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Tags alec baldwin , gun incidents , shooting incidents

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Old 20th April 2022, 06:39 PM   #1521
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Rust producers fined maximum amount for safety lapses that led to gun death

Quote:
State officials deliver highest level of rebuke and say production demonstrated ‘plain indifference’ to employee protection


The state of New Mexico on Wednesday issued its maximum citation against the producers of the western movie Rust for safety lapses before what the authorities called the “avoidable” shooting death of the cinematographer Halyna Hutchins during filming last autumn.

An investigation into Hutchins’ death found the company, Rust Movie Productions, knew firearm safety procedures were not being followed on set and demonstrated “plain indifference” to employee safety, the New Mexico environment department said in a statement.

New Mexico’s Occupational Health and Safety Bureau said Rust Movie Productions must pay $139,793, and distributed a scathing narrative of safety failures in violation of standard industry protocols, including testimony that production managers took limited or no action to address two misfires on set before the fatal shooting.

The bureau also documented gun safety complaints from crew members that went unheeded and said weapons specialists were not allowed to make decisions about additional safety training.

“What we had, based on our investigators’ findings, was a set of obvious hazards to employees regarding the use of firearms and management’s failure to act upon those obvious hazards,” Bob Genoway, bureau chief for occupational safety, told the Associated Press.
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Old 20th April 2022, 09:34 PM   #1522
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Quote:
New Mexico’s Occupational Health and Safety Bureau said Rust Movie Productions must pay $139,793,

I wonder how they calculated it to the last dollar. Even if they totaled fines for multiple violations, did one cost $3 or $93?
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Old 21st April 2022, 03:44 PM   #1523
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I wonder how they calculated it to the last dollar. Even if they totaled fines for multiple violations, did one cost $3 or $93?

Tax!



So who's going to jail?
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Old 21st April 2022, 06:14 PM   #1524
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I wonder how they calculated it to the last dollar. Even if they totaled fines for multiple violations, did one cost $3 or $93?
There are several different ways of adding up to that number that don't involve starting with a multiple of 10.
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Old 22nd April 2022, 06:12 AM   #1525
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I think fines in some states are based on company revenue. Can't this be the case ?
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Old 23rd April 2022, 07:38 AM   #1526
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Has it ever been clarified whether the two previous "misfires" were actually unintentional discharges of firearms? Either of blanks or live rounds?

To me a firearm "misfire" means a failure of a weapon to fire when it's intended to fire. Which would be a significant concern if the weapon were being used e.g. in self-defense or military action, but not so much on a movie set (fix the problem and do another take). So I'm wondering if those previous Rust "misfires" were actually something else.


ETA: Other news reports refer to two previous "accidental firings" which is a bit clearer. I guess "misfire" is now one of those "no it's not being misused, its meaning is changing as living language evolves" words.
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Old 23rd April 2022, 12:02 PM   #1527
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
ETA: Other news reports refer to two previous "accidental firings" which is a bit clearer. I guess "misfire" is now one of those "no it's not being misused, its meaning is changing as living language evolves" words.
IMHO it's just non gun people using terms they heard somewhere.
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Old 26th April 2022, 01:17 PM   #1528
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Newly released video of Baldwin rehearsing the draw that resulted in the death of the cinematographer.

https://news.yahoo.com/rust-video-sh...142355673.html
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Old 26th April 2022, 01:42 PM   #1529
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Newly released video of Baldwin rehearsing the draw that resulted in the death of the cinematographer.

https://news.yahoo.com/rust-video-sh...142355673.html
More vague terms.

"Rehearsing" to me is either completely off set or a few final run throughs off to one side as the crew tightens the set.

In place rehearsal for audio and cameras to get focus marks, sound levels, etc is "blocking."

"Blocking" while rolling is a "camera test."

This looks to me like a camera test.

Where was the ballistic shield?

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Old 27th April 2022, 08:02 AM   #1530
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
More vague terms.

"Rehearsing" to me is either completely off set or a few final run throughs off to one side as the crew tightens the set.

In place rehearsal for audio and cameras to get focus marks, sound levels, etc is "blocking."

"Blocking" while rolling is a "camera test."

This looks to me like a camera test.

Where was the ballistic shield?
"we don't need no stinking ballis..."

Oh, wait.
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Old 27th April 2022, 05:36 PM   #1531
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More emerging from the investigation dump.

Armorer's conversation, assistant's email raise questions as 'Rust' case files released
They put the new stuff up front, thank goodness.

Quote:
Three months before a fatal shooting on the*Rust*movie set at Bonanza Creek Ranch south of Santa Fe, armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed asked the owner of a film prop weapons company whether she could shoot “hot rounds” on a different movie set.

Seth Kenney, the owner of Albuquerque-based PDQ Arm and Prop, asked Gutierrez-Reed what she meant by a hot round.

“Like a pretty big load of actual ammunition,” she replied in the text message exchange.

Despite Kenney’s warning to Gutierrez-Reed never to shoot live ammunition out of prop guns — calling it a “serious mistake” that “always ends in tears” — Gutierrez-Reed brushed him off, telling him it was good information to know, but “I’m still gonna shoot mine.”
Clearly seems like she was taking the responsibility seriously.
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Old 27th April 2022, 08:06 PM   #1532
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
More emerging from the investigation dump.

Armorer's conversation, assistant's email raise questions as 'Rust' case files released
They put the new stuff up front, thank goodness.


Clearly seems like she was taking the responsibility seriously.
Whose idea was it to hire this idiot as the armorer?
Safety is most important job an armorer on a film does.
Hopefully at a minimum, she will never work on a film again.
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Old 29th April 2022, 09:53 AM   #1533
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
More emerging from the investigation dump.

Armorer's conversation, assistant's email raise questions as 'Rust' case files released
They put the new stuff up front, thank goodness.


Clearly seems like she was taking the responsibility seriously.
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Old 29th April 2022, 09:57 AM   #1534
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Today I'm briefly amused by the use of "prop gun" in the thread title. Turns out it was actually a fully functional and loaded firearm.
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Old 29th April 2022, 10:01 AM   #1535
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Today I'm briefly amused by the use of "prop gun" in the thread title. Turns out it was actually a fully functional and loaded firearm.
IMHO prop simply means it's used in a movie .. not that it's fake.
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Old 29th April 2022, 10:22 AM   #1536
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
IMHO prop simply means it's used in a movie .. not that it's fake.
And that's why I was only briefly amused. I could hear the "ackshully" approaching even as I typed
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Old 30th April 2022, 10:54 AM   #1537
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Today I'm briefly amused by the use of "prop gun" in the thread title. Turns out it was actually a fully functional and loaded firearm.
My fault I suppose, and the mod who renamed the thread at the merge... I used it in the original title.
And I'm still a tad pissed, thought I gave it a nicely dramatic flair.


Eta: since someone will ask, as I recall it was "Alec Baldwin just killed his DP on set with a prop gun."
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Old 18th November 2022, 03:30 PM   #1538
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https://deadline.com/2022/11/alec-ba...nt-1235176170/

The official report has been released (or leaked?). Pretty damning stuff in it:


Reese Price, a key grip who was eight feet behind Hutchins and wounded director Joel Souza in the church (the filmmaker receiving a shoulder blow from the discharged prop gun) said that the prior issues on the production entailed an “accidental discharge” occurring “twice last week all in one day. One of the accidental discharges occurred by ‘armorer girl’ who was messing with a gun. The ‘armorer girl’ had the gun pointed down, when it went off accidentally. The second time, one of the stunt actors went to cock the gun and it went off accidentally inside a shack. Reese expressed his concern about accidental discharges occurring on this particular set, which is something that is not supposed to happen” read the police report.
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Old 18th November 2022, 03:42 PM   #1539
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If there's one person on a production who should be trusted not to have a negligent discharge, it's the ******* armorer.
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Old 18th November 2022, 03:56 PM   #1540
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
https://deadline.com/2022/11/alec-ba...nt-1235176170/

The official report has been released (or leaked?). Pretty damning stuff in it:
.....
What still hasn't been explained, at least publicly, is why there were live rounds anywhere on the set, let alone intermingled with blanks and dummies. If they can identify someone who brought them in, he's toast.
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Old 18th November 2022, 05:20 PM   #1541
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
What still hasn't been explained, at least publicly, is why there were live rounds anywhere on the set, let alone intermingled with blanks and dummies. If they can identify someone who brought them in, he's toast.
I'd presume whoever checked out the guns for the plinking session, and whoever supplied that live ammo would be the same person (asst armorer?). But it could be two.

I'm feeling more sympathy for Alec as actor, handed a hot (and live load) weapon.
And absolutely zero for him as production staff on such a weapons clusterflop.
How to jibe the two?
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Old 18th November 2022, 05:28 PM   #1542
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A producer who steps in front of the camera is still a producer.

And regarding live ammo in the armory, that would be on the armorer, regardless of which production jackass actually brought it in.
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Old 18th November 2022, 05:58 PM   #1543
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Last week (?) I saw a still from earlier in the production of a young boy (tween?) held at gunpoint, with one of these single actions at the back of his head.
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Old 18th November 2022, 06:36 PM   #1544
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
What still hasn't been explained, at least publicly, is why there were live rounds anywhere on the set, let alone intermingled with blanks and dummies. If they can identify someone who brought them in, he's toast.
The finger-pointing is leading towards what was always the most likely explanation - that whoever was supposed to manufacture the dummy rounds, messed up and mixed in some live rounds. Unlike blanks, dummy rounds are typically made from live rounds so there exists a workshop environment where both live and dummy rounds are handled and could be mixed up.
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Old 18th November 2022, 06:45 PM   #1545
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Originally Posted by Shrinker View Post
The finger-pointing is leading towards what was always the most likely explanation - that whoever was supposed to manufacture the dummy rounds, messed up and mixed in some live rounds. Unlike blanks, dummy rounds are typically made from live rounds so there exists a workshop environment where both live and dummy rounds are handled and could be mixed up.
Really?

The finger pointing I've seen is that the cast and crew liked to go plinking with production props, and the armorer was negligent in her duties.

If this were a flaw in the manufacturing process, you'd expect others customers to be getting bad batches with similar tragic results. But we haven't heard about anything like that.
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Old 18th November 2022, 06:59 PM   #1546
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Yes, I saw the plinking story too, on Day 1 I believe, but also some vigorous denials it ever happened. I don’t think any proof or solid witnesses surfaced.

The manufacturer in question I think is a sole trader, not an organisation. Or at the very least a very small company. The armourer is suing him for suppling live rounds. But I haven’t seen any evidence there were any other live rounds discovered. It doesn’t follow that there must be other bad batches.

Regardless of who the armourer is suing, she should have checked every single round. Usually this is done by shaking them to check they rattle. I saw the Deadline article suggest she was rushing and shaking them in pairs, which would be a very silly mistake to make.

Edit: Alex Baldwin is also suing the ammo supplier Seth Kenny for delivering live ammo in place of dummies. He’s suing the armourer for not checking it. I don’t think his lawsuit raises the plinking allegations.

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Old 18th November 2022, 10:40 PM   #1547
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Originally Posted by Shrinker View Post
The finger-pointing is leading towards what was always the most likely explanation - that whoever was supposed to manufacture the dummy rounds, messed up and mixed in some live rounds. Unlike blanks, dummy rounds are typically made from live rounds so there exists a workshop environment where both live and dummy rounds are handled and could be mixed up.
Why would you think that? What you describe would require starting with live ammunition, removing the bullet, emptying out the powder and replacing the bullet, all the while risking a misfire. Why would that make sense? Cartridge cases, bullets and primers are available in bulk for reloaders. It would be safer, cheaper and more practical to assemble them from scratch into blanks, and I can't imagine anybody does it any other way.

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Old 19th November 2022, 02:20 AM   #1548
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Why would you think that? What you describe would require starting with live ammunition, removing the bullet, emptying out the powder and replacing the bullet, all the while risking a misfire. Why would that make sense? Cartridge cases, bullets and primers are available in bulk for reloaders. It would be safer, cheaper and more practical to assemble them from scratch into blanks, and I can't imagine anybody does it any other way.
What you’re saying make sense, but it’s what I’d picked up from several articles or comments on the subject. Wikipedia says the following for example…

Quote:
A snap cap is a firearm accessory device shaped like a standard cartridge/shotshell but contains no functional components, namely the primer, propellant (gunpowder) and projectile (bullet or slug). It serves the same purpose as a dummy round, but different in that a dummy is usually modified from a real cartridge with its propellant and primer removed (but still has the projectile crimped to the casing), while a snap cap has a monolithic outer shell and is specifically designed to be a fake cartridge from the very beginning.
But, I’ll withdraw the claim, because I found this article that I’d previously missed, where the ammo supplier implies the dummies should have been assembled inert from the beginning as you say, but that someone had been passing around reloaded rounds from the same brand of dummies.

https://variety.com/2021/film/news/r...n-1235122384/#!
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Old 19th November 2022, 02:37 AM   #1549
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I just remember where I initially got it from. It’s from the Brandon Lee fatal shooting., which obviously was a hot topic when this incident was first reported. From Wikipedia…

Quote:
In the film shoot preceding the fatal scene, the gun that was used as a prop (a real revolver) was loaded with improperly made dummy rounds, improvised from live cartridges that had the powder charges removed by the special effects crew, so in close-ups the revolver would show normal-looking ammunition. However, the crew neglected to remove the primers from the cartridges, and at some point before the fatal event, one of the rounds had been fired. Although there were no powder charges, the energy from the ignited primer was enough to separate the bullet from the casing and push it part-way into the gun barrel, where it got stuck—a dangerous condition known as a squib load.
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Old 20th November 2022, 10:10 PM   #1550
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It's worth saying again that there's no such thing as an accidental discharge, only a negligent one.
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Old 21st November 2022, 01:36 AM   #1551
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
It's worth saying again that there's no such thing as an accidental discharge, only a negligent one.
The question is then where the negligence resides.
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Old 21st November 2022, 08:32 AM   #1552
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Why would you think that? What you describe would require starting with live ammunition, removing the bullet, emptying out the powder and replacing the bullet, all the while risking a misfire. Why would that make sense? Cartridge cases, bullets and primers are available in bulk for reloaders. It would be safer, cheaper and more practical to assemble them from scratch into blanks, and I can't imagine anybody does it any other way.
I used to keep dummies around for dry fire practice. You buy live ammo, shoot it. Then you hand load the spent cartridge with a new bullet. But no powder or primer. Then you ******* quadruple check that its a dead primer and a new one wasn't seated somehow. And even then the gun was never pointed anywhere near another person. So IMO that process still shouldn't be used in the acting profession.

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