Does it add value? Even if you or I don't care for it, do other people/contries take note, and are swayed by it in a positive way?
I say, if you put it against the four yearly costs the USA goes through for their president, it's rather cheap.
Of course the US president is anything but ceremonial, so maybe the German style of president is more equivalent?
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Old 3rd October 2022, 05:15 AM   #1261
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Originally Posted by erwinl View Post
I say, if you put it against the four yearly costs the USA goes through for their president, it's rather cheap.
Of course the US president is anything but ceremonial, so maybe the German style of president is more equivalent?
The US presidental election is similar to our general election.

We need to sit back and wait for the official figures on the queens death. Once we have considered the loss in production from the extra bank holiday, police and other costs and compared that to the extra tourism income from the whole event we can decide whether regicide should be an annual event.
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Old 3rd October 2022, 07:48 AM   #1262
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Originally Posted by wobs View Post
The Crown Estate announces £269.3 million net revenue profit for 2020/21
- From the Crown Estate website. Down on teh previous year, which was:
"The Crown Estate announces £345.0 million net revenue profit for 2019/20"
https://www.thecrownestate.co.uk/en-...it-for-201920/

"The Crown Estate is an independent commercial business, created by an Act of Parliament, with a diverse portfolio of UK buildings, shoreline, seabed, forestry, agriculture and common land. The business generates valuable revenue for the government and over the last 10 years has contributed £2.6 billion to the Consolidated Fund.

The Crown Estate works with HM Treasury."
https://www.gov.uk/government/organi...e-crown-estate

Wiki suggests that 75% of the profits go to the Government, while the remaining 25% go to the Royal family.
The Crown Estates is nothing but a convention these days - the deal was done to not embarrass the royal family too much, they are nothing but a UK government "estate" these days.
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Old 3rd October 2022, 07:52 AM   #1263
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Anyone wanting a warts and all look at what the Royals get up to I highly recommend this book: ... And What Do You Do?: What The Royal Family Don't Want You To Know – Norman Baker
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Old 3rd October 2022, 08:42 AM   #1264
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Anyone wanting a warts and all look at what the Royals get up to I highly recommend this book: ... And What Do You Do?: What The Royal Family Don't Want You To Know – Norman Baker



Seconded. I have it on my Kindle.
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Old 20th November 2022, 04:26 PM   #1265
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The Queen's staff, many of whom have been employed at Buck House all their lives, look set to be given the boot by HRH Dickhead.

Merry Christmas!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/r...ng-other-staff

In related news, I'd be advising William to start a list of what he's going to do as King, because I've never seen a sicker-looking bloke than Charles in the photo in that story. His face the look of a three bottles of scotch a day alkie, and his lips are dead-set purple. I don't see him getting near his parents' ages.
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